The headlines about the church in America often focus on decline—but that’s not the whole story. The numbers have steadied from the post-COVID freefall, and in many places, congregations are seeing attendance and engagement rebound. But here’s the real question: Are we satisfied that the decline has slowed, or are we ready to measure how much we’re actually gaining?

In this episode, Ken and Kris unpack the latest national and denominational data on church attendance, evangelism, and spiritual openness. They explain why the problem isn’t that “the church isn’t working,” but that most churches are running on a single, attractional gear—while Jesus modeled a balanced missional ecosystem that includes corporate gatherings, mid-sized communities, micro-disciple-making ecosystems (XGroups), and everyday missionary living.

You’ll hear:

• The most recent national statistics on attendance, growth, and evangelism
• Why spiritual openness is rising even as personal evangelism conviction has dropped.
• How small group and micro-ecosystem engagement can turn stability into multiplication.
• Practical steps for reorienting your church to the Jesus paradigm of mission.

This conversation will challenge your metrics, encourage your heart, and help you imagine what’s possible when the church moves beyond measuring “less loss” to pursuing missional success.