Today on The Conversation, Adam talks with author & therapist, KJ Ramsey, about the ugly side of our experience with church— church trauma & spiritual abuse. KJ shares so much wisdom about what church trauma and spiritual abuse look like, how to recognize it in yourself or someone else, & what to do if you've experienced church trauma. They also discuss what pastors, bosses, and leaders can do to understand how people you lead experience your presence, and for pastors and leaders to process your own (church) trauma as well. This is a painful topic for so many. Wherever you are today, this episode will equip you with the tools to start to get curious, to name what you've experienced and acknowledge it to yourself, to share with a friend, or to share with a counselor. Get a copy of KJ's new book, The Lord Is My Courage, here: amzn.to/3b3aPQg