Coffee & Change

The Malady that Befalls Us All: GRIEF.

It comes in many forms. The absence we get to have a new conversation with when we get still and simply admire the sunsets and serenades.

This is the first of the final 10 episodes of this podcast as it rounds its final laps into the winner's circle and rides into the sunset, as the tide recedes. And as I stand still enough to take in the gifts in the 10 years of tide pools.

Thank you all for listening. May we feel every emotion in our time together. Yours in COMMUNITAS. - Bill

Andre Thornton is a mechanical engineer who spent eighteen years at Lockheed Martin building airplanes, then selling them, then leading as an executive. He went to college on a football scholarship. In 2016 he founded Whitman Consulting (Whitman is his middle name), where he and his team teach purpose-driven leadership. He is the author of Disrupted.

I came into this conversation fresh off a philanthropy conference in Charleston, where the word everyone kept circling back to was disruption. Andre had written a book on it, and he describes himself as an engineer who likes to control everything and has learned he can control nothing.

His path to the book ran through two job losses. Two years before he left Lockheed, his role was one of forty-four director positions being consolidated to nineteen, and he didn’t get one. He moved into leadership development, and then the company sold that division. Two weeks before his last day, his son Carter was born. He started his company anyway. He set out to write a book about purpose and found, once he sat down to write it, that every moment of clarity about purpose had arrived through a disruption. So he renamed it.

We started with turbulence. I confessed to the years I spent booking United flights with the in-seat channel that let you listen to the cockpit, and how hearing pilots coordinate with each other and with ground control steadied me. Andre, who has stood next to the engineers who design these aircraft, admitted he still feels the same unease in the air. From there we talked about where control ends and collaboration begins.

Bounce back and bounce forward. Andre separates three responses to disruption: staying down, bouncing back to where you were, and bouncing forward. He is clear that growth after a hard moment is a choice, and he has watched people who never recovered.

The elephant and the rope. Andre uses a circus fable about a grown elephant held by a small rope, because it was tied that way as a calf and stopped testing it. He sees our identities and habits wired the same way, and capable of being broken.

The jump. Andre told the story of a college play against Terrell Owens, where he jumped and kept the ball out of Owens’s hands. His point was that you jump before you feel ready, and that the preparation and movement before the jump matter as much as the jump. His advice to anyone who feels stuck is to start moving in any direction and let the direction reveal itself.

The 1440. Andre built a system around the 1,440 minutes in a day. He names five areas of life (spirituality, career, relationships, health, finances), writes a vision for each, sets yearly goals connected to them, and fills those goals with daily habits. One early effect: he found activities that fit none of his areas and stopped doing them.

Self-dosing. Drawing on Meet Your Happy Chemicals, Andre walks through DOSE: dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins. His view is that we can design our days to produce these on purpose, through anticipation, connection, gratitude, and movement, instead of waiting for life to supply them. He used my countdown to Garth Brooks tickets as a live example.

The Commute. Andre shares short audio messages on LinkedIn sized for the drive to work or the walk to your desk, built on the idea that a few well-chosen words can change how someone feels heading into the next thing.

Kristie K. Jones works with founders, owners, and sales leaders to build sales playbooks, hire sellers, and scale beyond founder-led selling. She came to B2B software after eight years as a retail buyer for a major department store, took over her first sales team four months later, and has since led teams through the move from on-premise software to the cloud. She is the author of Selling Your Way In: The Playbook for Setting Your Income and Owning Your Life. Her second book, The Sales Leadership Gap: Leading Humans in an AI-Augmented World, releases in late October 2026.

Kristie returns to the show two years after her first appearance. She starts with what happened to her first book after it left her hands. She wrote it for individual sellers and hoped it would land in university sales programs. Professors showed little interest, and readers found it anyway, often writing to tell her they had realized they were in the wrong sales role.

Her second book began at a crossroads. In June of last year, with business slowing and clients in what she calls freeze mode, she attended six conferences and sat in on every session. Nearly every conversation was about tools. What she did not hear was any discussion of how leadership changes when a sales leader is no longer managing a team of people but a system that includes agents, automations, and humans together. She and Bill talk through what that shift asks of leaders, what she is hearing from senior sellers in interviews, a story from her son about being told to use Copilot, and why the next sales playbook will be written by small groups of practitioners rather than handed down.

Connect with Kristie

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kristiekjones/

• Website: kristiekjones.com

• The Sales Leadership Gap: available from major book retailers in late October 2026

Shari Foos is the founder of The Narrative Method, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that connects people to themselves and each other through creative writing. She is a marriage and family therapist and spent many years as a writer and performer before that. The program began in 2012 as an in-person practice. It now runs mostly as free online writing salons where people write to prompts, read aloud in small groups, and receive no feedback or criticism. Her book, The Narrative Method: A Writing Practice for Not Hating Yourself and Discovering Who You Really Are, comes out from HarperCollins on April 6 and is available for pre-order.

Episode Summary

Bill and Shari begin with a shared question: who gets to call themselves creative? Bill describes the days in 2020 when he couldn't accept the word. Shari describes creative expression as a right, and the doubt most of us carry about it as something learned. She calls the source "the cult of culture," her term for the steady message from media, advertising, and politics that we aren't enough.

From there the conversation moves through the ideas in her book. Shari walks through "Lantern in the Cave," which draws on Plato's allegory, and explains how writing to a prompt can produce small moments of recognition. Bill brings in the Odyssey and a recent interview he heard with Miley Cyrus, which leads to a discussion of why vulnerability draws people in more than success does. They talk about the difference between being known and being famous, and about community as a practical response to isolation.

Shari talks about what parents can pass on when they weren't given permission to dream themselves.

Topics Discussed

- Why creative expression can be treated as a right, and how self-doubt gets learned

- The "cult of culture" and the habit of comparing and judging ourselves

- Being known versus being famous, and what intimacy and legacy have to do with it

- Vulnerability in public life, illustrated by Bill's account of the Miley Cyrus interview with Zane Lowe

- Community and human contact in everyday transactions

- "Lantern in the Cave": Plato's allegory, the shadow we see when we turn around, and aha moments

- Letting yourself imagine the ideal, and tolerating disappointment when reality falls short

- Awe, and the way facing painful feelings can open into connection

- Parents, protection, and dreams handed down across generations

- How a salon works: prompts, breakout rooms, witnessing, and no feedback

- Working with veterans, and the difference between being thanked and being listened to

- Ideas Worth Sitting With

- Shari's view is that feedback of any kind, including praise, interrupts a person's first experience of their own voice.

- She argues that people can tolerate disappointment better than they can tolerate a world with no possibilities.

- She says that listening to someone read is a way of making them feel more whole, and that the listener benefits too.

- Her position on imperfect writing is that misspellings and rough language are part of what makes a piece relatable.

Salons are free. Sign up at thenarrativemethod.org under Events, then Salons. Each salon has its own link. There is no commitment to attend again.

Connect

Website: thenarrativemethod.org

Salons: thenarrativemethod.org/salons

Book: The Narrative Method, HarperCollins, April 6 (pre-order link: [add])

Email: [email protected]

Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube: @thenarrativemethod

This is a book launch-week conversation. David Pearlman joins to mark the release of his first book, Lead by Design: The Human Side of Leadership in an Age of Change. Rather than a standard author interview, Bill and David walk through how the book actually came together over two years — the writing process, the developmental editing partnership between two people who'd never met in person, but walked the same paths, and the personal story at the book's center. They close with reflections on what happens after a book ships: reader reactions, speaking invitations, and what David calls "the riches" that follow publishing something honest.

David Pearlman spent roughly 23-24 years across Great Plains Softward and Microsoft, moving through about sixteen roles — people strategy, product, and large-scale fielding — with his last 18 years focused on the public sector: healthcare, K-12, and higher education. Along the way he served as chief of staff and spent time in the Army, active duty and reserves. He's currently at Adobe, working at the intersection of education, healthcare, and AI. Lead by Design is his first book.

Visit: www.thedavidpearlman.com to order his book.

Travis Hahler is Senior Director of Global Strategy & Transformation at Salesforce, where he leads teams through large-scale organizational change. Alongside his corporate work, Travis is a keynote speaker and the author of Rethink Resistance: Embracing Neuroscience to Lead Transformational Change, published by Fast Company Press.

Travis joins to unpack what happens neurologically when people encounter change — and why most leaders are misreading the signals. Drawing on his book Rethink Resistance, Travis makes the case that resistance isn't a problem to overcome. It's data. The conversation moves from the science of six neurological barriers to change, to the surprisingly practical value of body language, to an unexpected live tarot card reading that turns out to be a fitting metaphor for the whole conversation: if you know what to look for, you can see what's coming.

Travis also addresses the AI transformation moment head-on — arguing that how companies are currently introducing AI mirrors one of the most primal threat responses in the human brain, and that leaders who don't understand that are setting their organizations up to fail.

Bonus: Resistance Tarot Card Giveaway

During the episode, Travis revealed that he's creating a physical deck of Resistance Tarot Cards — a tangible extension of the frameworks in his book. If you purchase Rethink Resistance and send Travis proof of purchase, you'll be entered into a drawing to receive a packet of the cards. This was unplanned, unscripted, and announced here first.

To enter: buy the book, then reach out to Travis directly via his website or LinkedIn with your purchase confirmation.

Links & Resources

Book — Rethink Resistance: linktr.ee/theneurologicalnomad

Travis's Website: travishahler.com

Book Page: travishahler.com/book

Podcast Snippets: travishahler.com/podcast

LinkedIn — The Neurological Nomad: linkedin.com/company/the-neurological-nomad

In this episode, Father and Son Jeff and Brad share a deeply personal conversation about family, authenticity, and the uncharted paths that shape us. They explore themes of love, integrity, vulnerability, and purpose across generations, illustrating how moments of stillness and authenticity define our true journey.

Key Topics:

The significance of intergenerational connection and storytelling

How authenticity and integrity shape leadership and creativity

The transformative power of love stories and life's uncharted moments

The role of vulnerability and intimacy in building human connection

Lessons from water’s stillness teaching patience and listening

The importance of purposeful work and the journey over results

Building resilience through discipline and emotional awareness

How embracing vulnerability enhances leadership and personal growth

The profound impact of family, love, and shared stories on legacy

Resources & Links:

Connect with Brad Ton:

Brad Ton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradton/

Jeff's latest book "Uncharted Moments" available on Amazon

Connect with Jeffrey S. Ton:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtonindy/

Website: jeffreyston.com

Todd LeMieux is an artist, art director and graphic designer based in Springfield, MA, with a career spanning multiple decades across agencies, corporate environments, higher education, and independent practice. He specializes in logos and branding, with deep experience in music industry work — including album reissues for major labels and a logo for a Warner Music digital imprint that was cast in metal and embedded in the floor of their Midtown Manhattan offices. He has taught graphic design at the college level, been published in books and magazines, and received industry recognition for his work.

Portfolio: Todd LeMieux on Behance

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/toddmlemieux

I met Todd at a celebration of life — a fitting origin point for a conversation about work that endures. Todd reflects on a career that began in traditional agency environments and evolved through every major wave of technological change in the design field. His perspective is grounded: he loves the work, has watched tools come and go, and holds a clear-eyed view of where human skill still matters.

The episode closes on the question of where human designers will continue to thrive. Todd's answer: the humanity is already in the question.

What if the resume — that document we've built our entire hiring process around — is the wrong place to start? Jason P. Carroll makes a compelling case that it is. Drawing on research from the 1980s and 90s, he points out that prior skills, experience, and formal education have almost zero predictive value for success in a new role. Add AI-generated resumes to that picture, and the traditional hiring process starts to look like a relic.

Jason's company, Aptive Index, approaches the problem differently. Rather than measuring what someone has done, it measures what drives them — motivators, emotional resonance, internal activation, cognitive style. The platform pairs that psychometric data with Aria, a behavioral AI that knows your team's profiles and can guide everything from hiring decisions to conflict resolution to job description writing.

The conversation takes some unexpected turns. Jason shares stories of clients using Aria as a personal growth tool — including two CEOs who credited it with saving their marriages. He talks about a CEO forum where Aria identified, in real time, that one member felt like an outsider in the group — and was right. And he opens up about a B2C mental health companion product he's developing but hasn't launched yet, and why he's looking for the right co-founder to help bring it to life.

Running through all of it is a theme that fits squarely in the Coffee and Change ethos: self-awareness as the foundation for change — in how we hire, how we lead, how we relate to the people around us, and ultimately how we understand ourselves.

Curious what Aptive Index would reveal about you? Jason has set up a dedicated link for Coffee and Change listeners to take the assessment and get a preview of Aria:

https://assessment.aptiveindex.com/s/sH5bgSZVQVy0

The assessment takes about ten minutes. At the end, you'll get a preview of Aria and the chance to ask her a few questions based on your results.

Connect with Jason

Aptive Index: aptiveindex.com

B2C / Mental Health Companion (coming soon): aria.com — Jason is actively looking for a co-founder with B2C experience. If that's you, reach out.

Celebrating the Power of Inner Knowing and Witnessing: A Commencement Reflection

In this episode, Bill Kirst shares a deeply personal story stemming from his own journey of trusting inner knowing, the significance of witnessing others’ moments of achievement, and the profound impact these experiences have on our lives. If you've ever hesitated to step into your purpose or doubted your ability to influence others positively, this episode offers clarity and inspiration.

In this episode:

Bill’s reflective story from his time as a student and how a gut instinct shaped his future

The importance of trusting inner guidance even when it defies logic or societal expectations

How the act of witnessing others’ joys and struggles can transform our own perspective

The significance of showing up with heart, especially in moments of celebration and transition

Lessons on leadership and presence during meaningful stages like commencements

The call to listen to your inner whisper, no matter how small or unconventional it seems

Why sharing your story can be a gift to others, fostering connection and change

The legacy of honoring memories and passing the torch of purpose

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction: Reflecting during graduation season

00:05 - A personal story: trusting my inner knowing at Johns Hopkins University

01:08 - Childhood memory of making a bold decision based on intuition

02:09 - The emotional power of trusting your internal guide

03:27 - The impact of witnessing a significant event through graduation

04:24 - Being tapped to represent alumni and what it felt like

05:09 - Preparing with heart versus perfection for a commencement speech

06:13 - The importance of leading with authenticity and compassion

07:19 - Walking through graduation; reliving a 26-year-old memory

08:17 - The experience of being on stage and the significance of presence

09:02 - The emotion of graduation: pride, tears, and shared achievement

09:49 - Wondering about peers and their journeys since graduation

10:10 - Connecting beyond the stage—shared human experience

11:03 - Witnessing tears, pride, and bittersweet emotions

12:26 - Reflecting on the journey from a student to a speaker

13:25 - The emotional power of honoring dreams and memories

14:25 - Encouragement: Seize opportunities to speak and inspire

14:32 - Celebrating the class of 2026 and embracing inner whispers