Josh Cirre joins us to discuss his transition from the JavaScript ecosystem to Laravel, revealing why PHP frameworks can offer a compelling alternative for full-stack development. We explore the "identity crisis" many frontend developers face when needing robust backend solutions, how Laravel's batteries-included approach compares to piecing together JavaScript services, and the trade-offs between serverless and traditional hosting environments. Josh also shares insights on Laravel's developer experience, front-end integration options, and his thoughts on what JavaScript frameworks could learn from Laravel's approach to abstraction and infrastructure.
Show Notes
0:00 - Intro
1:02 - Sponsor: Wix Studio
1:46 - Introduction to Laravel
2:25 - Josh's Journey from Frontend to Backend
5:40 - Building the Same Project Across Frameworks
6:32 - Josh's Breakthrough with Laravel
8:20 - Laravel's Frontend Options
10:25 - React Server Components Comparison
12:00 - Livewire and Volt
13:41 - Josh's Course on Laracasts
14:08 - Laravel's DX and Ecosystem
16:46 - MVC Structure Explained for JavaScript Developers
18:25 - Type Safety Between PHP and JavaScript
21:12 - Laravel Pain Points and Criticisms
22:40 - Laravel Team's Response to Feedback
24:50 - Laravel's Limitations and Use Cases
26:10 - Laravel's Developer Products
27:20 - Option Paralysis in Laravel
30:46 - Laravel's Driver System
33:14 - Web Dev Challenge Experience
33:38 - TanStack Start Exploration
34:50 - Server Functions in TanStack
37:38 - Infrastructure Agnostic Development
41:02 - Serverless vs. Serverful Cost Comparison
44:50 - JavaScript Framework Evolution
46:46 - Framework Ecosystems Comparison
48:25 - Picks and Plugs
Links Mentioned in the Episode
- Laravel - PHP framework
- TanStack Start - React meta-framework Josh created a YouTube video about
- Livewire - Laravel's HTML-over-the-wire front-end framework
- Inertia.js - Framework for creating single-page apps
- Volt - Single file component system for Livewire
- Laravel Cloud - Managed hosting solution for Laravel applications
- Herd - Laravel's tool for setting up PHP development environments
- Forge - Laravel's server management tool
- Envoyer - Laravel's zero-downtime deployment tool
- Laracasts - Where Josh has a course on Livewire
- Josh Cirre's YouTube channel
- HTMX - Frontend library Josh compared to Livewire
- Web Dev Challenge with Jason Lengstorf (featuring Josh and Amy)
- Josh Cirre's BlueSky account (@joshcirre)
- Amy's BlueSky account
- Brad's BlueSky account
Additional Resources
- Laravel Documentation
- Svelte's new starter kit (mentioned as a good example)
- Nightwatch - Latest product from Laravel
- Laravel Vapor - Serverless deployment platform for Laravel
- Theo's Laravel exploration (discussed in the criticism section)
- Laravel Breeze
- Laravel Jetstream
- Laravel Fortify (authentication package mentioned)
- Adonis.js (JavaScript framework compared to Laravel)
- Anker USB powered hub (Josh's pick)
- Grether's Sugar Free Black Currant Pastilles (Josh's pick)
- JBL Portable Speaker (Amy's pick)
