conscient podcast

This is a bonus episode from my 'a calm presence' substack: lens shift featuring an excerpt from e164 jimmy ung - proximity proportionate responsibility.

The original text is below. The audio version was recorded on my iPhone in Vancouver on September 9, 2024 (4 minutes, 36 seconds). I also invite you to read the comments about this posting including one by Don Hill about the use of 'either/or dilemmas' in this kind of writing, which is a fair point (thanks Don). My response included that I sometimes 'do not leave enough room for the listener or reader to take their own space' (I'm working on that) but that in this case, I wanted to produce a 'polemic and provocation' given the severity of our situation. Thanks for reading and-or listening. 

*

lens shift

from endless growth to societal collapse

Ok, are you still with me after that subtitle? :-)

If so, when you get a chance, please try this exercise:

Think of something you are currently doing - anything - and then shift your perspective on that activity from an ‘endless growth’ lens to a ‘societal collapse’ lens.

Everything changes, right?

Well, maybe not right away…

Here’s an example: You’re driving a car and you’re ‘endless growth’ mode. You might feel encouraged, seemingly without consequence, to want a bigger or faster vehicle, whereas with a societal collapse lens, hum, you would make rethink owning a private vehicle altogether and focus your energies on other things such as on our dying planet.

Same car, two very different lenses.

Jimmy Ung’s in e164 jimmy ung - proximity proportionate responsibility of the conscient podcast said something that I think is worth remembering at this point:  

·      ‘If we were to do an inventory of where all the things we own were made, that would give us a very interesting map of where our responsibility, our attention and our donations ought to go because our pressures on the global systems can be revealed. That's a much more reasonable way to interact with different crises than to simply read about it on the news and interact with the whole of it without the context of our footprint.’

Right, context.

So, having done the exercise, what does one do? : car sharing, keep our old phones as long as possible, donate strategically to charity, learn to unlearn ? There are many things that we are doing and can continue to do more of…

But, the critical part is to apply this idea of ‘lens shift’ in every aspect of our lives and see where it takes us.

Personally, it has brought relief, relief in the spirit of the Deep Adaptation Forum’s ‘embodying and enabling loving responses to our predicament’.

Relief, but not in a doomist or defeatist kind of way, but relief in the sense of releasing pressure.

Releasing pressure that helps me deal with things as they really are and direct my energy based on what I feel about that reality not what I imagine through the fairy tale of modernity.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). 

It’s my way to give back.

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish free ‘a calm presence' Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.

Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on September 28, 2025

• The role of the artist in the climate crisis is not simply to communicate scientific information in a sort of dressed up kind of way, but really to engage the imagination to do that thing that only art can do, which is getting at these almost imperceptible shifts in identity, in purpose and meaning, and the way that we as humans think about our relationship with the natural world and our place in it. It’s ineffable, that kind of shift. If that’s not the role of art, I don't know what is.  

Judi Pearl has been a passionate environmentalist since her early teens here in Ottawa, unceded Algonquin-Anishinaabe lands. 

In addition to her long-standing role with the English Theatre Department at the National Arts Centre, Judi formerly served on the boards of The Only Animal theatre company and the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres also known as PACT.

Judi is also a co-founder, along with myself, Anjali Appadurai, Robin Sokoloski, David Maggs, Kendra Fanconi and Anthony Garoufalis-Auger of SCALE (Sectoral Climate Arts Leadership for the Emergency), a non-profit network of artists, cultural practitioners, and arts organisations committed to addressing the climate emergency. This organization was founded in 2021, where Judi was also the Operations Lead until 2023. You can learn about SCALE by listening to its current leader of SCALE, Annette Hegel, in e176 art as a tactic.

At the NAC, Judi has produced large-scale projects such as Grand Acts of Theatre, Stages of Transformation, the NAC Hip Hop Theatre Festival, the annual ceremony for the Siminovitch Prize (2016-2020) as well as Family Day (2011-2015), among many others. She was also the recipient of the CEO’s Award of Excellence in 2020. Well deserved, I’m sure. 

My first conversation with Judi  (e59 pearl – positive tipping points) took place during a walk in the park here in Ottawa where we talked about theatre, the climate emergency, collaboration, arts leadership, the intersection of arts and sustainability and elusive positive tipping points. I invite you to listen back to that episode:

• SCALE is really trying to become that gathering place that will engender that high level collaboration, which hopefully will create those positive tipping points.

Fast forward 3 years later and Judi has a new title at NAC English Theatre ‘Associate Producer, Artistic Programming and Environmental Projects’, which points to her long standing leadership role on environmental issues at the NAC and in the arts sector in general. 

Judi’s work these days has an increased focus on artistic programming such as the Irresistible Neighbourhoods, a multi-year play development project centered on themes of climate and sustainability, which nurtures both emerging and established playwrights to imagine alternative visions for the neighbourhoods they call home and I invite you to go all the way back to the second episode of this season, e155, where you can hear Sanita Fejzić talk about her Irresistible Neighbourhoods radio play Machines and Moss. When I first Sanita’s play I was blown away. I loved it. 

Irresistible Neighbourhoods

It was good to reconnect with Judi, the theatre producer and climate activist. I’ve always appreciated Judi’s insights on art and climate emergency policy as well as her moral clarity, for example : 

• What we hear is extremism on both sides, even though those extremist views are often, I think, a minority, and yet those are the voices we hear the most that get the most attention and then because of the way social media works or the media in general works, that extremism tends to beget more extremism, hence polarization just gets worse and worse. I really hope that the arts and artists can be a force to counter that trend.

Judi also observes that the arts are well placed to address these wounds :

• I think it's vitally important that artists hone, cultivate and maintain an ability to dialogue and listen and reach people who think differently.

And I think we should be grateful to Judi and her peers for working so hard to help set up SCALE and similar organizations that place the arts at the centre of the complex challenges that we face and thereby increasing their relevance. 

Judi’s recommended readings are : 

• Not the End of the World : How We Can Be the First Generation to Build a Sustainable Planet by Hannah Ritchie
• Fix the News by Angus Hervey

Note: This document was referred to during this conversation : Walking Gently on the Land (National Arts Centre Environmental Sustainability Action Plan 2023-2026)

*

Sections of the episode (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)

Reconnecting with Judi Pearl
Judi Pearl returns to the conscient podcast, reminiscing about past conversations and her journey in the arts. The discussion sets the stage for exploring her current role at the National Arts Centre and her commitment to environmental issues.

Judi’s Journey in the Arts
Judi shares her background as a theatre artist, highlighting her evolution from stage manager to associate producer at the National Arts Centre. She emphasizes her deep connection to Ottawa and her work in a large institution.

The NAC’s Environmental Commitment
The conversation shifts to the National Arts Centre’s environmental policies, including their new strategic plan and sustainability action plan. Judi discusses the importance of setting targets for waste, energy, and artistic programming.

Creative Green Tools and Climate Awareness
Judi and Claude elaborate on the Creative Green Tools in Canada and their relevance to measuring the environmental impact of the arts. Judi highlights the importance of raising awareness and establishing baselines for carbon footprints within institutions.

Irresistible Neighbourhoods: A New Artistic Initiative
The focus shifts to Judi’s artistic work at the NAC, particularly the ‘Irresistible Neighbourhoods’ project. She explains how this initiative aims to explore neighbourhoods through a climate lens, involving emerging playwrights in the creative process.

The Role of Climate Dramaturgy
Judi discusses the innovative concept of climate dramaturgy, introduced by Vicki Stroich, and its significance in shaping narratives around environmental issues. This approach encourages playwrights to imagine futures for their neighbourhoods beyond dystopian themes.

Integrating Music and Theatre
As the conversation continues, Judi shares insights on the integration of music and theatre in the second volume of ‘Irresistible Neighbourhoods.’ She highlights the collaborative process between composers and playwrights to create a unified artistic vision.

Art’s Potential for Cultural Shift
Judi reflects on the power of art to influence societal attitudes and values, drawing parallels with historical movements. She argues that cultural shifts are essential for driving political and economic change, particularly in the context of climate action.

Facing the Future: The Role of Arts
As we confront the uncertainties of the future, the conversation shifts to how the arts can play a pivotal role in addressing societal challenges. The discussion highlights the potential for the arts to foster resilience and adaptation in communities facing resource scarcity and climate change.

Bridging Divides: The Power of Dialogue
The dialogue emphasizes the importance of engaging with differing perspectives in an increasingly polarized world. Artists are encouraged to cultivate the ability to listen and connect with those who hold contrasting views, fostering a more inclusive discourse.

Navigating Modernity: A Call for Openness
The conversation delves into the complexities of modernity and the need for new visions as societal structures evolve. The speakers advocate for open dialogue and collaboration to address pressing issues, highlighting the potential of community-engaged arts.

Finding Hope Amidst Challenges
As the discussion turns to the media’s portrayal of current events, the speakers reflect on the necessity of sharing positive stories that inspire action and change. They recommend resources that highlight impactful initiatives and encourage a more balanced view of the world’s progress.

Joy in the Everyday: Celebrating Small Wins

Judi shares personal moments of joy and gratitude, emphasizing the importance of recognizing positive aspects in life amidst challenges. They reflect on the significance of community and the arts in fostering connection and hope.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• If we're going to see change happen, it's going to be because people change and that doesn't occur when you preach to them or you evangelize or anything else. It comes because people, in whatever way is appropriate for them, as individuals, begin to reevaluate the way they live, the way their friends live, and make different choices and say to the government, more has to be done. Because what we're losing and what the next generation, our children and grandchildren will lose is immeasurable and we have to act now. Later is too late.  So Climate Legacy essentially is trying to identify what are the ways in which you have that conversation with people.

In this episode, former CEO, climate activist and social innovator Tim Brodhead takes us on a reflective journey through his extensive experience in philanthropy and international development. 

He shares his evolving perspectives, from initially believing in the capacity of developed countries to aid ‘undeveloped’ nations, to recognizing the often exploitative dynamics at play between wealthy and poorer countries. 

This shift has led him to focus on the importance of educating Canadians about the unsustainability of their lifestyles and the need for mutual enlightenment over traditional aid approaches.

When I arrived at Tim home in Metcalfe Ontario, south of Ottawa, I was greeted by a warm, gentle smile and the sweet sound of an antique grandmother clock, whose ticking and bells became a leitmotif throughout our conversation

(Sound of clock)

Tim Brodhead is as accomplished as he is humble. He was president and chief executive officer of the J.W. McConnell Family Foundation from 1995 to 2011. From 2013 to 2014, he served as interim president and chief executive officer of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation.Prior to joining McConnell, Tim spent 25 years working in international development, mainly in West Africa, South Sudan, India, and Bangladesh. He was the founding executive director of ACORD, based in London, U.K., and in 1975, he co-founded the Canadian development agency Inter Pares which is based here in Ottawa just down the street from my home. 

Before our conversation Tim sent me an email with some initial responses to my question about the ‘end of the world as we know it and how to create conditions for new worlds to emerge?’.

He started with a historical perspective : 

• Over stretch of a millennium a relatively small community in N-E Europe embarked on some pretty big social experiments: enclosing common lands and the emergence of private ownership as the prime creator of wealth; a splitting of spiritual and material worlds (“Cogito ergo sum”), the conception of private property backed up by State power as the source of personal security, the patriarchal and hierarchical nature of authority, the faith in science and technology as the main drivers of ‘progress’, etc. The experiment unfolded brilliantly for several centuries and material well-being grew by leaps and bounds - along with wars of dispossession, despoiling of the natural environment, yawning inequality in all the markers of human well-being, etc.

He goes on to note some of the failings of modernity : 

• But then it emerges that the experiments are failing - the costs outweigh the benefits, the fruits are too unequally divided, the ecosystem is pushed beyond its capacity to assure the essentials of life. The civilization that embodies these experiments begins to undergo a catastrophic failure. This has happened before; civilizations rise and fall. The problem this time is that the process of colonization has produced a global mono-culture. The values, beliefs and institutions that emerged in NE Europe have spread all over the globe; they are called ‘modernity’ and ‘progress’ and those who don’t yet have them aspire to acquire them as fast as possible. The alternative beliefs and understandings - the famous ‘other ways of seeing, knowing and being’ have been stamped out or suppressed. Yes, islands of resistance remain, mostly in Indigenous communities, but they have the status of folklore.

Tim concludes his pre-interview email with this insight about one of the sources of our problems : 

• The world-as-we-know-it may be ending but it has some pretty fierce defenders - all those whose wealth and privilege are at risk, plus those who cannot conceive of alternatives, and those who firmly believe that technology still has the power to solve our problems. The media, knowledge and education systems, cultural industries, commercial and advertising are all controlled by those with wealth and power and they all reinforce the fundamental message: This is the way the world works; if you can’t see that, YOU are the problem! 

I agree. So what do you suggest we do, Tim? 

• We need to rethink and reform and invest in new approaches and we're by and large unwilling to do it. So the need for social innovation is as strong now as it has ever been, but the facile use of language, like everyone is a changemaker, just ignores the fact that this is really hard work.

Ok Tim. Let’s get to work. it’s really a question of time at this point, isn’it?

(Clock continues until one bell is rung) 

But wait, what about art? Is it our saving grace or a voice of consolation? 

A warning, listeners, near the end of the recording you’ll hear a long silence as we listen together for the 11am ring of the grandmother clock. Enjoy. 

It’s July 16th 2024, 10.17 am and we’re in Tim Brodhead’s dining room. Tic toc tic toc… 

Tim recommended,  in terms of reading Mary Oliver’s suggestion in Instructions for Living a Life : pay attention, be astonished, tell about it. 

*

Chapters of the podcast (generated by AI, reviewed by Claude Schryer)

Welcome 
The conversation begins with a warm welcome as the host introduces Tim Brodhead, setting the stage for a discussion on art and societal themes. The intriguing ticking clock adds an element of anticipation to the dialogue.

Reflections on Development
Tim shares his background in philanthropy and international development, reflecting on the naive perceptions of helping ‘developing’ countries. He discusses the shift from a mindset of helping others to recognizing the need for enlightenment within our own cultures.

The Price of Progress
The conversation delves into the consequences of Western lifestyles on identity and community, highlighting the trade-offs of modernity. Tim emphasizes the loss of solidarity and the cultural erasure experienced by many societies.

Indigenous Wisdom and Reconciliation
Tim discusses the importance of learning from Indigenous cultures and the values they offer in terms of sustainability and respect for the environment. He raises concerns about the appropriation of these values and the challenges of true reconciliation.

A Critical Perspective on Modernity
The conversation shifts to a critique of modernity, revealing how historical narratives have often overlooked the successes of non-Western societies. Tim argues that the dominant worldview has led to a monoculture, erasing valuable alternatives.

The Epidemic of Loneliness
Tim addresses the modern issues of loneliness and spiritual vacuums, suggesting that these problems are a result of the societal choices made over decades. The discussion highlights the need for a deeper understanding of our interconnectedness.

Art’s Role in Society
The host shifts focus to Tim’s relationship with art, exploring how it influences his life and work. Tim expresses his affinity for visual arts and literature, while acknowledging the complexities of art’s role within Western culture.

The Climate Legacy Project
Tim introduces the Climate Legacy Project, aimed at mobilizing older generations to take responsibility for environmental issues. He emphasizes the importance of behavioral change and systemic shifts to address climate challenges.

Conversations for Change
The discussion centers on the importance of personal conversations about climate change, especially among older generations. Tim highlights the need for intergenerational dialogue to inspire action and change.

Indigenous Worldviews and Modernity
Tim contrasts Indigenous perspectives on decision-making with the fast-paced nature of modern culture. He argues for a balance between progress and a deeper understanding of the long-term impacts of our choices.

Empowering Older Generations
The conversation explores the unique role of older women in environmental activism and the importance of their voices in the climate movement. Tim discusses how older generations can leverage their assets and experiences to foster change.

The Power of Financial Choices
Tim emphasizes the responsibility of older generations to question how their financial assets are being used. He advocates for a shift in investment practices to support sustainable and socially responsible initiatives.

The Power of Art in Social Change
In this section, the discussion revolves around the limitations of rational arguments in driving behavioral change regarding biodiversity and the need for art and creativity to engage people on a deeper level, beyond mere reason.

Navigating Social Innovation
The conversation delves into the concept of social innovation, its origins, and the paradox of trying new approaches within a system that often resists change. Tim critiques the overuse of buzzwords like ‘changemaker’ and highlights the challenges of implementing systemic change.

Rethinking Social Systems
This section explores the persistent issues within social systems, such as the penal and healthcare systems, that fail to produce desired outcomes. Tim calls for a reevaluation of approaches and an openness to innovative solutions.

The Complexity of Modern Living
The discussion shifts to the complexities of modern life and the need for simplification, as highlighted by various voices advocating for a slower, more mindful existence. The speaker reflects on the balance between appreciating modern advancements and recognizing their costs.

Time and Reflection
As the clock chimes, the conversation takes a metaphorical turn, comparing the clock’s winding mechanism to the cycles of life and the inevitability of death. This introspective moment leads to a discussion about the significance of time and how it shapes our experiences.

The Art of Reading and Listening
The chapter focuses on the speaker’s passion for reading and the impact of literature on their worldview. They discuss the challenges of managing an overwhelming amount of information and the importance of finding meaningful stories that resonate.

Curating Knowledge in a Digital Age

In the final section, the conversation reflects on the balance between consuming media and engaging with the world around us. The speaker highlights the value of sharing knowledge and stories, emphasizing the importance of meaningful connections in both reading and listening.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• That's the thing about the future's work and foresight work is you need a very broad range of thinkers. You need people from different perspectives who speak different languages and who recognize different worldviews. I think that's always why artists will be important in that process, because they are not necessarily coming from sort of mainstream culture. They may be immersed, raised in mainstream culture, but they're often trying to say, hey, there are other ways of seeing the world, and there are other ways of responding to the world that we're in right now.

I first met Zan Chandler in 1999 when we were both starting work at the Canada Council for the Arts running arts programs. I’ve kept in touch with Zan over the years and have followed her career as an arts educator and expert in foresight. 

I’ve always been fascinated with various forms of futuring so I was happy when Zan clarified, for example, the difference between forecasting and foresight. We also talked about foresight into the future of the arts and how the arts can help us anticipate better futures. 

Zan’s journey in the arts and foresight fields began with her background in linguistics, shifting to arts through photography and film, leading to work at the Department of Canadian Heritage on arts and film policy and now at Policy Horizons Canada. 

During our conversation Zan notes that artists are good at sensing societal shifts and addressing various forms of injustices.  Our conversation explored the potential of art and artists in foresight work, such as storytelling and emotional connections. 

Zan suggests that the inclusion of artists in foresight work can help challenge our assumptions and introduce new and valuable perspectives.

We also talked about the impact of COVID: 

• While I might have been a little doom and gloom about what happened during COVID and how devastating some of the impacts were on the arts community, I think one thing that came through strongly for me was how the innate need to create together, regardless of what the context was, remained. And we have so many examples of the creative sector coming together to raise spirits and to create in ways, in new ways.

My takeaway, if not my prognosis, is that we need to be prepared for multiple outcomes while remaining open and actively working on new possibilities. Zan reminds us that:

• That's the idea around foresight. If you imagine that it's possible, you've at least started to think about : what do I have to do if this happens and how do I recognize that it might be beginning to happen.

If you are interested in exploring ways of being and perceiving that likely different to what you were exposed to in school and at work, Zan recommends the following books as a good start:

• Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World by Tyson Yunkaporta
• The work of Gabor Mate and Bessel van der Kolk

*

Sections (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)

Introduction to the Podcast
The podcast kicks off with a warm welcome to Zan, highlighting her long-standing connection and the intent to explore the intersection of arts and foresight.

Zan’s Journey into Arts and Foresight
Zan shares their unique background, detailing their unexpected journey from linguistics to the arts and eventually into the foresight field, shaped by their experiences in Canada and abroad.

Understanding Foresight vs. Forecasting
The conversation delves into the distinctions between forecasting and foresight, emphasizing the importance of recognizing multiple possible futures rather than predicting a singular outcome.

The Arts as a Form of Foresight
Zan discusses the role of the arts in anticipating future social and technological changes, citing Marshall McLuhan’s insights on how art acts as an early warning system for societal shifts.

Balancing Hope and Reality
The discussion shifts to the challenges posed by climate change and societal trends, exploring how to maintain a positive outlook amidst overwhelming negative information.

The Role of Technology and Spirituality
Zan reflects on the intersection of technology and spirituality in addressing future challenges, considering how a broader interpretation of technology can influence our survival.

Ancestral Knowledge and Connection to the Planet
The conversation highlights the importance of ancestral knowledge and the need to reconnect with our roots and the planet, emphasizing how this connection can inform foresight practices.

The Interconnectedness of History and Future
Zan and Claude discuss how understanding history is crucial for anticipating future changes, noting that many current issues are rooted in long-standing historical processes.

Empowering Artists Through Foresight
In this chapter, the discussion revolves around how everyday artists can leverage foresight methodologies to enhance their creative practices and navigate post-COVID challenges. The importance of understanding cultural and historical contexts in foresight is emphasized as a means for artists to feel more engaged in their work.

Artists as Natural Foresight Practitioners
The conversation highlights how artists inherently possess skills relevant to foresight, such as making connections and responding to societal changes. The speakers advocate for artists to recognize their unique contributions and consider integrating foresight methodologies into their practices.

The Role of Assumptions in Foresight
This chapter delves into the significance of questioning assumptions within foresight work, particularly in policy contexts related to the arts. The speakers discuss how assumptions about touring and audience engagement were challenged during the pandemic, prompting a reevaluation of the art sector’s future.

Adapting to Change: Lessons from COVID-19
Reflecting on the impact of COVID-19, the speakers discuss how the pandemic revealed vulnerabilities in the arts sector’s assumptions about gathering and touring. They explore the resilience of artists and the potential for innovative adaptations in response to ongoing global challenges.

The Arts in Times of Crisis
The discussion shifts towards the vital role of the arts during crises, emphasizing how storytelling and creativity can foster community resilience. The speakers look forward to exploring historical and future perspectives on the arts’ contributions in challenging times.

Creativity Amidst Constraints
This chapter celebrates the arts’ ability to thrive under constraints, showcasing examples of global collaborations that emerged during the pandemic. The speakers highlight the enduring importance of artistic expression as a means of connection and commentary on societal issues.

Foresight Beyond Human Perspectives
The conversation emphasizes the need for foresight practices to consider more than just human interests, advocating for a broader perspective that includes the planet and other species. The speakers reflect on the historical roots of foresight and the potential for cultural foresighting to shape a more inclusive future.

Recommended Reads

In the final chapter, Zan shares her recent reading recommendations.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• I think a lot of people right now are feeling terror or feeling deep grief - worry about climate - and might mention it in a joking way over dinner, like ‘oh, well, we'll see if we're all around in 20 years’ and there's so much truth to that, to the pain people are feeling in the worry. And so in the end, I think and hope that it's helpful to share my personal emotional experience of this, even though it's very vulnerable to do so.

As promised during our first conversation on June 10th, 2024, in e187 alice irene whittaker - caring for the planet I love, I’ve now read Homing: A Quest to Care for Myself and the Earth book that came out on Tuesday, September 3, 2024. 

Here is my review of the book. Please keep in mind that this is my first try at being a literary critic. Luckily, it was easy, because I loved the book and highly recommend it to everyone. 

I loved the flow of the book, like gently canoeing down a river with occasional sudden rapids but with some portaging. And I notice that you often refer to rivers in the book. We’ll come back to that. 

At times the mix of practical and poetic did not work for me but then I’m not your average reader either, because my life story is actually much like yours, except that that I was a perfectionist and overachieving musician instead of a dancer - and I didn’t break my arm, not yet anyway. I think we were brought up equally enamoured with nature and worried sick about the implication of modernity and our complicity in it, though we would not have used that language back then…

So on the practical side I enjoyed learning more, for example, about eco-responsible local living : the buy nothing movement, the unbuilding movement, the permaculture movement and so on. I also loved hearing about that magical 37th degree isotherm and other stories of life on earth that warms the spirit. 

Here are some my highlights: 

• You talk about ‘Fashion as an ecosystem of justice, climate, soil, labour, gender, creativity, expression and culture, made up of people each with their own offerings and niche, intricate in its diversity and interconnections.’ in the context of sustainable fashion 
• You remind us that ‘it’s time for a whole-of-self-transformation, one that is messy and imperfect and wholehearted’, which does not sound perfectionist but rather grounded in reality
• I love your thinking around economic issues, for example, you wrote that ‘For the circular economy, or any alternative model to be meaningful, it has to recognize Indigenous worldviews and pay reparations to the people who have been exploited, traumatized, and marginalized in the centuries-long project of the linear, patriarchal, colonial and capitalist economy.’

And this last one, more on the poetic side, made me nostalgic for winter:

• Snow is water holding its breath, a calm pause after a deep inhale, waiting for that great exhale of spring when, instead of air, water rushes forth with relief.

Beautiful, engaging writing. 

And of course your Homing book made me think about my own domestic life and my own idea of home.

An excerpt from episode 185 of this podcast with indigenous artist Sandra Laronde came to mind: 

• I really believe that we carry the spirit of the land wherever we go. In the Western canon, they say that once you leave home, you can never return, but in the Indigenous canon, home never leaves you. 

I can see affinities between Sandra’s statement about home never leaves you and the purpose of your book which is about : 

• … care, motherhood, healing, faltering, and searching for ways to live during breakdown and about finding home, when our planetary home is eroding, and questioning how - and whether - to have hope.

What then is hope? What is home? What is life? What is love? You ask a lot of questions.

One of things that caught my attention in Homing was the idea of ‘breakdown’ (some might call it ecological and societal collapse) but systemic breaking down in one way or another, which is a necessary step in nature’s regeneration process but is also necessary for us to live through as we exit the modern world and btw the word through is very important in your book. We’ll come back to that.

So, I would say that Homing is a hoot - a funny and moving book - but it’s also a sobering book that is connected to reality.

What your book shows us, Alice Irene, is how to batten down the hatches and to get ready for a storm that is already here, as you’ve experienced this week with the floodings in Chelsea, Québec and the disappearance of your gardens and some of your beloved natural spaces but it’s also about unblocking creative energies and working through that dynamic. Working through… 

I like the way you put it on page 171:

• Believing in myself as beneficial rather than harmful provided a deep and unfamiliar freedom. 

Overall, I would say that Homing is a valuable addition to ecological and climate crisis literature. It’s so deeply personal that we can literally feel your pains and joys but it’s also a universal story that can appeal to anyone, anywhere. 

And I think that it’s a literary tour de force and I want to thank you, and your family, for sharing your story and I hope you write a sequel, when you’re ready. I’m really curious to know what happens next. 

*

Chapters (generated by AI and corrected by Claude Schryer)

Reconnecting and Reflecting
Alice Irene and Claude reconnect after their previous conversation, setting the stage for a deep dive into Alice Irene’s new book. They discuss the significance of the book’s launch and the events surrounding it.

A Journey Through the Book
Claude shares her heartfelt review of Alice Irene’s book, describing its flow and it’s mix of practical and poetic elements and how Alice Irene reflects on the themes of nature, personal experiences, and the book’s impact on her own understanding of home.

Exploring the Concept of Home
The conversation shifts to the idea of home, Alice Irene discussed the emotional and philosophical implications of what home means in a changing world.

The Necessity of Breakdown
Alice Irene introduces the concept of breakdown as a necessary step in nature’s regeneration process. This theme resonates throughout the book, prompting a discussion on how it relates to personal and societal challenges.

Personal Stories and Vulnerability
Alice Irene reflects on the personal nature of her writing, discussing how her experiences shaped the book with an emphasis on the importance of sharing vulnerabilities and the healing power of storytelling.

Navigating Perfectionism
The conversation delves into the struggles of perfectionism and its impact on environmentalism. Alice Irene shares her candid experiences, highlighting the complexities of living sustainably in an imperfect world.

Guilt and Accountability
Alice Irene discusses the feelings of guilt and shame that often accompany environmental choices. She advocates for a more compassionate view of our actions and the importance of community support.

The Journey Through Motherhood
Alice Irene draws parallels between childbirth and the journey of environmental stewardship, emphasizing the concept of ‘through’ as a theme in her life and writing. The discussion highlights the unique perspective of mothers in the environmental movement.

Finding Home in Erosion
The conversation returns to the theme of home, particularly in the context of environmental degradation. Alice Irene shares her recent experiences with flooding, prompting a deeper exploration of what home means when it is literally eroding.

Grief and Regeneration
Alice reflects on the emotional toll of losing parts of her home due to climate change. She discusses the grieving process and the potential for regeneration, both personally and ecologically.

Embracing Eco Grief
In this chapter, the conversation delves into the concept of eco grief and its importance in shaping how we live moving forwardf with an emphasis on the need for emotional intelligence and community support during times of loss.

Community Connections
The discussion highlights the power of community during crises, illustrating how neighbors come together to support one another in challenging times. Personal anecdotes reveal the deep bonds formed through shared experiences of vulnerability and mutual aid.

Art as a Healing Tool
Exploring the role of art during difficult periods, Claude and Alice Irene reflect on how creative expression can help individuals process grief and loss. They contemplate the importance of rituals to honor what has been lost and foster community healing.

The Dance of Life
The conversation shifts to the intersection of art and personal experience, They touch on the complexities of life, where joy and sorrow coexist, and how this duality can inform the creative practices.

Celebrating Literary Achievements
As the conversation wraps up, Claude and Alice Irene discuss the significance of book launches and the collaborative nature of writing.

The Power of Podcasting
Claude and Alice Irene exchange about the world of podcasting, discussing how it serves as a platform for sharing meaningful conversations and insights. They highlight the interconnectedness of their respective podcasts.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• It’s really important to have some sort of horizon to grasp onto and work towards and for me that is thinking about what possible worlds might exist and how can I spend my time contributing to making those worlds possible. Of course that is a huge question and it changes a lot day to day. I have been thinking a lot lately about how art and scholarship around the environment can teach and inform one another in terms of practice and action.

I know Emma Bugg from two art and environment research activities in Canada : Sustainability and the Arts (SATA), a SSHRC funded project led by Dr. Tarah Wright, professor at the Department of Earth & Environmental Sciences, at Dalhousie University that identifies Canadian and global scholars, artists and practitioners working in sustainability, including myself as one of their advisors. 

The other project is the Living Climate-Impact Framework for the Arts project, a qualitative arts framework, designed as part of the Research in Residence: Arts Civic Impact Initiative by Mass Culture, led by Robin Sokoloski, produced in collaboration with CreativePEI, that provides indicators to measure arts impact in environmental sustainability and fosters transformation towards climate action and adaptation by using forward-thinking to create a useful arts impact assessment framework.

Some interesting research here on how the arts can make a difference and the role of the arts in the ecological crisis.  

In other words, Emma Bugg, who is currently an interdisciplinary PhD student at the Faculty of Graduate Studies at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia is an arts and climate hero. Hard working and with an endless curiosity.  Before her studies at Dalhousie, worked at the Ottawa based non-profit Evidence for Democracy as the Communications and Campaigns Manager.

Our conversation explored the dilemma of the environmental crisis as a cultural crisis, and how if we want a sustainable future - and we do need that - we need to culturally transform our entire society.

Scholars like Emma are doing their part and increasingly contributing to the emerging field of sustainability and the arts; however, this growing body of scholarship and knowledge has not yet effectively tackled the specific role of arts organizations and their potentialities for impact and this is one of Emma’s passions. 

I got caught up myself in Emma’s enthusiasm for data, research and impact measurement during our conversation, when committed, quite impulsively, to apply the Living Climate-Impact Framework for the Arts on this podcast as a test case which I will share when I’m done on my ‘a calm presence’ Substack. Kudos to Emma and Robin and their colleagues for this tool. I invite others to try the framework. It’s a lot of fun to go through the Who, How, What format.

Emma recommends the following reading materials:

• Emergent Strategy, Shaping Change, Changing Worlds by adrienne maree brown
• Lillian’s Place by Alexis Bulman (cedar shed in Stratford PEI)

Note: also of interest to this episode is this paper by Emma Bugg, Tarah Wright and Melanie Zurba: 

Creativity in climate adaptation: Conceptualizing the role of arts organizations and https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/understanding-impact-in-sustainability-and-the-arts

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• The majority of individuals who work in this sector are deeply concerned about climate change and deeply motivated and often doing a lot about it in their personal lives but as a sector, we don't really have a vision of what our relationship is to it.  So the kinds of responses range from a kind of silence on it and trying not to look at it directly in the eye to a superficial level of conversation, saying things like touring requires flying : flying bad, therefore, we should stop touring. (Owais Lightwala)
• When we're living in moments of deep confusion and cultural fragmentation, to be able to offer something that has a simplicity to it or something that allows an audience to just breathe together, I think is the greatest gift that artists can offer audiences. And then when the world becomes less fractured, less fragmented, then the work needs to become more complex because the audience will start demanding, like, help me understand what we need to do differently or how we can live more cohesively or whatever but in this moment, in this country, and certainly I'd say in this city, Calgary, where I'm sitting right now, to be able to offer experiences where people can breathe and feel held and feel respected, even admired for their human experiences, seems to me the primary role of the performing arts (SGS)

When I first read the header for the Manifesto for Now project I was immediately drawn in because it said: 

• We are concerned. We should be. It’s a crisis. Here are some ideas for how we got here. And where we go next.

I'm concerned too. The Manifesto also questions:

• In this moment of multiple seismic shifts: ecological, technological and social, maybe the performing arts can serve as facilitators for the transformation of humanity.  How? 

One could argue that all the arts need to undertake this seismic shift and transformation and how is a good question. 

So I contacted the manifesto’s co-authors Owais Lightwala and Sarah Garton Stanley (also known as SGS) and we chatted on July 11th, 2024 about the origins of this rather radical project and its impact so far. 

Owais is Assistant Professor in the Creative School at Toronto Metropolitan University, he’s a producer and entrepreneur in the arts and culture worlds who likes to think about big ideas, solve interesting problems, and build better ways of doing things. Among other things he is the founding Director of Chrysalis at the Creative School, a new multidisciplinary performance hub at TMU.

SGS self-defines as someone who is into Culture, what it means, how we do it and why we need it. SGS is currently VP of Programming at Arts Commons in Calgary, Alberta, a member of the National Advisory Committee National Creation Fund (NAC), a Board Member Theatre Alberta,  a co-steward at Birchdale and among many things in the past SGS was Creator and lead The Cycle(s) in collaboration with Chantal BIlodeau, about theatre and climate change at the NAC in 2019, which I had the pleasure of working on while I was at Canada Council. 

You’ll hear in our conversation about why the original manifesto was created in April 2023 on the Canvas platform and that they have published 6 of 10 essays so far.

The essays are provocative and at times funny. For example, in the first essay, Art is for audiences first, artists second they observe that :

• People are worried about the climate, groceries, housing, loved ones getting sick, their future… they are NOT asking for more art… They ARE asking for relief. For fresh air. For peace and quiet. For connection. For love. For direction. We need less of what we ARE offering and more of what we are NOT. What if the arts gave people what they need right now? What would change?

I love this quote and the opening quotes of this episode that reflect this kind of courageous questioning of the role of art and what kind of art do people need at this time. 

Their second essay ‘We are not as important as we think we are (or The Shoe Shiners Dilemma), is equally as sharp:

• We need to make a much better case for what we do. Because we ARE more important than people think we are. Counter-intuitively, we think producing less will create more opportunities for a wider diversity of people to engage with what artists do. Less becomes more. We are all creative, yes, but we need to work together to make a case for our collective brilliance by betting big on individual brilliance.

Oh no. Not that trope again about the singularity of the ‘brilliant suffering artist’ again, blah blah blah! I disagree or at least I don’t understand. So you’ll hear that we did not agree on all points but that’s part of the fun of a manifesto isn’t it, to make us think more deeply, break through some barriers, question some of our rhetoric and assumptions and to take a stand. Who are we as a community and where are we going and, well … who cares? 

So I was pleased to see that the last of the 10 essays, not yet written, is called  ‘Start here. Your turn’, which I think is an invitation for the arts and cultural community to engage with Manifesto for Now and to respond, as openly and as fearlessly as our two colleagues have done so far. 

Owais recommends: 

• Children of Ruin, a 2019 science fiction novel by British author Adrian Tchaikovsky.

SGS recommends :

• Plurality, the future of collaborative technology and democracy
• Punditries such as Ezra Klein

*

Chapters (generated by AI, corrected by Claude Schryer)

Introduction to the Manifesto
The host introduces the episode, hinting at the manifesto’s significance and the exciting discussion ahead. 

Meet the Guests
Owais and SGS introduce themselves, sharing their backgrounds in the arts and their current roles. Their diverse experiences set the stage for a rich conversation about the manifesto and its implications.

The Manifesto’s Origins
The guests delve into the origins of the manifesto, discussing the questions that sparked their collaboration. They reflect on their shared inquiry into the purpose and impact of the arts in society.

The Role of Arts in Society
The conversation shifts to the role of the arts in addressing societal issues, particularly in the context of climate change and cultural fragmentation. The guests emphasize the need for artists to engage with audiences meaningfully.

Challenging Assumptions
The discussion takes a critical turn as the guests question the effectiveness of the arts in fostering societal dialogue. They explore the complexities of audience engagement and the challenges of measuring impact.

Future Directions of the Manifesto
The guests outline their hopes for the manifesto’s impact on the arts community, emphasizing the importance of ongoing dialogue and response. They invite listeners to engage with their questions and contribute to the evolving conversation.

Art and the Paradigm Shift
The guests discuss their personal struggles with imposter syndrome and the need for a paradigm shift in thinking, moving beyond superficial actions to deeper systemic changes. They emphasize the importance of giving people permission to engage with profound ideas rather than just tactical solutions.

The Arts Community and Climate Change
The conversation shifts to the arts community’s relationship with climate change, highlighting a disconnect between individual concern and collective action. The guests reflect on the need for a more profound sectoral vision regarding climate issues, rather than superficial responses.

Navigating the Climate Crisis in the Arts
The discussion delves into the impact of COVID-19 on the arts sector’s engagement with climate change, revealing how the shift to online platforms has not necessarily reduced carbon emissions. The guests explore the challenges artists face in accessing research and how this affects their storytelling.

Rebuilding Trust in a Fractured Society
The guests address the declining trust in society and the potential role of the arts in rebuilding connections among individuals. They discuss the importance of collective human activities in fostering trust, especially in the aftermath of COVID-19.

Cross-Sectoral Dialogue and Collaboration
As the conversation wraps up, the guests highlight the significance of cross-sectoral dialogue in tackling climate issues and rebuilding trust. They express a desire for ongoing discussions and collaborations that can lead to meaningful impacts.

Recommendations for Engaging Reads and Listening
The episode concludes with the guests sharing their current reading and listening recommendations, reflecting on how these works influence their thoughts and creative processes. They emphasize the importance of diverse perspectives in shaping their understanding of intelligence and society.

Invitation for Dialogue and Critique
In the final moments, the guests invite listeners to engage with their ideas, encouraging feedback and critique to sharpen their thinking. They express gratitude for the opportunity to discuss their work and the importance of community engagement in their creative endeavors.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• In primal cultures, there's a tendency to interweave everything with everything else, including art. People are very creative and expressive in everyday life, through ceremony and ritual, dance and art and carving and weaving and various aspects of life that are just considered quite normal for primal peoples. Part of primal cultures is a strong engagement with and resonance with eccentricity and uniqueness so people do things, even hunting, is an art form that people do in different ways.

Yin Paradies is a Wakaya anarchist radical scholar spreading decolonial love from, and as part of, unceded Wurundjeri land. Yin is also a climate and ecological activist committed to understanding and interrupting the devastating impacts of modern societies who seeks meaningful mutuality of becoming and embodied kinship with all life through transformed ways of knowing, being, and doing that are grounded in wisdom, humility, respect, and generosity.

I first heard Yin Paradies speak at the QuillWood Academy on April 23, 2024 where he gave a paper called ‘How did humans live before modern societies?’, which you can view on Yin’s YouTube channel. 

During our conversation I asked Yin what he thought might be most useful for artists and cultural workers to know about ‘how humans lived before modern societies’?

His responses took my breath away and literally slowed me down as our conversation unfolded, I was mesmerized, as if the silences were a third guest in the Zoom recording space. I felt like I was embodying Yin’s thoughts in real time.

In a nutshell, Yin’s research contrasts primal societies, which were egalitarian and kinship-based, with modern societies that emerged 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, bringing mostly patriarchy and hierarchy.

His thesis that modernity, despite its technological advancements, is linked to trauma and self-destructive behaviors whereas primal cultures, which view time cyclically and integrate art into daily life, enhance community ties and creativity. 

I agree.

I also asked Yin about deep listening:

• Deep listening is more about having that humility that we have everything to learn or something to learn from any aspect of the cosmos that we are in relationship with or entangled with. That sense of slowing down is about cultivating a different way of being aware. 

Near the end of our exchange we spoke about the role of art in times of crisis and how art has the potential to awaken new perspectives and foster community engagement, which is the theme of my next season of this podcast, starting in 2025, so I am thankful for his insights: 

• I think art can very much lead the way in terms of giving us those capacities to compost our own shit and to reimagine ourselves and our world. And importantly, probably most importantly, to re-enchant and reconsecrate our world because to be enchanted by the world is to grow in kinship and care and reverence and reciprocity with the world. 

Yin invites us to reimagine ourselves and reconsecrate our world through kinship, reciprocity and care. 

You can also see this conversation on the conscient podcast YouTube channel : e193 yin paradies - interweaving everything with everything else.

Yin recommended reading is Darren Allen’s  works on primal and modern cultures.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• Definitely we need a cultural transformation, and no one’s better positioned to contribute to that than the arts and culture. I think part of the task that we have ahead, as artists and culture makers, is to really question how we got here in the first place, what brought us here and and what are the stories we are being told.

Holà. I decided  to begin my conversation with the brilliant Mexican-Canadian cultural worker and climate communicator Julia Matamoros in Spanish so that she could introduce herself in her first language : 

‘Bienvenida Julia al podcast consciente. Mi español no es muy bueno pero quiero empezar nuestra conversación en este idioma. Antes de pasar al inglés, ¿por qué no empiezas con una introducción en español y luego un breve resumen de tus antecedentes en inglés y luego hablaremos sobre el arte y la crisis ecológica? ¿VALE?

It worked. Gracias Julia. 

I first met Julia in 2022 while I was chair of the board of SCALE and she was the communications lead. I was impressed by her strategies and insights on how to further engage artists in the climate emergency for example : 

• I think it's very difficult to build new worlds if we first don't understand what's wrong with the values we abide to right now and that on the one hand, and the second is to start imagining new worlds. That is very hard for a lot of us, when you only know one way of existing and relating to other forms of life. It's very difficult to think there could be other ways. I think arts and culture are perfectly positioned to lead the way for that. Art naturally is a space where we can break the rules, create new ones, question, and resignify. I think we need to resignify a lot and art needs to lead the way there, for sure.

As you can hear, Julia integrates her diverse background in arts, culture, social work, and community development with a focus on diversity, equity, inclusion, and complex and urgent issues like the climate emergency. 

Julia believes these areas are interconnected and essential for societal transformation and she talks about her work with a passion and a type of serenity that is contagious, in a good way. 

Our conversation explores a range of environmental challenges such as water scarcity in her native Mexico and highlights innovative climate solutions like rainwater harvesting, the permaculture movement, Mexico’s recent ban on GMO corn, and 'Energising Artivism', a new project that Julia is involved in that elevates the role of arts in social and environmental activism.

Julia also underscores the need for building networks to increase resilience in addressing climate issues, noting that many initiatives lack adequate community-building infrastructure and she explains this gap and how to address it throughout our exchange. 

Among other issues, Julia observes a disconnect between climate change understanding and action in the arts and culture sector, particularly among cultural leadership, and she does not hold her punches in her observations of the status quo:

• The arts and culture sector cares. People care. There's a lot of things happening. Where I see the gap is not necessarily in artists, cultural professionals or even organizations. I see it at the leadership level. This has been very shocking to me. Why is that? I think one of the reasons could be perhaps that Canada has started experiencing the impacts of climate change more drastically in recent years. Whereas other parts of the world have been experiencing that for a while. So what has been going on for the last few years, fires, floods, will change the perception around it as a real emergency. There's a reluctance to speak about it as a priority, to talk about it as an emergency, and to devote resources to it.

This section of our conversation brought me back to episode 183 about cultural leadership where we heard how the arts sector is exploring many of the root causes of the ecological crisis however, ironically, the arts sector is not yet in climate emergency mode.

This is a complex dilemma but I like the way Julia suggests ways for us to move forward. I want to thank  Julia for her cultural leadership and vision for the role of the arts. 

Julia wrote this note to me after our conversation which I think summarizes her concerns and aspirations: 

• Art is always in the business of culture and of cultural transformation. My wish would be for this transformation to become intentional, grounded in understanding of what no longer works, and in our shared yearning for new possibilities. I think it's already happening but not as a common project.

I agree. Let’s make it a common project, everyone, together. Hagamos que sea un proyecto común, todos juntos. 

Julia recommends the following publication 

• Spring Creek Podcast
• Sensing Earth : compilation of essays, interviews, poetry, manifestos, choreographic prompts, speculative fiction and case studies at the intersection of art and environmental activism, culture and nature.

Projects mentioned in the episode: 

• SCALE-LeSAUT
• 23 Climate Things
• Artivism Inaugural Global Conference Sept 5-8

Other links from Mexico

• Three channel video by interdisciplinary artist Tania Candiani :  I recently saw her work at MUAC. These images give you a better sense of how the piece was presented.
• Base bio architectura: there is a lot of experimentation happening in ecological architecture - different materials, techniques but with spectacular design at the heart of it all. I find base bio-architectura particularly beautiful.

*

Chapters (AI generated)

Introduction
Julia Matamoros introduces herself, sharing her journey from Mexico to Canada and her extensive background in arts, culture, and community development. She reflects on how she has integrated her passions for social work and the arts throughout her career.

The Intersection of Art and Climate
Julia discusses the natural transition from focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion to addressing climate issues, emphasizing their interconnectedness. She shares her belief that the arts play a crucial role in making connections between these causes.

Art as a Necessity
Julia elaborates on her lifelong relationship with art, describing it as a necessity that has always been integral to her life. She highlights her diverse interests in various forms of artistic expression, from literature to film and beyond.

Perspectives on the ‘End of the World (as we know it)
The conversation shifts to the theme of the end of the world as we know it with Julia sharing her perspective shaped by her experiences in Mexico. She discusses how the concept varies globally and the creative responses emerging in communities facing crises. 

Note: Julia noted afterwards that ‘I think William Gibson's famous quote summarizes what I'm trying to say “The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed.’

Engaging with Climate through Art
Julia shares her belief that the arts must engage with pressing societal issues, including climate change and inequality. She discusses her work with various projects aimed at fostering collaboration and participation within the arts sector.

Energizing Artivism
Julia introduces the concept of ‘Energising Artivism,’ a new project focused on uplifting the role of arts in addressing environmental and social challenges. She highlights the upcoming Artivism Conference in South Africa as a platform for collaboration.

Building Networks for Resilience
The importance of building networks within the arts community is emphasized as a means to foster resilience and collaboration. Julia discusses the need for a centralized infrastructure to connect artists and cultural organizations effectively.

Challenges Facing the Arts Sector
Julia and Claude discuss the various challenges artists face, including housing issues and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and how these challenges can be reframed as opportunities for deeper engagement for the arts with societal issues.

Cultural Transformation through Art
Julia argues for the necessity of a cultural transformation to address the climate emergency, asserting that artists are uniquely positioned to lead this change, emphasizing the importance of questioning existing narratives and imagining new possibilities.

Art and Community in Mexico
Shifting focus to Mexico, Julia shares insights into how the arts community is integrating ecological concerns into their work and vice versa. She highlights various initiatives that blend art with permaculture and sustainable practices.

Reviving Indigenous Craftsmanship
Julia discusses the resurgence of indigenous craftsmanship in Mexico, emphasizing the importance of ethical collaboration and recognition of cultural heritage. She describes how this movement is intertwined with sustainability and community building.

The Role of Arts in Crisis
The conversation returns to the role of the arts in addressing crises, with Julia reflecting on how artists can contribute meaningfully to societal challenges. She emphasizes the need for connection and collaboration among artists and communities.

The Power of Self-Organization
In this section, the importance of self-organizing within communities is emphasized, highlighting how local connections can lead to meaningful exchanges and on how art can facilitate these connections and foster new relationships among individuals.

Navigating Climate Conversations
The conversation shifts to the challenges of discussing climate change within the arts community, where feelings of denial and disempowerment often prevail and the need for more open dialogue about the climate emergency and how artists can lead these conversations through their work.

Bridging the Gap in Leadership
Here, the focus is on the disconnect between the grassroots level and leadership within the arts sector regarding climate action including the necessity for arts organizations to take on more responsibility and foster collaboration to address climate issues effectively.

Creating Unity and Frameworks
This section emphasizes the need for a unified approach within the arts sector to tackle climate change, suggesting that shared frameworks can guide collective efforts. The discussion highlights the importance of collaboration and agreement on priorities to maximize impact.

Hope and Healing through the Arts
The conversation reflects upon the role of the arts in fostering hope and healing amidst the climate crisis, emphasizing the need to reconnect with the joy of living. They discuss how the arts can bridge pain and possibility, encouraging a collective movement towards positive change.

Permaculture Principles and Cultural Transformation
In this section, the conversation delves into permaculture as a framework for cultural transformation, highlighting its relevance beyond agriculture including how adopting permaculture principles can guide communities toward sustainable living and resilience.

Cultivating a Caring Culture

The concluding section emphasizes the importance of reciprocity, caring, and community in navigating the challenges posed by climate change.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• We have folks who would never define themselves as artists, but are nonetheless creative and have ideas and are imaginative. How can we get them to feel that they can do arts and express their creativity? With community engaged arts anyone can participate or contribute in any way. I think that strength and social bond makes the community strong and also it helps during times of crises that you know that there's a community there with you.

Luc Lalande is an educator, mentor, innovation practitioner and civic entrepreneur with extensive experience in academic-industry-government sectors. He specializes in the design of programs that build innovation capacity for communities in both rural and urban regions.

He has served as a volunteer and advisor on numerous not-for-profit boards engaged in fields as diverse as addiction recovery for youth, regional economic development, women empowerment, arts /culture and education. He is also an active advocate for the growth of the maker movement, makerspaces and maker education locally and globally.

Luc Lalande is currently Innovator-in-Residence at the Rideau-Rockcliffe Community Resource Centre and the Carlington Community Health Centre in Ottawa. 

I first met Luc Lalande at an ‘Ideas, Welcome’ session about social infrastructure and third places at the Rideau Community Hub, in Ottawa, a 1950’s era high school that has been converted into an extremely diverse and dynamic community hub.

I was impressed by Luc’s spirit and his  savoir-faire. With my doomist hat on, I wanted to talk to him about how the Rideau Community Hub came about and how it might be a useful model for people to coexist and cooperate as the climate crisis worsens. 

But I also wanted to talk about community-engaged arts and his vision of the role of the arts.. In our french language conversation, balado conscient é162 luc lalande - curiosité, créativité et imagination, Luc noted that:

• Innovation and art have an interesting relationship. What comes before innovation and before ideas is curiosity, creativity and imagination. This is where I see the importance of art: inspiration for ideas.

Luc’s passion and vision for this kind of third space is palpable, for example: 

• A space like this can happen anywhere. Any community can look at their assets, whether it's a decommissioned school or a decommissioned church and through imagination, adaptation and reuse, rather than build something new that uses up a lot of material and energy. Many of these assets can be reimagined and repurposed for civic purposes which any community can do. 

And he thinks the arts (especially community-engaged arts) should play a central role in these spaces. Luc and I began our conversation in the massive auditorium at the Rideau Hub after which we then went for a bilingual soundwalk into the facility to listen to the space and hear its stories.

And one of these stories involves a surprise appearance by Shirley Whitford, one of the participants in a play conceptualized and scripted by local seniors. The play entitled ‘A Circle of Care’ was performed in the school’s former drama room. You never know who you’ll meet in the hallways of a community hub. 

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026