conscient podcast

• In Canada and many other parts of the world, we've relied on policymakers and scientists to be the ones communicating around climate, and they failed because they've only appealed to people's heads and haven't appealed to their hearts and souls. I think the big conversation coming out of COP 28 - and that you but I'm sure people at SCALE and others, we've known this for a long time, but it's kind of being recognized now - is that we need culture at the table. We need art and artists. We need to be connecting to all parts of people and not just showing numbers because that hasn't worked, and it's not working. And so I actually feel hopeful that art and culture being at the table will help with that whole overhaul and systems level transformation.

Note: I’m using Whisper Transcribe, an artificial intelligence podcasting tool, for the first time with this episode. It helped me generate quotes, create chapters (see below), generate transcriptions (see Transcripts section), produce social media postings (notice the new tone and hashtags) and write up the episode notes (notice more fluid language), however I’m a little skeptical about AI’s ability to get it all right (verification required) but it’s pretty good and saves me time and delivers a better product. However I will continue to write and record my very human introduction at the top of each episode like this… 

Sometimes you just have to be in the right place at the right time. I had just completed my conversation with Tanya Kalmanovitch (see e189 tanya kalmanovitch - mobilizing the power of the arts) at No. 9 gardens near Kingston, Ontario (see e68  for more on no. 9 gardens) when I sat down at a picnic table with a group of arts and climate activists at a meeting of the Centre for Sustainable Practices the Art (CSPA) and right in front of me was Kim Fry. The same Kim Fry who co-founded and runs Music Declares Emergency Canada and is a hero of mine. I know Kim by reputation, but we had not yet met in person, so, on the spot, I asked Kim to record a conscient conversation with me about her life’s work in music and environmental awareness. 

Kim now lives by the Atlantic ocean which is in Kjipuktuk, Mi'kma'ki territory, also known as Halifax, Nova Scotia. Before her recent move Eastward, she lived in Tkaronto for 27 years where she was an elementary school teacher, union activist, climate justice activist, environmental campaigner, storyteller and music manager. With the family move to K’jipuktuk, Kim decided to return to the world of environmental activism and music where she organized, among other things, the first ever Canadian Music Climate Summit. 

You’ll hear that Kim talk about the power of music in the climate emergency :

• We need systems change, and so we need the whole way that the music industry operates to really rethink itself and sometimes some people might say that's greenwashing, because we're still talking about these big, huge multinational corporations when it comes to the music industry but I think there are folks who navigate that space and do it incredibly well. 

You’ll also hear about Kim’s efforts to highlight the importance of creating safe spaces for emotional engagement through music and community such as the sustainability committee at the Juno Awards, which is dedicated to reducing the industry’s environmental footprint by promoting eco-friendly practices like public transit and plant-based catering.

A particularly inspiring anecdote for me was about Kim’s daughter Brighid Fry known under her artist name Housewife former Moscow Apartment) Bridghid ensured that a climate clause was included in her record deal. 

This type of action exemplifies the shift from incremental changes to systemic reform, advocating for the integration of culture and art into climate conversations and the shift from appealing from one’s heads to one’s hearts and souls.

Oh, and when she has free time, Kim is working on a novel about the climate emergency. I look forward to that and I think you’ll enjoy our unscheduled but long overdue conversation. 

Kim recommended the following publications and events:

• Birchbark House series by Louise Erdrich
• Hadestown by Anais Mitchell : a musical about climate change
• Neil Young’s Love Earth tour

Note: I have inserted 5 seconds of silence here and there during our conversation as interludes.

*

Episode Chapters (AI generated)

Introduction
In this section, Kim Fry introduces herself and shares her background as a climate activist, highlighting her journey from organizing student walkouts in the early '90s to her current work in music and climate activism.

The Role of Music in Climate Activism
Kim discusses the significant role that music and the arts play in climate activism, emphasizing how they can unite people and inspire political change through emotional connection.

Launching Music Declares Emergency
The conversation shifts to the founding of the Canadian chapter of Music Declares Emergency, detailing the collaborative efforts that led to its creation and the impact of the climate strikes in 2019.

Challenges for Musicians in the Climate Crisis
Kim addresses the reluctance of musicians to engage in climate discussions due to the carbon-intensive nature of touring, and the need for systemic change within the music industry.

Navigating Grief and Hope Through Music
This chapter explores how music can help individuals process grief and despair related to the climate crisis, while also fostering a sense of hope and community.

The Power of Collective Singing
Kim shares her personal experiences with singing and its transformative power, highlighting how collective music-making can ground individuals and strengthen community bonds.

Engaging the Next Generation
The discussion turns to the political engagement of Gen Z and the need for hopeful narratives that inspire action rather than despair, emphasizing the importance of storytelling in climate discourse.

Creating Space for Connection and Gratitude
Kim emphasizes the importance of cultivating gratitude and deep connections to nature as foundational elements for addressing climate challenges and fostering resilience.

Innovative Initiatives at the Junos
The conversation highlights the successful sustainability initiatives implemented at the Junos, showcasing how the music industry can take concrete steps towards climate action.

The Need for Systemic Change
Kim discusses the necessity of systemic change in addressing the climate crisis, advocating for a collaborative approach that integrates art and culture into climate solutions.

Youth Empowerment and Climate Action

The chapter concludes with a reflection on the empowerment of youth in climate activism, showcasing how the next generation is driving important conversations around sustainability and systemic change.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• What happens is that you have arts and environment initiatives popping up all over the place, but everyone's pitted against one another in competing for the same grants, right? So it makes it extraordinarily difficult to organize, to strategize, and to act with a collective insight about where it is that we need to go and how we can really mobilize the power of the arts.

This episode is a lot of fun. When I arrived at No 9 Gardens near Kingston, Tanya Kalmanovitch and her dog Finn were ready to go for a soundwalk on a sunny June 26th 2024 at 7.15am. 

My previous conscient conversation with Tanya was recorded remotely in June of 2011 (see e53 kalmanovitch – nurturing imagination) where we talked about music, ethnomusicology, arts education, the climate emergency, arts policy and how artistic practice can nurture imagination.

Our second conversation, equally as engaged and dynamic (but this time in person, and outdoors), picked up on some of these themes with a focus on the impact of Tar Sands Songbook, a documentary theatre play that tells the stories of people whose lives have been shaped by living in close proximity to oil development and its effects. 

I had the pleasure of seeing Tanya perform the Tar Sands Songbook at Carleton University (with thanks to Ellen Waterman) in Ottawa and wanted to ask Tanya how it went, and in particular, what it’s like to tour a show about climate change through art, in Alberta. 

Tanya wears many hats: she is a violist, an ethnomusicologist, and author known for her breadth of inquiry and restless sense of adventure, including an interest in improvisation, social entrepreneurship, and social action, such as being the mission circle lead of the Sectoral Climate Arts Leadership for the Emergency organization or SCALE which by now, regular listener will know : a network of artists, cultural practitioners, and arts organisations committed to addressing the climate emergency and environmental injustice.

As we walked in the wet fields of No9 gardens I love how Tanya doesn’t hold her punches: 

• ‘The end of the world as we know it’ is also a biased perspective, when you say that phrase, right? I'm pretty sure that the earth will keep going and it'll just sort of shake us off like some fleas; the dog scratches the fleas off and it will regenerate.

The field where we walked was mushy so you’ll hear of that rich dampness in the recording and our boots and running around of Finn the dog. You’ll also hear, near the end of our conversations children’s entertainer Mr. Rogers, where Tanya sings : 

• It's you I like, not the things you wear, not the way you wear your hair. It's you I like. The way you are right now. The things down deep inside you. It's not the ear inside you. It's not your toys, they’re just beside you…

I like you just the way you are, Tanya. Thanks for the full circle walk. We had a lot of fun and so did Finnigan.

Note: I inserted 5 second silences throughout the recording to give some space to the soundwalk. 

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• Having a conversation about the artworks and important issues such as climate change is everywhere in the globe. It's important for us also in the Horn of Africa region to talk about it through art, not politics necessarily. I feel like it opens a little bit of a door, a little bit more than the politics.

Dawit Seto is an Ethiopian performing artist specializing in contemporary dance and choreography who is currently based in Switzerland and whose artistic work intricately weaves together the stories of migrant histories from East Africa and engages in vigorous advocacy for climate justice in all of his artistic pursuits. And you’ll hear him talk with passion about the role of art in his life and for his communities. 

Through his dedication to storytelling via movement, Dawit transcends physical borders, amalgamating diverse influences and social consciousness into his creations, rendering them both captivating and socially impactful. And I experienced this when I saw his videos. 

Immersing in the intricate exploration of movement language within Ethiopia's vibrant traditional dance heritage, Dawit infuses his artistic works with an authentic cultural richness that resonates with global audiences. 

It certainly resonated with me when I first heard Dawit at a creative climate leadership alumni meeting on February 18th, 2024 where he spoke about the impact of climate change in eastern Africa.

I spoke with Dawit on June 12th, 2024 by Zoom. Here’s an excerpt from our conversation that positions why he participates in meeting like the creative climate network: 

• I have witnessed the disaster of what climate change can do. I see it in my age and it was also in my grandfather's age. For me, whenever international seminars or meetings are happening to talk about a future, it just makes me scared. And because I saw it in my age. It was not for future for me, climate. Climate was about yesterday. It was about today. Because of that I want to be a part of any conversation as much as I can handle because of resources. We are working on mobilizing and having a conversation and witnessing the disaster that we face.

Our conversation helped me understand the impact of the climate crisis in the Horn of Africa and how artists, such as Dawit, are engaging with these issues through artistic creation and cultural leadership.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• About collapse acceptance : I've been in that space and it is really liberating. How I frame it for myself is : I don't know how it all turns out and it's really out of my control and to not worry about it (not that I never worry about it) but what's really in my control is : do I show up as a human being and feel my humanity and care for the people I love and the places I love and this planet I love ? That is what I can do.

I first heard about Alice Irene Whittaker’s work from a colleague who said ‘you have to listen to the Reseed podcast’. I did. It’s a brilliant podcast about repairing our relationship with nature - and each other. 

Alice Irene has spent over a decade in leadership and executive roles in nonprofit organizations, think tanks, and charities, with a focus on gender equity and environmental issues. She co-founded, and was Executive Director of Mother Nature Partnership, a charity focussed on reusable, environmentally sustainable menstrual supplies for marginalized women and girls. Alice Irene is a member of Nature Canada’s Women for Nature, a group of women of influence who drive change for nature, and sits on the Board of Directors of Régénération Canada. In a previous life, Alice Irene was a professional dancer and contemporary dance choreographer, which she will talk about during our conversation. 

A heads up that this episode is going to be a 2 part conversation because her new book Homing: A Quest to Care for Myself and the Earth, from Freehand Books, is coming out on September 3, 2024 and I want to have a follow up conversation with Alice Irene specifically about the book later this summer though she does talk about it a bit in this conversation. 

The book is about care, motherhood, healing, faltering, and searching for ways to live during breakdown and about finding home, when our planetary home is eroding, and questioning how - and whether - to have hope. 

My feeling is that Alice Irene is ultimately an optimist but I’ll need to read Homing to find out how. 

We also talked about the role of art in the ecological crisis. Alice Irene notes that:

• Something I've learned about myself over and over again, is that I am an artist and I have an artist's soul, and that there are also other people like that out there. …  I think the role of art is vital and that it's been so underused and under-respected.

We also talked about the influence of sitcoms on changing cultural perspectives : 

• I think TV and movies, which are art, are changing opinions around gay marriage, for example, like sitcoms, and having it more embedded into pop culture is something that will be powerful. 

After conversation on Monday June 10, 2024 we went for a soundwalk to gather further sound material for this episode where she shares stories about her relationship to the land, including how she spent  time during COVID with her three young children by the stream. We’ll start the soundwalk in her husband’s workshop. 

Alice Irene recommended the following books: 

• Mary Oliver's poetry (notably Wild Geese)
• JOY IS THE JUSTICE WE GIVE OURSELVES by J. Drew Lanham
• WILDING: HOW TO BRING WILDLIFE BACK - AN ILLUSTRATED GUIDE by Isabela Tree
• ON ANOTHER PANEL ABOUT CLIMATE, THEY ASK ME TO SELL THE FUTURE AND ALL I’VE GOT IS A LOVE POEM by Ayisha Siddiqa from the On Being podcast
• the bibliography of Alice Irene’s book Homing

Note: Homing: A Quest to Care for Myself and the Earth available for pre-order on this website or at  places like Indigo-Chapters or your local bookstore.

Photo of Alice Irene by Brittany-Gawley

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• We have become a bit disconnected after COVID but at the same time we are emerging more consciously while we were more complacent before. I hold hope about an inherent belief that collective liberation is a planetary right. I think we should all be always learning to reach that goal.

semzyiri is a multimedia storyteller who blends surrealism, existentialism, cosmic wonder, and inner worlds with the lived reality of a neuroqueer cultural nomad. 

Navigating the crossroads of a world in poly-crisis and of nature divorced from human experience, semzyiri's work captures the intricate dance between the internal and external, offering a unique lens on our interconnected existence.

I first met semzyiri at an ‘Ideas, Welcome’ Session hosted by the Rideau-Rockcliffe Community Resource Centre meeting about social infrastructure and third places, organised by Luc Lalande and colleagues (see an upcoming episode about him) at the Rideau Community Hub, in Ottawa.

We met again by chance at a local eco fair on June 1 2024 where we talked about our common interest in community engaged arts, art and ecology and in social collapse awareness and acceptance. 

One of the topics that struck me in my conversation was the notion of ‘numbness’, which is coming back again and again this  5th season of the podcast, notably in e171 kimberly skye richards - dept of utopian arts & letters (‘one of the roles that artists play within the poly crisis is supporting us through processes of unnumbing’). semzyiri reminds us that : 

• Art is something that really bypasses our walls, our numbness and our overstimulation.

After our conversation semzyiri told me more about a new organization of which they are a co-founder called Collaborative Movements, a multimedia amplifier that centres community initiatives through a documentary series, a podcast, a website hub, and community events and that this initiative highlights and supports a network of third spaces, community centres, social enterprises, non-profit organizations, social innovation labs, and more. The idea is to address a diverse range of themes including local arts, sciences, sustainability, community mental health, social housing, food insecurity, IBPOC, 2SLGBTQIA+, and immigrant stories.

This is a welcome development in the Ottawa arts and media community, and I hope other communities are creating their own collaborative movements.

semzyiri recommends the following publications:

• Modern Monetary Theory by John Verdon (not yet in print)
• Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein
• Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness by Peter Godfrey-Smith
• The One by Heinrich Päs
• When Animals Dream by David Peña-Guzmán

Note: Link to semzyiri's Substack. 

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• I really believe that we carry the spirit of the land wherever we go. In the Western canon, they say that once you leave home, you can never return, but in the Indigenous canon, home never leaves you. 

I remember Sandra Laronde contacting me when I was running the Inter-Arts Office at Canada Council in early 2000 asking me where Red Sky Performance fits in the Council’s suite of programs and silos. Claude, you know, I combine indigenous dance, theatre, music, media and more but rarely the same way. 

The Council and Red Sky figured things out. I’ve always been amazed by Sandra’s imagination, spirit, entrepreneurship and her skills as a connector.

We’ve crossed paths many times of the years, on assessment committees, at festivals and at Indigenous arts gatherings. For example, I have fond memories of having been invited by a group of Indigenous women arts administrators and leaders, including Sandra, to gatherings where we sang, danced, held talking circles and listened to each other's needs and offerings and listened to the world around us. 

Our conversation on June 18, 2024 in her backyard in Tkaronto focused on her debut novel, ‘She Holds Up the Stars’, which was published by Annick Press in August 2022. I wanted to know more about this story of a young Indigenous girl searching for a sense of home who finds strength and courage in her gifts, her deepening connection to the land, and her own cultural awakening. Sandra admitted to me that it is mostly based on her own life and talks about the origins of this book during the episode this way:

• I wanted something that had humor and saw the world as a positive reflection of who we are as Indigenous people and as a sensitive kid. My world wasn't just focused on humans, it was really more spirit-centric. It was really about everything that is alive in the world, whether that be rivers and trees, or the wind or the lake, or a bird. All of these beings are alive and well. 

We also spoke about the launch of Aki Creators the night before our conversation, which is a portal of stories rooted in Indigenous wisdom, arts, and a shared love of the land.

I asked her, as I always do, about the role of art in the ecological crisis : 

• I think art helps us to connect or reconnect spiritually, emotionally and even intellectually to the environment and world around us and each other. Artists have a kind of an antenna to them where they're often foreseeing what's going to happen next. … Artists are the antenna of the world. Some of these movies that are sci-fi  movies or books have elements of truth in them and there’s warnings.

We also spoke about the use of artificial intelligence by indigenous artists ;

• The big concern in the AI space and in the digital space is that in the hands of very few people. Very few are prompt engineering. There’s a lot of big companies and the dominant voice in the digital sphere is still a white privileged male voice. Only 14% of women are in AI. As an Indigenous person, my mind wonders if this could potentially be another robust form of colonization if we don't get in there and sway, change and transform the narrative. You know, if we just leave it, I think this is a great peril and not only to us, but to the world.

There are many examples of artistic use of AI on Aki Creators. 

As we sipped a bit of rose wine in her backyard in Tkaronto, planes and helicopters passed by but we also heard and were present with the whisper of trees and birdsong as we talked about how we humans are a part of nature and how art helps us look up at the stars and wonder what was and could be.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• My dream with AI started with curiosity about how technology can extend to the boundaries of artistic expression. I was fascinated by the possibility of emerging traditional art and forms of traditional artistry to create something entirely new and engage my passion for innovation and to explore AI as tools to enhance my creative visions and bring artistic ideas to life in ways I could only dream or imagine. (Sean Caesar)

This is a special episode of the conscient podcast featuring a panel at  The Gathering Divergence Multi-Arts Festival & Conference Spring 2024 presented by Cultural Pluralism in the Arts Movement of Ontario (CPAMO) in collaboration with the Nia Centre for the Arts on on June 6, 2024 in Tkaronto,

This episode will begin with a talk by Alica Hall, Executive Director of the Nia Centre for the Arts, who spoke about the history of the building where the Nia Centre is situated in Tkaronto and of the history of the black arts community in Tkaronto and in Canada. 

After this, you'll hear presentations by artificial intelligence arts expert Sean Caesar (aka Tungz Twisted) and technology consultant Alex Hocevar, however because of the poor quality of the recording in a reverberant space, you’ll also find a summary of their presentations in the Transcript section of this episode.

For example, Sean observed that:

• We need to get on board to the table to discuss the implications of the diversity of representation and equitable inclusion. We're at a crossroads where it could be very detrimental to us, future forward. 

And Alex noted at the end of this presentation that :

• This should all be taken with a grain of salt until the technology in society gets to the point to say, what is real? What is realistic? How am I using this and am I getting the answers that will help me make a good positive decision?

Note: After Alica’s presentation and words of welcome by CPAMO curator of programming Kevin Ormsby I have re-recorded my introduction in order to have better audio quality.

*

Welcome to the 'Impact of Technology on the Practice of the Arts’ panel as part of Cultural Pluralism in the Arts Movement of Ontario (CPAMO) The Gathering Divergence Multi-Arts Festival & Conference Spring 2024.

A warm welcome to our audience here at the Nia Centre for the Arts in Tkaronto and also to those joining us online from across Canada and those listening offline on conscient podcast, episode 184.

My name is Claude Schryer. I’m a composer by training and I worked for 21 years at the Canada Council for the Arts where I ran the Inter-Arts Office and was an advisor. I recall, around 2008, when the NIA Centre For The Arts was created, how it was a challenge for the Council to find a home for this kind of multipurpose multidisciplinary arts organization, which I think has since been resolved, however I’m aware that many artists and arts organizations continue to struggle with finding the right category in our  arts funding systems.

For example, is artificial intelligence an art form, is it a method, is a tool? All of the above, none of the above? What criteria do we use to assess artificial art making? And it’s a bit ironic that the word artifice comes from artificium, which is Latin for "artistry, craftmanship, craft, craftiness, and cunning." That root also gave us the English word artificial. Artificium, in turn, developed from ars, the Latin root underlying the word art. 

I’m now retired from the public service and have become an art and climate activist. For example, I was co-founder of the Sectoral Climate Arts Leadership for the Emergency or SCALE. I also produce the conscient podcast about art and the ecological crisis, ainsi que sa version française, le balado conscient. 

I also invite you to consider the implications of art and technology in the context of the climate emergency and the ecological crisis, which a topic we explored at the 2021 fall edition of Gathering Divergence on the theme of ‘IBPOC arts in planetary renewal’ which you can listen to those conversations on conscient podcast episodes 92, 93 and 95.

So the theme of this year’s Gathering is Visioning Canada’s IBPOC Artistic Transformation: Navigating Beyond Precarity Towards Stability and this is the lens through which we will be exploring the impact of technology on the practice of art. 

Some of the questions our panelists will consider include

·   Does working with Artificial Intelligence in the arts lead to innovation, emergent practices and artistic transformation or does AI jeopardize creativity and lead to further precarity for artists? We might not know, yet…

·   In what ways are these new technologies, and in particular AI impacting the creation, dissemination and preservation of art? 

·   What relationships do artists need to create about and with AI and digital technology?

·   Who has access to the infrastructure and how it is being programmed and are all worldviews being included?

·   Are there integrative ways in which artists and arts organizations can continue to use digital technologies? What are some of the barriers?

·   In what ways are creative rights and revenue generation impacted by AI and generative technologies?

·   How is Al being used to make decisions that shape the trajectory of our lives, including creative control of artistic production?

·   Finally, what does all of this techno fantasy matter when our planet is on fire and we are facing imminent societal collapse due to ecological overshoot of our planet’s boundaries?

And before we go any further, I want to admit that I’m not that excited about artificial intelligence, even though I have used it in my artwork and in my podcasts. I’m personally more interested in the contributions of traditional knowledge keepers from around the world who have always known how-to live-in harmony with the earth and with all living beings.

This being said, there are reasons for hope. For example, I attended a presentation last week by Leasi Vanessa Lee Raymond of Concordia University about the Abundant Intelligences research program which explores how Indigenous Knowledges and Systems can expand and transform AI.

In a nutshell, this research project has published a position paper, Indigenous Protocol (IP) and Artificial Intelligence (AI), which is a starting place for those who want to design and create AI from an ethical position that centers Indigenous concerns.

Indigenous ways of knowing are rooted in distinct, sovereign territories across the planet. These extremely diverse landscapes and histories have influenced different communities and their discrete cultural protocols over time. 

The aim of the Abundant Intelligences project is to articulate a multiplicity of Indigenous knowledge systems and technological practices that can and should be brought to bear on the ‘question of AI.’

In other words, as proposed by UNESCO & MILA (Québec Artificial Intelligence Institute) in 2022 our challenge is ‘to develop Al systems that are human-centered, inclusive, ethical, sustainable, as well as upholding human rights and the rule of law’.

That's generally not how capitalism works but it’s something to aspire to. 

Another example of policy work on AI is the Disruption on the Horizon report by Policy Horizons Canada, which predicts the following disruption in relation to AI: 

• People cannot tell what is true and what is not : The information ecosystem is flooded with human- and Artificial Intelligence (AI)-generated content. Mis- and disinformation make it almost impossible to know what is fake or real. It is much harder to know what or who to trust. More powerful generative AI tools, declining trust in traditional knowledge sources, and algorithms designed for emotional engagement rather than factual reporting could increase distrust and social fragmentation. 

Emotional engagement is fertile territory for artists so we have a lot to think about. I think that’s enough background information for now. 

So it’s my great pleasure to facilitate this morning’s panel with two experts in art and artificial intelligence, Sean Caesar and Alex Hocevar, who I will introduce in a minute. I will also be inviting you in the audience, in person and online, to share your knowledge and experiences with technology because everyone has a story to tell about living in this mad and wonderful digital world, as citizens and as artists, 

I’ll ask Sean Caesar to speak first for about 15 minutes. Sean, aka Tungz Twisted, is producer of the Maybe Might Matter exhibition and owner of Frame Five Media and Second Shooter Sean. Showcasing the rapid advancement of artificial intelligence generated images, Sean’s work guides viewers through the progression of AI’s capabilities, sparking conversation about the creative explorations, possibilities and implications for the future of art along the way. Sean, the floor is yours.

(Sean Ceaser presentation)

I’d now like to invite Alex Hocevar to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame here at Gathering Divergence 2024. Alex who runs the Hocevar Group, a consulting agency focusing on digital business transformation here in Toronto.

(Alex Hocevar presentation)

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

World Listening Day takes place every year on July 18, which is also Canadian composer R. Murray Schafer’s birthday. The day is organized  by the World Listening Project and is dedicated to understanding the world and its natural environment, societies, and cultures through the practice of listening.

I have brought excerpts from 7 episodes from the 5th season of my conscient podcast that relate to the theme of the 2024 edition: ‘listening to the weave of time’. 

e157 sonic research group (part 1)

Hildegard Westerkamp

• The most interesting part to me is to discover what we're not listening to and why we are not doing that. I think it's wonderful that I've had the chance to learn this listening from so early on where you're trained to listen to the environment and at that time it was more about listening to the sounds of the environment and critiquing them, analyzing them, trying to understand them. To me that subject has widened hugely and really has to do about listening in general and trying to understand why we are listening to things and why we're not listening to things. And so it becomes a political, social, cultural question on every level and when a society has a crisis, it's often really good to observe what we really don't want to listen to and who we are listening to and how we combine that. And I feel we are in a stage of real crisis right now. And that's why this subject matter has taken on great significance now. 

e162 terri hron - an ecological lens

• I think as musicians we have particular concerns that perhaps looking at those through an ecological lens can be helpful. One of them is to think about the structures of funding which allow us to operate and to maybe reconsider them because they might change. And to be open to that change and to find solutions. And those solutions might be that we need to advocate for other kinds of support, if we still want to advocate for support, or to engage in other types of activities to make a living. Maybe that sounds a little bit defeatist, but I am trying to think in a very pragmatic way about what might be helpful and useful to create a greater sense of security and happiness in the future.
• I think the only thing that I can do is to try and live with as much integrity as I can and, and avoid participating in the things that I consider to be the least aligned with my values.

e170 sonic research group (part 2)

Milena Droumeva

• Soundwalking is always like magic. It is a magical experience. It is so simple, Hildi, as you said, and it’s as much about listening to sounds or listening to absences of sound. It's not very typical in our lives. We don't live the kinds of lives that require this kind of presence. And so it’s restorative for me and calms my spirit. But also it's such a reminder each and every time I do a soundwalk of the power of just simply listening and opening up that register with all of its span from appreciation to analytics, to criticality and to spirituality. 

Jacek Smolicki

• What differentiates us from machines is historical consciousness. Algorithms are operating using biased and skewed data without considering the context within which this data has emerged. Our role as educators is to be reminders of historical context that this whole machinery is digesting and using it to produce futures comes from.

Barry Truax 

• I'm still cautiously optimistic that we could still use those same techniques that we've used in the past to create a more creative, analytical and critical listener.

Hildegard Westerkamp

• A group can become a community even though we don't know each other, which creates an atmosphere of willingness to be open and grounded inside ourselves. We can get to that energetic place because we've slowed down.

Freya Zinonieff

• A music teacher at Columbia University was teaching John Cage’s 4’.33’’ and made a big fuss about how they couldn't teach that class because there was a loud protest outside the classroom and all she could hear was ‘from the river to the sea’. She said, okay, this just means we can't teach this now because it’s ruining 4’.33’’. We have to continue reminding ourselves and others that listening is a project and we need to learn together how to listen to what is actually there.

e174 julie andreyev - more-than-human creativity

• As an artist and educator, I see that this moment calls for a way of working through decolonization and forging a path of care. I like to think of this through multispecies communities so that, as humans, we're surrounded by more than human life, even in our urban environments. This path of care for our multi-species, communities that make up the neighborhood, the community, and ultimately the earth is where I see my call for research and practice. 

e175 sabine breitsameter - an aesthetic of care

• Listening can teach us to appreciate our environment in a critical sense, but also in a kind of admiration for it. If we admire something because we think it has a depth or it has a beauty or some interesting aspects, we want to keep it, we want to foster it.

e178 podium 2024 - what more can we sing and do?

Deantha Edmunds

• It is taking far too long for us to acknowledge the damage we have done to the world's water and to indigenous people and to take action : truth, reconciliation, change. Scientists have discovered that some whale songs actually evolve over time. It is my hope that the choirs who perform this work with me and all those who hear it will refuse to let what the whales are saying be lost in the ocean and will join their song in calling for respect and reciprocity.

Elise Naccarato

• Stay humble, keep listening and keep learning. That is how we will use choral music as a way to advocate and change the environmental crisis that we're facing

e180 mary edwards - capturing the beauty and terror of reality

• We're all going to be affected by the same outcome. When I went up to Svalbard (Norway), I went with the intention of also capturing the beauty and the terror of the reality of these changes and how they can be at once fascinating to listen to, but also devastating to the environment.
• Listening is an inherent part of what I do. It’s not just creating sound and music, but raising awareness. If we listen more intently to our environment, we can understand the health of our environment.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• I've been thinking a lot about the importance of connecting the value of the arts to everyday citizens and their own connection to creativity, whatever that might be. I think it's something we should be talking about now, not only within our communities and within the arts sector, but outside of as well : talking about the value of the arts to feelings of belonging and connection and the ability to build bridges that the arts uniquely have. 

- kelly langgard, june 5, 2024 imagining in public - cultural leadership in a changing world panel

I agree with Kelly Langgard that the arts have the capacity to build bridges and deepen feelings of belonging and the arts also have a lot of influence, and responsibility, in our changing world, as you are about to hear. 

So welcome to a special episode of the conscient podcast, brought to you by the Public Imagination Network in collaboration with Mass Culture - Mobilisation culturelle.

You’re about to hear a 90 minute conversation on the theme of ‘cultural leadership in a changing world’ that took place on June 5th 2024 on Zoom with about 100 participants from across Canada. 

But first, who is who. 

The conversationalists were Public Imagination Network Fellows Devyani Saltzman, Evalyn Parry and Shannon Litzenberger alongside Kelly Langgard, Director and CEO of the Toronto Arts Council and Michael Murray, CEO of the Ontario Arts Council | Conseil des arts de l'Ontario.

Now you might know that the Public Imagination Network is a group of leading artists and thinkers who are passionate about creative responses to issues of public governance and social justice and you can hear more about the origins of the Public Imagination Network, also known as PIN, in my March 28th, 2024 conversation with Shannon Litzenberger, e160 shannon litzenberger - a culture of collective thriving, of this podcast. 

This panel was co-hosted with Mass Culture - Mobilisation culturelle, which is an arts support organization that strives to harness the power of research to learn and generate new insights, enabling the arts community to be strategic, focused and adaptive. Mass Culture is led by Robin Sokoloski who was my guest on this podcast in episode 61 from 2021 and also will be my guest for a second conversation this summer so stay tuned for that. I suspect we will talk about… leadership, climate change, more than human beings and more.

So what is cultural leadership? Shannon Litzenberger offered this definition during the conversation:

• I think about leadership as our ability to respond generatively to what a moment is asking of us in service of collective thriving. So it's got a lot of layers to it… It's about our ability to respond. What are we responding to? How are we attuning to a moment? Are we just seeing what we're conditioned to see? Are we attuned to what's in the foreground : the arrangements in the background that are producing the condition that we're inside of? And are our decisions, are our responses, are they in service of collective thriving? To me, this is the big moment of relational turn that leadership needs to understand. 

And I think this is a good point of departure with an emphasis on whether we are 'in tune' with this moment.

To the organizers credit, this event was not a one-way conversation. The audience was invited to participate through a series of zoom chat storms. I had never done this before but it’s basically when comments and questions are sent at once at the end of a series of presentations.

It was quite overwhelming but a lot of fun to read such a rich array of options and responses all at once and you’ll hear during the episode quotes from comments and responses from the conversationalists.

You can also read the rich array of participant ‘chat’ comments at the end of the episode notes below. 

To make this recording easier to access, I’ve divided it into 6 parts, each divided by a soundscape composition from 1998 of mine called Au dernier vivant les biens.

1. 00:00 conscient podcast introduction and context
2. 8:49 Evalyn Parry, Shannon Litzenberger and Devyani Saltzman introduction
3. 19:28 What do we need to hold onto and leave behind?
4. 28:54 Practices of leadership : what new leadership capacities will support a transition away from a corporate, hyper-industrialized system?
5. 45:10 Flux, turmoil and the role of institutions : how do we stay in an ethical relationship to a world in distress?
6. 54:55 Questions and comments from the audience

To be honest my only critique of this conversation is that they did not speak directly about the climate emergency or the ecological crisis, which are the main areas of concern of this podcast however Evalyn Parry did note at the end of the session that we should have a separate session on this topic and interweave it into other conversations, which I believe is in the works. 

And I think it’s good to have multiple and contrasting conversations about these complex issues - be it leadership, capacity, social justice, societal collapse and so on - because they are all interconnected and all require our attention but maybe not all at once. 

So what I retained most specifically from this conversation on cultural leadership is that the arts not only have the capacity to build bridges and help us make connections and relations, but the arts also provide a positive vision of other worlds, other ways of being, while offering a reality check about our changing world. 

And dialogue, as well as listening, within the arts sector and beyond, are key to moving forward, so I would like to thank the organizers, conversationalists and participants in this session for sharing their wisdom and passion and I hope to do this again soon. 

Note: An edited version of the chat from this session is available here.  Please note that participants in this session have consented to have this summary of the chat shared as part of this podcast episode. Please do not quote this material without the permission of the author.

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026

• Whether or not we get to a complete and total collapse or we're looking at collapses of very specific systems for it…  Right now I'm concerned with modeling what we want on the other side as best as possible so that whether or not it's a person or a machine learning algorithm as artificial intelligence, when it's looking back on the things that is basing its future decisions on, that it’s not just the dominant systems that got us into this mess.

Ian Garrett is Producer for Mixed Reality Performance collective Toasterlab; and director of the Centre for Sustainable Practice in the Arts, a think tank on sustainability in arts and culture, as well as Associate Professor of Ecological Design for Performance at York University. He maintains a design practice focused on the integration of ecology, technology and scenography.

My first conversation with Ian was during e54 called empowering artists and took place by zoom on May 25, 2021. At the time we were both serving on the Mission Circle of SCALE but had been exchanging about art and sustainability for years. 

This time we met in person on Monday June 18, 2024 at Ian’s home in Toronto where he lives with wife Justine and their two dual citizens, Miles and Henrietta as their dog Maggie whom you’ll hear in the background once in a while. 

We talked about the many interconnections between his work as designer, producer, educator, and researcher in the field of sustainability in arts and culture as well as spoke of the challenges facing the art and climate movement in Canada.

It was especially interesting for me to revisit our 2021 conversation in part because of this statement by Ian that has stayed with me since that time, sometimes inspiring me, sometimes haunting me:

• I don't want to confuse the end of an ecologically unsustainable, untenable way of civilization working in this moment with a complete guarantee of extinction. There is a future. It may look very different and sometimes I think the inability to see exactly what that future is – and our plan for it - can be confused for there not being one. I'm sort of okay with that uncertainty, and in the meantime, all one can really do is the work to try and make whatever it ends up being more positive. There's a sense of biophilia about it.

There is clearly more uncertainty now than ever but as you’ll hear Ian does a lot of positive work for the benefit of the arts community and that we are best served to be both aware of our pain and grief while being fully engaged in action for a future we cannot yet see but is unfolding.

Ian recommends 

• Groundworks (2022) documentary about ‘restorying’ land in California (contact Ian to view)
• Antarctica by Kim Stanley Robinson
• Drilled podcast by Amy Westervelt (oil industry in Guyana)
• Outside In (new hampshire public radio) about social infrastructure, notably the 'Powerline' series
• In Too Deep by Rachel Kimbro

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Note : I'm currently 'pressing pause' and am not producing new content until further notice. 

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.

This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.

• I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.
• I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.
• Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.
• I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share together

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.  

Your feedback is always welcome at claude [at] conscient [dot] ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Thanks for listening. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on March 21, 2026