Conscious Paths

A very inspiring, honest, touching and mature talk with the outstanding Bansuri player from India, Milind Date, that surely will spark any student or lover of Indian music, connecting them to India and its magical music and learning paths.

Some of the main subjects covered in this interview conducted by Manish Vyas:

The relationship with the music Guru and the blessing of such invaluable guidance in the path of a student.

“At some point, I was thinking, what can I give to my Guru in return? I though a lot about it – I came to the conclusion that the best thing I could give him in return was to play the best as possible, because that was the only reason why he was teaching me. So that became very clear.” 

Key aspects and requirements to be a student of Indian music.

“I have practised eighteen, nineteen, twenty hours a day easily. Not once, not twice… many, many times. I would wake up at three in the morning. I have practised a lot. That entire inspiration came from my Guruji, Pandit Hariprasad Chaurasia.”

The importance of understanding Ragas (moods of the music based on sets of notes) and what they express.

“Every serious student of Indian classical music is a composer, because in our learning system, from day-one a student starts to create his own music.” 

A total different approach to the western music system. The depth of Indian music goes much beyond the technique and the music itself.

“The entire household of my Guruji kept me in the right direction. Right from the second class, I knew why I was going there.”

“If you learn Indian music, you need a lot of love towards the classical music of India and its thousands of years of tradition. You learn a lot of things besides music. It’s not just to pick up an instrument and make some sounds out of it.”

The tight relationship between spirituality, meditation and music.

“My way of meditation is through the sound: the purity of sound, the purity of the Raga. The spiritual connection is possible because of the purity of sound, purity of thoughts and purity of music. If that is achieved, you’re lucky.”  

Indian music in the West and the problem of cultural (mis)appropriation.

“When you’re learning Indian music without understanding the fundamentals of it, even if you are talented and can imitate or fake, it is going to mislead people. You should find a Guru –  youtube is not a Guru."

 
About:

Milind Date is a renowned musician from Pune, India. A Bansuri player and composer, who has grasped the essence of Indian culture through his art. Known as the ‘Virtuoso’ and a ‘Stage King’ for his immaculate Indian bamboo flute playing, Milind is one of the senior-most disciples of Bansuri legend, Pandit Hariprasad Chaurasia. Milind's roots are in Indian classical music, but he also plays compositions for films, devotional music, fusion, world music and jazz among other genres. He has released several albums of his own production, as well as he contributed to hundreds of other third-party projects.

Milind started learning Bansuri and Indian classical music when he was around fifteen years old. Soon after, he met Pandit Hariprasad Chaurasia from Mumbai, who became his Guru: a world-renowned name in the world of Indian classical music and Bansuri flute… one of the most amazing contemporary flute players in the world and of all times.

Thank you Milind for this wonderful contribution and inspiration!

Links:

webpage: www.milind.date

Bandcamp: milinddate.bandcamp.com

Song at the end of podcast: Govindam (Manish Vyas), Bansuri-flute by Milind Date

An enriching conversation for anyone interested in Indian music, for enjoyment, for personal learning or simply for cultural interest or curiosity about the  endless world of Indian music, which highly differs from western music, even in the most subtle aspects.

Palash Dholakia is a sincere student and professional musician of Indian vocal. He studied bachelor and masters in music at Saurashtra University and is disciple of Pandit Ajoy Chakrabarty (a classical vocalist, composer, lyricist and gurudev of the Patiala-Kasur gharana; considered to be one of the proverbial figures of Indian classical music.)

Palash breathed Indian music since he can remember, born in the state of Gujarat, he lived in a family where his ancestors were all deeply connected to classical music. He witnessed as a child his grandfather having conversations with Pandit Ravi Shankar, to whom he was very close. Through this early connection and exposure to refined sources of Indian music, he carries these sounds in his innermost being.

"WHATEVER I AM IN MUSIC, IS ONLY THROUGH THIS BEAUTY OF RAGA MUSIC. I FOUND A BEAUTIFUL WAY OF LIVING — MUSIC ALSO TAUGHT ME THE ART OF LIVING."

A tradition like no other.

We talked about the value for a musician to grow up in the atmosphere of Indian music, the vocal training, the learning attitude, the discipline of the learning, the blessing to find a Guru and the meaning of a Guru in one's path. One can feel that when one embodies a tradition, it is not an effort to communicate in such a clear, humble and competent way showing a total love and deep commitment on the chosen path.

"INDIAN MUSIC IS BASED ON SPONTANEITY, THAT'S WHY THERE'S NO SYLLABUS IN INDIAN MUSIC LEARNING.  THAT'S WHY THERE'S SUCH A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WESTERN AND EASTERN WAY OF LEARNING MUSIC... WE FOLLOW THE GURU-DISCIPLE TRADITION."

The role of a Guru.

The role of a Guru-disciple relationship is to develop oneself as a good human being and as a good musician. A Guru is a much larger scale than a teacher, that's why it is so hard to find a true Guru. A Guru gives you the right understanding.

"MUSIC WILL DEVELOP YOU AS A SIMPLE BEING, BECAUSE BY SEEING THE VASTNESS OF THIS MUSIC WE SEE HOW SMALL WE ARE IN FRONT OF IT. THE ULTIMATE PATH IN INDIAN MUSIC IS TO REACH THAT DIVINITY."

About Mantras presented with music.

Mantras, which are very precious and are from India, need Indian music training and language pronunciation in order to catch the original, authentic sound. Truthfulness is key.

Summary of themes covered in the talk.

• the attitude of simplicity and gratitude
• Indian music learning requires to go inwards
• it's not about performing and entertainment
• being a performer is not a goal but a by-product
• this is a personal journey and it takes time
• commiting to a Guru with blind trust
• the wonder and power of ragas
• mantra singing requires proper learning of Indian music first
• nothing in this path is about fame, glamour and success
• the importance of developing both the learning and sharing skills

Palash finsihes the interview singing a brief piece in Raag Gunkali, a raag based on Bhairav Thaat.

"GOING DEEP INTO ONESELF ONE CAN EXPLORE THE MUSIC WITH MUCH MORE DEPTH" —Palash Dholakia

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Links:
facebook: Palash Dholakia | Facebook
instagram: @palashdholakia

podcasts Manish Vyas : manishvyas.com/podcast

Ram and Sonali Banerjee are originally from India living in England and since the last seven years they have been organising the World Yoga Festival in the outskirts of London, which has been getting more and more local and international response, having become a referent in the true world of Yoga in the west.

Initially they started the project just knowing that Europe needed an authentic Yoga Festival presentation, and that's how the first festival happened in the summer of 2016 and subsequent years, having brought thousands of people together along these years in a green field site with beautiful nature right outside London. The festival happens each year in the summer, towards end of July and lasts for four days.

"The totality of Yoga, that is what we want to bring." Ram

What they envision to bring to the festival is a glimpse of the authentic nature of Yoga, which is not about "stretching and excercising" as often understood in the west; they have taken a vision in the eight limbs of Yoga considering all the aspects, in order to keep the lineage transparent and true.

The activities range from asana, pranayam, meditation, yogic techniques, use of sound - until Advait Vedanta and Sanskrit lessons... and much more. They also keep the true flavour of the yogic path from India by serving wonderful Indian and other vegetarian food and keeping the festival away from alchohol. This allows them to create a beautiful energy and atmosphere for any Yoga practitioner, for a seeker, or for anyone interested in the sciences from India for the wellness of the body-mind system. The musical programs are also a way to bring an atmosphere of celebration and joy to the gathering.

Manish Vyas will be present also with his band offering a Mantra - Kirtan concert in the evening of July 29, 2022 plus a Naad Yoga Workshop next morning. That is how in this opportunity, Manish is interviewing the founders of this project, to share with the world their incredible vision.

"In Yoga, you don't have to re-invent a lot - you just have to maintain it, continue it, keep the authenticity and everything will be fine." Ram

If you are interested in the path of Yoga, wherever you are in the world and wherever you are in the path, there will be something for that (and the next step beyond) waiting for you at this unique  festival.

+ Information about the festival Summer-2022: World Yoga Festival |Berkshire |United Kingdom

Transcription of the Interview in our Blog

Youtube video

Music from India is a path of eternal learning. In this path the concept of "continuously learning" is one of the key aspects to understand from the beginning, before undertaking this magic journey. This is so because in Indian music we always remain a student, we never stop learning.

Manish talks about the journey of learning music from India, including singing, instruments, its language, Mantra singing, and many other important dimensions:

- the cultural input where the student will also be representing a whole tradition behind the teaching
- the importance of the strong foundation in the sense that music from India follows the lineage system, therefore, the main ingredient should be love: doing it for the love of it and nothing else; this love will automatically generate respect
- the key ingredients in learning arts and music from India are trust and patience
- the connection with the essence of this music can only be learned from a proper trained teacher and experienced musician; making the source of learning the first key aspect of the process

How the learning of music happens in India and how it happens in the West is really "East and West", meaning completely opposite in the system and in the approach. Though this gap will never meet, and that is ok, it is important that the student at least becomes aware of the cultural aspect of India: this will help the process of learning in the right direction and with the right attititude.

When one is learning music in India, one is breathing the music in all aspects and situations that emerge in the surroundings. Meaning, we breath music! ...through the rhythm of the streets, the colors, the sounds, the energy. This should try to be incorporated as much as possible for people learning around the world who are not in the atmosphere of India. Remaining in the "mahol" of music, in the atmosphere of music is one of the key aspects of learning.

And last but not least, knowing and remembering that in India we are disciples forever. No Pandit, Ustad, Master, Guru or music genius from India will ever say "I am a master", "I have arrived." And their lies its beauty, its power, its heritage.

More details, videos and information about learning music from India with Manish Vyas: www.manishvyas.com/lessons

For every person in India, Shiva means a lot — and Manish is not an exception. That is why he has worked on a very special album exclusively for Lord Shiva, which will be his 2021 yearly release. Powerful yet meditative vibrations: ADIYOGI, publishing worldwide on December 11, 2021. A ten track CD of almost seventy minutes.

The album in the praise of Shiva features beautiful texts, verses and poetries praising His presence, His raw beauty, His wisdom, His amazing being. “As far as Sanatan Dharma is concerned there are thousands of mantras and other prayers and texts written in Sanskrit dedicated to Shiva,” explains Manish.

The music composed for these amazing ancient texts displays different ragas carefully chosen to fulfill the energy required; as well as the singing which must be presented with perfect application of the Sanskrit language.

Shiva also represents various dimensions of energy, so this project also had to contemplate how to bring or reflect all those multi-dimensional aspects of Shiva in the music, and this was somewhat challenging: “Somewhere the energy of Shiva kept on guiding me and giving me the right path along the creative process of this project…” says Manish.

“Shiva is joy, celebration, bliss… and at the same time Shiva is the destroyer of the false and the unnecessary. Shiva has contributed so much to the spiritual life of any seeker, that no matter how much we may offer our gratitude, it’s never enough.”

The intention behind this work is to express that gratitude and at the same time connect the listener to the energy of Shiva and its enlightening and eternal essence of truth.

Om Namah Shivay

www.manishvyas.com/shiva

In the third and final episode of this series of dialogues with the great Gundecha Brothers, they have shared their insights about the magic and power of Sanskrit language and how it can become a medium to a cosmic experience, whether by speaking it or by listening to it.

As far as Sanskrit, Mantra, Indian music or any ancient tradition is concerned, they also talked about the importance of learning them from an authentic source, so that one can go deeper into the vast world and wisdom of these ancient cultures.

And finally they graced and beautified the end of this podcast with a heartfelt devotional song in Raga Shiva-Ranjani.


First interview https://www.buzzsprout.com/1504945/8875578 
Second interview https://www.buzzsprout.com/1504945/8805504 

Following the previous interview with Gundecha Brothers, who dedicated their lives to continuing this style of music, we present the part II of the talk, where among other interesting insights, the main topics covered are:

The importance of Sanskrit and the connection between Dhrupad and this language, the three notes used in the Vedic chanting style, and the difference between mantra chanting and mantra singing.

Dhrupad claims the distinction of being the oldest form of Indian Classical music heard today, its origin can be traced back to the chanting of Vedic hymns and mantras. The birth of Dhrupad as we know it today coincided with the Bhakti movement and consequently was more devotional in nature. It was rendered in temples facing the the Divinity full of devotion and bhaav, this was the genesis of what became known as Haveli Dhrupad/Sangeet.

Dhrupad is a body of spiritual and mystical knowledge to be practiced with devotion (Bhakthi) and dedication (Shraddha). It is primarily an act of submission to one's inner spirit, not a tool for entertainment.

The Gundecha Brothers  from Ujjain, India are classical vocalists of the Dhrupad genre of the Dagar Vani (a tradition of classical Dhrupad of 20 generations tracking back to Swami Haridas.) From 1985 to 2019 the duo consisted of brothers Umakant Gundecha and Ramakant Gundecha and were awarded the Padma Sri for art for 2012. Following the death of Ramakant Gundecha in 2019, his son Anant began to perform with Umakant in the Gundecha Bandhu. They also run a Dhrupad institute outside Bhopal, India, where they teach students from all over the world according to the guru–shishya tradition, or parampara ("lineage"), denoting a succession of teachers and disciples.

"Dhrupad is the search of the ultimate, the search for a true sound, the eternal sound, the sound of the cosmos. Dhrupad is Nada Yoga - the yoga of sound. It is the best way to get yourself into a calm, peaceful state of mind." Umakant Gundecha

"In Dhrupad, we sing the notes in their pure form. Both the performers as well as the listeners experience the life energy in these notes. Dhrupad is therefore really about going deep into the essence of everything, including oneself. You can see yourself through Dhrupad." Ramakant Gundecha

In the series of the three podcasts from a meeting with one of the most well-known Dhrupad singers from India namely GUNDECHA BROTHERS, the first part covers the insights about the connection between Dhrupad and Naad Yoga or Yoga of Sound, as well as Dhrupad’s approach towards the concept of BHAVA or expression and RASA or flavor. In India we say, “If it’s not touching your soul, it’s not music,” and this music has this intrinsic power.

This very statement describes the potential of this music from India which has been one of the most ancient forms of music. It was traditionally performed only in temples, as an offering to the deities. That is why even now, the sounds and vibrations of Dhrupad are able to take a listener into a very deep state of silence and serenity.

“The ultimate goal of Dhrupad is to reach a state of thoughtlessness.” Umakant Gundecha

Dhrupad is said to be the oldest existing form of North Indian classical music and it has continued due to the persistence and dedication of different masters who have passed it from generation to generation along the centuries.

Due to its strict adherence to purity, learning Dhrupad is very difficult. It takes years of rigorous and painstaking practice, involving many hours - eight or more - of singing everyday, before a Dhrupad student can reach a stage when he will be ready to perform competently. These early years of total devotion to learning also mean total financial dependence, as the student does not have the time to earn a living. In the past, the teacher took care of the needs of students, so that they could commit themselves completely to the study of music. 


You can also watch part of the talk in Youtube : https://youtu.be/8_s-SiLOjkU

At the beginning, Yoga was not written down anywhere, the teachings were passed by the Guru to a disciple personally. The first books where Yoga is mentioned were the ancient Tantras and later the Vedas, then the Upanishads expanded deeper about it. Based on all this, much later Patanjali wrote the Yoga Sutras (in Sanskrit) as an eight-fold path: yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi.

Therefore, the meaning of yoga and the path of yoga is not what frequently many think when relating it only to exercise, stretching, bending, breathing practices, or asana. It is so much more than that!

The science of Yoga applies itself to all aspects of life. Yoga means choosing a lifestyle of excellence and awareness in everything that we do and live according to that. So ideally, it should to be understood in this direction, in order to focus on this path with an earnest approach and to benefit from it beyond the aspects of the physical plane which are only temporary and worldly in nature. The path of Yoga as any other spiritual path in India is to awaken and eventually come to the realization that we are not the body, so too much focus on the body would defeat its own purpose.

The so called 'modernization' does not justify the disappearance of the key and fundamental aspects of Yoga and its nature -- otherwise it would not be Yoga, but something else.

This time Manish is interviewing Arpit Agrawal, an experienced Yoga teacher from Rishikesh India who studied in the traditional Bihar School of Yoga, discussing different aspects of Yoga and Yoga learning, which give a clear scenario of the vastness and richness of this tradition.

The interview also includes clarifications about types of yoga which have traditionally been part of the true yogic path since ancient times, as well as certain yoga styles which have developed or become popular in the west which are not truly reflecting the real Yoga tradition. One of these is 'Kundalini Yoga'. Although kundalini yoga practices exists in India, they have truly little to do with what became so popular in the USA and then was adopted around the world. That practice is honestly not the real tradition with the roots in our Indian Yoga heritage, and each practitioner should at least have the right to know this, how it developed, where it came from and which practices are authentic and which ones are not, as many styles had been basically developed mainly for yoga-commercialization, packaged in an attractive way to catch followers attention. It is ok if one practices that if one likes it, but one should know what is what.

We thank Arpit so much for this interesting and clarifying interview, where we can easily distinguish the pillars on this path, and understand the basis of this amazing practice of Yoga, with roots in ancient India and widely adopted by now in almost each corner of the world.

"Asana is for sure important, to keep yourself healthy. And we need some kind of flexibility as well, as we say the higher purpose of yoga (asana) is to sit in meditation for longer time, and those things come by the yoga asana. So it’s important only for that purpose. But yoga asana is only one limb of yoga, it’s not everything. Yoga tells you how to live, how to eat, how to walk, how to practice… everything comes from yoga. It’s like developing the awareness on how to do any action." Arpit Agrawal



About Arpit :
Sri Yoga Ashram, Rishikesh @yogawitharpit / www.sriyogaashram.com

This podcast is also transcribed in our blog, you can read it here: https://www.manishvyas.ch/post/_yoga 

watch related youtube video: https://youtu.be/qRmKJ_nFyLQ 

Manish takes us through the beautiful journey of sacred music from India with interesting explanations and a variety of songs to help us understand the vast spectrum of music from India: "We have traditions that beyond being learnt, they are carried in the blood since many, many generations, by families and musicians who have grown in that atmosphere of devotion and music, besides a deep connection and love for these traditions. Specially the most ancient the tradition, the deeper roots it has and the more one has to access the right source, if interested in connecting to them."

India has always kept music as a way to connect to the divine, and ultimately to oneself.  Songs and poetries have been written since millennia by rishis and enlightened ones, where wisdom was combined with music, raising the potential to penetrate the listener connecting him/her with the meaning of those sacred verses, of the ultimate wisdom. 

It is important to know what is what and how to approach the diverse styles of music from India. That is why I always emphasize that not everything which comes from the India is a mantra and some people who don't know the language and the science of mantra get confused very easily. There are chalisas, shlokas, strotras, sahasranaams, mantras, kavach, bhajans, shabad, kirtan, etc. And the ability to distinguish is key to know what is what, to honor this ancient tradition from India, and for a better understanding of our culture, for those interested in it  and for a successful practice.

Music Credits briefly played as examples in the Podcast, by order of appearance:

Aham Brahmasmi - Manish Vyas
Shloka - Ketan Patwardhan
Stotra - Manish Vyas
Surya Sahasranaam - Pt. Rattanmohan Sharma
Guru Ramdas, Gurbani - Manish Vyas
Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha, mantra - Manish Vyas
Durga Saptashati - Amkitkumar Pandey
Tumi Bhaja re Mana, bhajan - Manish Vyas
Shabad Gurbani - Bhai Gagandeep Singh
Kabir bhajan - Pt. Kumar Gandharva
Sufi Qawwali - U. Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan
Jaya Govinda Hare, kirtan - Manish Vyas

www.manishvyas.com