Contact Center Show

Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not "broken" but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change.

Core Themes

• The Suffering Economy of Customer Service:
  When service is universally bad across industries, it's systemic. Incentives—not incompetence—drive outcomes.

• Why This Is a "How Dare You" Book:
  The indictment is aimed squarely at executives who treat service as a cost center while overfunding marketing narratives.

• Marketing Replaced Service as Trust Mechanism:
  Historically, service was marketing. Industrialized marketing severed that link, allowing companies to tolerate bad service and buy growth instead.

• Metrics That Poison Service:
  Deflection, containment, and avoidance KPIs reward companies for not talking to customers—while punishing leaders who try to deliver what customers actually want.

• Wait Times Are Engineered:
  Hold times are budgeted, modeled, and accepted. They are designed friction, not operational accidents.

• AI as Distance, Not Salvation:
  AI is currently deployed to protect companies from customers, not customers from friction. It scales avoidance unless incentives change.

• Executives Don't Experience Their Own Service:
  Many leaders despise customer service—just not their own. Forcing executives to call their own 1-800 numbers is revelatory and uncomfortable.

• The Revolt Is Consumer-Led:
  Change will not come from CX professionals alone. It comes when consumers punish bad service with their wallets and reward companies that respect their time.

Notable Moments

• The opening story of the 1750 BC clay tablet complaint—the first recorded customer service grievance—reads like a modern Amazon review.

• The Chipotle refund anecdote exposes time theft: hours of customer labor to recover trivial amounts of money.

• The contrast between automation done for customers versus automation used to avoid them.

Practical Takeaways

• For Consumers:
  Vote with your wallet. Pay slightly more. Wait one more day. Call customer service before you buy big-ticket items.

• For Service Leaders:
  If your CEO doesn't believe in service as value creation, your job is to change their mind—or change jobs. Data plus customer stories are the leverage.

• For Executives:
  Service is deferred revenue protection. Treating it purely as cost is strategic malpractice.

Resources Mentioned

• Book: HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service — And the Revolt That's Long Overdue

• Signed Copies & Tools: waitingforservice.com

  • Consumer scripts

  • Cancellation guides

  • Practitioner playbooks

  • No email required

 

Summary

The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales.

 

 

Takeaways

AI can enhance customer engagement in sales.
The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data.
AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency.
Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs.
Data-driven insights can lead to better sales outcomes.
AI can make sales calls faster and smarter.
The role of AI is to support, not replace, sales personnel.
Understanding customer needs is crucial in sales.
AI tools should be designed to assist sales processes.
The future of sales lies in the integration of technology and human touch.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes.

Takeaways

there's three levels of value that contact centers create
Level one is efficiency
customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job
it's the strategic insight that AI can provide
it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing
Here's an opportunity to improve products and services
AI doesn't have to be perfect to provide value
Strategic insights can drive business improvements
Understanding trends is crucial for growth
Contact centers play a vital role in customer experience

Titles

Unlocking Value in Contact Centers
The Role of AI in Customer Service

Sound bites

"Level one is efficiency"
"customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job"
"it's the strategic insight that AI can provide"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Contact Center Show
00:27 AI and Its Impact on Customer Interactions
00:31 Future Jobs in the Contact Center Industry

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements

The Power of Language:

• Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
• Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
• Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
• Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception

Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations

The Alignment Problem:

• CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
• Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
• Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"

The Pilot Program Strategy:

• Start small before asking for big budgets
• Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
• Use success to rally and align different areas of the company

Real Example - CX Day Success:

• Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
• Started small despite skepticism
• Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure

Rethinking CX Metrics

Beyond Traditional Measurements:

• NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
• "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
• New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint

The Emotional Impact:

• Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
• Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
• Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
• Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes

The Four Rs of CX Impact:

• Revenue
• Retention
• Reputation
• Referrals

The Future of Contact Centers

Human + AI Integration:

• Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
• The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
• Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams

The Contact Center Superpower:

• Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
• This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
• Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more

Words Matter in the AI Era:

• Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
• "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
• Naming and framing still matters

The Power of Customer Voice

The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.

• The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
• The CEO walked out during the video
• Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
• Customer voice changed the company's trajectory

The Validation Imperative:

• Internal perspective isn't enough
• Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
• Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
• Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter

The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge

When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.

Notable Stories

The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"

Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.

Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.

Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders

1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience
2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements
3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment
4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent
5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough
6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers
7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly
8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs

Episode Summary

Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.

 

 

Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos)
Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa
Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor

Guest Background

• Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background
• Surveys audiences and writes research reports
• Has "front row seat" to industry transformation
• Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey

About the State of the Contact Center Report

• Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals
• Covers multiple verticals including:
  • Training and skills
  • Compensation and salary
  • Technology use
  • Leadership perceptions
  • Strategy
• Tracks year-over-year progress
• Recent additions include AI and workforce training questions

Key Surprising Findings 1. Contact Centers as Strategic Intelligence Hubs

• Major shift: Contact centers increasingly viewed as "strategic customer intelligence hubs" rather than cost centers
• Described as "customer intelligence and nervous system"
• No other department has closer customer proximity or more customer data
• C-suite now acknowledges value with direct data funnels informing executive decisions

2. AI Perceptions and Impact

• 72% believe AI will transform roles, not replace them
• Only ~25% think AI will lead to workforce reductions
• AI expected to handle "level one, rote, monotonous, repetitive work"
• Agents will focus on:
  • Complex needs and edge cases
  • Soft skills: empathy, communication, problem solving, critical thinking
• 90% of surveyed leaders believe humans necessary as AI overseers
• Gartner prediction: 40% of agentic AI projects will fail by 2027 (often due to neglecting human oversight)

Agent Evolution

• Agents increasingly viewed as:
  • Consultants
  • Solutions architects
  • Higher-tier problem solvers
  • "White glove service" providers
• Rising expectations due to AI support
• Agents becoming intelligence providers to C-suite
• More analytical roles: identifying trends, patterns, creating intelligent summaries

Top AI Implementation Concerns

1. Customer resistance (top concern)
2. Data accuracy
3. Data privacy and security
4. Lack of proper AI governance

Workforce and Quality Management Insights Workforce Models (Nearly Equal Three-Way Split)

• In-office full time
• Hybrid
• Fully remote
• Models remain transitional and subject to change
• Increased scheduling flexibility critical for retention

Quality Focus Shift

• Traditional metrics: CSAT, utilization, average handle time
• New priority: Agent experience rising in importance
• Recognition that internal customer experience drives external customer experience

Customer Satisfaction Challenges

• Current CSAT surveys often lack nuance
• Can't distinguish between:
  • Poor agent performance vs. poor company policy
  • Single bad experience vs. overall satisfaction
• Need for more qualitative feedback mechanisms
• "Watermelon effect": High metrics but poor actual experience

Channel Evolution

• Significant jump from multi-channel to omni-channel implementation
• Growth in non-traditional channels:
  • Social media
  • SMS/text
  • Video
• Technology enabling unified customer history across channels

Key Takeaways

• Successful organizations treat contact centers as "valuable strategic sources of intelligence"
• Organizations not recognizing this value are "dropping the ball" and will "see the consequences"
• Contact centers serve as the "hub" and "nervous system" reaching everywhere in the organization
• When no one knows the answer, they turn to the contact center

Notable Quotes

• "If your agents aren't excited about AI, then you actually haven't communicated to them how enriching and transforming it could be"
• "Agents are increasingly going to play a role where they are the eyes and the ears... providing the intelligence back to the C-suite"
• Contact centers as "the strongest data... the hub... the nervous system that reaches in everywhere else"

Summary

In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers.

Takeaways

Contact centers are perceived as becoming simpler, but they are actually becoming more complex.
Sophistication in processes can lead to increased complexity.
There is a challenge in addressing the complexity of contact centers.
Many organizations are still reliant on outdated tools like Excel.
Using lead metrics can help prevent agent burnout.
Improving metrics can reduce friction with customers.
The conversation highlights the need for modernization in contact center operations.
Understanding complexity is crucial for effective management.
Agent burnout is a significant issue in the industry.
A shift in metrics is necessary for better outcomes.

Sound Bites

"Sophistication also brings complexity."
"We are still for the most part stuck in Excel."
"Lead metrics could stop agent burnout."

Live from Orlando at ICMI Expo 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolution of contact centers, the impact of CRM systems like Salesforce, and the role of AI in enhancing agent performance. They reflect on the historical context of CRM, the challenges faced by agents, and the future of customer service technology, particularly focusing on the Agent Force initiative. The discussion also touches on the sentiment within the Salesforce community and the potential for new competitors in the market.

 

Takeaways

Salesforce has become a dominant player in the CRM space.
The evolution of contact centers has been significant over the years.
AI can enhance agent performance rather than replace them.
Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective service.
The Agent Force initiative aims to improve agent capabilities.
There is a negative sentiment towards Salesforce in the contact center community.
The cost of building technology is decreasing, making competition more feasible.
AI's role in customer service is still evolving and needs to focus on agents.
Salesforce must communicate its value to agents to maintain loyalty.
The future of customer service technology is uncertain but full of potential.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context Setting
01:29 The Evolution of CRM and Contact Centers
06:05 Current Trends in Salesforce and AI
11:13 Agent Force and the Future of Customer Service
15:54 Prognosis for Salesforce and the Industry

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricate relationship between marketing and call center operations, particularly during high-demand periods like holidays. They share personal anecdotes about challenges faced in fulfilling customer orders due to marketing miscommunications and emphasize the importance of building strong relationships between marketing and contact center teams. The discussion highlights the need for effective communication, data sharing, and collaboration to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency.

 

Takeaways

The holiday season can create significant challenges in call center operations.
Marketing decisions can directly impact call center workload and customer satisfaction.
Building relationships with marketing teams is crucial for effective communication.
Data sharing between marketing and contact centers can improve customer service.
Understanding operational limitations is essential for marketing strategies.
Regular meetings between marketing and contact center teams can foster collaboration.
Customer feedback is valuable for shaping marketing strategies.
Effective communication can prevent misunderstandings and operational chaos.
A cooperative approach can lead to better resource allocation and planning.
Engaging with customers directly can provide insights that benefit marketing efforts.

 

Summary:
For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong?

Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can turn raw data into persuasive narratives that actually secure budget, influence the C-suite, and prove value.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why the "profit center" debate hasn't gone away—and probably won't.

• The crucial difference between value creation and revenue generation.

• How marketing gets credit (and budget) despite spending every dollar they touch.

• Why endless Excel spreadsheets put executives to sleep—and what to do instead.

• The art of translating metrics into stories that CFOs and CEOs actually care about.

• Practical steps for contact center leaders to elevate their influence in the boardroom.

Key Quotes:

• "The CFO decides what's a cost center and what's a revenue center. We are just bad at telling our story." – Amas

• "People don't remember your statistics. They remember your stories." – Bob

• "Marketing spends money all day, but they've convinced the world they're indispensable. We should learn from that." – Amas

Episode Highlights:

• (01:00) Revisiting the old debate: profit center vs. cost center.

• (02:30) Why marketing gets treated differently—and why service leaders should care.

• (04:30) The deadly sin of sending executives binders of metrics.

• (06:00) How to tell stories executives will remember—and fund.

• (09:00) Using customer stories to anchor your data.

• (11:30) Why your relationship with marketing and the CFO matters most.

• (12:45) Teaser: Amas & Bob will be recording LIVE at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, Oct 27–30.

Resources & Links:

• Amas's blog post: "Contact Centers Are Not Revenue Centers" [link]

• Learn more about the ICMI Contact Center Expo