Ross sits down with Josh Spilker, Content Marketing & SEO Lead at AirOps, to unpack the rise of the content engineer — what it means, why it matters, and how it’s reshaping SEO and content operations.

They dive into Ryan Law’s critique, hybrid-AI workflows, org-chart ownership, automation opportunities, and why Josh believes AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy.

Plus: the “context librarian” concept, content refresh automation, spotting slipping queries, using multiple models together, and avoiding low-quality AI traps.

Show Notes:

0:08 – What is a “content engineer” and why the role is emerging

1:17 – How content engineering evolved from early UX concepts

2:13 – Who fits best in this role: writers, SEOs, or automation pros?

3:39 – Ryan Law’s critique: “I wouldn’t hire a content engineer”

4:51 – Internal linking as a powerful semi-automated workflow

5:56 – From manual outlines to AI-assisted research and briefs

6:48 – Balancing AI workflows and human-led quality control

7:24 – Why “Director of Automation” might better describe the role

8:35 – Who should lead content automation inside organizations

9:15 – AI text generation vs. hybrid workflows: what’s really working

10:38 – The limits of pure AI content and why oversight matters

11:19 – How AirOps customers use hybrid models for scale

12:01 – Using multiple models (ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity) together

13:02 – The “7% of AI pages” debate and Patrick Stox’s counter-data

14:19 – How editorial standards and compliance shape AI adoption

15:23 – “AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy”

16:15 – Refresh workflows: detecting pages and queries that slip

17:18 – Where content engineers fit in the org chart today

18:16 – The rise of the “context librarian” for brand knowledge bases

19:19 – Combining brand governance with AI-driven workflows

20:21 – How automation can unify voice and style across teams

21:32 – Why AI helps close the creative gap faster, not replace writers

22:29 – Teaching non-engineers to think like product builders

23:19 – Breaking down creative processes into repeatable systems

24:07 – Turning everyday editorial routines into structured workflows

25:08 – Automating meeting summaries and reporting emails

26:12 – Using AI to surface key quotes and podcast clip highlights

27:17 – “Transformation content”: repurposing, summarizing, clipping

28:13 – AirOps’ content strategy: optimization, refresh, iteration

29:04 – Refresh workflows tied to GSC data and ranking drops

30:33 – Risks of shallow “freshness updates” and engagement metrics

31:47 – How informed SEOs make the best use of AirOps workflows

32:07 – Why fundamentals matter before scaling with AI tools

33:02 – Barry Bonds analogy: AI only helps pros with solid foundations

34:15 – Automating backlink outreach with contextual relevance

35:34 – Why personalization still wins over high-volume outreach

36:17 – The balance between automation and editorial craft

37:11 – Where to find Josh’s webinars, reports, and AirOps resources

Josh Spilker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshspilker

AirOps: https://www.airops.com

AirOps Webinars: https://www.airops.com/categories/events

Ahrefs Post (Ryan Law): https://ahrefs.com/blog/i-wouldnt-hire-a-content-engineer

Patrick Stox Response: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/patrickstox_im-sure-youre-all-seeing-the-study-saying-activity-7385017156213788672-5srr

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#contentmarketing

Caroline Gilbert — Director of Content & Editorial at Angi — joins Ross Hudgens to explore how one of the largest home-services brands is using AI to scale, transform, and optimize content operations.

They discuss how Caroline’s team doubled Angi’s content library to 12,000+ articles, how AI helps maintain top-funnel visibility amid shifting search behaviors, and the nuanced balance between human expertise and generative automation.

Caroline breaks down the three pillars of Angi’s AI framework — generation, transformation, and operations — and how they’ve automated everything from brief creation to CMS ingestion while keeping a strong editorial voice.

Plus: lessons learned from early AI missteps, real examples of disclosure testing, and how AI is reshaping both content creation and search behavior itself.

Show Notes

0:08 – From cost guides to “everything home”: expanding Angi’s library

1:00 – Moving up-funnel: education, troubleshooting, light DIY, and when to hire

2:14 – Top-funnel ROI drops as AI overviews change search behavior

2:56 – Why Angi adopts gen-AI: maintain helpful content without heavy human lift

3:27 – Staying visible where intent is early but brand value matters

4:45 – Content becomes commodity: deciding where humans add unique value

5:55 – Evergreen “how-to” steps vs. human nuance (risks, gotchas, pro POV)

7:18 – How AI is used: full refreshes, component injections, data-driven sizing

9:01 – The real trade-off: human time vs. technology time

9:26 – Scale context: 5k → 12k pages (growth mostly human-led)

9:41 – Three pillars: generation, transformation, operations

10:38 – Ops wins: briefs, automated edits/QA, CMS ingestion, minutes → hours

12:21 – Designers focus on UX polish when ingestion is 98% done

12:58 – Where AI struggled: risky DIY (HVAC/roofing), brand POV, nuance

15:02 – Licensing content is messy (state/county rules): tighter human review

17:19 – Design: generate/transform/streamline + “vibe coding” prototypes

20:18 – Pilot first: small cohorts, guardrails, measure engagement/conversions

21:22 – Disclosure tests: placement/tone matter; users split ~50/50 on trust

25:53 – “Tools, time, or talent”: when to push pro hire messaging

27:39 – Differentiators: pro interviews + Angi’s original homeowner cost data

28:07 – AI helps editors analyze like analysts; humans shape the story

29:19 – Looking ahead: AI shifting search from answers to utilities/experiences

Show Links

Caroline Gilbert on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-gilbert-41463518/

Angi: https://www.angi.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

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#contentmarketing

Matt Bowers — SEO and LLM consultant, formerly of Zapier and Zillow — joins Ross Hudgens for a deep dive into how AI is transforming programmatic SEO.

They explore what’s working and what’s not for large-scale, AI-assisted content strategies — from full-AI “use-case” pages to hybrid human workflows. Matt breaks down examples of successful AI programmatic sites, the pitfalls of duplicate content, and the emerging “information gain” paradigm shaping rankings post-2024.

They also discuss the limits of AI in UX-driven verticals, personalization opportunities, long-tail visibility in LLMs like ChatGPT, and how data-driven scaling can still give human SEOs a competitive edge.

Plus: the rise and fall of Greg.app, the future of personalization, Zillow’s “Project Boggle,” and practical tools like Builder.io, Strapi, and AirOps that power modern programmatic builds.

Show Notes

0:08 – Matt returns for round two: programmatic SEO meets AI

1:00 – Are “pure AI” sites actually winning? What’s working and what’s not

2:06 – Inside a million-visit-per-month AI programmatic play

3:15 – Structuring AI content around real use cases, not blog posts

4:22 – Why old GPT-3.5 copy can still rank — and the “don’t mess with success” mantra

5:03 – Dwell time as a differentiator: the “product as content” advantage

6:13 – How AI copy helps with indexing and duplicate-content differentiation

7:17 – Why Google probably isn’t detecting AI directly and what it does instead

8:11 – The “high-DR arbitrage” era of AI content — and why it’s fading

10:11 – Why most public AI case studies stay anonymous

11:16 – Case study: Greg.app — AI-generated plant care pages done right

12:03 – How prompt engineering + UX elevate AI content

13:13 – Prompting each paragraph individually vs. one giant prompt

15:21 – Two winning models: product-driven and UX-driven AI programmatic

16:15 – Why blog-style AI content still struggles and the “pizza” metaphor

20:05 – Greg.app’s traffic drop: lessons from a 75% decline

22:21 – AI’s scalability advantage — and its ROI trade-offs

25:24 – Zillow’s data advantage: proprietary enrichment and GIS precision

26:16 – When AI enables pages that “shouldn’t exist” by human economics

27:21 – Scaling what can’t be scaled: the real AI unlock

28:16 – Competing in local long-tail SERPs with AI vs. humans

28:31 – Traits of losing players: low information gain, weak differentiation

29:20 – Why “information gain” may be the new ranking factor

30:06 – Proprietary data as the ultimate SEO differentiator

31:00 – How real estate UX converged — and why speed and personalization win

33:00 – When non-AI programmatic still wins: data-only, high-usability pages

35:07 – Where AI doesn’t belong: when usability is more important than copy

35:37 – Personalization and the future of AI-driven recommendations

37:07 – The Perplexity vision: a world run by AI agents and voice search

39:06 – What AI agents mean for SEO and monetization

40:38 – Long-tail demand from LLMs and how Zapier used programmatic pages

42:29 – How LLMs discover your use cases and why it matters

43:20 – Using internal data to fuel new programmatic ideas Project Boggle

46:09 – Generating new landing pages from user search inputs

47:52 – Internal search data as a goldmine for programmatic expansion

48:30 – Tools of the trade: AirOps, Builder.io, Strapi, and hybrid stacks

49:43 – Why programmatic SEO still needs human PMs and engineers

50:08 – Where to find Matt online

Show Links

Matt Bowers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpbow/

Matt’s Website: https://mattb.rs/

Greg.app AI plant care example: https://greg.app/plant-care/monstera

Strapi CMS: https://strapi.io/

AirOps: https://www.airops.com/

Builder.io: https://www.builder.io/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

iTunes:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

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https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo |

#contentmarketing

Nick LeRoy, Enterprise SEO Consultant and author of *SEO For Lunch*, joins Ross Hudgens to debate a hot topic in SEO right now — the rise of “Best X” listicles and the emergence of what Nick calls **LLM PBNs**.

They unpack the ethics, brand risk, and strategic value of publishing your own “best” lists to capture AI-era visibility and how tactics once considered gray hat are being re-examined in the age of ChatGPT and AI Overviews.

If you’ve ever wondered whether to publish your own “Best X” article (or what happens when you do), this episode dives deep into the data, the risk, and the real takeaways for modern SEO strategy.

**Plus:** brand perception vs. performance marketing, AI training data, the ethics of self-ranking, and why most “shortcuts” aren’t worth it in 2025.

Show Notes

0:08 – Why Nick wrote his post on LLM PBNs and “Best X” articles

1:00 – Defining the three types of listicles: self-hosted, third-party, and PBNs

3:23 – Why AI and search are blurring ethical lines for content manipulation

5:00 – The real risk: brand perception and user trust over rankings

8:01 – Do “Best X” articles actually drive qualified leads?

10:09 – Why these listicles still work tactically in B2B SEO

12:12 – How to do it right: objectivity, transparency, and editorial value

14:01 – The importance of segmenting by use case (“best for enterprise,” etc.)

16:15 – Outbound links, nofollow abuse, and why honesty still wins

17:36 – When to avoid listicles entirely (and why product quality matters most)

20:24 – LLM PBNs vs. traditional PBNs — and why they’re not worth it

23:22 – Affiliate influence and how AI learns from “best of” lists

25:33 – Why bad products can’t rank long term (no matter the tactics)

27:26 – Testing ethically: what Nick learned from black-hat experiments

30:48 – The SMB risk: how FOMO and “easy buttons” hurt small businesses

33:19 – Better investments for local brands than AI visibility schemes

35:20 – Why starting from scratch is tougher than ever in SEO

37:07 – The future of niche review sites like Zyppy and why they matter

38:30 – Final takeaway: research deeply and focus on long-term trust

Show Links

Nick LeRoy on LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickleroy/]

SEO For Lunch Newsletter: [https://www.seoforlunch.com/]

Nick’s post on LLM PBNs: [https://www.seoforlunch.com/p/llm-pbns]

Zyppy (by Cyrus Shepard): [https://zyppy.com/]

Siege Media Enterprise SEO Consulting: [https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/enterprise-seo-consultants]

Siege Media Best Fintech Marketing Agencies: [https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/best-fintech-marketing-agencies]

Mentimeter Kahoot Alternatives Example: [https://www.mentimeter.com/blog/education/kahoot-alternatives]

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

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#contentmarketing

Shannon Minkel, Senior Director of Product SEO at Siege Media, joins Ross Hudgens to unpack one of the biggest questions in search right now: did Google just kill rank tracking beyond page two?

They explore what this shift means for SEOs—whether it’s a sign to finally focus on input metrics, how declining referral traffic from ChatGPT impacts strategy, and what Similarweb and Siege Media’s own research reveal about changing engagement rates.

From GA4 benchmarks to the future of AI search, this episode breaks down the data, the rumors, and the real-world implications for anyone navigating SEO in 2025.

Plus: input metrics, lagging indicators, Similarweb’s ChatGPT data, and why Google’s rumored “AI mode” rollout could redefine how we measure success.

0:08 – Why Google’s rank tracking changes matter now

1:14 – Is rank tracking beyond page two dead?

2:36 – The rise of input metrics and controllable KPIs

4:09 – ChatGPT referral traffic declines across Siege, Ahrefs & Profound

6:12 – Similarweb’s data on ChatGPT usage growth vs. declining engagement

8:04 – What lagging indicators like ChatGPT quality mean for SEOs

9:28 – Interpreting GA4 engagement rates and site health signals

11:05 – Google’s rumored AI mode rollout (and roll-back)

13:17 – The future of attribution in a generative search world

15:21 – How SEOs should adapt reporting for execs in 2025

17:43 – Why input metrics may replace old rank-tracking habits

20:05 – What Shannon is watching most closely in AI search

Shannon Minkel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonminkel

GA4 engagement rates → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/ga4-engagement-rates

ChatGPT referral traffic study → https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/chatgpt-referral-traffic-data

SEJ: https://searchengineland.com/google-search-rank-and-position-tracking-is-a-mess-right-now-461984

Similarweb on ChatGPT growth: https://x.com/Similarweb/status/1965726707832528974

SEMrush: https://www.semrush.com/blog/google-usage-after-chatgpt-adoption/

ChatGPT vs. Google study: https://chatgpt-vs-google.com/

Input Metrics for SEO newsletter: https://newsletter.seomba.com/p/input-metrics-for-seo

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

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#contentmarketing

Zach Chahalis, VP of SEO at Apartments.com, joins Ross Hudgens for a deep dive into the high-stakes world of real estate SEO—where listings change daily, pages balloon into the hundreds of thousands, and competition is cutthroat across every SERP.

They explore how Zach’s team manages SEO at scale, including 75+ site migrations, advanced internal linking via entity modeling, and custom AI agents built to streamline content operations. From avoiding redirect chains to handling rental “orphan pages,” this episode is packed with hard-earned lessons for SEOs working at enterprise scale.

Plus: duplicate content, the future of AI search in real estate, and why your site should never go through a migration before Black Friday.

Show Notes

0:08 – Zach’s role at Apartments.com and SEO in high-competition markets

1:00 – Biggest pitfalls in site migrations: communication and redirect logic

2:00 – Why bad redirect chains are like sending mail to your old address

3:39 – What to expect from traffic drops post-migration

5:06 – The difference between redesigns, CMS moves, and full migrations

7:42 – How entity linking models boost internal linking and relevance

9:55 – The user and SEO value of cross-linking neighborhood/location pages

11:51 – How Zach’s team measures and improves internal page authority

13:17 – Their in-house SEO testing program and what they’ve learned

15:01 – When they ignore positive SEO test results to preserve UX

16:41 – Managing orphaned rental pages and lifecycle SEO logic

19:05 – What they show users when listings go offline

21:24 – When to 404 vs. redirect in real estate or e-commerce

23:37 – Competing in a duplicate content world: data + experience wins

25:56 – Using proprietary data (e.g., 3D tours) to differentiate listings

27:28 – Real estate’s slower exposure to AI Overviews

28:19 – AI as productivity booster: writing, research, and landlord tools

30:46 – How internal teams use AI to speed up editorial content creation

33:50 – Why real estate is less impacted by AI than other verticals

35:59 – Indexing the long tail: 250K+ neighborhoods, 40K city pages

37:55 – Agentic workflows: surfacing internal data to speed up content

40:58 – How AI flags Fair Housing violations before content goes live

42:48 – Building secure, proprietary pipelines for real estate data

44:03 – Where to find Zach online

Show Links

Zach Chahalis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacharychahalis

Zach’s website: https://www.zacharychahalis.com

Hyperlocal Content from a National Lens deck: https://speakerdeck.com/zjchahalis/hyperlocal-content-from-a-national-lens

Apartments.com: https://www.apartments.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

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#contentmarketing

Tom Critchlow, EVP of Audience Growth at Raptive, joins Ross for a deep dive into how input metrics can transform SEO strategy—especially in an era of declining visibility and messy attribution from AI search engines.

They explore how input metrics improve executive reporting, unlock budget, and build cross-functional alignment by shifting focus from vanity outcomes to controllable, operational activities. Tom shares insights from his time at Raptive, lessons from Amazon’s internal frameworks, and practical tips for teams to track quality, not just quantity. If you're navigating SEO in 2025, this episode is your playbook.

Plus: scorecards, dashboards, quality benchmarks, and how input metrics can shape strategic storytelling at every level of an org.

Show Notes

0:08 – Why “getting SEO done” starts with business communication

1:14 – Executive buy-in and the underrated power of input metrics

2:06 – What are controllable input metrics? Lessons from Amazon

3:24 – Why output-only reporting drives blind decision-making

5:06 – Building reports that pair input + output for alignment

7:01 – Input metrics: weekly/monthly rhythm vs quarterly output

9:15 – Goal-setting tension: input vs output metrics for teams

11:24 – Why SEOs need to “make their work legible” to leadership

12:30 – Input metrics as a path to getting more SEO budget

14:20 – The missing business case for many SEO initiatives

15:33 – Raptive case study: measuring behavior change over clicks

18:02 – Building input metrics from scratch: the 9-month reality

19:51 – Amazon’s evolving metrics: controllability over time

21:26 – Mapping input metrics to what actually drives success

22:33 – The danger of metric sprawl—and how to refocus

23:59 – Why some SEO work becomes “invisible” without input metrics

25:13 – Three metrics per person: a practical ceiling

26:51 – How input metrics support pipeline generation in B2B

28:35 – Communicating SEO value to non-executives via unit economics

30:06 – Stop yelling “fix it”—report what’s not getting done

31:22 – Translating editorial quality into spreadsheet metrics

33:06 – Red, yellow, green ≠ strategic clarity—track actual numbers

34:08 – Attribution is broken: input metrics matter more than ever

36:43 – Benchmarking input metrics against competitors

38:03 – Don’t just track AI visibility—track the work you can control

39:02 – Why input metrics aren’t neutral—and why that’s OK

41:01 – Planning cycles: why it takes 6 months to see input adoption

42:15 – Measuring “quality”: content scores, CSATs, and rubrics

44:25 – Why you must operationalize “quality” to get promoted

46:08 – Manual scoring systems and quality baselines

47:13 – Where to find Tom and what he’s working on next

Show Links

Tom Critchlow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomcritchlow

Tom’s blog: http://tomcritchlow.com

Input Metrics for SEO article: https://newsletter.seomba.com/p/input-metrics-for-seo

Raptive: https://raptive.com Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

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Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown:

https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo |

#contentmarketing

Ross joins Will Critchlow of SearchPilot for a wide-ranging conversation on the evolving landscape of e-commerce SEO and content strategy in the AI era.

They cover how e-commerce brands are adapting content for multimodal search, why digital PR is surging, what still works in a zero-click world, and how Siege’s homepage study reveals surprising traffic shifts from AI engines like ChatGPT and Google’s AI Overviews.

Ross also shares lessons from working with Instacart, thoughts on EEAT, brand building in 2025, and how SEOs can think more like product teams to win long-term. Plus: goal-setting, basketball, and how to build your perfect calendar.

Show Notes

0:08 – Introductions

1:00 – Ross on what e-commerce clients are asking for in 2025

2:12 – High-fidelity content and why it still drives SEO value

3:24 – The digital PR spike—and why it might not be right for every brand

4:17 – Rethinking link building: content that earns links without outreach

5:11 – The shift from link bait to real brand-building campaigns

6:34 – Why measuring content value is still messy

7:28 – Investing in analytics and attribution models that actually work

8:52 – Instacart case study: how it’s still winning in 2025

9:59 – Calculators as a defensible content type against AI overviews

11:15 – Homepage traffic is up 10%—what Siege’s study found

12:56 – Differences in B2B vs B2C AI traffic attribution

14:15 – How AI referrals may go dark: no referrer, just branded visits

15:40 – SearchPilot’s view: aggregating dark and disaggregated traffic sources

17:20 – How LM-driven browsing creates long tail referral lift

18:57 – AI is doing the searching: optimizing for “robot” queries

21:00 – Why retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) matters for e-commerce

22:44 – Digital PR’s role in influencing AI citation engines

23:51 – Siege’s brand mention study: impressions up, but who’s watching?

25:20 – Review volume = the next big SEO edge in e-commerce

26:04 – Instacart’s product reviews may be helping SEO more than you think

27:15 – Human authorship: should you expose expert bylines?

28:52 – Where author signals matter most

30:04 – Real-world reviews are the new long tail content strategy

31:09 – Who’s doing it well?

32:14 – Brand authority, SEO signals, and Siege’s convo with Dr. Pete

33:48 – Building a brand health dashboard (and what to track in 2025)

36:18 – Who owns content? SEO increasingly embedded in product teams

37:40 – Product SEO as a mindset, not just a technical checklist

39:24 – Optimizer mentality, health goals, and personal systems

40:11 – Ross’s “perfect calendar” and how it supports business goals

42:06 – Will on process goals vs outcome goals in business and life

43:44 – Can you be too optimized? Balancing mental health and iteration

45:07 – Long-term vision in a 3-week world

46:00 – Where to find Ross online and what Siege is working on next

Show Links

‬

Will Critchlow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willcritchlow

Homepage Study:‬‭ https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/ai-homepage-traffic-increase

SearchPilot:‬‭ https://www.searchpilot.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

iTunes:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

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Josh Blyskal, AEO Engineer at Profound, joins Ross Hudgens to dive deep into the emerging world of AI-native search optimization—and how brands can win visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google’s AI Overviews.

They unpack Profound’s Conversation Explorer, fresh data on generative search intent, and the real-world tactics that drive clicks in the new AI-dominated SERP. From schema tips to 2025 URL hacks and LMS.txt files, this is the tactical roadmap for modern marketers navigating the future of search.

Show Notes

0:08 – Why AI-native visibility is heating up

1:00 – Profound's Series A and platform momentum

2:15 – The moment for AI search is here

4:40 – How Profound built the largest dataset of answer engine queries

7:12 – New ad tech categories marketers aren’t tracking

9:40 – What “generative” search intent actually looks like

11:25 – Tools vs. blogs: what answer engines really cite

13:00 – Why traffic quality from AI sources is insanely high

15:05 – The rise of sponsored AI queries (and what to do about it)

16:50 – How to future-proof your site for ChatGPT + Perplexity

20:00 – Listicles dominate AI search—here’s why

22:30 – What Bing has to do with ChatGPT visibility

24:00 – URL strategies for boosting citations

28:40 – Semantic chunking and structured answers for pickup

31:00 – 2025 SEO hacks: title tags, slugs, and metadata tips

33:45 – Schema markup that actually works (hint: authorship)

36:00 – How freshness impacts AI citation cycles

39:20 – LMS.txt and LMS-fulltext: the new crawl frontier

41:10 – Why answer engines could free up web creativity

43:30 – Commercial landing pages are the future of evergreen visibility

46:00 – Profound’s upcoming launch: actions and content briefs

48:30 – Pricing, access, and how to get started with Profound

Show Links

Josh Blyskal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-blyskal/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-blyskal/

What content do AI engines like: https://www.xfunnel.ai/blog/what-content-type-ai-engines-like

Profound: https://www.tryprofound.com/

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

iTunes:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Listen on Google:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA

Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown:

https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo |

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Chris Kelly, ex-Asana growth lead, joins Ross Hudgens to break down how Asana scaled to 20M+ international SEO visits—and how to do it again in 2025.

They dive into localization strategy, market prioritization, TMS tools, team structures, and how to tie international SEO directly to business outcomes.

Chris also unpacks real-world mistakes, market-specific tactics, and where AI fits into future-proofing global content.

Show Notes

0:08 – How Chris led Asana’s international SEO from 0 to 20M+ visits

2:12 – Aligning SEO with real business outcomes

4:27 – How to prioritize markets and go deep, not wide

6:06 – Why "strategy before scale" matters more than ever

9:09 – Centralized vs. distributed SEO models

10:13 – The localization decision waterfall: MT, native copy, or hybrid?

13:11 – Tiered frameworks for scaling efficiently across regions

16:43 – Localization teams and SEO: why they must integrate

18:05 – Market nuances: Japan vs. Germany

20:18 – The role of user research in international SEO success

22:02 – When to implement a Translation Management System (TMS)

25:33 – Real talk: the true cost of international SEO

28:18 – Mistakes to avoid: budget, ops, and lack of data

33:10 – Building the right international SEO team

35:06 – Communication tips for global collaboration

38:34 – How AI will transform international strategy and QA

42:26 – Will AI erase top-funnel SEO internationally?

Show Links

Chris Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherakelly/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on

iTunes:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Listen on Google:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA

Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown:

https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo |

#contentmarketing