Content and Conversation: Organic Growth Insights from Siege Media

Ross Hudgens sits down with Eric Wu, who leads SEO, GEO, and CRO at Ramp, to unpack one of the most experiment-driven search programs in B2B.

Eric walks through the test that proved a simple markdown file could change ChatGPT's answers, a $162 "AI-exclusive" demo offer that real prospects asked sales about by name, and why Ramp leaves experiments live for months to track how answer engines shift over time.

0:00 – The markdown experiment: changing ChatGPT's answer with a $162 offer
3:05 – Marketing to agents without hurting the user experience
4:37 – Personalized AI content at scale
8:24 – Schema tests and why answer engines look like early-2000s search
10:17 – Long-running experiments and getting flagged as manipulation
12:47 – Prioritizing experiments vs. business outcomes
14:42 – Dark search: why AI traffic shows up as direct
17:37 – How Ramp found 30–40% of direct traffic is answer engine traffic
22:00 – Why Google won't share AI Mode clicks
24:15 – The Search Console vs. GA4 flip after October 2025
25:29 – Why Ramp ranks for the word "yes"
28:29 – Ramp's Reddit experiments
34:49 – Repurposing blog content on Reddit
38:55 – Vendor comparison pages built for procurement
42:40 – LLM visibility tracking: vanity metrics vs. what correlates with sales
45:15 – Using "How did you hear about us?" to attribute dark traffic

• Ramp Rate
• Ramp Platform on Reddit
• Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens
• Subscribe for weekly episodes
• Listen on Apple
• Listen on Spotify
• Follow Ross on X
• Follow Siege Media on X
• Email Ross

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Siege Media CEO Ross Hudgens flies solo for a case study episode on Zapier, one of the most cited domains in LLMs and a name almost anyone in B2B or SaaS will recognize from their own citation reports.

Drawing from a longer chapter in his upcoming book on GEO with Wiley, Ross breaks down why Zapier shows up in roughly 80% of the bottom-funnel prompts it cares about, and why it ranks fifth among cited domains in B2B, behind only G2, Facebook, YouTube, and Reddit.

Ross walks through the pieces behind that visibility: an integration library that lets Zapier write about thousands of tools without competing with them, a deep bench of editorially rigorous "best of" and "versus" articles, digital PR built on survey-driven data studies, and an actively curated Reddit community. He also takes on the big objection, whether citations actually drive business, with Zapier's own numbers: 40% of visitors now find them through LLMs, and 25% of signups are attributed to AI.

Get the book to read more about Zapier: https://www.siegemedia.com/geo-book

Show Notes
0:00 Why Zapier as a case study 
0:36 Zapier's bottom-funnel AI visibility 
1:05 Top 20 most cited domains, 5th in B2B 
2:02 The integration library advantage 
2:56 Best-of listicles and versus articles 
4:42 Why versus content drives LLM visibility 
5:32 Premium design and editorial standards 
6:58 Digital PR and data studies 
7:28 Building a Reddit community 
9:10 Do citations actually drive pipeline? 
10:48 The book and final thoughts

Show Links

Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens: https://a.co/d/0a4oRiI5

Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens

Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia

Email Ross: [email protected]

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens sits down with Marat Gaziev, VP of SEO & GEO at IGN, for a wide-ranging conversation about what happens to publishing when the 20-year bargain between search engines and content creators (free content in exchange for traffic) quietly falls apart. 

Marat breaks down Ziff Davis's lawsuit against OpenAI in plain terms: the copyright and trademark-dilution claims, how their properties ended up in the WebText training set, and why the judge dismissed the robots.txt argument with a memorable "lock on the back door while the front door is open" analogy. 

From there they get into the emerging economics of licensing (RSL, Microsoft's Publisher Content Marketplace, and whether AI companies can even afford to pay publishers), the shift from driving clicks to driving citations and mentions, and why sponsored content and authentic, authoritative voices may matter more than ever.

00:00 – Inside Ziff Davis and IGN
03:10 – Why Ziff Davis sued OpenAI
10:16 – RSL and content marketplaces
20:18 – Monetizing in a post-click world
26:41 – Are LLMs too naive
33:45 – 20 years of SEO history
38:34 – Using vector embeddings to match intent
45:03 – Rewriting search and SEO
51:12 – Personalization in the AI era

• Marat at LinkedIn
• Marat on X
• Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens
• Subscribe for weekly episodes
• Listen on Apple
• Listen on Spotify
• Follow Ross on X
• Follow Siege Media on X
• Email Ross

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens welcomes Jason Cohen, founder of WP Engine and Smart Bear, to unpack the "multipliers" behind outsized marketing results.  They get into how WP Engine grew affiliates into a channel competitors couldn't touch, why most A/B testing quietly produces nothing, and Jason's core argument that the quality of traffic at the top of your funnel matters more than everything below it combined.  Along the way: exclusivity deals, multi-brand strategy, defining a truly actionable ideal customer, and why showing your product's bad reviews can actually lift sales. 

Show Notes 

00:00 Intro 
00:57 The affiliate power curve 
03:00 The "magic wand" test  
10:19 Affiliates, brand value & AI search 
15:12 Defining your ideal customer 
22:42 Why your A/B test wins disappear (false positives) 
28:27 Why A/B testing fails for SEO 
33:49 Traffic quality beats everything else in the funnel 
39:04 How to actually get higher-quality traffic 
52:22 Why showing bad reviews boosts sales 

Show Links 

• Jason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncohen/ WP Engine: https://wpengine.com/ 
• Jason's Book "Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team"
• A Smart Bear: https://longform.asmartbear.com/jason-cohen/ 
• Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens: https://a.co/d/0e5jdspP 
• Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f 
• Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... 
• Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGX... 
• Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/rosshudgens 
• Follow Siege Media on X: https://x.com/siegemedia 

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Josh Blyskal, Special Projects at Profound, returns to the show for a data-rich, in-person conversation with Ross Hudgens about what's actually true in AI search right now, and what's just noise. 

Josh makes the case that the industry's obsession with tracking frequency is mostly a distraction (running a prompt 10x a day vs. once barely moves your visibility score) and that the real hard problem is still attribution. He walks through a new model some advanced teams are using, treating agent attention as a proxy for human attention and heavily discounting citations into "clicks,” and shares why ChatGPT referral traffic is up 60% since mid-March, especially for CPG. 

From there they get into why GEO is fundamentally a relationship business (the Reddit–Google negotiations, why Claude cites Reddit almost never, and the walled-garden problem), what actually separates slop from signal, and why listicles still do the "caloric work" of teaching a model an industry. 

0:00 How often should you track Prompts?

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens sits down with JH Scherck, founder of Growth Plays, for a refreshingly contrarian take on AI content. JH argues that with the right context and execution, AI already gets you 85–90% of the way to a strong B2B article, and that the real skill in 2026 is being the person who can take a B+ draft to an A+. 

Along the way he flips the industry's favorite critique on its head: was SEO content *ever* good? He makes the case that the bar was always low, and that it took removing humans from the equation for anyone to start caring about sentence construction and quality at all. 

Ross and JH also dig into where AI content genuinely works (dev tools, technical docs, location pages) versus where it falls flat, the telltale "it's 3 a.m. and your microservices are failing" intro pattern, why plugging more data sources into your workflow isn't differentiation, whether people will stop browsing websites and just chat with them, the perils nobody's discussing, how your product's history follows you around in LLMs, and why AI turns C players into more prolific C players rather than A players.

0:00 Getting 85% There: Where AI Already Beats Most Writers

4:45 The AI Doer vs. the AI Reviewer

8:48 "Was SEO Content Ever Good?" Rethinking the Slop Debate

12:24 What Actually Differentiates Content Now

16:13 Will People Stop Browsing and Just Chat With Your Site?

21:45 The Perilous Side of AI Content Nobody's Discussing

33:07 Maintenance Mode & Why Your History Follows You in LLMs

39:29 Educating Executives & Avoiding the "Slop Cannon"

48:12 Traffic Recovery, Brand Problems & Qualifying Clients Out

53:34 The Truth About ChatGPT Leads & Aggregate Citation Data

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens sits down with Aja Frost, Sr. Director of Global Growth & Paid at HubSpot, to open up the playbook behind one of the most advanced GEO/AEO programs in SaaS.

Aja shares how HubSpot has been investing in answer engine optimization since early 2023 and how the company turned a very public blog traffic decline into a "Phoenix from the ashes" story, becoming the single most visible CRM in LLMs.

They get tactical on writing for the bot (her "B2B2C" framing and "tofu with a twist" content strategy), why visibility beats citation share as a KPI, how HubSpot tracks prompts down to the feature level, and why audience size barely predicts who gets cited.

Aja also breaks down HubSpot's creator and affiliate strategy, the durable (and not-so-durable) ways to earn off-site mentions, a deep dive on doing Reddit authentically, and how she reorganized her 65-person team around products instead of web properties.

Show Notes

0:00 – HubSpot's GEO playbook

2:21 – Why AI evaluation predicts purchase intent

03:48 – Becoming the top CRM in LLMs

06:31 – Writing for the bots

11:07 – How HubSpot tracks its prompts

18:16 – Audience size doesn't predict citations

25:15 – Affiliates and valuing a citation

37:30 – The Reddit deep dive

49:27 – Inside HubSpot's reorg

Show Links

Aja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajafrost/

Aja’s website: https://ajafrost.com/

Aja on The HubSpot Marketing blog: https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/author/aja-frost

AEO Sensor: https://www.hubspot.com/aeo-sensor

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens sits down with Tom Critchlow, founder of AI Search Leaders (the evolution of his SEO MBA community), for a candid conversation about what GEO actually is in 2026 and why nobody has fully cracked it yet. 

Tom makes the case that AI search measurement looks far more like brand measurement than classic SEO: less about prompt monitoring and keyword ranking, more about share of model, awareness, and how LLMs describe you (not just whether they cite you). 

Along the way they dig into the "yes" stance SEOs need to take with executives, why brand, PR, and product teams, not SEO teams, tend to own the outcomes that move GEO, the real career risk facing SEOs, technical SEO in the age of model distillation, NavBoost and clicks as a trust signal, and the personalized, push-not-pull future of search.

Show Notes

0:00 – Why SEOs can't afford to be defensive

2:35 – How do you measure GEO?

6:24 – Measuring GEO like a brand

15:04 – Who really owns GEO?

23:26 – Technical SEO in the AI age

30:36 – Stop chasing tactics

37:09 – Selling GEO amid uncertainty

41:21 – NavBoost, clicks as trust

51:39 – Personalization, privacy and the future of search

Show Links

AI Search Leaders: https://www.searchleaders.ai/

Your Inbox Might be the Next AI Search Signal: https://ipullrank.com/google-personal-intelligence-experiment

Why Every AI Search Platform Is Now Agentic and What That Means for Your Content: https://ipullrank.com/agentic-rag

Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens

Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens sits down with Eli Schwartz, author of Product-Led SEO and former VP of SEO at SurveyMonkey, for a wide-ranging conversation on the real state of SEO in 2026.

They break down Google's new AI search guidance (spoiler: it's basically just SEO), why there's a massive mismatch between what companies want from SEO teams and what they're getting, and why Eli thinks the SEO career path is broken but the demand for real SEO has never been higher.

They also get into which industries are best positioned for the LLM era, why technical SEO is actually becoming more valuable, and why Eli thinks SEOs should start thinking of themselves as product managers.

Chapter Markers

00:00:10 – Google's new AI search guidance

00:07:26 – Manipulation isn’t a strategy

00:12:22 – The SEO career mismatch

00:17:50 – Why SEO teams can't show their value

00:25:26 – New entrants and dying conferences

00:36:17 – The skills SEOs need now

00:43:35 – Why the best SEOs build things

00:57:45 – Which industries win in the LLM era

Show Links

Google’s GEO advice: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/ai-optimization-guide

Eli on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/

Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens

Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross Hudgens welcomes Lily Ray, VP of SEO Strategy & Research at Amsive — this time in person — for a wide-ranging conversation on what's actually working (and what's getting patched) in AI search right now.

They dig into the rise and likely fall of self-promotional listicles and comparison pages, the new wave of GEO manipulation tactics already being flagged as spam by Google and Microsoft, and how to build visibility that's genuinely algorithm-proof.

Lily also shares how her team is using AI day-to-day, what the technical GEO checklist looks like in 2026, and why she's still betting on Google winning the AI search race long-term.

Show Notes:

00:00:11 – Lily's new consulting practice at Algorithmic

00:02:11 – The rise and fall of self-promotional listicles

00:08:11 – Comparison pages and alternative posts

00:12:38 – Authentic authority vs. paid influence

00:15:42 – GEO exploits Google & Microsoft flag as spam

00:27:23 – Using AI day-to-day

00:30:46 – The GEO technical checklist

00:36:27 – Predicting the Next 12 Months

Show Links:

Find Lily at Amsive: https://www.amsive.com/insights/author/lily-ray/

Follow Lily on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lily-ray-44755615/

Follow Lily on X: https://x.com/lilyraynyc

Lily’s Substack: https://lilyraynyc.substack.com/

Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM

Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens

Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing