Ross sits down with Jess Joyce, SEO consultant at Inbound Scope, to talk about why the term "blog" is outdated—and how systems thinking, revenue-led SEO, and diagram-driven storytelling are creating smarter strategies for SaaS brands.

Jess unpacks her visual-first approach to social content, explains the shortcomings of traditional keyword research, and breaks down how AI tools like Gong and Granola are unlocking insight directly from sales calls. They also explore the growing irrelevance of traffic as a core metric and why internal linking, customer pain points, and first-link architecture matter more than ever.

Plus: why technical SEO isn’t dead, how to build smarter weekly systems with your team, and a hopeful rant about killing the word “blog” once and for all.

Show Notes
00:00 – Intro: Why Jess’s Diagrams Stand Out
01:00 – Visualizing Content for Clients (And Prospects)
03:30 – Why Revenue-Led SEO > Traffic-Led Metrics
06:00 – What Google & AI Are Doing to Top-of-Funnel
09:00 – Segmenting Content by Intent, Not Format
12:00 – Sales Conversations as the New Keyword Research
15:00 – Using Granola and Gong to Extract Real Pain Points
17:00 – Are Keywords Dying in a Zero-Click World?
20:00 – Technical SEO Still Matters (Despite the Hype)
24:00 – First Links, Internal Linking & Breadcrumbs
27:00 – Systems Thinking: Weekly Sprints & Triangulated Ops
30:00 – Why "Blog" Is the Wrong Word for Modern Content
33:00 – Enterprise Content Silos & the WordPress Problem
34:30 – Where to Follow Jess & Final Thoughts

Show Links
Jess’s Work: https://jessjoyce.com/
Inbound Scope: https://inboundscope.com/
Granola AI: https://www.granola.ai/
Gong.io: https://www.gong.io/
Ross’s Studio Recording: https://riverside.fm/dashboard/studios/ross-hudgenss-studio/recordings/29fbaa7c-9c87-41a0-82b0-e46416b9401d?share-token=ad8195daf09f9375064a&content-shared=recording
Jess on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessjoyce_heres-how-i-would-create-an-roi-generating-activity-7295472607041138690-v4L0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAOzg8UB65a5t0zuiVlWCkdHaLrjxPPAwS8

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Kristan Bauer returns for a deep dive into the technical and organizational SEO strategies that helped Zillow grow to nearly 2 billion annual visits.

She shares tactical insights on enterprise SEO at scale, including testing frameworks, internal collaboration, indexing strategies, and what it takes to lead with executive presence in a high-stakes environment.

Ross and Kristan also unpack the challenges of long-tail targeting, structuring an SEO team for success, and how to know when it’s time to build your own SEO testing platform.

00:00 – Welcome Back Kristan & The Zillow SEO Journey

00:34 – From Agency to Zillow: What Made Zillow’s Traffic Explode

01:09 – How Zillow Reached Nearly 2 Billion Visits/Year

03:23 – The Hidden SEO Power of Off-Market Listings

04:23 – Internal Linking Tactics to Boost Indexing

06:52 – Long-Tail Dynamic Pages from Listing Descriptions

08:44 – Managing Page Quality in Long-Tail SEO

10:21 – When & Why Zillow Invested in an SEO Testing Platform

12:09 – How SEO Was Structured at Zillow (and Why It Worked)

13:58 – Quarterly Planning + Executive-Level SEO Visibility

15:05 – One-on-One Collaboration With Other Channel Leads

17:10 – Building a Culture of Shared Ownership Around SEO

18:56 – Risk Management via SEO Testing Platforms

20:39 – Why Testing Is a Must at Enterprise Scale

22:51 – How Zillow Prioritized Smart Resource Allocation

24:41 – How to Know When It’s Time to Build a Platform

26:41 – Structuring SEO Inside Product vs. Marketing

30:06 – How Cross-Team SEO Works at the Enterprise Level

32:21 – Building Executive Presence & Communicating Up

34:05 – Wins, Challenges & Transparent SEO Reporting

36:00 – SEO Summits with Airbnb, Yelp, TripAdvisor & More

41:00 – Final Lessons: Communication, Creativity & Big Rocks

Kristan’s Website: https://www.kristanbauer.com

Kristan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristandauble

Our Previous Episode on Enterprise Real Estate SEO: https://www.siegemedia.com/conversation/kristan-bauer

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes Eli Schwartz, author of‬‭ Product-Led‬‭ SEO‬‭ , to unpack the evolving‬ role of SEO in a world shaped by AI, shifting perceptions, and organizational‬ challenges.‬

‭

Eli dives into why SEO is being deprioritized, what companies are getting wrong,‬ and how product-led SEO is the path forward.‬

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They cover layoffs, agency churn, the role of growth teams, and why most‬ companies‬‭ shouldn’t‬‭ do SEO at all.‬

‭ Show Notes:‬

‭ 00:00 Welcome Back Eli & The Current Pulse on Search‬

‭ 00:53 Marketing Layoffs & Volatility in SEO‬

‭ 02:31 Why SEO Struggles to Defend Its Value‬

‭ 05:49 AI Search vs Traditional SEO — What Actually Changes?‬

‭ 07:58 Are We Just Rebranding SEO?‬

‭ 09:27 Visibility, Links & Human-Like Search Engines‬

‭ 12:50 The Problem With “AI SEO” Hype‬

‭ 14:45 Why Edge Case SEO Will Die Fast‬

‭ 18:19 Why “Technical SEO” Isn’t a Moat Anymore‬

‭ 22:06 The AI Content Misstep: Spam at Scale‬

‭ 24:27 The New SEO: Blending Human + AI + Product‬

‭ 28:11 Your Product Has to Be Good Now — Period‬

‭ 29:20 Revisiting the Book: What Eli Would Update‬

‭ 30:20 The Spicy Take: Most Companies Shouldn’t Do SEO‬

‭ 35:03 How to Evaluate if SEO is Right for You‬

‭ 38:45 The “Tax Preparer” Problem With Agencies‬

‭ 41:06 If You’ve Fired 3 SEO Agencies… It’s You‬

‭ 43:20 The SEO Funnel Needs the Right Org Buy-In‬

‭ 46:01 Growth & Product Titles Are the Key‬

‭ 47:28 The Sales Enablement Side of SEO‬

‭ 50:30 Content Strategy vs Keyword Volume Obsession‬

‭ 51:40 The Non-Apocalypse of AI‬

‭ 55:04 The Real AI Shift Will Be Gradual‬

‭ 56:01 How to Actually Execute Product SEO‬

‭ 59:49 Final Thoughts & Where to Follow Eli‬

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Show Links:‬

Eli’s Newsletter:‬‭ https://www.productledseo.com/‬

Eli’s Book on Amazon:‬‭ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091D572ZL‬

Eli on LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze‬

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Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

‬Ross sits down with A.J. Ghergich, VP of Consulting Services at Botify, to unpack enterprise‬ SEO, AI governance, and why SEOs absolutely need a Bing strategy in 2025.‬

‭ A.J. shares the story of how he landed the rare @SEO Twitter handle and what it’s meant for‬‭ his visibility in the industry. They dive into findings from Botify’s latest AI survey, highlighting‬ the disconnect between perceived AI readiness and real-world implementation challenges.‬

‭From AI hallucinations and live retrieval limitations to crawl budgets and indexation at scale,‬ this conversation is packed with tactical insights. 

A.J. also drops a hot take on Bing,‬ explaining why it's now critical for AI visibility—especially in the age of ChatGPT and live‬ search integration.‬

‭They also explore practical steps marketers can take to better control their brand‬ messaging in AI outputs, and why technical SEO still reigns supreme at the enterprise level.‬

‭ Show Notes:‬

‭ 00:00 – Intro & AJ’s @SEO Twitter Handle Story‬

‭ 02:00 – The Early Twitter Beta and Getting the Handle‬

‭ 04:00 – Value from the @SEO Handle & the Power of Network‬

‭ 06:00 – Botify's AI Survey: 94% Claim AI Readiness?‬

‭ 08:00 – What AI Readiness Really Looks Like‬

‭ 10:00 – Why Governance is the Missing Piece‬

‭ 13:00 – Content Hallucinations, Training Data, and eCommerce Pitfalls‬

‭ 16:30 – Centralizing Brand Messaging for AI‬

‭ 19:00 – Enterprise SEO: Hidden Challenges at Scale‬

‭ 22:00 – Indexation Gaps in Enterprise Sites‬

‭ 24:30 – Crawl Budget, Canonicals & Technical SEO Realities‬

‭ 27:00 – Freshness & Product Page Recency = Revenue‬

‭ 30:00 – AI Overviews, CTR Drops, and the Future of Search‬

‭ 33:00 – Ghost Clicks & Attribution in an AI-Driven World‬

‭ 36:00 – Preparing for Bot-to-Bot Web Traffic‬

‭ 39:00 – Are You Ready for ChatGPT Traffic?‬

‭ 41:00 – Why You‬‭ Need‬‭ a Bing Strategy in 2025‬

‭ 43:00 – How to Push Content into Bing (and ChatGPT) with IndexNow‬

‭ 44:30 – AJ’s Hot Take: Optimize for Humans‬‭ and‬‭ AIs‬

‭ 45:00 – Where to Connect with AJ‬

‭ Show Links:‬

‭ AJ on Twitter:‬‭ https://twitter.com/SEO‬‭ Botify AI Survey:‬

‭ https://www.botify.com/blog/marketing-leaders-want-to-meet-ai-search-head-on-new-surve‬y-results‬

‭ How Many People Search on Google?:‬

‭ https://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-how-often-do-americans-search-google-which-se‬arch-verticals-do-they-use‬

‭ IndexNow:‬‭ https://www.bing.com/indexnow‬

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross sits down with Dr. Pete Meyers of Moz to discuss the ever-changing landscape of SEO, the impact of AI overviews, and how Moz is adapting to a rapidly evolving industry.

They dive into the challenges of innovation in a competitive space, the role of brand authority versus domain authority, and the data-driven future of search marketing. Plus, Dr. Pete shares insights on Moz’s latest tools and the future of tracking Google’s updates.

If you’re in the SEO world, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss.

Show Notes:

00:00 Introduction & Welcome

01:04 Moz’s Position in a Competitive SEO Landscape

02:52 AI Overviews & the Future of SERPs

07:06 MozCast & Google Update Tracking

12:53 The Role of Brand Authority in SEO

19:09 How SEO Has Shifted Over the Years

24:15 Keyword Research & New Moz Tools

30:56 The Decline of Blog Comments & Online Community Shifts

36:41 SEO Data & Attribution Challenges

41:26 What’s Next for Moz?

Resources & Links:

Brand Authority vs Domain Authority during a recent update: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thcapper_i-had-a-theory-from-the-google-leaks-the-activity-7237411717947817985-Nz4V/

Introducing Brand Authority: https://moz.com/blog/introducing-brand-authority

Google’s Update History:https://moz.com/google-algorithm-change

MozCast:https://moz.com/mozcast

MozCon’s on the road in 2025: https://moz.com/blog/mozcon-on-the-road-2025

Dr. Pete on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drpete/

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing