Kristan Bauer returns for a deep dive into the technical and organizational SEO strategies that helped Zillow grow to nearly 2 billion annual visits.

She shares tactical insights on enterprise SEO at scale, including testing frameworks, internal collaboration, indexing strategies, and what it takes to lead with executive presence in a high-stakes environment.

Ross and Kristan also unpack the challenges of long-tail targeting, structuring an SEO team for success, and how to know when it’s time to build your own SEO testing platform.

00:00 – Welcome Back Kristan & The Zillow SEO Journey

00:34 – From Agency to Zillow: What Made Zillow’s Traffic Explode

01:09 – How Zillow Reached Nearly 2 Billion Visits/Year

03:23 – The Hidden SEO Power of Off-Market Listings

04:23 – Internal Linking Tactics to Boost Indexing

06:52 – Long-Tail Dynamic Pages from Listing Descriptions

08:44 – Managing Page Quality in Long-Tail SEO

10:21 – When & Why Zillow Invested in an SEO Testing Platform

12:09 – How SEO Was Structured at Zillow (and Why It Worked)

13:58 – Quarterly Planning + Executive-Level SEO Visibility

15:05 – One-on-One Collaboration With Other Channel Leads

17:10 – Building a Culture of Shared Ownership Around SEO

18:56 – Risk Management via SEO Testing Platforms

20:39 – Why Testing Is a Must at Enterprise Scale

22:51 – How Zillow Prioritized Smart Resource Allocation

24:41 – How to Know When It’s Time to Build a Platform

26:41 – Structuring SEO Inside Product vs. Marketing

30:06 – How Cross-Team SEO Works at the Enterprise Level

32:21 – Building Executive Presence & Communicating Up

34:05 – Wins, Challenges & Transparent SEO Reporting

36:00 – SEO Summits with Airbnb, Yelp, TripAdvisor & More

41:00 – Final Lessons: Communication, Creativity & Big Rocks

Kristan’s Website: https://www.kristanbauer.com

Kristan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristandauble

Our Previous Episode on Enterprise Real Estate SEO: https://www.siegemedia.com/conversation/kristan-bauer

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes Eli Schwartz, author of‬‭ Product-Led‬‭ SEO‬‭ , to unpack the evolving‬ role of SEO in a world shaped by AI, shifting perceptions, and organizational‬ challenges.‬

‭

Eli dives into why SEO is being deprioritized, what companies are getting wrong,‬ and how product-led SEO is the path forward.‬

‭

They cover layoffs, agency churn, the role of growth teams, and why most‬ companies‬‭ shouldn’t‬‭ do SEO at all.‬

‭ Show Notes:‬

‭ 00:00 Welcome Back Eli & The Current Pulse on Search‬

‭ 00:53 Marketing Layoffs & Volatility in SEO‬

‭ 02:31 Why SEO Struggles to Defend Its Value‬

‭ 05:49 AI Search vs Traditional SEO — What Actually Changes?‬

‭ 07:58 Are We Just Rebranding SEO?‬

‭ 09:27 Visibility, Links & Human-Like Search Engines‬

‭ 12:50 The Problem With “AI SEO” Hype‬

‭ 14:45 Why Edge Case SEO Will Die Fast‬

‭ 18:19 Why “Technical SEO” Isn’t a Moat Anymore‬

‭ 22:06 The AI Content Misstep: Spam at Scale‬

‭ 24:27 The New SEO: Blending Human + AI + Product‬

‭ 28:11 Your Product Has to Be Good Now — Period‬

‭ 29:20 Revisiting the Book: What Eli Would Update‬

‭ 30:20 The Spicy Take: Most Companies Shouldn’t Do SEO‬

‭ 35:03 How to Evaluate if SEO is Right for You‬

‭ 38:45 The “Tax Preparer” Problem With Agencies‬

‭ 41:06 If You’ve Fired 3 SEO Agencies… It’s You‬

‭ 43:20 The SEO Funnel Needs the Right Org Buy-In‬

‭ 46:01 Growth & Product Titles Are the Key‬

‭ 47:28 The Sales Enablement Side of SEO‬

‭ 50:30 Content Strategy vs Keyword Volume Obsession‬

‭ 51:40 The Non-Apocalypse of AI‬

‭ 55:04 The Real AI Shift Will Be Gradual‬

‭ 56:01 How to Actually Execute Product SEO‬

‭ 59:49 Final Thoughts & Where to Follow Eli‬

‭

Show Links:‬

Eli’s Newsletter:‬‭ https://www.productledseo.com/‬

Eli’s Book on Amazon:‬‭ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091D572ZL‬

Eli on LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze‬

‭

‭

‭

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

‬Ross sits down with A.J. Ghergich, VP of Consulting Services at Botify, to unpack enterprise‬ SEO, AI governance, and why SEOs absolutely need a Bing strategy in 2025.‬

‭ A.J. shares the story of how he landed the rare @SEO Twitter handle and what it’s meant for‬‭ his visibility in the industry. They dive into findings from Botify’s latest AI survey, highlighting‬ the disconnect between perceived AI readiness and real-world implementation challenges.‬

‭From AI hallucinations and live retrieval limitations to crawl budgets and indexation at scale,‬ this conversation is packed with tactical insights. 

A.J. also drops a hot take on Bing,‬ explaining why it's now critical for AI visibility—especially in the age of ChatGPT and live‬ search integration.‬

‭They also explore practical steps marketers can take to better control their brand‬ messaging in AI outputs, and why technical SEO still reigns supreme at the enterprise level.‬

‭ Show Notes:‬

‭ 00:00 – Intro & AJ’s @SEO Twitter Handle Story‬

‭ 02:00 – The Early Twitter Beta and Getting the Handle‬

‭ 04:00 – Value from the @SEO Handle & the Power of Network‬

‭ 06:00 – Botify's AI Survey: 94% Claim AI Readiness?‬

‭ 08:00 – What AI Readiness Really Looks Like‬

‭ 10:00 – Why Governance is the Missing Piece‬

‭ 13:00 – Content Hallucinations, Training Data, and eCommerce Pitfalls‬

‭ 16:30 – Centralizing Brand Messaging for AI‬

‭ 19:00 – Enterprise SEO: Hidden Challenges at Scale‬

‭ 22:00 – Indexation Gaps in Enterprise Sites‬

‭ 24:30 – Crawl Budget, Canonicals & Technical SEO Realities‬

‭ 27:00 – Freshness & Product Page Recency = Revenue‬

‭ 30:00 – AI Overviews, CTR Drops, and the Future of Search‬

‭ 33:00 – Ghost Clicks & Attribution in an AI-Driven World‬

‭ 36:00 – Preparing for Bot-to-Bot Web Traffic‬

‭ 39:00 – Are You Ready for ChatGPT Traffic?‬

‭ 41:00 – Why You‬‭ Need‬‭ a Bing Strategy in 2025‬

‭ 43:00 – How to Push Content into Bing (and ChatGPT) with IndexNow‬

‭ 44:30 – AJ’s Hot Take: Optimize for Humans‬‭ and‬‭ AIs‬

‭ 45:00 – Where to Connect with AJ‬

‭ Show Links:‬

‭ AJ on Twitter:‬‭ https://twitter.com/SEO‬‭ Botify AI Survey:‬

‭ https://www.botify.com/blog/marketing-leaders-want-to-meet-ai-search-head-on-new-surve‬y-results‬

‭ How Many People Search on Google?:‬

‭ https://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-how-often-do-americans-search-google-which-se‬arch-verticals-do-they-use‬

‭ IndexNow:‬‭ https://www.bing.com/indexnow‬

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross sits down with Dr. Pete Meyers of Moz to discuss the ever-changing landscape of SEO, the impact of AI overviews, and how Moz is adapting to a rapidly evolving industry.

They dive into the challenges of innovation in a competitive space, the role of brand authority versus domain authority, and the data-driven future of search marketing. Plus, Dr. Pete shares insights on Moz’s latest tools and the future of tracking Google’s updates.

If you’re in the SEO world, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss.

Show Notes:

00:00 Introduction & Welcome

01:04 Moz’s Position in a Competitive SEO Landscape

02:52 AI Overviews & the Future of SERPs

07:06 MozCast & Google Update Tracking

12:53 The Role of Brand Authority in SEO

19:09 How SEO Has Shifted Over the Years

24:15 Keyword Research & New Moz Tools

30:56 The Decline of Blog Comments & Online Community Shifts

36:41 SEO Data & Attribution Challenges

41:26 What’s Next for Moz?

Resources & Links:

Brand Authority vs Domain Authority during a recent update: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thcapper_i-had-a-theory-from-the-google-leaks-the-activity-7237411717947817985-Nz4V/

Introducing Brand Authority: https://moz.com/blog/introducing-brand-authority

Google’s Update History:https://moz.com/google-algorithm-change

MozCast:https://moz.com/mozcast

MozCon’s on the road in 2025: https://moz.com/blog/mozcon-on-the-road-2025

Dr. Pete on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drpete/

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross sits down with Tim Soulo,‬‭ CMO of Ahrefs, to dive deep into content‬ ‭marketing, SEO, and Ahrefs’ evolving approach to growth. 

Tim shares insights on how Ahrefs‬ built its marketing team, the role of SEO in today’s digital landscape, and why they’re investing‬ in YouTube, LinkedIn, and thought leadership content.‬ ‭ 

They also discuss the challenges of enterprise marketing, the rise of social-first content, and the‬ impact of backlink trends on the SEO industry.‬ ‭ Show Notes:‬ ‭ 

00:00 Intro – Meeting in Chiang Mai SEO‬ ‭ 

00:53 Ahrefs’ Marketing Evolution‬ ‭ 

06:06 SEO vs. Diversification in Marketing‬ ‭ 

10:09 The Role of Technical SEO at Ahrefs‬ ‭ 

12:57 LinkedIn & Social Media Strategy‬ ‭ 

18:10 Scaling Content & Thought Leadership‬ ‭ 

22:31 Going Upmarket: Enterprise Marketing at Ahrefs‬ ‭ 

30:38 The Power of Events & Conferences‬ ‭ 

32:22 Programmatic SEO & Directory Strategies‬ ‭ 

40:31 Backlink Trends & The Changing Web‬ ‭ 

46:55 The Future of Ahrefs Marketing‬ ‭ 

48:24 Announcing Ahrefs Evolve – West Coast Conference‬ ‭ 

Show Links:‬ Ahrefs: Top Website:‬‭ https://ahrefs.com/websites‬ Ahrefs: Data & Studies:‬‭ https://ahrefs.com/blog/category/data-studies/‬ ‭Ahrefs YouTube:‬‭ https://www.youtube.com/c/AhrefsCom‬ Tim Soulo’s LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo‬Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes back Rand Fishkin, co-founder of SparkToro and longtime marketing thought leader, for a candid conversation about the evolution of search, audience research, and the shifting tides of digital marketing. 

Rand shares insights on why SEO’s golden age is behind us, why influence—not traffic—should be marketers’ primary focus, and how PR is making a major comeback. 

He also discusses SparkToro’s growth, lessons from launching an indie video game company, and why understanding audience behavior is more critical than ever. 

Show Notes: 00:00 Welcome Back, Rand! 

01:10 Reflections on Lost and Founder 

02:37 The importance of timing and market demand 

06:48 Venture Capital and Market Trends 

14:34 The Changing Reputation of SEO 

19:27 AI, Search, and Zero-Click Results 28:58 Influence Over Traffic 

38:46 How to Prioritize Marketing Channels 

43:42 The Rise of Digital PR 

49:51 The Future of Search and Content 

Show Links: 
SparkToro https://sparktoro.com/blog/traffic-is-down-revenue-is-up/ 

SparkTogether 2025 https://sparktoro.com/sparktogether 

Rand’s Blog “Traffic Is Down; Revenue Is… Up?" https://sparktoro.com/ 

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected]

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

How do you build SEO strategies that mesh seamlessly with product teams? 

Ross Hudgens chats with Sharanya Srinivasan, Head of SEO, Product at Boatsetter, about combining strong user experience, savvy engineering partnerships, and growth-focused tactics. 

Learn how Sharanya’s approach to A/B testing, internal links, and UX research can help you unlock new levels of organic traffic, no matter how your team is structured.

0:00 Background & Why Product Matters
02:47 Landing in Product-Focused Roles
07:43 Top of Funnel vs. Bottom of Funnel
11:01 A Typical Day in a Product-Led SEO Role
16:40 Technical vs. Product Manager SEO
21:47 Should SEO Sit in Marketing or Product?
26:32 UX & User Research Resources
30:47 A/B Testing for Better User Journeys
39:37 Tools & Tactics for SEO A/B Testing

• NNGroup
• UserTesting.com
• SearchPilot
• Sharanya on LinkedIn 
• Apartments.com related linking example
• Wirecutter “Mentioned above” example

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing

In this episode of Content and Conversation, host Ross Hudgens sits down with Barry Schwartz, President of RustyBrick and a leading voice in SEO.

Barry shares his insights into the latest Google algorithm updates, the future of search rankings, and how businesses can adapt their SEO strategies in 2025 and beyond. Tune in for expert analysis, actionable advice, and a clear  take on the state of search marketing.

00:00 Introduction

01:03 What’s the best story you have from a webmaster contacting you about their SEO situation?

05:44 What’s the biggest ever news story you’ve had on SE Roundtable in terms of visits? Why?

07:59 How do SEOs most use your website?

14:11 What’s your take on the current state of SEO news given the acquisition of Search Engine Land by Semrush?

18:37 What’s your take on what SEO looks like in five years?

29:53 What is your philosophy of how people should treat Google updates?

33:08 How do you edit your content today?

• Search Engine Roundtable’s most popular article ever: https://www.seroundtable.com/boyfriend-spammed-12909.html
• 21st anniversary post: https://www.seroundtable.com/21-years-old-38395.html
• AIO clickthrough data from Glenn Gabe: https://www.gsqi.com/marketing-blog/how-to-track-aio-performance-gsc-manual-action/
• Feedly RSS feeder: https://feedly.com/

Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: [email protected] #seo | #contentmarketing