Guests: Stefan Virag and Robbie Allen — Denver-based fathers, friends, and members of the first self-organized Council in the Fathering From the Heart program. Stefan initiated and led the group; this is his second appearance on the podcast.

In this episode:

[00:00] Welcome — why hearing from "everyday dads," not just parenting experts, matters

[00:01–03] Stefan and Robbie introduce themselves and their families

[00:04–06] Stefan on losing touch with his fatherhood identity, a cold-plunge conversation that sparked the idea, and deciding to start a council

[00:06–07] How Stefan recruited six dads from his kids' school community

[00:07] What a self-organized council is, and how it differs from a Council-led group

[00:07–09] Robbie's hesitation, his wife's encouragement, and what tipped the scale for him

[00:09–11] Dave on the universal "itch" for deeper connection that most dads never act on

[00:11–13] Stefan on regret as motivation, hitting a professional plateau, and investing in himself personally

[00:13–15] How the council shifted Stefan's self-awareness and honesty with his wife

[00:15–17] Robbie on intentional family ritual — a nightly gratitude practice and a father-son camping trip

[00:17–19] Naming the leadership theme: fatherhood as a distinct, complementary role to a partner's

[00:19–21] Noah on each father's "unique flavor" and the value of "uncle-ing" each other's kids

[00:21–22] Robbie on being unexpectedly nourished by in-person, face-to-face community

[00:22–26] The module quote "all change is loss, and all loss must be mourned" — Robbie's journey from resisting it to owning it

[00:26–29] Stefan on "the goal is not perfection," losing a council member to a move, and the Wielding the Sword module (before / during / after)

[00:29–33] Responding to skeptics — "why do you even need a father's group?" — and the idea of communities of practice

[00:33–35] Closing reflections and thanks

Key quotes:

"The goal is not perfection." — Stefan

"Regret, deep regret, that I would be facing if I hadn't made this commitment was more uncomfortable to me than trying it." — Stefan

"All change is loss, and all loss must be mourned." — quoted from the curriculum

"Families need leadership, and the leadership role for a father is different than the leadership role of your partner." — Robbie

"The group gets a little smarter than any one individual." — Dave, on communities of practice

Mentioned in this episode:

Fathering From the Heart — Council of Fathers' 12-week program

Program modules referenced: rituals/ceremony, mourning and loss, wielding the sword

Self-organized councils vs. Council-facilitated groups

We just finished our first full cohort of Fathering from the Heart, and we couldn't let that pass without sitting down to talk about what actually happened — what the dads said, what moved them, and what we're taking with us into the next round.

In this episode, Noah and Dave reflect on:

What made this cohort different — over 30 dads across five groups (some online, some meeting in person in Boulder, Denver, and Paonia), all working through the 12-module program together

The hunger that surprised us — not just for connection, but for intentional connection; the kind that doesn't leave you feeling empty afterward

The warrior archetype reframed — willingness to feel pain in service of a greater cause, and why that's exactly what's needed right now

Discipline as devotion — why showing up weekly, even when you don't want to, is one of the most fathering things a man can do

The magic of ritual — what happens in a container that's been set with intention, and why that's more counter-cultural than it sounds in an age of AI and infinite scroll

Redefining the role — moving from default autopilot (or TV archetypes) to consciously choosing the kind of father you actually want to be

Fathering ancestrally vs. traditionally — finding the gold that's been buried, and surfacing the blueprint for wholeness that lives in our lineage

We also talk about what's coming: Cohort 2 launches September 17th. If you've been feeling the pull, it's not too early to start thinking about who in your life might be ready to do this with you.

Get on the waitlist: programs.counciloffathers.com Subscribe to our newsletter (website or Substack) for info on summer live workshops Say hello: [email protected]

opics Covered:

The Core Tension (00:05:00 - 00:12:00)

Finding the sweet spot between empowerment and entitlement

Two extremes to avoid: kids running the show vs. overly obedient/disempowered children

The spectrum from "too much responsibility" (scary lack of boundaries) to "no autonomy" (outsourcing will)

Parenting styles: overly directive vs. overly following, with "guiding" as the middle path

Modeling assertiveness vs. aggression or passivity

Building Critical Thinking Skills (00:12:00 - 00:19:00)

Preparing children for nefarious influences in the world

Providing foundation of principles vs. controlling exposure

The importance of open communication channels

Creating safe space for mistakes and "failing forward"

Avoiding vilification of different beliefs/influences

Relationship as Foundation (00:19:00 - 00:27:00)

Keeping the "bank account full" through positive connection

Fun, play, and genuine quality time

Modeling vulnerability and transparency

Proactive conversations about social dynamics

Sharing your own struggles and repair processes

John Gottman's "positive sentiment override"

Essential Skills for Empowerment (00:27:00 - 00:35:00)

Working with difficult emotions

Cultivating curiosity as an engaged posture

Skepticism vs. cynicism - maintaining openness while questioning

The trap of "anti-gullibility" (thinking you're immune to manipulation)

Acknowledging our human desire to be seduced/led

The challenge of "reading the label from inside the jar"

Practical Wisdom (00:35:00 - 00:41:00)

Balancing self-esteem with humility

Seeking external reference points without giving away your truth

Dave's example of Rafi being vulnerable about needing support

Self-compassion as strength, not avoidance of accountability

Topics Covered:

Upcoming Council of Fathers offerings (8-week cohort, online workshop, and January program launch)

The James Hollis quote on the three losses men experience

Why male friendship and emotional intimacy are vital for wholeness

The cost of being disconnected from one’s inner voice

How cultural definitions of success can hollow out a man’s soul

The antidote: connection, community, and sacred fatherhood

Mentioned in This Episode:

Under Saturn’s Shadow by James Hollis

Iron John by Robert Bly

Council of Fathers offerings and upcoming events: counciloffathers.com

Register for the upcoming workshop, Sacred Fatherhood: Healing Triggers, Breaking Cycles → programs.counciloffathers.com

Journal Prompts:

And so you can sit down and think about a time that you felt disempowered and you can think about and feel into what that felt like and what was happening in that situation. You can think of a time when you felt empowered and powerful and what, what did that feel like and what was happening in that situation. And then you can also think of a time you shifted from feeling disempowered to feeling empowered and reflect on how that happened, what you did, what was done, what, you know, what, just what happened. And last, , how do you want to be as a dad in relation to power? What do you want to teach your children or child about power?

Implicitly through modeling practices that you engage with in your family, and explicitly through age appropriate Conversations. And then I'll leave you guys with a little exercise, which is to find what What being empowered feels like in your body? Where do you feel it? In your chest? In your heart?

In your arms? In your belly? In your head? In your legs? What does it feel like? Is it bright? Is it heavy? Is it dense? Is there somewhere where it's emanating from? And find that feeling and, and practice it and remember it and learn it and come back to it two, three, four times a day. Just take a minute. Take a deep breath and just like, feel it.

And then notice, does doing that before I pick up my kids from school or before I leave my room in the morning to start the whole breakfast, lunch, dinner, , just getting to school on time routine. Does that change anything about that? Does it change anything when I get home from work and, , kind of enter into the chaos of dinner or whatnot?

Just noticing, just touching into my sense of empowerment. How does that impact my day and my family and my partnership?

In this episode, we dive into something profound yet often unspoken—the journey of fathers connecting not only with each other but with something deeper, something sacred. Here Noah shares his perspective on creating a space for dads to explore connection beyond the everyday—a sacred space, if you will.

Together, Noah and Dave unpack what it means to bring a sense of purpose and spirit into fatherhood, an idea that feels both challenging and refreshing in today’s fast-paced world. Noah talks about making the invisible visible, being intentional about the values that anchor his life, and how creating sacred moments can resonate within family life and community. From lighting a candle before a family meal to cultivating deeper connections in a circle of dads, this conversation invites you to consider ways of introducing both playfulness and purpose into the rhythms of family and fatherhood.

If you’ve ever felt like there’s more to fatherhood than what we see on the surface, or if you’re curious about ways to elevate and ground your connections, this episode is for you.

In this episode, Noah and Dave dive into the topic of finding meaning in fatherhood. They explore how fatherhood can be more than just fulfilling day-to-day responsibilities and what it means to truly embrace the role. They discuss the challenges fathers face, the importance of being present, and how fathers can grow through the experience. It’s a deep conversation that encourages fathers to reflect on their journey, prioritize meaningful connections with their children, and find purpose in every step of the way.

Get all the information and the transcript at www.counciloffathers.com

In this candid episode we talk with Jenny Sandler, a Parent and Support Counselor and Coach, about parenting, communication, development in children, and how we grow and change as parents over the years.

Learn more at wwwww.counciloffathers.com

We talk about:

Exploring the relationship with anger and how it manifests in parenthood

Normalizing and welcoming anger as a feeling

The importance of repair in relationships and using anger as teaching moments

The demonization of anger and the ambiguity surrounding its expression

The value of community in parenting and the role of extended family and friends

Embracing different developmental stages of children and appreciating the joys and challenges of each age

The significance of understanding and connecting with children on a personal level

The evolving knowledge and resources available for parents compared to previous generations

The loneliness and confusion that can come with being a new parent

The ongoing learning and growth process in parenting and relationships

In this Episode, Dave and Noah explore our psychological shadows and unpack how our unconscious minds drive our feelings and behaviors in ways that can impede connection.

They share personal examples of how the shadow impacts them. They also discuss possible interventions to uncover the shadows in order to become better partners and parents.

Dave and Noah also offer insights into how we can limit how much repression happens for our children so they can express as there true and authentic selves from an earlier age.

Find all the details and full transcript at www.counciloffathers.com

This conversation revolves around the various purposes and struggles that fathers experience in their parenting journey. They discuss the importance of finding balance in fulfilling different roles and the identity of being a father. The group also emphasizes the healing and personal growth that comes from being part of a supportive community of other fathers. They share their struggles as fathers, such as feeling overwhelmed, lacking presence and quality time, and not giving themselves enough space and self-care. They also highlight the joys and confidence that arise from being part of a supportive group. The conversation concludes with a message to fathers and mothers, encouraging them to seek support and connect with others who can provide guidance and understanding in their parenting journey.