Council of Fathers

Rather than a typical hosting format, this episode is structured as a series of pointed questions Michael, Marketing Handyman, a friend of 15 years, and a recent graduate of the Fathering From the Heart program. This episode draws out the “why” behind Council of Fathers: what it means to call fatherhood sacred, why so many men are fathering “from the hip” instead of on purpose, and what actually shifts when dads stop chasing an image of the perfect father and start doing the inner work instead.

The conversation moves through several core Fathering From the Heart ideas: fatherhood as a path to individuation and wholeness; the isolation epidemic among men and why being witnessed in community is medicine; the difference between striving to be a “good dad” and becoming a “conscious” one; shadow work and the practice of turning toward what we’d rather avoid; and the through-line that self-love and self-acceptance — not perfection — are what a father actually models and transmits to his kids. It closes with a practical overview of the three ways to move through the 12-module Fathering From the Heart program.

Key Themes

Fatherhood as a sacred, mythic path — not a to-do list, but a container for individuation and growth.

“Fathering from the hip” vs. fathering on purpose: intention as the whole difference.

The isolation epidemic in men, and why being witnessed by other dads is medicine, not indulgence.

Reframing “good dad” as “conscious dad” — awareness, choicefulness, and making the unconscious conscious (Jung).

The trap of perfectionism, and the acorn metaphor: wholeness at every stage, not just at the end.

Shadow work: turning to face what scares us instead of splitting it off or pushing it down.

Repair over prevention — modeling resilience by owning mistakes rather than avoiding them.

Self-love and self-acceptance as a father’s deepest, most transferable gift to his children.

00:00  Intro — Michael Rosenzweig (“the Marketing Handyman”), a friend of Noah’s for 15 years and recent Fathering From the Heart graduate, interviews Noah and Dave.

00:01  What does it mean to say fatherhood can be a sacred role? Defining “sacred” as something deeper than the material, transcending time and space — even amid soccer games and packed lunches.

00:02–03  Fatherhood as a path to individuation, wholeness, and growth — an intentional journey through life, not just a role.

00:04–05  “Fathering from the hip” (reflexive, reactive) vs. fathering from the heart (on purpose). Living fatherhood as story/myth — references to Iron John, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter.

00:05–07  What fathers are hungry for that they’re not getting: real depth of connection, being witnessed, and not walking the process alone. Fathering From the Heart as an intentional respite — an hour and a half set aside for oneself.

00:08–11  How modern fathers have been taught (or not taught) to show up — caught between repeating their own father and mimicking their partner. Fathering as leadership, and the need for a personal vision. Cultural models of masculine leadership (superheroes, stoicism) vs. the show This Is Us and the character Jack as a flawed-but-real father figure.

00:11–14  The epidemic of isolation among men. Why community and honest conversation matter — how Council of Fathers itself grew out of Noah and Dave’s own friendship deepening once they started having these conversations. Isolation breeds shame: assuming you’re the only one struggling.

00:14–15  Story of a friend who “had it all together” and turned out to be cheating on his wife — the cost of the facade, and what opens up in real friendship and community.

00:15–17  Why it’s hard for dads to admit “I don’t know what I’m doing,” and why witnessing that in community is powerful. “We’re all bozos on the same bus.” The goal isn’t to become a better dad so much as a more whole, more integrated one.

00:17–20  Culture of right answers vs. a culture of repair. Owning and learning from mistakes rather than avoiding them. D.W. Winnicott’s “good enough” parent — modeling resilience, not perfection.

00:20–22  Dads comparing themselves to moms and projecting more competence onto their partner. The value of each parent bringing their own distinct gifts rather than trying to mirror the other.

00:22–23  The collective wisdom of the group — dads often walk away with a gem from another participant, not just from the facilitators.

00:23–25  Reframing “good dad” as “conscious dad”: awareness, engagement, choicefulness, intentionality. Language used in the program — “fathering on purpose,” “soulful fathering.”

00:25–27  On “conscious” as a loaded/co-opted word. Carl Jung: “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life, and you’ll call it fate.” Becoming aware of what unconsciously drives parenting reactions (the “my dad’s voice just came out of my mouth” moment).

00:27–30  Is striving to “improve” itself a trap? The difference between growth driven by “I’m not good enough” and growth from a place of wholeness. The acorn metaphor — every stage of the oak tree is already complete.

00:30–32  Shadow material: the dream image of turning to face what’s chasing you, which drains its power. What we resist and split off is what runs us.

00:32–33  Dave reframes “good dad” as “vanilla dad” — wanting instead to be “rocky road,” “funky donkey”: funny, adventurous, whole. What it looks like to bring your whole self into parenting, beyond provider/protector/problem-solver.

00:33–36  Vulnerability, earnestness, playfulness, and creativity as parts of whole fathering. Noah on writing his father’s eulogy and realizing the most impactful thing wasn’t provision or protection — it was that his dad experienced joy in his presence.

00:36–39  What each wishes someone had told them before becoming a dad: the indescribable, overwhelming wave of love; trusting the process. Noah’s story of the men’s circle and letters from his father and grandfather before his first child was born (their downloadable initiation-ceremony guide is referenced here).

00:39–41  Jim Gaffigan’s line: “Parenting is the only thing you can do for 13 years and all of a sudden be bad at it” (re: adolescence). The 12 Fathering From the Heart modules described as “what we would have done differently.” Repair valued over prevention.

00:41–44  Seeing your own unresolved stuff reflected in your child — and the invitation to model self-acceptance and self-compassion rather than harshness, since “your brain can’t tell the difference” between how you talk to yourself and how you’ll end up talking to your kid.

00:44–46  The love a father can express is shaped by what he hasn’t yet learned to love in himself. The hoped-for takeaway from the program: more self-love and self-acceptance. Noah’s kids’ answer to “what would make me a better dad?” — take better care of yourself.

00:46–50  Wrap-up: where to find Council of Fathers / Fathering From the Heart, the three ways to do the program (self-paced, guided group with Noah & Dave, or self-organized group), the facilitator’s guidebook, mentorship calls, 1:1 work, and how to reach out. Closing thanks to Michael.

Guests: Stefan Virag and Robbie Allen — Denver-based fathers, friends, and members of the first self-organized Council in the Fathering From the Heart program. Stefan initiated and led the group; this is his second appearance on the podcast.

In this episode:

[00:00] Welcome — why hearing from "everyday dads," not just parenting experts, matters

[00:01–03] Stefan and Robbie introduce themselves and their families

[00:04–06] Stefan on losing touch with his fatherhood identity, a cold-plunge conversation that sparked the idea, and deciding to start a council

[00:06–07] How Stefan recruited six dads from his kids' school community

[00:07] What a self-organized council is, and how it differs from a Council-led group

[00:07–09] Robbie's hesitation, his wife's encouragement, and what tipped the scale for him

[00:09–11] Dave on the universal "itch" for deeper connection that most dads never act on

[00:11–13] Stefan on regret as motivation, hitting a professional plateau, and investing in himself personally

[00:13–15] How the council shifted Stefan's self-awareness and honesty with his wife

[00:15–17] Robbie on intentional family ritual — a nightly gratitude practice and a father-son camping trip

[00:17–19] Naming the leadership theme: fatherhood as a distinct, complementary role to a partner's

[00:19–21] Noah on each father's "unique flavor" and the value of "uncle-ing" each other's kids

[00:21–22] Robbie on being unexpectedly nourished by in-person, face-to-face community

[00:22–26] The module quote "all change is loss, and all loss must be mourned" — Robbie's journey from resisting it to owning it

[00:26–29] Stefan on "the goal is not perfection," losing a council member to a move, and the Wielding the Sword module (before / during / after)

[00:29–33] Responding to skeptics — "why do you even need a father's group?" — and the idea of communities of practice

[00:33–35] Closing reflections and thanks

Key quotes:

"The goal is not perfection." — Stefan

"Regret, deep regret, that I would be facing if I hadn't made this commitment was more uncomfortable to me than trying it." — Stefan

"All change is loss, and all loss must be mourned." — quoted from the curriculum

"Families need leadership, and the leadership role for a father is different than the leadership role of your partner." — Robbie

"The group gets a little smarter than any one individual." — Dave, on communities of practice

Mentioned in this episode:

Fathering From the Heart — Council of Fathers' 12-week program

Program modules referenced: rituals/ceremony, mourning and loss, wielding the sword

Self-organized councils vs. Council-facilitated groups

We just finished our first full cohort of Fathering from the Heart, and we couldn't let that pass without sitting down to talk about what actually happened — what the dads said, what moved them, and what we're taking with us into the next round.

In this episode, Noah and Dave reflect on:

What made this cohort different — over 30 dads across five groups (some online, some meeting in person in Boulder, Denver, and Paonia), all working through the 12-module program together

The hunger that surprised us — not just for connection, but for intentional connection; the kind that doesn't leave you feeling empty afterward

The warrior archetype reframed — willingness to feel pain in service of a greater cause, and why that's exactly what's needed right now

Discipline as devotion — why showing up weekly, even when you don't want to, is one of the most fathering things a man can do

The magic of ritual — what happens in a container that's been set with intention, and why that's more counter-cultural than it sounds in an age of AI and infinite scroll

Redefining the role — moving from default autopilot (or TV archetypes) to consciously choosing the kind of father you actually want to be

Fathering ancestrally vs. traditionally — finding the gold that's been buried, and surfacing the blueprint for wholeness that lives in our lineage

We also talk about what's coming: Cohort 2 launches September 17th. If you've been feeling the pull, it's not too early to start thinking about who in your life might be ready to do this with you.

Get on the waitlist: programs.counciloffathers.com Subscribe to our newsletter (website or Substack) for info on summer live workshops Say hello: [email protected]

opics Covered:

The Core Tension (00:05:00 - 00:12:00)

Finding the sweet spot between empowerment and entitlement

Two extremes to avoid: kids running the show vs. overly obedient/disempowered children

The spectrum from "too much responsibility" (scary lack of boundaries) to "no autonomy" (outsourcing will)

Parenting styles: overly directive vs. overly following, with "guiding" as the middle path

Modeling assertiveness vs. aggression or passivity

Building Critical Thinking Skills (00:12:00 - 00:19:00)

Preparing children for nefarious influences in the world

Providing foundation of principles vs. controlling exposure

The importance of open communication channels

Creating safe space for mistakes and "failing forward"

Avoiding vilification of different beliefs/influences

Relationship as Foundation (00:19:00 - 00:27:00)

Keeping the "bank account full" through positive connection

Fun, play, and genuine quality time

Modeling vulnerability and transparency

Proactive conversations about social dynamics

Sharing your own struggles and repair processes

John Gottman's "positive sentiment override"

Essential Skills for Empowerment (00:27:00 - 00:35:00)

Working with difficult emotions

Cultivating curiosity as an engaged posture

Skepticism vs. cynicism - maintaining openness while questioning

The trap of "anti-gullibility" (thinking you're immune to manipulation)

Acknowledging our human desire to be seduced/led

The challenge of "reading the label from inside the jar"

Practical Wisdom (00:35:00 - 00:41:00)

Balancing self-esteem with humility

Seeking external reference points without giving away your truth

Dave's example of Rafi being vulnerable about needing support

Self-compassion as strength, not avoidance of accountability

Topics Covered:

Upcoming Council of Fathers offerings (8-week cohort, online workshop, and January program launch)

The James Hollis quote on the three losses men experience

Why male friendship and emotional intimacy are vital for wholeness

The cost of being disconnected from one’s inner voice

How cultural definitions of success can hollow out a man’s soul

The antidote: connection, community, and sacred fatherhood

Mentioned in This Episode:

Under Saturn’s Shadow by James Hollis

Iron John by Robert Bly

Council of Fathers offerings and upcoming events: counciloffathers.com

Register for the upcoming workshop, Sacred Fatherhood: Healing Triggers, Breaking Cycles → programs.counciloffathers.com

Journal Prompts:

And so you can sit down and think about a time that you felt disempowered and you can think about and feel into what that felt like and what was happening in that situation. You can think of a time when you felt empowered and powerful and what, what did that feel like and what was happening in that situation. And then you can also think of a time you shifted from feeling disempowered to feeling empowered and reflect on how that happened, what you did, what was done, what, you know, what, just what happened. And last, , how do you want to be as a dad in relation to power? What do you want to teach your children or child about power?

Implicitly through modeling practices that you engage with in your family, and explicitly through age appropriate Conversations. And then I'll leave you guys with a little exercise, which is to find what What being empowered feels like in your body? Where do you feel it? In your chest? In your heart?

In your arms? In your belly? In your head? In your legs? What does it feel like? Is it bright? Is it heavy? Is it dense? Is there somewhere where it's emanating from? And find that feeling and, and practice it and remember it and learn it and come back to it two, three, four times a day. Just take a minute. Take a deep breath and just like, feel it.

And then notice, does doing that before I pick up my kids from school or before I leave my room in the morning to start the whole breakfast, lunch, dinner, , just getting to school on time routine. Does that change anything about that? Does it change anything when I get home from work and, , kind of enter into the chaos of dinner or whatnot?

Just noticing, just touching into my sense of empowerment. How does that impact my day and my family and my partnership?

In this episode, we dive into something profound yet often unspoken—the journey of fathers connecting not only with each other but with something deeper, something sacred. Here Noah shares his perspective on creating a space for dads to explore connection beyond the everyday—a sacred space, if you will.

Together, Noah and Dave unpack what it means to bring a sense of purpose and spirit into fatherhood, an idea that feels both challenging and refreshing in today’s fast-paced world. Noah talks about making the invisible visible, being intentional about the values that anchor his life, and how creating sacred moments can resonate within family life and community. From lighting a candle before a family meal to cultivating deeper connections in a circle of dads, this conversation invites you to consider ways of introducing both playfulness and purpose into the rhythms of family and fatherhood.

If you’ve ever felt like there’s more to fatherhood than what we see on the surface, or if you’re curious about ways to elevate and ground your connections, this episode is for you.

In this episode, Noah and Dave dive into the topic of finding meaning in fatherhood. They explore how fatherhood can be more than just fulfilling day-to-day responsibilities and what it means to truly embrace the role. They discuss the challenges fathers face, the importance of being present, and how fathers can grow through the experience. It’s a deep conversation that encourages fathers to reflect on their journey, prioritize meaningful connections with their children, and find purpose in every step of the way.

Get all the information and the transcript at www.counciloffathers.com

In this candid episode we talk with Jenny Sandler, a Parent and Support Counselor and Coach, about parenting, communication, development in children, and how we grow and change as parents over the years.

Learn more at wwwww.counciloffathers.com

We talk about:

Exploring the relationship with anger and how it manifests in parenthood

Normalizing and welcoming anger as a feeling

The importance of repair in relationships and using anger as teaching moments

The demonization of anger and the ambiguity surrounding its expression

The value of community in parenting and the role of extended family and friends

Embracing different developmental stages of children and appreciating the joys and challenges of each age

The significance of understanding and connecting with children on a personal level

The evolving knowledge and resources available for parents compared to previous generations

The loneliness and confusion that can come with being a new parent

The ongoing learning and growth process in parenting and relationships

In this Episode, Dave and Noah explore our psychological shadows and unpack how our unconscious minds drive our feelings and behaviors in ways that can impede connection.

They share personal examples of how the shadow impacts them. They also discuss possible interventions to uncover the shadows in order to become better partners and parents.

Dave and Noah also offer insights into how we can limit how much repression happens for our children so they can express as there true and authentic selves from an earlier age.