Part Two picks up with the leader’s job of clarity and a practical discussion of value types (core vs. permission-to-play, aspirational, accidental) and how language choices either create dissonance or drive behavior. Ann and David explore how to translate purpose and values into daily practice—so culture lives in what people actually experience, not just what’s printed on the wall.

Ann Melinger, CEO of bink, joins David to chart the shift from “engagement” to culture—and why experiences, not perks, reveal who you really are under pressure. Ann introduces bink’s culture compass (values, behaviors, beliefs/mission/vision, experiences) and makes the case for leadership alignment, manager enablement, and writing behaviors instead of aspirational “we” statements.

Part Two picks up with John Bollman’s answer about Pella’s six culture accelerators and the link between culture and performance. John shares how Pella’s intentional focus on leadership development, recruiting for fit, and integrating acquisitions has helped the company outperform its industry for years. He also reflects on lessons learned throughout his career — and why he believes the greatest gift a leader can give is a culture where people can thrive.

John Bollman, CHRO at Pella Corporation, joins David for a conversation about how leadership and culture shape a company’s long-term success. In Part One, John traces his career from law to HR, the early lessons he learned at Whirlpool, and how Pella set out to define a culture anchored in caring, learning, and results. The episode ends just as David asks about the connection between culture and results — a question John answers in Part Two.

Part Two opens with Nathan Hall’s answer to the question: what do people most often get wrong about DEI? From there, Nathan reframes diversity, equity, and inclusion as foundational to all culture work, not separate initiatives. He explains why friction can actually fuel creativity and progress, and he previews Culture Check’s new Work of Us framework — designed to help leaders lower the temperature and align their teams to move forward together.

In Part One, David speaks with Nathan Hall, founder and CEO of Culture Check, about his path from sociology student to business leader, and how his turnaround work at Simple Story shaped his approach to culture. Nathan reflects on vulnerability, belonging, and the personal roots of his leadership philosophy. The conversation closes with David asking Nathan to weigh in on the biggest misconceptions about DEI — a question Nathan answers when Part Two begins.

In Part Two of their conversation, David and Dustin pick up the story with his leap into entrepreneurship. Dustin explains what it’s like to buy and run a company while writing the playbook in real time, the hard truths he learned along the way, and how that experience ultimately led to the creation of Persistently — and to joining forces with CultureWise.

David sits down with Dustin Campbell, co-founder of Persistence Management Holdings and Persistently, to unpack his journey from investment banking to private equity — and the powerful lessons he learned along the way. In Part One, Dustin shares how a turnaround mentor reshaped his thinking about systems and culture, and why those insights convinced him that culture is more than a differentiator — it’s the driver of performance.

In this second part of their conversation, David and Ari Weinzweig dive deeper into two specific components of the Zingerman’s Community of Businesses: their training arm ZingTrain, and their company’s 34 beliefs. Ari weighs in on how much a growing organization should reflect the essence of its founders.

Since their modest opening in 1982, Zingerman’s Delicatessen has cemented its place as an institution in Ann Arbor, Michigan — rejecting the typical franchise model for food retailers and instead growing into what is today known as the Zingerman’s Community of Businesses. David sits down with Zingerman’s co-founder and co-owner Ari Weinzweig to talk about this incredible journey. In this first of a two-part conversation, Ari distills open-book management and anarchism in business, and explains how he finds culture-building “as much a creative act as cooking.”