Tommy talks with New York Times reporter David Sanger about the new world of cyber warfare. From North Korea's attack on Sony to targeting of Iran's nuclear program and Russia's invasion of Ukraine, cyber attacks are increasingly used first in war even though there's no rules of engagement and little public debate.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.