Former Obama speechwriter David Litt and his brother-in-law, Matt, couldn't be more different. But during the pandemic, Matt taught Litt how to surf. The time they spent together out on the water created what Litt refers to as "neutral ground" – a space that isn't coded as liberal or conservative. In today's episode, Litt speaks with NPR's Scott Simon about his new memoir, It's Only Drowning. They discuss the way surfing changed Litt's approach to fear, political discussions, and his perceptions of Matt.

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