Dear Corner Office

Michele Heyward
0:00
Software. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for joining me. I am here tonight with Lisa Anderson. Hey, Lisa,

LIsa

0:08
hey Michelle, how are you?

Michele Heyward
0:12
I am good and yourself.

LIsa

0:15
I'm doing great.

Michele Heyward
0:16
Okay, so everybody, Lisa is a fantastic career coach. And she has many years, over 20 years in human resources. So she is a Chief Human Resource Officer, she is She has worked her way up to the C suite. And as a career coach, she understands the barriers and seeing the barriers that underrepresented women have encountered in the workplace. And so I have Lisa doing our Saturday training, which is your voice, your courage and presence for I'm strike I'm sorry, Your voice courage and presence strategies for women leaders. And it's really focusing on executive presence. So Lisa, I want to back up for a minute. And the backup is, what is executive presence?

Lisa
1:11
Oh, good question. Because what the executive presence sometimes is, it is hard to explain. Some people have difficulty putting their finger on it. But you know, what it is when you see it. So it really is about the your physical presence, the mental presence, and there's an emotional component to, but it's really about having that confidence, sort of when you walk in that room, you kind of command the room without even opening your mouth. And love it.

1:49
So, you know, so a lot of people, it's like, well, what is executive presence? What is executive presence? But that really is it you know, and when you try to explain it to people is like, well, it's kind of sorta, but then you look at someone and you witness someone and you're like, Wow, he or she has great executive presence. But it is that three component having all three physical, mental and emotional working together to put that confidence out there.

Michele Heyward
2:17
I love it. I love it. So let's talk about competence for women in the workplace, specifically in male dominated industries. And I don't know how many of them aren't male dominated, dominated. But we were talking about science, technology engineering.

Lisa
2:37
Yeah, so a lot of my career as an HR professional, it was as I was growing up in male dominated environments, mostly technology companies, mostly government contracting engineering type, firms. And, you know, I've had my own experiences of being the only female at the table at that leadership table. And more than often the only woman of color at the, at the table. So and it can be very intimidating, especially if you're the only female in the room, and the men are sort of Abba dominating the conversation, and you have something to contribute. And really getting your voice out there, along with the credibility, you know, to be able to have the folks stop talking to listen to what you have to say, because you have something of value to add to that conversation. So that's why I have a passion for this type of work, helping women get their voice out there, and get that confidence to be able to say, you know, what everybody is saying is blue, I think is red. You know, and here's the reason why have people listen, and and and want to hear your point of view.

Michele Heyward
4:00
Exactly, exactly. I love that we have a comment. I always saw executive presence as the secret sauce of charisma. And that's what I was thinking like, it's the charisma is it's sort of the charisma when people like, oh, but it's also I want to say people are eager to hear you and want to know your thoughts. They like Well, I don't know, I think such and such would have Michelle would have a good idea about what's going on. And when they like, Oh, well, why would Why isn't she at the meeting? Or Where is she? And and it's always interesting, when that would happen to me and be like, Oh, we need to know x, y and z is like, Are you having a meeting now? Like, oh, I'm busy. So you should have thought about that before. But But oftentimes, when that happens, they're like, we should have invited you and you weren't included. Your boy was missing. Yes, the room

Lisa
4:58
and and that You know, and they recognize that your voice like, Well, okay, well, whereas Michelle, but I love what the person said about the secret sauce, because another part to that is approachability. Yes. Not only having the executive presence right to be able to quit, because I see and witness a lot of people that have presence, but they're not approachable.

Michele Heyward
5:22
Yes. And so

Lisa
5:24
then there's this kind of awkward moment where, you know, like, Oh, can I can I say something to you know, the person, you know, so it's so it is you know about the physical, the mental, the emotional, but then there's an approachability, that needs to be there to where people feel comfortable, and coming to you and speaking with you.

Michele Heyward
5:48
And I think that's the hard part, especially for black and darker skin. Women of Color is the the biases are, we're angry, we're unapproachable. And introverted person is even more difficult. Because you may not make eye contact with people you can really just make stay in your cubicle, your work area and do your job and go home. And they're not approachable, that's really their personality. And once they get to know you, and they connect with you, it is really easy to understand them and really took to engage with them. So it can you talk a little bit a bit about those biases that that underrepresented women of color will will encounter. Oh, absolutely. So

Lisa
6:30
you hit on one, you know, the angry woman. And you're right, everyone is not an extrovert. So introverts, you know, the networking piece may not come as easy, right? But there's other ways that introverts can still show that, hey, you know, I might not be the person in the room, like, you know, the social butterfly, you know, like, sometimes extroverts get that label. But yet, I still am approachable, and absolutely, I might not connect with everybody in the room. But I love making a connection with one on one. And so that, you know, with introverts that's more comfortable, you know, really having that one on one, as opposed to, you know, social butterflies throughout the room or the event, right? So another bias, sort of a bias that women we get, especially in male dominated environments, because we're quiet, we may be quiet, or we don't have anything to say. Or we try to put our idea on the table and someone take the idea and run with it. Exactly. I've witnessed and seen that. And experienced that myself, you know, I'm trying to put a point on the table, and then somebody comes in, pick my point up and start running with it as if it was their point.

Michele Heyward
7:54
And I did in the room. And that's happening to another woman that's like, you know what, Carol? That was a great idea. I'm glad I like her her idea. Yeah, she said 20 minutes ago. Yeah. Oh, and so it. So it also is great when you're able to have one other person in that room, so I'm not going to take away your secrets in your time.

8:17
Don't

Michele Heyward
8:21
I'm not gonna learn that from Lisa, I might have learned that. So, so what what I'm really excited about Lisa. So Lisa is our speaker for Saturday's conference, which is under estimating women in STEM, mid level executive conference, where we are going to spend three and a half Lisa, Lisa wants four. But I've only given a three and a half. And we're gonna take a lunch break, starting at 10am on Saturday, we are definitely going to spend time not just learning what executive presence is, but really practice know, you tell him what you don't want to teach

Lisa
9:01
me, let me go. So what we're going to be doing Saturday, I put my note. So first of all, because it's your voice, courage and presence. So I am going to actually introduce something new around how do you really find your voice? And so some tools and techniques around finding your voice and supporting your leadership voice because all of us everyone has a leadership voice. Then the next thing so what does courage look like in a male dominated environment? And does it look different? So because suppose you're not in a male dominated environment. Suppose you're in a female dominated environment, this courage look different. Right? So we're going to kind of explore that the differences you know, between you know, a male dominated environment and and, you know, not a female dominated environment and then And we're going to explore what traits support and you know, executive presence. How do you increase it if you're trying to work on that? And what are the traits that really support you having a strong executive presence? So and in the training is gonna be interactive now cuz I'm not gonna be talking.

10:25
Right?

10:27
Because I want to hear about, you know, your experiences, you know, the women experiences so we can really dig deep. So yeah, I'm super excited. Super excited about Saturday.

Michele Heyward
10:38
So I'm gonna read Shelley's comment and then I come back to I think it's donata. Shelley said people often thought I was a pushover because I'm an introvert. And when I learned the hard way that I'm from Detroit all day.

10:56
I love it.

Michele Heyward
10:58
I would agree. She's from Detroit. Okay. Detroit all day, she bought a left a long time ago, the city of Detroit but Detroit did not leave her. Okay. Oh,

Lisa
11:09
wait, tell it. What's her name? I'm sorry. Sally, I'm married to a Detroit man. So I know.

Michele Heyward
11:20
Okay, Shelley, she knows she knows exactly what you're talking about. Okay. All right. The question is, why is it that some women have to get to the place where we have nothing left to lose before we feel competent enough to stand up and be authentic with our voice? Oh, that's

Lisa
11:37
a great question. You know, culture is very important, too. So my question would be, you know, what kind of culture are you working in? Because, you know, I'm fully aware, especially being an HR, you can be in some toxic cultures where, you know, you feel like you're, you're swimming upstream every day, and that's when it starts to wear on you, and wear on your personal psyche. You know, those are the environments that, you know, when I work with clients, I said, Okay, what kind of environment are you in? And is it worth it? You know, so, um, you know, when I hear that person describe, you know, why do I have to feel like, I have to leave it all out there, you know, we really, you know, want to take a look at how do you, you know, survive in a culture like that. So, if you know, that person comes on, but those are the kind of questions I want to hear more about. So I can give some strategies and some tips on how you survived that. And hopefully, you're not in a culture where you're surviving, you want to be thriving.

12:51
Right?


12:53
You know, and I get it, right, we're in a pandemic, and people can't just move easily right now. But you know, how do you at least survive until we get to a point where you feel comfortable? And making a transition if you decide to do that? But yeah, I don't like when I hear women say, you know, I'm at my wit's end. And I just feel like it's always a struggle, you know, to to make a difference. And you really got to take a look at the culture that you're working in.

Michele Heyward
13:26
Let last week session we did. We had two speakers write a resume, with Nicolette, and then we had Casey a third. And she was literally literally talking about racial trauma, how to heal from racial trauma in corporate America. And so when you say survival, that is usually us trying to survive through the trauma we are in so well, it's just a microaggression you got to think about how many beestings if it's one, two, or if you get stung multiple times a day is toxic to your body? Yes, even you may not even be allergic to bee stings. But when you have so many of them it is toxic to your body. So when you're so when we started out with how to heal from racial trauma, because we're going to go we go through so much of it in the workplace, how to run it and identifying it, right Shelly was in that one that Shelly love that session because it's very practical to think she could you could do every day. But now like you say, how do you show up? And that executive presence Are you thriving or surviving and understanding that companies that organization's culture so I think it's hard to you know, have confidence

Lisa
14:35
and you know, have executive presence when you feel that way? When you feel like, you know, good day, you know, every day it's a struggle. Yes, no, that does nothing to for your confidence, and being able to you know, confidently show up. You know, when you're working in that kind of an environment

Michele Heyward
14:57
or you can sleep soundly Friday and Saturday night. Any night, you can't you can't sleep at all. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa
15:04
When you're experiencing those kinds of things, you know, when you, you know, or the Monday drive when we used to drive into work, you know, the Monday drive, you know, even pulling up to the parking space, you know, you got to, like, say a prayer before you go in like,

Michele Heyward
15:21
you like, I gotta play some Fred Hammond. I gotta pray to work. I gotta do some praise, dancing in the car. And let's see some real good gospel before I get out.

Lisa
15:34
To make sure I can go in and you know, and not, you know, again, back to the stereotype, not go in and not end up being perceived as the angry black woman.

Michele Heyward
15:46
Yeah. And and it's interesting, you say that we have to Shima, who has a comment, I lead a team of all men been there, welcome to construction. I have a very strong personality. I don't think it's strong. What we don't understand. Let me let me just read and not narrate. Okay, okay. Most male leaders don't know what to do with me, the things they call me out on us opportunities for improvement are the same traits they reward other male leaders for doing when I call them out on on it. They always agree with me in the end, but I'm tired of having to defend my strength. How do I balance my strength so that it is rewarded versus seen as a development opportunity? Oh, that's

Lisa
16:28
a great question. That's tichina. Tina,

16:32
Sheena,

16:33
Toshima? That's a great question. Because you're absolutely right. There's a stereotype that happens with just because we're women, men might think that we're supposed to act a certain way. And when it you know, we come off as being strong and confident, then that looks different. But the person, the man right next to us can have the same traits, same personality and then get rewarded and promoted. Right. So number one, I'm glad that you're bringing that to your leadership teams attention, whether is your manager, your male manager, I'm glad you need to point that out to them

17:15
that, hey,


17:16
I'm seeing a bias here. Right? The second thing, sometimes men don't know how to support strong women leaders. I asked one of my clients this same question, I asked her, Was she a purple unicorn? And she's like, what I was like, yeah, cuz your manager does not know what to do with you. He does not know how to support you. So you know, my first question, is he open to, you know, feedback, right? You might have to help him support you, because he don't know what to do. No, know what to do. And you don't know what you need.

Michele Heyward
17:58
Exactly, exactly.

Lisa
18:00
Right. So so you might be in that same position, right? Like your manager is not sure how to support you, a strong female leader who's managing a team of men. Right? So and that looks different. And some men could be intimidated by that. Some men will reward that like, great, you know, and some men just don't know what to do with it.

Michele Heyward
18:26
Now, I will put something out there. This is I can't remember people's Twitter, no Instagram, we always have these workshops about things women can do with these workshops, what men need to learn how to do, how to learn how to manage women, how do you need to learn how to manage women who are introverts? How do you need to learn how to manage women? Who are strong leaders? How were those workshops,

Lisa
18:51
you notice that you write you never see those kinds of workshops, but you do see workshops for women, you know, increasing, women getting better working on themselves, but you don't see. So again, and if the organization isn't providing that kind of training, right, to managers, male or female managers, that some of the managers are out there on their own. Right. And so, you know, how do you as a strong female leader, how do you have that conversation, a career conversation with your manager, and tell the person you know, hey,

19:33
look, here's

Lisa
19:34
how I need support, you know, and this is what it looks like. Because if you just say support, they might not know what that is like I am supporting you. You know, listening, I'm, you know, what, let me get specific, this is what I need from you. And let's have a dialogue about it. So you don't see that a lot and some men would totally like, appreciate Oh, thanks. You now you do have others that would be like, well, how dare you know? So it really depends on who you're dealing with. And whether you trust the pert, you know, trust that manager employee trust is there, because that's not always there as well.

Michele Heyward
20:16
And absolutely, is, is, and that was that's just a whole other discussion, I started to hope we're gonna need to do another webinar, we're gonna have to do a special where the talks that really need to happen about the change that really needs to go on in the workplace. That's really not the people, but it's the management styles. Yes, it's always my direct managers leadership loves me, hence why I keep progressing.

20:47
Hmm.

20:50
Wow.

20:52
That's a great, great feedback and great comments.

Michele Heyward
20:55
Yes, I love being over here. So. So if you want to get more of this, you can join. You can sign up for Risa session on Saturday. It is over here, right here at Bitly bi t.ly. forward slash mid level to executive you can check out her her bio, you can just buy a ticket for her session or other sessions for the conference. We are every set for more Saturday night every Saturday. Let me just get. We did we did want to Saturday, we have four more to go. Lisa is the only trainer we have this Saturday on October 31. Didn't know what you're gonna do for Halloween. So we didn't want to keep you too long on Halloween. So we made it just a single session. But definitely, definitely come check her out. These are the this is the difference between a one hour webinar and three and a half hours because you get to ask your very targeted and specific question for your needs. And we're able to, she's able to dig in deeper and really help you understand the tech tools and techniques you can use right now and even where to go further in your career. So it is worth an investment for you in the long term for your career. So definitely definitely check her out.

22:19
Lisa,

Michele Heyward
22:20
I can't wait. This is

22:22
super exciting. We're gonna have fun. We're gonna learn a lot. But you know, we don't we're gonna have fun while we're doing it. 

Michele Heyward
22:32
Yeah. And we'll make her give y'all some breaks. So y'all get a 30 minute lunch in there. So yes,

22:37
yeah,

Michele Heyward
22:38
just just plan for at least four hours to tune in two ish, maybe 230 ish, but we'll get you done. We'll get her done. All right, everybody. Have a great night and we will check with you later. Bye, everybody.

22:55
Bye bye.

Michele: Welcome, everybody back for another edition Today we have with us one of one of my favorite people because I love other people from South Carolina, of course. But we have Valerie Ashford Brown, who is a transition coach and a change management consultant. Thank you so much, Valerie, for joining me today. Thank you for having me, Michelle. So can you tell us how did you get into change management and what is change management?Valerie: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Thank you so much again for having me. today. I got into change management by, I guess, mistake, for lack of a better term right now. I was supporting a federal government client in financial management. And honestly, I grew Tired of Excel spreadsheets. Because of that, I moved to another project and learned about change management. So I was kind of thrown in there and was able to successfully help clients to make changes in the organization. The thing I did begin to learn is that change management, runs the whole gamut with federal government clients is one of the things that they need a lot of help with. And I was happy to serve in that capacity. So I went from finance my undergraduate degrees in finance. I thought I loved it. But then when I began doing the consulting piece of that, I wanted to do something different. And I saw a need there. My career manager said to me, Well, why don’t you try change management, and that’s what I did and I took off with that, I enjoy it. I enjoy helping the clients to navigate changes in individuals and also within their organization, so I kind of got in it by happenstance. But this happenstance is really happening for me now, I’m enjoying it. Michele: So the saying goes, change is very difficult. And I’m thinking US federal government and change management. They do not sound like they go well out there. Because just change is very, very difficult and government is very traditional. So, in your experience, what has what have been some of your successes in working with government with change management?Valerie: Yeah, that’s another good question. Change Management is the discipline that guides how we actually support and how we equip and prepare individuals to make changes. And when they are able to make changes successfully, then the organization is successful and the organization has successful out outcomes. So with that said, one of my successes has been in helping senior leaders hone in on the change that they want to make. For instance, in working with organizations I help division leads and directors realize that just because we change a name on an organizational chart, or just because we change seats, that does not constitute change management. There is a current state, there’s a transition state, and there’s a future state that we should go through a process and of course, in working with the clients, you go in a little little deeper than that, but holistically, that’s what we have. There’s a current state of transition state and a future state. And what I like to do and what I pride myself is on is helping my clients see that this is where we are right now. This is the change that we need to take take place. that transition state. And then I like to get them to see and have that vision of how they want their organization to look. So I challenged them on that. If it is looking where you’re not meeting your your, let’s say, your product levels, or whatever the case may be, if that’s the current state, what changes are you going to make for you to measure your success that you want to see at the end of the day at the end of the quarter, at the end of whatever it is that you set forth to do? So I pride myself on challenging leaders to see that to have a vision, have a mission, have a purpose, and not only change seats or change names on the org chart because honestly, of course, that is change. But that is not the change that they really want to see. So I pride myself on challenging them to really think deeply about that vision that they have for their organization.Michele: I love it. Yeah, definitely. Definitely it’s much deeper than than that. Now, we talked about change management what it is you do how you got into it. Mm hmm. But now your brain change management in with diversity and inclusion. Mm hmm. What does that look like?Valerie: Yeah, that that’s what I am working on now with with another client in in making sure that we have a diverse workforce because diversity, the thing about it with diversity, it brings different perspectives. And the inclusion part is a whole nother piece of that as well because people want to feel included and improves engagement. And just from research I’ve done it also the DNI piece also improves the bottom line and particularly for companies that are for profit. They want to have a great bottom line. Now I’m not saying that That should be the main goal. But that is a goal when you are for profit, you want to make a profit you want to make an income so forth and so on. So that whole harnessing change management to change DNI means that you put procedures in place to manage the change when you are having diverse people and having a diverse workforce come into your organization. For instance, I like to take clients through the Add car process. And that’s that’s from Pro site, pro site is organization that certifies people in in change management. So it’s awareness, desire, knowledge, ability and reinforcement. So we go through that process of looking at the awareness of change what needs to needs to be changed when it comes to diversity and inclusion like setting up your strategy, setting up a roadmap, and really having a detail roadmap a strategy as to how you want diversity. Add inclusion, to look, again, looking at that mission statement, looking at that vision statement, and making sure that you work with your HR or human development department as well to to be inclusive and to be diverse. But I truly believe that it is with the change management piece of it. It is developing that strategy, that roadmap because what do you think of when you when you have a roadmap, you have a place to go, let’s say with a map, if you’re trying to go to let’s say, drive cross country to California, most of the times when you get in the car to do that, you just don’t get in the car and just start driving. You have your phone, you may have your your manual map, but you have a roadmap to take you from point A to point B and I like to strive that with clients when it comes to DNI, to have a roadmap to have a strategy of how you’re going to to engage your work. force, how are you going to engage? You’re an organization? How is that all going to come into play? Do you understand?Michele: Yeah, that makes complete sense. And along that journey, what are your stops? Or what are your milestones and goals along to get to that destination? We’re about to hear. Right.Valerie:Right. That’s right. That’s right.Michele: I love it. So we’re in a mess of a lot of change right now. So this must be a truly exciting time for you.Valerie: Yeah, we are a bit a lot of change. Yes.Michele: Well, how are you using change management right now with clients in the midst of COVID 19, especially how it impacts or includes diversity and inclusion?Valerie: Yeah, one of the things that I’m working with clients on is to make sure that they’re reaching out to their employees and making sure that they have the power proper equipment, proper technology to do their work. A lot of times we assume that people have some place in their home, they have a computer, they have a laptop. And that’s, that’s not something that a lot of people have. So one of the things that we’ve been doing or I’ve been doing with the team is making sure and, and challenging senior leaders to make sure that their workforce has what they need to properly execute, because it seems like this is going to be a long process for us with COVID-19. So that’s one thing making sure that they have the proper technology to do their work to the best of their ability. Another thing is looking at performance reviews and looking at mentoring because for a lot of the clients that are going through the process of where they’re they will have the performance reviews, this is April so in the next few months, I would say like by September, October time frame And if we were, let’s say if this were last year where things were, quote unquote, normal, and I have it in air quotes, so they were normal, you’d be going through the process you will be, you will be meeting with manager, your manager, your your upper level, so forth and so on. So you’d be meeting with them, and probably doing that face to face. But now that has changed. So we have to change. The way we’re doing that to now is through zoom meetings is through WebEx wouldn’t say zoom so much, but through WebEx, and those meetings so what what I’ve been trying to do is have seniors to make sure that they provide their workforce with I would say, like calming, calming them down and letting them know that this is not going to impact the performance because we have to change the the path and their trajectory of how we’re doing things. And the third thing I was saying it’s a whole lot to it. But the third thing I would say that is really important is the whole month piece of this as well, because we are grieving. We are grieving, we’re grieving, potentially not because we’ve maybe lost a loved one, or let’s say, a friend has lost a loved one or something like that you do have that piece, you have that tangible piece of this whole process. But we also have the, the intangible, where we’re grieving, not being able to see our colleagues, not being able to see our friends not being able to see our family, then also not being able to go like to our gyms and to the malls and do all of the things that we normally do to go grab that coffee and things like that. And again, as it applies to DNI, to have those mentor relationships and those sponsorship relationships, so been trying to, to have them have senior leaders and managers to really get with their workforce and let them know that it is going to be okay and of course, and always welcoming at inclusion, that’s the whole inclusion piece of it, making them still feel included. Another thing too, is with with meetings that we have over over WebEx is to make sure that let’s say not not for someone to be on camera, because they’re not accustomed to that you you, you know people are different. We’re all different and someone may not want to be on camera for whatever reason, but also provide an alternative for that as well let them down in so there there are a number of things but those are just a few that that come to mine.Michele: Where do you see change management with DNI bridge with change management. Five years from now, repost. COVID What do you foresee that looking like?Valerie: Yeah, yeah, post COVID. I think that there will be a lot of Other things that changed now will remain the same, honestly believe that this probably is our new normal. What what has happened now is that organizations see that a lot of the work that we’re doing, they’re doing it does not have to be in an office. I believe that the technology will become more robust you your tech tech woman, and you’re probably seeing this too, that technology is going to be more robust. The virtual meetings that we have, they’re probably going to be more platforms to help us with this change. And to help us along the way with diversity and inclusion there gonna be a lot of rules and and i would say legalities and things like that, that will come based upon what is happening now in the next five years because it just reminds me of, of 911 when 911 happen. We did not go back to that same way. We didn’t things forever change for us with travel. And I believe the same thing is going to happen for us with COVID-19. And all that has changed with us being in the office with how we do diversity and inclusion, it’s going to be even more because there’s so many different things that are being birthed out of this time that we’re we’re home and social distancing. And, and quarantine.Michele: I agree. I think education is going to change as well. Yes. Because you’ve seen a huge disparity on schools and families that like you said, need computers, and they have 23,000 students and 7000 tablets, right. Laptops available. So there’s a huge disparity, even if you did it by family, they were still you know, a shortage.Valerie: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. That’s true.Michele: What what are common myths about change management that that you You’d like to tell us about Andy buck them?Valerie: Yeah, yeah, one of the things that I’ve seen is organizations, individuals teams seem to confuse change management with communication. Now, don’t get me wrong communication is an important piece of the pie. It’s an important piece of change management. But it is not the only piece and it plays a big piece of it. But communications is just they can be verbal, it can be written, it can be oral, but the change management process is really getting you to adopt the change that you are that you want to see. Communications on the other hand, is just communicating that change but the whole change management process is going through a process so I find that even in in finance, in finding jobs, and I look at job descriptions every now and now and then, and they will have communications, well, I’m sorry, they will have changed management specialists or whatever. But then they will list a lot of comms things. And they’re not the same. It’s a very important piece, but it’s not the same. So I find that that’s, that’s a myth that we need to, to debunk because change management, it includes sponsorship, it includes the resistance to change, it includes so much more than what communications is, but again, communications is part of it.Michele: What have what are what’s the common myth around DNI?Valerie: Yeah, the common myths that that I find around around DNI is and as it relates to change is that people are not necessarily I should say maybe teams and organizations are not necessarily taking that close close look at DNI as I think they should. And as far as, as far as engagement, engagement is a big piece of that improving engagement, and one of the myths there is that they don’t believe that engagement needs to be improved. Another piece of that is also the unconscious bias, part of that, that there are no biases. And unfortunately, I just read something from HBr Harvard Business Review that that said that millions of dollars are spent on these trainings, but the trainings don’t necessarily don’t necessarily help. So that was kind of disheartening. But those are those are two things like the engagement piece of that and then also the unconscious bias. Part of it and I haven’t figured out I haven’t thought long enough on it on how to to solve those issues, but those Some of the myths that we don’t have to be engaged we don’t have to include. Yeah. So and again, I need to think longer on that, or how do we really handle that, especially after getting that stat that millions of dollars, I think it was like $8 million is spent on those trainings. And they really don’t help. Yeah.Michele: When you’re thinking about DNI and change management, what do you think, is a unique skill that you have that helps you become successful in this in this space?Valerie: Yeah, yeah, one of the things that I think I bring to the table is the ability to really connect with clients really connect with clients and become that trusted advisor advisor. as a consultant. You need to be able to win over and influence people and I’m thinking about that book, How to Win and influence people I forgot who is by Dale Carnegie, maybe, but um, that book just comes to me Mine. So one of the things that I think I bring to the table is being able to be trusted. And then the way that you build that trust is by doing what you say you’re going to do when I’m given a deliverable. I typically go over and beyond that deliverable and get it done prior to the due date. Because I believe in what is it under, under I forgot what it was, what it actually is, but really, like, over over deliver, yeah, exactly.Valerie: Oh, that’s what I’m thank you in over delivering, and in that, making sure that the client gets what they they need prior to so another thing is that I believe in knowing knowing like my strengths, like for me, I’m an extrovert. So I, I like to know, like, how, how am I working with my client and before I start working with them I liked it, they actually they even do this. They said they set up a or have the admin to set up a 15 minute meeting. So we can meet. And what I find from that is not only how they work in the organization, but I may find out what they do outside of work. Because a lot of times what a person does outside of work, tells you a little bit about them and how they may work. In an organization like what what they did, they may have been former military I worked for a lot of people were former military. And for those who are former military, they’re pretty organized and you can go in their office, you can tell where they have everything kind of lined up that some of them so that tells you a lot too, but I like being that trusted adviser, and I bring that skill with me and being that trusted adviser also communications is another thing that I think is really important and I bring that too and then also being innovative. Like for instance thinking outside of the box, helping them to think outside of the box, because what I’ve learned about senior leaders and managers is that they have a lot on their plate. They have a lot on their plate. If you look at their calendar and you’re trying to schedule a meeting you you they have a lot of meetings on the calendar. But what I try to do is be innovative too. And when they’re thinking, like inside the box, so to speak, I like to expand their horizons and give them them. Yes, so you were asking about change management and how it relates to diversity and inclusion. One of the things that I want to add the last thing I want to add as far as DNA is concerned is that it’s important for us to know ourselves, to know what drives us to know the trends and then also know the leaders in diversity and inclusion. I think that’s really important for an options.Michele: I love it. So lettuce was in the future for you what what is Valerie working on next?Valerie: Well, what I want to continue doing is building the change management skill set and also building diversity and inclusion skill set. I’m working on a certification now from Cornell, that will be done in May. And I want to bring that to my clients as well really helped them to get to a point where they are solid in their DNI practices, and help them set up a mission, a vision of how they want to see DNI. We’ve looked at some other organizations like the Lloyd and then also add, I think it’s Hilton Hotels, and just looked at a number of them and how they set up strategies and I want to bring that same thing to my clients. So overall, looking for more clients to impart change management skills and also DNI and go from go from there.Michele: How can people connect with you.Valerie: Yeah, I am on LinkedIn is Valerie Ashford Brown. I also have email there I am at info at Valerie Astrid brown COMM And if you’re on Facebook, I do post on Facebook as the same name Valerie Astrid Brown is where I am and I’m active on those platforms.Michele:
Okay, great. It has been a pleasure, Valerie to have you on today. Everybody be sure if you’re looking at change management using change management with your DNI goals, be sure to reach out to Valerie. She will definitely be one of your go to people to get it done. Thanks so much, Valerie, who joining me.Valerie: All right. Thank you, Michelle.

Michele: Welcome, everybody. Thank you so much for joining me today we have Tanya Gibson. She’s a VP in diversity, equity inclusion, or nonprofit. And I’m so happy to have her because we too often think of huge corporations or profits when it comes to di. But we have a nonprofit VP, who is here to share number one, what I really want to know, how did you end up in a nonprofit?Tanya: So that’s such a great question chele, for me, nonprofit was actually not my first industry I’ve always worked for for profit. And so when I got the call from a recruiter, they masked the company that I work for today, they didn’t even tell me anything about the organization. So I know for some people that’s probably unique. They’re so used to doing a lot of research but for me I knew nothing about what to expect going into the nonprofit world. And so when I got the call, it was an SOS from the recruiter, they needed someone to start an HR department. And they didn’t know any experts in the field so that my organization decided to ask the experts and go out and find people who have been doing HR. And so when I finally got the job, I was a little nervous because I didn’t know what to expect. I was an HR department of one. And so there were always these questions as to well what is different about a nonprofit versus a for profit. And so that was my forte into the nonprofit world. It was really not me looking for it. It was the recruiter looking for someone who had expertise in HR, because there really isn’t a difference between for profit and nonprofit when it comes to the HR practices. People are people. And that was what was most important for my organization.Michele: I love it. I’m wondering why that the recruiter masted, but either way, I’m glad they did. So you could be in a nonprofit still doing the same break work. What advice would you give to someone who wants to enter into the DIY space as a professional?Tanya: I would say give yourself grace, you are not going to know all the answers, no matter any person in this field, who says they are the expert. Things change all the time. And so you have to be willing to understand that these are moving pieces. Our world is so complex. We use term a lot when we’re talking about RTI work of intersectionality. And that’s so important is to understand that there’s not one component of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion that’s more important than the other. They all have a part to play. And so that that would be my advice to anyone getting into Diversity, Equity and Inclusion work. Know that you have to give yourself grace, you’re not going to know everything and to also understand That it’s okay. If you don’t know everything you can say that. And that’s a part of the journey in dei is you don’t know it all. And so you want to bring others along on that journey with you.Michele: Excellent, excellent. Um, I absolutely agree with that. Okay, so you’re in the eye, you’re in HR, and you’re looking at people of color. And you, will you said intersectionality. And let’s back up just for a little bit for some people who may not know what intersectionality is. It talked about that briefly. And then we’ll we’ll dive in deeper into what you do for people of color as part of in the nonprofit space.Tanya: Yeah. And so that term is a coined term in this space. And so what intersectionality really means is looking at all the different elements that make up diversity, what most people would know this diversity, right. So that’s going to be you know, African Americans, Asians, women, the military are able bodied versus our, our disabled community, our tribal communities and indigenous communities. So intersectionality just means I’m, I am one piece or part of a whole, right? So my physical characteristics makeup a part of my intersectionality I am a cisgender, meaning a born woman, female. That’s my attributable sex, but I’m also African American and identify that way. There’s also other parts that make up my intersectionality of who I am. So I’m growing up in a first world country. And so there’s privilege that comes along with being in a first world country versus someone who may have grown up in what we consider a third world country or I live in a different socio economic class or status than someone else. And so internet intersectionality just means all the parts of a person that makes up all of the groups and demographics that We identify.Michele: Right? Thank you so much. I love your definition and an explanation. When it comes to nonprofits, we see them as a serving type entity or organization. But how do nonprofits or how should nonprofits build belonging in their organizations to not only the people who work there, but also the people they serve?Tanya: And we struggle with this every day. Because as you said, we’re a mission driven organization, which means we are to serve the community. So for us, what we look at in the term of belonging is that that phrase of my title, diversity, equity and inclusion, we look at the belonging as that next step in evolution of the equity work that we do so trying to make everyone equal. It’s not always it’s it’s easier said than done. And so we we add that next layer of equity work into the conversation. So how do we make sure that all of the work that we’re doing reaches everyone and is welcoming? And we make sure that we don’t say that we come into a community, we are already in the community, we are the community. And so how do we make sure that not only the staff that we want to recruit and come into our offices or agencies, feel that they are welcome. And so that’s that concept that we talked about earlier about intersectionality. Identifying, and recognizing and empowering all the parts of a person that makes them who they are. And that same concept can then be looked at when we are working in the communities that we’re in. And that’s so important for us because belonging really does mean you know, join someone that looks like me, that understands where I’ve come from in the background that that I am in my lived experiences. And even if maybe that person doesn’t, hasn’t grown up the same way that I have grown up or has the same lived experiences, so they understand who I am and what what about my world and my life. Life makes me who I am. And that’s so important when we’re talking about that concept of belonging. And so that’s why it was important for my organization to make sure that not only did we acknowledge diversity and inclusion, which a lot of organizations have someone in some form or fashion that has that title now, but we also want to make sure that the equity was not forgotten, because it’s great to say diversity, that’s wonderful that we want to be inclusive, but how is that actually impacted when it comes to your policies and your procedures for your staff, your workforce, and for the communities that we work in?Michele: Now as we look in the non profit sector, right now, I’m doing COVID-19 when it comes to serving people color, how has that been because we’re, we’re working like the nonprofit employees may be working remotely. So how do you serve as a provider? Services now, to those people color communities that are looking for you for your support.Tanya: Well, for us, I think it was definitely something that we were already doing. We weren’t we already are in those communities. And so it was just making a paradigm shift. Because we were so used to having the in person connectedness, that now our organization just wanted to make sure that we were reaching everyone where they were at. That’s very important for us so virtually as we’re doing today, so we had to do a paradigm shift for some agencies, especially in our rural communities, where we know that there are some disparities, even access to internet, and that connectedness can sometimes be a little bit more challenging. So it was finding ways to incorporate technology where, where it was accessible. And if technology wasn’t accessible, we do have other services that we provide as an organization. So the work never stops for us. And so if we could not come connect with them virtually, obviously, we’re probably To sing social distancing guidelines, but there were other ways that we were serving the community. So it would be we would go to the schools, we know our, what we call our littles, our mentees would go to and pick up food. If schools were passing that out, we would contact people by telephone, we had the ability to just to check in with them, and stay socially connected in that way. And also to talk with our legislators where we had the access and the ability to communicate with them to explain to them that in this time, we already knew as a nonprofit, that the communities that were in were already vulnerable communities and already had disparities. And so it was just emphasizing that and re engaging our legislators in all of the communities that we serve, that people of color, were already vulnerable. And COVID-19 has, in many cases, as I’m sure many people have already seen in the news in the media, it’s just exacerbated a lot of those disparities. And so for all of our workers, it was just trying to make sure that whatever x Service services that our kids and their families needed that we were there for them, if it was picking up the phone, bringing a board game to their home, helping them and providing them with any kinds of subsidies they may need to require to help keep the bills being paid. So we were just doing all of the things we already were doing, but just doing it more creative ways to make sure we’re keeping everyone safe.Michele: Yes, I love the ability to be able to meet virtually when when, of course you can and I’m in rural South Carolina so I absolutely understand, um, the lack of high speed internet or access to internet in it in it, if you will. There’s a lot of people that the whole, the entire US does not have high speed internet, and like most of the US doesn’t have it. So definitely having different modes to reach out to people from telephone to birds. It’s always good during especially during COVID-19. If not after, what? What are you seeing right now in how organizations specifically nonprofits are engaging people color in the nonprofit workforce?Tanya: Well, you know, I can only speak on behalf of my organization. I know what we’re doing. But you know, I think that any nonprofit that wants to remain relevant is trying to do so to make sure that they’re connecting with their funders or their donors or advocacy groups. And a lot of us are coming together. Many of us in the youth development, nonprofit space, have recently tried to come together to talk more about, you know, how is dei being impacted during these times? And so I would say that for us what was most important was building community within our community within our industry and finding ways to partner together although we will We’re already doing that. But it was even more important for us at this point in time, not to forget the fact that, you know, COVID-19 is a term that for all of our kids in the youth development space, they don’t know what that means for the communities that we serve, you know, they in many cases are still out, they may be service workers or, quote unquote, the essential workers of our communities. And so we want to make sure that we were building the right kinds of tools and resources to educate all of the communities that we serve, and to talk about what’s happening with those communities. And make sure that we’re getting the information directly from the source versus trying to, you know, look at what the media may be talking about, because we have that firsthand interaction. Many of these communities are relying on us, they rely on that interaction. And as a part of our model, we are a mentoring organization that has to have contact with people. And so we’re able to talk and find out you know, what are what are the challenges One of the obstacles so that we can make sure that we’re on the frontlines with them providing them with the services. They say they need Michele: have your mentors been able to engage with their mentees during our,  I don’t want to say shut down but work from home or stay at home?Tanya: Yes, that was one element that was a collaboration between our fund development department at my organization, as well as we have a program department and that’s the the department that works specifically with all of our agencies. And so they collaborated together and we do have a taskforce, but those two specific departments said that they wanted to make sure that we had activities, we have resources that we could then give to our agencies who would then provide those services to our mentors, which we call our bigs and provide them to the littles, which are mentees. And so we’ve done that through a number of ways, whether it be to have Google Hangouts or You know, use zoom, which is really popular amongst the for profit companies as well and organizations trying to use it to connect with staff. But we then provided them with other kinds of team building activities, things that in my field of HR, we try and do with their workforce. So whether it be board games, as I mentioned earlier, or you know, online virtual games, or FaceTime interactions where they could, you know, do makeup tutorials, or you know, want to play a checkers game with the board game, and then they move their pieces, or maybe start a book club or share recipes and cook something together. So we tried to find ways for there still to be that connectedness, even though they may not be in the same physical space.Michele: I love those solutions. So you’re seeing everybody say, Oh, we should make our kids put everything download. No, no, pick that up. You need to engage. Exactly. So so we’re finding the positive in you leveraging technology to stay Necdet because before we were saying, we were being disconnected via technology, in in bridging the two together is is really great to see, at least from this engineers perspective.Tanya: And that’s what my organization is all about. It’s about providing a caring individual and adult in the life of a child and doing that through typically, activities were there together. And so trying to be creative, to find solutions when technology was available to still feel like you’re connected, even if the physical distancing is there. So that’s why, you know, I don’t really like that term, physical distancing, or even social distancing. Because, you know, this allows you to be connected in any way possible. So it was really just finding a new way to share with one another share those experiences.Michele: I absolutely agree. I love it. I love it. Okay, what do you see? nonprofit, your nonprofit with littles and bigs five years from now, when it comes to creating places of the longing for people of color.Tanya: You know, I would hope five years from now that we’re We are the leader in that space of talking about why it’s so important to have a mentor in a child’s life and to allow those mentors to be from any community and not look at it so much from a DI perspective, but just look at it from a perspective of a caring adult being with a child and providing them with great lived experiences. I think even as adults, we can benefit from mentors, people who show us the way. And so I would hope that five years from now, we’re having a conversation more about why nonprofits are so important in our country and in our communities. Because I think a lot of those experiences are more informal in communities. And so we’re just formalizing a process that has been going on for hundreds of years, and so I would hope that Diversity and Inclusion is less of the conversation and that equity is the main conversation that we’re all looking at it as just we are all one. Because the work that we do today is looking at it from all of the boxes, right? All of the boxes we know of right? So we have an LGBTQ program. We have programs with our African American, historically, African American fraternities and sororities, we look at our tribal communities, and so we still box them in. Yeah, so I would hope that in in five years, we’re just looking at as, okay, let’s just go out and make sure that we’re looking at a community and how they need to be served. So less on the DNI and more on the equity side.Michele: Yes, I would love to see that growth in five years or less. So we’ll see what happens post obit 19 when it comes to
people of color in the nonprofit sector, What advice would you give to a listener when they may not have as much support as you do in your organization, or they are a few steps behind where you are in your in providing that support.Tanya: I would say a couple of things trust the process, because it’s still a process, even in my organization. Even though I represent diversity, equity inclusion, a lot of work has to be done on a daily basis to make sure that it stays top of mind because there are so many competing priorities we write funding is our great chief priority to stay in business. Child Protection is our number one priority and so that sometimes can compete with what we want to make sure we’re doing. And so I would say you know, to brand yourself as someone who understands a certain dimension of diversity, equity and Don’t try and focus on all of that, because that can be very overwhelming. And if you’re already in organization and you want to own this work, speak up and say something to you know, your key stakeholders, and more so than not, it’s definitely a moral obligation. But for many of your key stakeholders and organizations that maybe a few steps behind in di, you’re going to have to find a way to translate that to dollars, because that really for our key stakeholders, is where they understand the need for DNI programs in an organization and have the data to support it as well. So if you’re able to pull the data around, not only the ROI, the money piece, but also the data around how that’s affecting the work that’s going on in your organization. I think that will build a strong case of support for their formalized DNI programs.Michele: Absolutely agree I was telling someone on a separate panel, employers who embrace dei do it during COVID-19 will outpace those who don’t, meaning those who don’t see it as a cost center, those who do see it as a value center. And in sometimes you have to have metrics, they have to see what that value is in metrics. And that’s fine, but too often is looked at as a cost center and you want to cut costs. SoTanya: and that goes back to what you said earlier about how to build belonging. If you don’t have people, all kinds of people we live in, it’s not a homogenous society, everyone has different perspectives. And the same can be said for gi work. You want to have different kinds of people with different perspectives and opinions. And that’s not just one kind of person you need a whole subset and that’s what D is trying to do. Always is to mix it up a little bit.Michele: I love it will tell you Thank you so much for joining us today. How can people connect with you?Tanya: So if anyone wants to connect with me, they can connect with me through my LinkedIn page. It’s at Tanya Gibson PHR and that’s Tanya with an A. And so for me, I want to make sure that everyone knows my pronouns are she, her and hers. And that’s another really great tip I didn’t tell you about Michelle is if you’re getting into this tea, I work to learn more about the different pronouns because that is a part of intersectionality specifically for LGBTQ plus community that identifies that way. So that always signifies to all of our GDI experts or subject matter experts that you understand the different elements of di.Michele: Thank you so much for joining me. So all of you in the non profits, profit sector, or even if you’re in the for profit sector, there are some great information here on how to create a culture of belonging for your people of color. I will be back with another segment so stay tuned as we all work together to get us through covid 19.

Michele:Welcome, everybody to another session and today with us. We have Jessica and Jess from the rise journey and you’re like Michelle, like Look, they’re j&j. They are a powerhouse. And you’re going to love them the way I do. So ladies, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks. Hi. So my first question for you is why the title, the name, the rise journey.

Jessica:So that’s a very interesting story. Um, we love the word rise, and everything that it kind of brings to mind around rising above, you know, bringing new horizons to the workplace. And one thing that we really wanted to incorporate into our name, and just kind of the foundation of our organization, is the constant reminder that it’s a journey, that you’re never finished growing, you’re never finished learning, there’s always something to be improved, and there’s always a way to work better. So it’s kind of a reminder that it is a journey and not a destination. And the rise path just really didn’t fit.

Michele:I would agree, journey sounds a whole lot better, a whole lot better. So let’s talk about one of your let’s talk about why did you get into HR? I really like that, and maybe it kind of fits into the rise journey. Um, what is your journey into HR?

JessicaYeah, so I started, like I mentioned in my intro as a 24 year old in a tech startup, and was the UAE executive assistant to the C fo of a company who said, Can you do anything? And I said, Yeah, I can. And he said, Okay, here’s our HR platform, figure it out. And our, quote, unquote, Director of HR, who was another old white man said, Oh, well, you can do all the hiring, and you can do all the onboarding, and you can do all the training and all that figure it out. And I did. And next thing I know, I’d grown the company from 20 people to 120 people, and an additional 200 people in India, and 40 people, I believe in Australia. And then I got asked to sit at the receptionist desk, because we just needed somebody and I was the best fit. And I said, Well, I think I can take my talents elsewhere. And I quickly moved on to another tech startup. And you know, as most people do a tech startups you add in flow, and we even bob and weave and change and have now had nine plus years of experience and learning and development and HR and recruitment. And ultimately seeing a lot of the poor choices a lot of startup founders make. And that there are trends when it comes to diversity and inclusion or the lack thereof as part of the planning process really early on.

And it’s just unacceptable. You know, it’s 2020. And with everything going on, and they get just even makes it more clear that we need to be doing better and more.

Michele:Okay, I love it. Like, I know what I’m doing. And this is not it. Yes, definitely time to go.
So what would you say has been your biggest accomplishment in your career thus far?Yes, you want to take this one?

Jes:Yeah. Um, I would say, um, and I’m answering on on behalf of both of us for the rise journey, I would say our biggest accomplishment is creating something tangible, um, you know, when we first set out to to work in the diversity inclusion, you know, building community building better workplaces, space.
You know, like I said, in my intro, you know, it was it was very hard to figure out how that what that meant for a smaller or a growing scaling organization. So we kind of took all of the knowledge that we had acquired from our experience, from, you know, classes and training, and we boiled it down to an actual program things people can do steps, actual steps you can take, you know, if you are a single founder, or if you are, you know, two co founders or a team of five you can work together and take specific steps to make these things happen early on.

And that was a real challenge. A lot of di as I’m sure everyone is aware, is very academic, there’s a lot of research, there’s a lot of numbers, there’s a lot of pie in the sky and things that you know, would be wonderful if, um, and making that happen at a small scale making that happen with a small group.Um, it’s Very challenging. And I would say our biggest accomplishment has been really figuring out how to help these these organizations, and getting them on the right path. Sorry.
Jessica:Yeah, and a huge part of that is, you know, just as background is, is isn’t HR, its operations, its business development, it’s, you know, organizational culture. And so coming from my background mixing with that, and Jesse and I disagree all the time, we have come from opposite ends of the spectrum on 90% of things when it comes to a tactical when it comes to approaching a strategy. When it comes to our values, we are 100% aligned when it comes to action oriented, what we believe that we need to move forward, we align. And no matter where we are on that spectrum, when we start, we always come to the middle. And I think anytime you talk to any founders, like it’s hard, this is a relationship, you know, it’s different than my partnership with my boyfriend, this is different than my family relationships. But this takes just as much work. And you know, there’s ebbs and flows and ups and downs. But ultimately, just an I want to create an organization that we want to see in other organizations, we want to be diverse, we want to be inclusive, we want to promote the right kind of work organizational workplace. And that’s really hard. And so kind of wrapping all of that up together, you know, is, is kind of incredible.And you think about it, and when you think about any relationship, you know, coming from opposite ends of the spectrum and going together, coming together and then saying any hard feelings are left and we move forward because that’s what it takes.
Michele: And and I love that you have both different experiences from organizations, because those different perspectives bring about what’s the best solution. And it’s not just one way because I come from an engineering background, and then construction, then a woman of color, so many different intersectionalities plus experiences. So it definitely does make your organization stronger, because you both have different experiences just in the workplace. And it helps us cover a number of bases. There’ll be times where I’m like, I have no idea what’s going on. And guess is like, Oh, I do like I know exactly what’s happening. And I’m going to do a, b and c. And I’m like, take that away. Hey, Jess, I’ll talk to you tomorrow, like, so that really is a huge help. Because there’s so many things like I’m really good at what I do. But there are a lot of things I don’t know, and just as incredibly good at what she does. And I know there’s a lot of things she doesn’t know. And in belted worth. And so really having those different backgrounds and experiences, from both professional and personal life has really driven us forward together in a way that I think if we had both come from the same background, we just we wouldn’t have made this much progress. I agree. I absolutely agree. Now, we’ve both talked about culture, and the work that is truly required. You know, even in small organizations, we’re sitting in the midst of COVID-19.

Organizations, let’s start with the easy part.

Organizations that have book culture where their employees feel they belong, how do they maintain that communication, over communication, repetitive communication, documenting the communication, and ensuring that the communication is heard, listening when it’s not heard, and just actually just wrote a piece on communication and psychological safety in the workplace? And, you know, going to like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, like, what are the basic things that a human needs? And then what are the basic things that an employee needs, and just work your way up and back down and up and down? because things change, things evolve. There is no perfect workplace because things change too quickly. And, you know, I also work a nine to five, and I’m really fortunate in my organization, that the our leaders work really hard for that belonging piece, but it’s not easy, and even the best of leaders need to continually work on it.
Destiny, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think continuing, you know, to continue to develop a strong culture when, you know, in the midst of, I like to refer to this as just kind of a forced experiment for a lot of people trying something new.

I think there’s a lot we’re gonna learn from it, and there’s a lot of mistakes we’re gonna make. So on the same note of communicating, I think it’s so important for managers to be communicating with their teams, for colleagues to be communicating with one another.

And for managers to be communicating with individuals, I mean, looking at every single possible cross section, so your senior leadership, posting a town hall or having a you know, an AMA, like, whatever that looks like for your organization that kind of fits with what you were doing, you know, free time of prices, will really help you know, with the consistency.

As Jeff said, over communicate you. You can’t, you can’t go wrong with community.

Hitting right now, it might be like, well, I just talked to them about this yesterday, just just do it, just talk to them just reach out. Um, I would also say that I think, um, I think the consistency is, is helpful across platforms. So you know, if you have a town hall meeting, if you send out a, you know, some kind of company wide memo or email, following up in whatever, you know, chat platform you use, or whatever your weekly call is, or your maybe a daily kind of stand up call, I think reiterating, and making sure that people feel heard. And also, lastly, if you mess up, if you’re still learning in this experimental time, just own up immediately and ask for feedback on how you can do better next time.

And then if you ask if and when you ask for feedback, which should be frequently, Jess and I are both a big advocate on doing engagement surveys, in addition to post surveys, because those are two different things listed. Make sure you’re seeing that information, make sure you’re reading it, you’re ingesting it, you’re brainstorming it, and then doing taking action and then communicating on that action. And that last piece is often what gets missed. And people are like, Well, nobody listened to me or didn’t do anything. And it’s like, well, we did, but we didn’t communicate what we did and why we did it, and why your feedback is so much more important than next time, because we’re going to continue this cycle. I think something that Jess alluded to, and hers is also structure is make sure you create a structure and adhere to it, that consistency is big.

Yeah, and every culture has a different sense of what belonging means. And so ask them, what does it mean to belong here? and say, Okay, let’s, you know, do unique Korea of belonging, mission statement or a vision statement? Do you need to add some sense of belonging into your values, you know, figuring out where you can incorporate it in and why it’s important and how it manifests is key.
definitely have to agree.

Now, let’s talk about some organizations who were not as inclusive, they were, let’s just say they’re not, we won’t say they are in the midst of changing, let’s just say they’re not, what are some things they need to maybe one or two things they need to be really getting good at? Right now in the midst of COVID-19.

That’s tough without knowing an individual organization. I think, again, going back to everybody’s different, and everything is different.
The foundation of everything Jeff and I do comes down to purpose, mission and values. And I would say if you’re going to tackle any problem, you go straight to the source. And so one is getting that feedback, finding out what’s going on to the employees. And Jessica, I’ve been hired on a couple of occasions where the employer says they don’t the employees don’t trust us as leaders, but we’re hoping that they’ll trust an independent party. And it usually happens, you know, when we work on those kinds of things. Because we do instill a different communication style and consistency and structure.

But I think going back to that purpose, and mission and values and redefining it, if needed, reiterating it, and then building out as needed. And then again, communication, consistency, framework structure, rinse, repeat, you know, try again, iterate, move forward.

Just Any thoughts? I know.

Um, I would say for someone who may, you know, for an organization that maybe isn’t, you know, really, on top of things in this area, um, you know, maybe a baby step would be just, you know, that, that that really the close conversation so the one on one, the just picking up the phone and calling making sure that everyone is set up where they are remotely, or if they’re working some kind of, you know, I know a lot of people are still working on site, you know, checking in with everyone on an individual level to make sure that they feel safe physically, that they that their needs are being met, you know, that they’re, you know, making rent and there might not be anything that as a, you know, business owner that you can do to address some of those concerns.

Um, but that is a way to make people feel like they belong, make them feel heard. And again, even if you can address the issues, at least, that you’re listening as a big first step.

Yeah, ask for help. Say, I don’t know what’s going on I need help. And that’s like, it’s, you know, same thing with anything with it, whether it’s a a or, you know, fostering too many animals or whatever it is like saying, I need help. I need a partner in this Who can I partner with who can be my accountability buddy and help me move forward and take the baby steps? Because that’s what it takes. It’s, you know, what’s the thing you don’t you don’t look at the staircase, look at each step or something like that, or don’t think about the stick the full staircase, something along, I’m not good with that kind of stuff. One step at a time. Don’t worry about how many steps it is just focus on the next step right in front of you.

Now with COVID-19 many of us are fortunate to work remotely, What are some myths around working remotely?

Yeah, we hear that all the time. flexible work is a huge factor in creating a diverse and inclusive workplace. And so that’s one of our number one things that we love to help companies work on is developing those remote capabilities. And we hear time and time again, people aren’t going to work, you know, they won’t be productive, if they work from home, they won’t be as innovative, we won’t have our same team Connect, you know, how do we work on our culture, all of these, you know, it’s hard to set up, I mean, you know, just even some really basic infrastructure things, you know, that people worry about.

And when you show up to an office every day, it’s very easy to get hung up on these myths, to just dig in and put off for another day, you know, making, doing what you need to do talking about the stairs, you know, taking those those baby steps toward making that a reality. And back to this forced experiment, I think that leaders, managers, and you know, employees are going to realize that it was actually not that hard to set up. And actually, they get a lot done. And wow, they have a lot of flexibility to take care of children and family members, and all the things that life throws at you every day, especially during a crisis. And I think that people will realize, Oh, this is actually a great plan, it was actually really easy to implement.

And I think we’re also going to see a lot of the diverse, more diverse candidates coming through the pipeline. If you’re not dependent, you know, I mean, if you really want to go fully distributed, if you’re not dependent on geographical location, you can really bring in diverse talent, you can work more with women coming back from maternity leave, parents handling numerous children or caregivers, you you create, you reduce the accessibility issues for people that might not have the same mobility. It’s a really incredible time that we’re living in. And I think that we can take a lot of learnings away from this experiment.

I also think there’s something from both, you just had a ton of great points on the hiring and talent front. When you think about, I live in New York, traditionally, and COVID. I’m in New Hampshire right now. And my rent is astronomical, I have to pay all sorts of things, I have to deal with high grocery bills, I have to deal with this, you know, the subway is great, usually, but I don’t really want a car. But you think of transportation, you think of housing, you think of all of these obstacles that that, you know, we have 150 people in my office in my nine to five office and you know, the cost of rent, how many hundreds of thousand dollars a year for your organization paying in rent, what are you paying to that co working space? You know, thinking instead of, Okay, well, if I can cover my employees internet bill, and I can buy them the same exact computer, or I can you know, if I’m going to spend $250, on their desk at work, I might as well do that in their home office, you know, how can you truly enable people in their space. And culture does not have to do with physical proximity. You can build pieces of culture around it. But it doesn’t start with physical proximity. And I think organizations are really quick to forget that.

And a big reason companies don’t hire remote is because they don’t hire Well, to begin with. It has nothing to do with hiring remote remotely. Well, it’s hiring well, and doing the proper channels and doing your interview prep and doing your scorecards and, you know, thinking about bias and doing bias training and all these things that make remote work, not work. It has nothing to do with remote work at all. Yes, yeah. Hiring, it can be difficult for a lot of organizations, like if they don’t have a process that works other than to 70% of employees who ever URLs.
Okay, so I have another question for you.

How has covid 19 impacted employers not just remote work, but in other aspects?

There is a lot of fear.

And fear manifests differently for different people. And it’s scary, what’s going on is personally scary. It’s scary for your family. It’s scary, not knowing, you know, what’s going on in the future is ambiguous. And, and I think for employers, there have been a lot of immediate reactions, which resulted in a lot of furloughs and a lot of layoffs. I also think there were a lot of deliberate reactions that resulted in a lot of furloughs and layoffs. And companies, some companies did that better than others. But I think it comes back to when your leaders don’t feel safe, psychologically or otherwise. When the people who are traditionally in control aren’t or don’t or can’t, and it can mean it’s a little it’s a it’s a lot easier.

Frankly, you know, I don’t you know, yet lie about that and
baby steps seem bigger, all of a sudden,
people are much tighter on spending all of a sudden, you know, I always say that HR is the first thing to happen. But the first thing to go when it comes to spending and anything around org culture, and it’s really easy to slash and dash, and but you need to be deliberate. And I think a lot of employers right now are struggling to find a footing to be deliberate.

That’s just, yeah, no, I would, I would just elaborate a bit more and to say that, you know, just the general disruption is really challenging. And you’re, you know, as a leader, you’re also dealing with the crisis personally. So you might have financial health impacts, in addition to the company having, you know, financial impacts to your team having impact, you know, it’s just a multi layered, so not only are you you know, it’s hard for a lot of people to manage a team period under the best of circumstances. So then you add this, and kind of to Justin’s point, with the baby steps just seem harder right now. Everything is harder. And, you know, we talked about some of the myths around remote work well, frankly, this isn’t your typical remote work situation, there’s people that shouldn’t be, you know, under certain circumstances, working remotely, and they are forced to, there’s people that don’t have the same focus and ability to focus right now, given Livingston situations, health situations, financial situations, nothing about this as normal. And I think there’s got to be,
you know, as employers are worried and disrupted, you know, they’re also wondering, you know, I need more from everyone at a time when it’s hard to even do the bare minimum right now. So having that flexibility and understanding where everyone is coming from where the managers, you know, supporting them to support employees,
and back to, you know, full circle back to communication, you know, making sure that
everyone’s on the same page, as best as they can be, is really going to help kind of lead out of this crisis.
Absolutely. Communication and flexibility.
Where do you see DDI five years after COVID, 90.

Um, I think that a lot of the conversation happening now around the cases and fatality rates, I think are drawing much overdue and long ignored a spotlight on inequality in this country, and I think that that’s going to help propel all of these conversations forward.

Kind of talking about, you know, myths around remote work, I think we’re gonna realize that distributed teams are really productive, and very manageable and cost effective. And I think that we might see, kind of, you know, the floodgates opening when it comes to hiring people, you know, living in areas that wouldn’t predominantly have access to a Google headquarters or a, you know, large company might realize all of a sudden, they’re able to apply and get get some amazing opportunities. I think we’re going to see the tide kind of turning on that mean, we’ve seen remote work becoming more popular, you know, every year, you know, year over year, I think this is just going to accelerate that.

1,000% for everything I just said, and especially, I’m glad you brought up the inequalities. COVID is forcing us to tackle a lot of issues across the board, around diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. It’s forcing us to rethink healthcare, it’s forcing us to rethink mental health care. I read a statistic the other day, that meant the mental health health care, crop crisis, lot phone line, the calls were up like 940% from the previous month. And, and it gets for forcing us as individuals as well as leaders to recognize my coworker has two kids at home. And now they’re expected to be a parent, and a caretaker, and feeder, and teacher, and all of these things. And I think it’s forcing some empathy that we don’t want to look at, there’s been a lot of things that aren’t pretty, knowing that you have biases or having to look inside and recognizing you have biases or, you know, oh, well they’re too busy to do this. And really, they’re just being a parent or caretaker or whatever it is. So it’s forcing us to really have a deep long look in the mirror. And literally because you can’t leave the house unless you’re covering all the mirrors, you know.

And so you hope those continue and I do think that they will I also think that COVID is is allowing
microcosms, and micro or micro cultures to evolve, whether it’s your neighborhood in Brooklyn, like I see mine on Facebook every day, or towns to really develop and leaders to pop up with leaders traditionally haven’t been. And I really hope that we can encourage micro leaders to macro leaders to keep doing so I hope we can keep the voices raised strong.

You know, I think, you know, where I work, for a nine to five, we have a number of employee resource groups, er, G’s, and they are fiercer than ever and more supportive than ever and are sharing resources in a bigger better way than I’ve ever seen them. And they are thriving, and the people in them are ensuring that the people are succeeding. And it is, you know, incredible believe an outlet or watch this to see this grow. And I, I can’t imagine, you know, it might get a little bit calmer, but I can’t imagine that strength lessening once you’ve gone through something like this. So I hope that that continues, I hope we can, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats, I think I got that one almost right. And I think that in some ways COVID is going to progress us this forest experiment is going to progress us in a lot of ways. And I just we need to be sure that we stay on it, to do it right? To continue looking inward, even when it’s tough. And so as long as we can retain some of these skills that we’re learning during this difficult time about ourselves and our peers.

I hope that di isn’t a conversation in five years, that’s my dream is that we’re just like, This shit is just normal. I work next to somebody who’s different than me and they talk different and they think different and they speak a different language and they have different educational background and different socio economic background. And that we can just, you know, clash and come out more united at the end. I hope DNI isn’t an issue then I mean, then maybe out of a job but you know,
we’ll come by we’ll come to that when the time comes exactly work ourselves out of the DI so how can people connect with you?

Jess, I’ll let you tackle that one.

Sure. Um, so you can connect with us through our website. The rise journey comm you can find us
at Jessica at the rise journey.com and just je s at the rise journey.com You can find us on social at the rise journey.

And LinkedIn, we’re all over the place you can find us basically anywhere.
Lady we have to have the most distinctive last names around so it’s it’s hard not to find us frankly.

You like my first name, maybe popular but my last name is not. I love it. I love it. Ladies, thank you so much for joining me. This has been a great time. I always love talking to the two of you. doing great work with smaller organizations for the Ei keep keep up the great work, more to come definitely with COVID-19 during and post everybody. We will see you next time.
Thank you

Michele: Hello, everybody, thank you so much for joining me for another edition of I don’t know this special special time you’re having here with a pandemic pandemic rather called COVID-19. With us today we have Melissa Dobbins, who is the founder of a great tech startup call career dot place where they’re combating bias in hiring. Thank you so much for joining me, Melissa.Melissa:Thank you for having me.Michele: It’s great to be here. Virtually, of course, exactly. It’s a pain clinic, I would shake your hand but we have to be socially distance.Melissa:
To be honest, I hate that term socially, distance, distance, we do not want to socially separate each other.Michele: And you know what? I’ve had that discussion as well. We’re socializing more online and we are still shows showing how tech is not tearing us apart. It’s actually bringing us together as a society. So I’m liking the different spins like Like you said, it’s not social lead isn’t it is physical. So tell us why did you start career that place?Melissa: Well, it’s personal. Just like with a lot of entrepreneurs when they get started, it’s a problem that affects them personally.
And I’m no exception. For me, it was my own journey as I climb the corporate ladder in the world of high tech, as I ran product management, product strategy, organization. missions, you know, to be successful means to get to an exit to get past that to get past the build stage, and someone sees how great the products are, how great the company is, and they acquire it. But downside of an acquisition is you go from growth mode into sustained mode, and I love growth. So I would go back into the job market and look for my next venture. And every step of the way, it got harder and harder. Because the types of questions that I was being asked as a director than as a VP, were things like, can you fire people because it’s emotionally difficult? And can you handle working with a bunch of men and other questions like that. And it became very, very clear that they were so distracted by what they saw when I walked into a room by the assumptions that they made because of what it looked like and what I meant that they forgot to ask me about what I do and how I could add value to their organizations.
And I kid you not, it got so bad.I started walking out of more interviews that I completed, where I stopped them in the middle and I say, look, what you’re asking me is illegal. It’s inappropriate. It’s not relevant. Here are the questions you need to ask me in order to know if I know how to run a roadmap. I know how to do future strategy for an organization if I know how to help a company get to exit. Give me a call when you’re ready to ask me those questions. Leave. And you know, it started that frustration of why is this the way it is? Why can’t people take the time and think about what they need, why they so distracted by what they see. And it got to this point where I had this eureka moment, either I had to put up with this problem, or I had to become part of the solution. So I decided to do the latter. And I started this company crewed up place, which is a tech company in order to help organizations and individuals focus first on what matters and not get distracted by what doesn’t not get distracted by what they see. And we saw the property through things like anonymity.Michele: I love it. I absolutely agree the struggle is definitely there. For those who don’t fit the picture of what a company’s culture looks like, or they are they want it to be when you were when you were out in corporate. Not even Corporate but startup space right? Sometimes corporations do have intrapreneurship. But what was your biggest accomplishment in your career in tech thus far? And definitely Career Career place being part of that?Melissa: Yeah, I mean, there’s there are several things that that I looked back at as either fantastic learning experiences or accomplishments, everything from watching the careers of the product managers that that worked for me and what they’ve been able to accomplish. Since we’ve worked together, which is fantastic. The more you’re able to teach and show others to go down the path, the more you’re able to hold them up and give them opportunity. It’s just so satisfying. And then of course, with crewed up place, culminating with all these experiences, pulling into my organization, just seeing the differences that we’re making within our customers within our organizations. I mean, we’re seeing hiring managers coming to us Are are heads of HR talent acquisition, where they’ve made their very first hire in and then select the demographic here from the first offer to someone with autism. And this excitement because they never had a process that would allow for someone on the Autism scale to make it through. And now they had an offer out for the very first time to bringing in the first woman of color into the executive team. And all of this was because they stopped making the assumptions and they first defined what it is they needed. And then followed that path. And between that and the anonymity people were making it through that they have never even been given a second look to and just seeing these stories over and over again is just such a fantastic feeling that it’s working solution is working and we’re making a difference one hire at a time. I love it. You love that, you know is that is that?Michele: It can work it can happen and when it is it’s like okay This is a win for not only you, but for so many people in that process. And that’s the best part about, you know, startupMelissa: well, and with diversity and inclusion, it really is a win win. There isn’t a single winner because teams big teams that are more diverse that have a diversity of thought, which is usually seen as diversity in demographics, but when they they’re able to see through problems with different angles and have different wisdoms and experiences brought to all the problems, they solve them better, they’re more motivated, they’re more productive, they’re more creative. Meanwhile, we’re opening the doors for so many individuals that have not been evaluated and considered fairly, for no other reason than the assumptions that were made rather than the individual behind those resumes behind those assumptions. So it’s a win win all around and why wouldn’t it feel fantastic to be in a, in
a business that allows for thatMichele: I absolutely agree, I guess that we have a lot in common as we are. So now you’re looking at COVID-19 and continuing the hiring process through COVID-19. Are you seeing any companies that are reverting back? Or are they like, you know what, we want to still make sure this is a priority for our organization?Melissa:Well, it’s a little hard to tell right now, being in the midst of the pandemic in a crisis mode, what we’re seeing the most stuff is just a freeze of all decisions, a freeze of all hiring or freezable strategy. Everyone’s gone into survival mode. And we’re seeing a lot more people in HR, unfortunately, that are thinking about furloughs and layoffs and they are about hiring. That’s not universal. There are definitely organizations out there hiring and they’re just going as fast as they can and the bar became very, very low because we have to keep these these images These professions going for things come to a standstill. So where I think we’re very much interested in paying attention to and watching is what happens when we come out of the crisis mode. When we have those 17 plus million people and counting who filed for unemployment coming back into the workplace and organizations turning back on, are we going to see that inversion that sometimes happens when we’re in an employer’s market? Where there’s a lot of competition for every job, in which case we do see a lot of resurgence of bad behaviors? Or are we going to see the strikes that diversity and inclusion has made through the past few years in this this time where it’s the employees market and trying to pull in that talent? Are we going to see those persist? And it’s an open question. I’m really, really hoping we see a lot of those good practices and behaviors persistent.Michele:I actually agree with you and unfortunately, like you said, a lot of employers have started, started to lay off Freeze hiring to decide where they’re going to go. As you’re looking through how employers do hiring through through career plays, are you also looking at how they are training their employees as well?Melissa:Not in the major focus area of what we do. And one of the things that we decided early on was to focus very heavily on the inclusive nature of the hiring process. So from the job description to the hire selection, that doesn’t mean that training and culture and the entire experience from onboarding on is not crucially important to diversity and inclusion, but it’s not our particular focus area. That being said, we do have a lot of recommendations and thought around, know how you do want to train how you want to, for example, you want to hire for potential as much as possible and bring For those gaps, rather than hiring to fill all of those, there are specific skills because what you might be getting First of all, if you’re not looking for the purple unicorn or the purple squirrel unicorn or whatever you like to call those very elusive individuals that check every box and pay dearly for them. But But when you’re doing that what you pretend to happen is you’re not prioritizing that potential, that growth, that team dynamic, that new way of thinking that you can bring in augment the team. You’re just looking for something that slips into one specific slot, and there’s a lot you could miss when you’re doing that. So training, culture, all of that is absolutely key. It is not our primary focus,Michele: okay.When it comes to removing bias out of hire, what’s a common myth that you hearMelissa: the most common one we hear at least the one that that drives me the most craziest?Well, there just aren’t any people in the demographic here who want this job. There just aren’t any Women Engineers, it’s not that they don’t want to hire them. They’re just not there. There just aren’t any female executives, there just aren’t any women of color who want to be VPS. All of those are just not true. So what we see is this excuse this, whether it’s the culture excuse, whether it’s the accessibility excuse, it’s not my fault. We’re not diverse. It’s just there aren’t enough people out there, or no one like that wants to work in my culture, or whatever those are. So that’s probably the most common is excuses. It’s almost giving people permission to have the profile of employees that they do, rather than looking closely and asking, why do I have a profile of employees that I do?Michele:
Yeah, and evaluating your process, like what?Melissa: Exactly.Michele:And I guess maybe that’s just the engineer’s approach or, you know, the analytical minds like, Okay, this isn’t working out. Let’s try something different. Right. And I distinctly remember Doing customer discovery and going to a career fair. And at this one career fair talking to five companies, who all said, Well, if I could find a woman, civil engineer, that’d be great. I said, you’re talking to one. And they were all shocked. I was like, Well, where do you go? And I literally just asked me, where do you go to recruit? And they’re looking at me like they’re doing something wrong. And I just start calling out all of these engineering organizations that they are like, I had no clue about those. So it’s like, what is your process that right and and when you look at, especially when you look at ranking peoples, so entry level is
the numbers get very thin in a lot of demographics. The reason is not because we are born with fewer directors or VPS. And let’s say women versus men. It’s a cultivated problem that we’ve been cultivating. So then it’s the question of what what are your promotion practices? How are you evaluate Adding people for those promotions that have been feeding that next level up across all of the industries and organizations. So just to your point, it’s where you’re looking to source. It’s how you’re cultivating the talent once you’re there. It’s what you’re valuing and how you’re communicating what you’re valuing. All plays into who you’re attracting, keeping and progressive.Michele: I love that.Those three steps who you’re attracting number one, and I think they they that gets lost in translation. And I always ask, like, well, we don’t know if we’re doing a good job. And it’s like, well, are your people of color referring their friends and family like, well, they’re the engineer, I’m pretty sure that only when they know. And I always laugh of like, not go through my phone. I’m pretty sure. African American women engineers across across different industry so Melissa:well, and then think about even the language. So a recent conversation that I had was all about references, we’re actually talking about COVID reference Is, and my my intern having a conversation who’s who’s younger, was struggling with some of the references he was coming across because he had never lived through them. And so these very important important messages were completely lost on him. He wasn’t responding to 911. He was not in the workforce during the 2008 crash. And so to have these points of references didn’t work for him. So imagine when you’re having a reference loaded job description, for example, and the references don’t resonate, not only do some of the meaning get lost, but you actually feel alienated. And it’s amazing how many times we use these references based on our own cultural preferences. As you might notice, mine from my background, but my cultural preferences, but that ends up alienating people. And so you know, if you have problems with certain demographics, it could be one of the first places to look is simply how are you communicating your culture, your jobs, what you’re stressing and that could end up being a And leading to more people than you realize.Michele: Those are definitely key tips for any employer out there looking and working to create a more diverse and inclusive workplace. So definitely, definitely love. Love that response. What has been one thing you learned that you that was just very surprising for you?Melissa: I probably shouldn’t admit it. But it was a very big lesson to learn our lesson. We learned it fairly early, but it was shocking. So when we came into this, my co founder and I are both longtime business to business technology people. So my business partner did the engineering, the engineering team, I run product design teams. We work together in the past, and I’ve done b2b technology in a lot of different facets for businesses. So when we came in into this facet in the hiring process, we have made the assumption that the biases the distractions were before process problem. So it’s not that you didn’t know what you were looking for. It’s that you’re getting distracted as you were evaluating it and going and making left turns you should have made. What we found fairly quickly was the prominent way of evaluating talent across a lot of different industries. A lot of different sizes was I know, but when I see so wasn’t a really well thought out defined list of here the questions here’s what I’m looking for here my requirements and wider requirements. It was a I know what when I see it, and if history of humanity teaches us one thing, no, we really don’t.
So we have to take a very big step back and start talking about how no you don’t but
that’s okay. We’re not supposed to know it. When we see it. We need to put the forethought into what’s really important because otherwise we’ll end it Do this look for people like us?Exactly, because the logic is amazing. So therefore, if you’re like me, you must be amazing. And before you know it, the entire company, the team is all people who are similar and whatever those similarities are, and that that comfort level that logic is what gets in our way.Michele: Wow, that that, um, is somewhat surprising.How could it be that way? is somewhat surprising just from my own experiences. I would like you to tell all of our listeners how to get in touch with you.Melissa:Absolutely.So you go to our website, which is www dot CareerFH dot place right there.And if you click the contact, you’ll be able to contact our organization contact me or you can always go
to LinkedIn and look me up. My name is Melissa Dobbins and Melissa Dobbins and career dot place. You’ll Write up front. And I’d love to hear from you.Michele: Thank you so much, Melissa for joining us, everybody. I hope you really enjoyed this session. Continue to tune in and we will talk to you next time.
Thank you

Michele: What is up everybody? Thank you so much for joining us. This is Michele Heyward, with KC Atha here for your DEI Thursday. Today we are going to talk about Black Panther and five and five reasons why Black Panther is diversity, equity and inclusion. Your life. What in the world are you really talking about? Um, so we want to take a really an introspective look at Black Panther. Um, you just lost Chadwick boseman, who is like me and sockliner native who actually the same age so this is a huge loss for me on a on a different level than a lot of people on being from South Carolina him having risen to fame, and really just how the characters he’s played, not just white Panther. He also played James Brown James Brown is literally an A it’s also a native of South Ilana and literally was born 12 miles from where I’m sitting. So for me it is a different type of loss from other fans because of what Chadwick bought to a lot of natives, especially in rural areas here in South Carolina. So I wanted wanted to definitely talk about the lens of Black Panther when it comes to protect me inclusion. So casing thought I was crazy at first and then she’s like, Oh, wait, this is really great. This is a good idea. So let’s, let’s get into it. So I’m gonna let KC kick it off, because she has some really fantastic notes. And then I have my own thing. So we might have more than five. But we just went with five because we don’t want to be here all day. We’re gonna kind of rein it in at five. Okay, so go, Hey, KC, and once you kick it off.KC: All right, well, I just want to start and say thanks, Michelle. consistently, you come up with great topics. And then when Michelle pitches me the topic, I think, hmm, and then I allow my brain to sort of go and that’s what got to happen. Last And so I did come up with about five, which I like to come up with five things. And I’ll just name the five and then go through them, and then we can chat about them. Is that sound good? Yes. All right. Cool. So the first one, I have my little notes over here. So the first one that came up for me was optimism. So well, let’s back it up. Sorry. So Black Panther is Afro futurism, which I have to admit I don’t really know that much about, but it has been very intriguing to me since Black Panther came out. So that’s already like, Hello, do you see the power there? Um, I know, it was big in the black community. But I’m in the Latino community, growing up where I did and it just wasn’t that I wasn’t introduced to it. So Black Panther introduced me to more afrofuturism understanding, understanding that it’s imagination, plus liberation plus the future plus technology. And that’s, that’s just fun. So, anyway, so here’s back to the five number one optimism so when you watch that, I feel the optimism, because we see outcomes and belonging, which is something that we are striving to bring more of into the workplace, into our lives into the way that we show up. We want to feel belonging, we want to feel optimistic about the potential outcomes that can come into our lives. So to me, that’s just number one. That’s the power of Black Panther and afrofuturism. So number two, I think is we’re also really powerful. It redefines culture and the notions of blackness. So how often do we see this portrayal of blackness? Not very often, right? So Rena defines it, it gives us a space to imagine something more, something different. And it breaks from so number three, I get excited about this one, it breaks from the anti black white settler narrative. And so what that means is that we have just been brought up in this society globally. Colonial As I’m spread out all over the place, so it’s not just the United States but we have this colonizer mentality. Um, you know if you’re powerful, or white is right, or whatever it is, that is, you know, our conditioning. And so whenever we think of something unconscious bias tells us you know, think of a doctor, boom, you’re thinking of a certain stereotype. Think of a teacher, think of a name it janitor, think of someone who does your lawn, think of someone who does your nails. Boom, we have our stereotype, bam in there. So afrofuturism breaks that it breaks that colonizer brain that taught us to think in very specific ways that keeps us in our place. So I just love it brink. So number one, optimism number two, redefining number three breaking from the settler narrative number four i need i don’t know maybe I’ll be called in for this and I’ll take it but it normalize the word colonizer for me and I got to say it, I got to say colonizer. As a pejorative, like very openly that just felt really liberating to me. I know that’s silly, but I just felt like I get to say that in like a way that is understood because so many people watch the movie. And so many people are hopefully being reflective about it and saying, What is this, you know, so that was number four. And then number five is normalizing black power. So black folks were centered, they were the powerful ones, they were the ones with technology, they were living a liberated life. Um, and that imagination of the future and possibilities is something that doesn’t come naturally to me. So I loved being able to see this. Um, so it just normalizes black power, people in power and to tie it into the workplace. I think we need to normalize seeing black people in power. So whenever it happens, people don’t just think, Oh, you were the diversity hire because our brains have been so conditioned to think in one way. So that’s sort of What I felt was very exciting as well as to add to the normalization of black people in power. And that interrupts white supremacy, the white supremacy narrative that we’ve just been swimming in the water we swim in that we oftentimes don’t see and is unconscious. So just to recap, optimism, redefining breaking from the colonizer narrative, I get to say colonizer and we get to see black people in power. So those are my top five. Okay, Michelle,Michele: okay, no, this, this is how I see it in and I may not have five and they’re going to be somewhat interwoven into what KC has, has added. One thing that was great about Black Panther was the normalization of black people being smart. And so, of course, Sheree is my favorite character. She’s an engineer. She’s a scientist. She’s developing new technology right? So to me, that really is 180 degrees of what a lot of black women encounter, especially being technical professionals. Like she is true. Like we can name on one hand, who’s driving that? Like we’ve only had one black woman CEO, and she was a chemical engineer at Xerox. Right? We are talking about the system. Last night at Google, there was an agent, at&t, who did Voice over IP develop Voice over IP. We’re talking so we’re talking a handful of women, black women, specifically in engineering and technology, who are now 5060 Plus, like, so where’s that next generation? Um, where there’s the tail end Gen Xers that have developed technology that have no acknowledgement, and so to see that being acknowledged, like in charge, she wasn’t even question when she said, Hey, I have this next thing develop, right? He was taking it. She knew what the hell she was doing. They didn’t come in and out. Well, oh, well, can you get your boss? Or can you go make me a coffee? She said, she did what she did. She does what she do, and she’s damn good at it. And so that, for me was huge and pivotal, just coming in as a tendon professional as an engineer, as a tech startup founder that was truly important. And part of looking at it through a diversity, equity and inclusion lens. Number two, the warriors in the movie were women. Powerful, right? And, again, when you look at the military, you don’t see you they aren’t appreciated at the same level, as you see in Black Panther and I saw an Instagram post. And it was a woman and she was saying how she is a picture of her with a probably an eight year old boy. They’re both black, and it was at church and she was like, he doesn’t he believes that. I’m part of like pastors military. I forget what they’re called right now. And so she’s like he made he wanted to make sure I took a picture with him because she was bald. And so she was bald. So he was, so they’re doing like this. But what he, this young child sees the power of black women. And so because it was portrayed in such a positive way, in that movie, it literally is countered, contradicting what is often taught in white supremacy, what is really built in systemic racism, which are black women being over sexualized, not highly educated, having multiple children, single mothers, and it was completely different in the empowerment that comes from Black Panther. So breaking down the barriers and not barriers but breaking down what I want to say the stereotypes and when it comes to black women, so Third, the third thing that comes to mind It was really that black people create a powerful communities that are all black
that are driven by technology. But you know, it was a really interesting thing. They hid it from the world. Yeah, they hid it from the world, because what colonization had taught them, it would not be used appropriately. I want you to think about that. They hid it from the world because they felt and thought and had seen how colonization or colonizers would inappropriately use the technology, right? And so it’s really taken to account now. How how resources, whether we always say especially in tech startup space, black founders, brown founders are over mentor an under resource and they’re like, you know what, we’re not gonna give you this resource because you No, it has to do with it. And so it was very interesting to see that dynamic and how it was split onto the other side in the movie and how again, that technology was stolen to be used by a colonizer or something and a purpose that they did not agree with. So it was really, really interesting. But the next part that I really liked about Black Panther, um, and again, diversity, equity inclusion, so they weren’t inclusive of the use of cheering that technology. We were like, now, we’re not gonna do it. We’re not gonna be like, it’s not anti tech. It is they’re like, no, we’re not going to do it. But what was really the pivotal part for me was, and I’m at four, so I didn’t I don’t have I don’t have five yet. But the fourth one was that the end of the movie, when Bucky said the end of the movie, and sure it goes to Black Panther and says you won’t be another white boy to fix. It so often happens in movies and you can look at every single movie With a superhero, it is a white man saving the world. That is not what happened. And so when you look at the lens of how white supremacy has set up with its television, movies, books, history, even education system, the power and the impact that black people have had his grace. And Sheree was like, No, no, I’m a tech person if you really want me somebody else to say, and so it is a good it’s a black woman coming in to help and save the day. And it was just like, it’s no white savior in that in that moment. It is truly saying we are not charity. We have that we have what we need. We need you to do what you need to do to break down systemic racism. And so for me, it was so many different layers of diversity, equity inclusion, within Black Panther. If you put it in that lens, don’t get me wrong. Don’t Don’t go watch it. If you haven’t watched Don’t watch it through a DI lens at first just enjoy the movie
is really good.
Yeah, but, um, but also look at what it looks like on the other side when it comes when it comes to diversity and inclusion. And and lastly well this is the fifth thing when you think about diversity equity inclusion, that movie literally included black people in superheroes side, the only other superhero that had been big had been storm in x men that was that had generally been portrayed by black woman Halle Berry. This was the first time where you had a cast of black actors in a superhero movie at this level, performing this well. Um, there have been others don’t get me they’ve been David. I’m Robert Townson. years ago, he’s done great movies as well. Um, and as an actor and a director, and pulling in like, I’m, while I’m Eddie Murphy and other black actors so don’t I’m not downplaying them. What I’m really saying is Black Panther did at a level these other movies had not. And it’s truly important to understand the impact generation after generation like children literally little boys and little girls crying because the actor who played Black Panther to them is the same person right, has died. And so what does that mean to them as their opportunity and possibility? So, um, so it’s really, really important. So we have a yes, it’s important for our young ones to see themselves as heroes. It truly is. And that’s truly a dynamic um, when we think about representation and just a bonus, when we always talk about, especially with At positive power hire, we talk about representation. Why is it important to have representation from the C suite down in an organization and how that helps build out an inclusive workplace. How it helps then provide start providing on retention, better retention of your, your, your employee base, and help you also drive and create a more diverse employee base, especially as you improve your culture. Now, what we don’t often get to see is how that can truly impact of having somebody who looks like you. And I think having Chad with die, we saw the true impact of what that was right? In the reactions like Twitter even said, Oh my god, this is the most retweeted tweet in the history of Twitter. Have you seen that? It was about Chadwick both boseman I’m dying. And they had not seen that in what what is? Oh 806 since Twitter, it’s been around, it’s been 1012 1214 years. And that and that’s the impact of when you have somebody who represents you at that level, and you literally can dream, take a dream and make it reality. And whatever that reality is because it builds in a different type of hope, and aspiration and possibilities for you. So that’s why for me, especially coming from rural South Carolina, where you don’t have high speed internet, it is a completely different impact for a lot of people from the small towns who don’t have access to certain things. But this is one person that they can more relate to coming from a small state, with a high population of black residents, and citizens on how it can truly impact your hopes, dreams and aspirations. So that that’s my take on dei and some more when it comes to Black Panther and the late great Chadwick boseman.KC: You know, that’s good stuff. Michelle, and I, you know what? I’m going to keep thinking about the part I didn’t think about, you brought this up the part about where they didn’t want to share it. And sort of like understanding that it’s like the lack of trust because what they have experienced in the past or what they’ve seen happen in the past with the colonizer type mindset. And so they were afraid to share the technology because of fear of how it would be used. And I think about that a lot because we have a lot of technology and AI and how that’s being used. And the people coding it. I mean, AI has just been coded and embedded with supremacy in there at multiple levels, or multiple intersections, I mean, and so yeah, it’s like it’s a tool that can cause harm or not depending on who is in power and what and how they’re driven like, what are their values? And how are they going to decide? So you know, colonizer looking at power, money hoarding that making it more versus Black Panther community was more about, like, how do we make this benefit all people and also not get it in the wrong hands, but then, you know, and so that that’s interesting. I like that. I like thinking about that a little bit more. So now I have to watch it again. Michelle.
Good watch it, watch it 5011 more times, as we say, more time. But it’s it’s really important to understand the impact of having somebody who looks like you are look different than what you traditionally see on TV. And so I, you know, ever like you can’t you know, the thing of going around right on social media is you can’t replace Chadwick boseman. And people like, well, if we go back to the comic book, surely becomes the black pants. there so I’m for that. So I with that one. So you like however you do Black Panther, right the character the male version, right? Um what Charla, what are you gonna do when and how do you migrate now into surely becoming the Black Panther. So that’s what I’m really interested in I see girls in STEM take over for that when that movie drops, maybe that’s 2022 2024 right now with a pandemic, but it’s definitely going to change again the tide of what we see as far as the next generation. Because when that drops, it really is going to generally when you have movies like that if you look at what happened with Hidden Figures, it piques the interest in young people and even older people when it comes to fields and industries and technology and so forth. They are not familiar with. And so moms and parents and grandparents are buying all these toys and like I don’t know what this software is, this app is but we want to get you this and your main camp. So you’re going to see an influx when that movie drops because it’s going to drop and we want to push for it. I don’t know who exactly we is. But if you made me comment here, tweet me DM me, message me, email me because we need to make sure that happens because it will truly inspire the next generation of scientists, technologists, engineers, mathematicians, actuaries, right. They’re gonna drive and change so much when it comes to medical devices when it comes to AI machine learning. I’m manufacturing our environment right saving the ice caps, clean water. So they are really who we we have to focus on when we’re creating even fictional stories such as Black Panther.
That’s right. Well, I’m in join, add me to the left Okay,
come on, come on. gotta grab this list. All right, everybody. That is it. I will be back next week. Without KC. We will still be talking about diversity equity inclusion. I will see you next week Thursday. Everybody have a great week. KC was so
Oh yeah, good. Oh, I don’t know.
Bye, everyone.

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Michele: Welcome, everybody. Thank you for joining me for another session today with us. We have Lekisha Middleton, who is the founder of the good success network. Look, Keesha, thank you for joining.Lekisha:Thank you for having me, Michelle.Michele:So let me ask you, how did you or why did you rather create the good success network? And what is it?Lekisha:Wow, the good success network, we are a consulting and executive coaching firm that started in actually about five years ago. And the reason I created it, I started with crina for coaching, just to help other individuals manage their careers. And then once I left my global firm, and what completely out of my own, I expanded it to offer consulting as well. But the reason I started it is because I’ve always wanted to be entrepreneur. And I figured it was just time to do so. And I really wanted to be able to help my clients on my terms and offer that, you know, give them the offerings that I thought would be most beneficial to them.Michele: Okay. So can you tell us a bit about your career path? Because this is a little bit different than let’s say, about 12 years ago, we initially met? Did I? So location, this is different from when I met you, about 12 years ago, you were doing something different? What were you doing 12 years ago? And like, how did you get to executive coaching.Lekisha:So, when we met in Pittsburgh, 12 years ago, I was in it, like completely in it, I was in our PMO office at the time. And you know, although I was in tech, I was still doing more process, you know, pm based work. And I’ve always played that role. Well, both of my degrees are in IT management. But I’ve always played the role between the business right, I can speak both languages. So between the business and technology, and how I got to where I am now is because I realized that although I sat in tech, people was always my passion, right, making sure that they were learning making sure that they were able to do their jobs effectively, was always what I was passionate about. So when I took my job at, you know, consulting firm I was previously employed at, I got into organizational change at the time. And it was just, it was a great fit. It was a great fit, I was able to pull people process and technology together. And I’ve continued to do that since I was there. So yeah, and then the coaching piece, really, you know, goes on to the part about developing people and helping them to be their best selves.Michele:
Yeah, you have that PPT, people, processes and technologies. see him coming up, coming up with stuff for you.Lekisha:
Write that down as well.Michele:
It might be recorded somewhere, I might let you catch it from there. But okay. So I love the migration and really finding where your fit is, especially with as you grow our skills, skill set? Yes. When you think about executive coaching, what a common myths you run into, when you tell people what you do.Lekisha:
what everyone thinks I’m a life coach, right, which I don’t deny, depending on what your view of life coaches but some people’s view is, is very extreme. And the reality is, is I am sort of a life coach, because everything works together. I can’t coach you on your career, right, or on how to negotiate a salary. If we don’t talk about your life, if I don’t know how your what your lifestyle is, if there’s something in your home that is impacting you, that’s going to come out in our session. So I think that’s the biggest misconception. People just don’t know what a coach is. And it’s not a therapist, you know, I’ll be clear with that. But a coach is simply getting you from point A to B, quicker than you would on your on your own. Yeah, that’s all the coaches. So that’s what I do for my clients.Michele: So, we are sitting now, in the midst of pandemic and before I even get to that part, I want us to talk about equity, specifically, equal pay, or women and people of color prior to the pandemic. And what what did that what does that look like?Lekisha:
Oh, prior to the pandemic, I mean, there there’s still a disparity right? We do. So well, I wouldn’t say celebrate, but acknowledged, equal pay day a few weeks ago back in March. And that date every year is on the day, in the following year that it takes women on average, right? They collect all women, on average to make the same amount per dollar that men make that white males made. And I mean, before, you know that you hear diversity, equity inclusion so much, and it’s become more of a buzzword, but the reality is, there’s still so much work to do. Right? And it’s, it’s, it’s more than just one is not one lunch, you can’t it depends on the company, you’re in your depends on how diverse the company is. It depends on what salary you ask for when you enter the door. Right? Because if you start at a lower rate, it’s that much harder to get, you know, raises and promotions once you get in the door. So it’s really a lot around education, as far as how do we really upfront ask for what we want with you know, with research and with data and asking for a reasonable number, so that we naturally are putting ourselves at a at a more fair and equitable place when it comes to to pay.Michele:Great, thanks. Thanks for sharing that. So we’re in the midst of the pandemic mercy disparities in who gets to work remotely? Yeah. And who doesn’t? Even then, there’s a pay gap. Right? Even so now it is, it’s not critical. What was the term they use for essential worker? Yes, yes, essential workers. And what that looks like in COVID, 19 is very different than what a lot of people may have thought 30 days ago. How do you foresee or some things that should be considered when you’re continuing to look at the pay gap specifically for essential workers? Yeah. SoLekisha:I mean, that’s an excellent question. Right. So you the just like you stated, when you when you say essential, now, you think about the ER doctor, and you think about the postal worker, right. And you think about the farmer who’s producing our food, you think about the, you know, the, the public transportation worker that’s operating the metro or train system in your state, right? These are not people that we often think about as essential workers. And I will definitely venture to say that every parent in America is thinking teachers right now, right? That’s what we keep hearing about teachers is like, we always say teachers don’t get paid enough. But right now, parents are really realizing how much teachers do. They’re not just teaching. They’re they’re actually parenting your kid to bother. They’re, they’re being therapists, they’re being coaches, you’re doing all these roles, that they’re not getting paid for. So I’m what I am hoping is that we really level the playing field here, right? and reevaluate how we’re compensating people for the real impact that they make not just a title they’re in, but the impact they made. Because that this has been eye opening, we’re the people that you know, we walk by every day and see them, as you saw, may see as less than now they’re, they’re essential.Michele:It is it’s interesting, because prior to the pandemic, be like, oh, a robot can do that, or we’ll have software to do that. And right now you’re going like, Oh, my God, thank you so much for being here. You know, I really appreciate what you’re doing. And those people have been there. Yes. Before the pandemic. And I, all my friends, if you if you’re a friend of mine on Facebook, it’s probably some public posts anyway. I’ve said hey, to all the teachers that follow me are connected to me. Be sure you screenshot all these things parents are saying about educators. Because when it’s time to go vote for you to get a pay increase, start sharing what they said during the pandemic, to remind them how how much they realize what you do and the value you bring to them and their children. So I like that people can easily forget, but a screenshot will that last longer.Lekisha:Reach out this forever.Michele: Hashtag screenshot is forever. Now. One of the things that we like you mentioned was negotiating your salaries, your contracts in your promotions. Yes. And women, oftentimes too often don’t do this. What are some things That the women or people of color can do, then what are things employers should be aware of? At the same time?Lekisha: So I would say from the, the candidates side, right, so the women and people of color, we have to be aware of this the value that we bring out, I stated that earlier, but what is the value in the work that you do? So many times, even when we write our resumes, it’s very tactical, right? It’s first starting with a verb, and here’s their end result. But one of the things I always recommend to my clients is, what’s the value? So you ran the report, but what was the value in running that report? Right? Did you say help the company save money? Did some processes become more efficient, right? So really, being able to speak to your value? The more you can recognize that the more you can actually put quantify that right? The second thing I would say is do your research. Google is our friend. Right? So there’s so many ways to you know, whether it’s salary, comm or pay scale or Glassdoor different resources, where you can see in your area, what are they paying, you can see the low the high end and median pay scale. So you know, at least what to go in with. And you know, I would go into a little higher than the median. So there are some negotiating room there as well. But just do your research, and really, really own what you bring to the table. Because the reality is, most of the time, we’re not asking for a certain amount, because we’re not really internally don’t believe that we’re worth asking you for that. But when you know what, what you’re worth, you’re you asked for it without apology.Michele: So yeah, you gave a great list of resources. I love those resources. Yeah. And there’s always debate on whether you’re working remote or not, which salary Are you negotiating for? And, and I and I go back to someone who negotiated a salary for certain locations, oh, we want you to move here. And they’re like, Well, I didn’t negotiate a salary for there. And they didn’t want to give them a salary change. Or they wanted to just do a cost of living adjust. They didn’t even want to do a cost of living adjustment or anything. And so how do you think now that everybody’s predicting that we’ll get to be more remote working? How would that impact? salaries are? and and you know, especially with the pay gap?Lekisha: So here’s the thing, it’s it, there are different schools of thought with that, right? Because So, you know, based on what you asked before about from the employer standpoint, some people would would charge less, right, some employees would would pay you less, because you’re working from the comfort of your home. The reality is, everybody doesn’t like working from home. Right? People like, you know, every, the reasons that they give for offering less is you don’t have to commute. Right? So can you run into cost of gas, putting, you know, mileage on your car paying for parking, especially when you’re in places like DC, New York, that kind of thing, the time that it takes commuting back and forth? That’s the that’s a lot of the reasons that they give. But the reality is that that doesn’t change the value that I bring. Exactly right. So if I’m working from home, it shouldn’t matter. Because they need the same I believe in the same the same cost. Now some people would be that when it comes from the employer standpoint, that is a way to for negotiating room because based on that person situation, if they want to work home enough, they may come down on your salary, right? So that’s something that they have to you know, kind of figure out, but you know, I don’t charging less like my work is mostly remote with occasional travel to the client, my rate is still my rate.Michele: Great, great point. Now as we look at salary gap in relation to equity in DNI What does that look like? What What should employers be aware if they’re truly working on creating diverse and inclusive workplace where there’s equity for all of their employees?Lekisha: So I can’t remember I may have to research this now because I do remember a company either last year or the year before they actually went through all of their employees salaries. And so if you have the same title, you’re doing similar work, right? You’re on the same team. And let’s say one person was making more they level out all salaries. So based on the highest salary that was being paid. Now, there are certain things like, you know,
years of
service, you know, where you get extra perks and things like that, but actually just starting where you are, right? So is somebody in your other two people in your department doing the same work and one is getting 25,000 more a year than other? That’s huge, right? So there’s really no way to justify that if they’re doing the same work, they’re adding similar value, they should be getting paid the same. And if they’re not, if they’re supposed to be doing the same work, and one person is not adding as much value, then that’s something else that needs to be dealt with, right. But if they’re doing the work, you need to pay them for that. So that that’s why I think most companies just start is just by assessing the current pay scales in their company at the time, and then seeing what they can do about that. Then as you’re bringing in new hires, you already have that data cleaned up. So then you have a baseline to start with. Right. But that that’s what you know, I would recommend, I’m not saying it’s easy, but if you really committed to being equitable, then you will do it. Michele:
Yeah, I remember when Salesforce did it, two years ago, and it was on CBS, and the I think, the Chief Human Resource Officer, like she went to the CEO and like, hey, I need you to agree to this. Even I don’t know how much it’s going to be. And he was like, well, he like just or are you on board or not? He was like, Okay, I’m on board. And there was a few million dollars in gender equity from women and men or those who identified as women and men that they had to increase salaries with. And then they did it a second time. They’re like, wait, why are we doing it a second time that we acquire new cuffs companies. And so we have to continue to do it and watch it like you said, especially if you’re doing acquisitions, you’re looking then on how it looks? And and especially if you’re bringing in different job titles and duties, yeah, coming out startup, you could have one title and you’re doing five jobs. Lekisha:
That’s so true. And it was Salesforce. That’s who it was. And that’s the thing that people don’t think about, right? When you anytime you merge with another company, there’s that rationalization that needs to be done. So there are people you literally have to do like the comparison to see, okay, you’re doing this job in this company that we just acquired, how does that match up with some of the jobs? Sometimes you have to create new titles, right, based on how big the groups are? So yeah, it’s those are real conversations that we need to be having. But it all starts with getting the your stuff clean now, because if you don’t, you’re just adding bad processes on top of that process, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh,Michele: so I’m enjoying this a lot. I like talking about money.Lekisha: I did. Yes. What do you got next? I’m pumped up. You know,Michele: I know. So you have talked a lot about salary and tools and things like that? What are what are your biggest accomplishment in helping clients, increase their salary and really find a career that they like?Lekisha:Oh, that’s a good question. So that’s a good question. One of my biggest accomplishments, I would say, definitely. Now that I’m, you know, I did a lot of mentoring and coaching before I broke out on my own right. So just really talking through that with because I had like countless people that I counsel that the time, but really, in now, with the coaching, most of my clientele that comes to me, they’re high performing workers, right. So they’re, they’re the consultants, they’re the, you know, the engineers, they’re the the medical professional, they’re, you know, they’re
the C level executives.
So when they come to me, though, they’re at a fork in the road. So a lot of times that requires a career change, as well. And really getting them to, again, that value assessment of, you know, what do you bring to the table, no matter what the role is, right? What are the things that you bring into the table that way if they do change careers, because that’s one thing we think, too, if we change careers, but I can’t ask for that amount anymore. But if you’re adding value that the company needs, and they’re willing to pay that, why can’t you get paid that amount, right? So it’s really about thinking differently. So my accomplishments is, you know, I’ve had at least two of my clients that switch careers, it was able to either sustain or get paid higher than they were before and do work that actually love. So when those two things meet, I think that’s just that’s just optimal.Michele: That’s great. What do you see for the future with the good success network. For the Future.Lekisha:
So let’s see, I guess five years from now, right? So one thing that this pandemic has forced me to do, and a lot of ways, which a lot of companies have is to reevaluate our vision, right? And how ready, am I really, for disruption? So what I’m doing is making sure you know, I’ve been using this time, and making sure that the infrastructure that I have in place is solid. So that when the economy does move, again, because I do transformation work, right. So I should be booked and busy for a long time. Right? That is the goal. So making sure that I have the right things in place so that not only can I have continuous work, but also expand in the next couple of years. But you know, my goal, really, is to prepare the workforce of the future, which I feel like we’ve been thrown into already. The future is now right. So that is our goal. And it’s it’s prime time for the type of work we want to do. So I’m excited about what’s to come. Because I feel like we’re already aligned. Michele:
I do too. So how can our listeners get in touch with you?Lekisha:
Okay, so, um, most of my information is my website, I can share a slide
that will show
how they can get connected.
Let me know if you can see it.
Yep, you can see it.
Yeah, so I’m good success. network.com is our website. You can connect with us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. And that’s the place where you can follow us. We try to be interactive, so not just follow just to follow but actually to join in, in the conversations tell us what kind of information you want to hear what are the things that are keeping you up at night, right. And we can provide those kinds of resources as well as thought leadership. But this is a way that you can stay connected as well as I’m the people techie on both Instagram and Twitter. And my LinkedIn is also listed here. Lt. Middleton.Michele: Great. Thank you so much Lekisha really fantastic. Yes. Yeah. And it’s we’re definitely in the midst of change. disruption, for sure. And I can’t wait to see what sort of others I’m liking some of the things that are going on right now. But I can’t wait to see some of the results and changes that come from, from COVID-19. Yes,Lekisha
I mean, there’s a lot I always say there’s, there is opportunity in every obstacle, right. So, you know, although some of us are literally just trying to function on a day by day basis. And that’s fair. I do believe that. Again, there’s a lot of opportunity. And I’m actually excited to see, you know what’s on the other side of this.Michele:
So thanks for joining everybody. Have a great day and we will be back for another episode.