Dear Corner Office

Michele: Okay, look like okay in in the workplace more specifically. I’m getting a lot of questions about what does that look like how to address the messages sent from employers or the nun messages sent from employers. And how to be more like Ben and Jerry’s. So we’re going to talk about that over the next few days, the next few weeks, because being an ally is not a one and done thing. It is a consistent process. So we’re going to talk about it, we want to get into it and, and I’m gonna have Casey kick it off. And really just and when we say ally, we’re literally saying all capital letters, a LL. Why? Because there’s an acronym for that. And what does that look like? For someone who is an ally, who is going to do the work? So, um, so Casey, I’ll let you let you get started.KC: All right, Michelle, I’m going to start us off by doing a battery check. I just want to model this new practice that I’m doing. And I’m asking folks to think of themselves as a battery like a cell your cell phone, battery or Something that you use a lot, your computer, whatever. Um, we need to recharge and we need to connect with folks and understand where they are and where we are. So the first thing I would like to do is just say, Okay, what battery charger am I bringing into this? If I’m at a 20 I’ve got a rush to go get some recharge, if I met a 50, okay, I’m fine. But I’m probably not going to have a long FaceTime conversation on my cell phone if I only have 50 I need to plug in. If I’m at 75 and feeling good, I can run multiple programs and I’m taking action. I’m doing a lot of stuff. And so with that in mind, Michelle, I’m gonna ask you to see what your battery charges my battery charge I have not even thought about so let’s just do a live let’s see, where am I feeling? I’m feeling 55 I think that’s where I’m at right now. 50% is about like, I feel good. 55 is like, I feel like I can do more. I want to do more. I’m energized. You Yeah, so that’s about where I’m at. And the top that I’ve been since quarantine started is about 75%. That’s just straight up the top I can get and that’s doing a lot of self care. So that’s where I’m at. Michele: I’m probably at 40%. That lack of sleep, for sure. A lot of emotional mental energy in responding to the needs of the women in my community, whether they’re black women who are like, Hey, this is the message I’ve sent I’ve posted I’ve shared in terms of some are org to Latina, who are speaking up in the workplace as well to organizations who are looking for what do I say or counter what was said within my employer. It is so many and employers who, that’s a whole other story because a lot of you are going to have attrition, if you thought you had the pandemic was going to keep your attrition low, I can tell you, it is probably has changed drastically right about now. So you really need to pay attention to the things we’re going to be teaching and sharing. If you want to keep your attrition low, and not only listen to it, but take action with it, because I can directly tell you the messages I’m getting are I need a new job immediately, what do you have available? Do you partner with anybody in this city or state. So it is highly, highly important if your black employee base matters to you, because the things that are coming out now are going to have long term impacts on your life. Not only your company culture, but your ability to retain your talent as well as attract new talent. So, so that’s really important and telling for a lot of employers right now. Your messaging or lack thereof, and what what really is an ally so let’s get started let’s start with the A was the list a and ally? KC: Okay so we’re doing an acronym a Ll y, as you said, and the A is becoming aware. So awareness precedes action, you must be aware that there is a problem. You must be aware that you want to fix it or that you don’t want it to exist anymore. You must be aware of how you are connected to the current situation because we all are we don’t get to choose what we are not a part of if we’re not aware. So we will just be upholding racism Without awareness, And that, my friends is unacceptable. We now see in our faces every single day, and we’ve been shown that every single day, but now it has come to a boiling point. So we need to raise our awareness around society’s patterns of oppression and very specifically around black bodies around black communities being under resourced. And how do we contribute to that? Even so much as just ignoring it, not understanding it saying, Well, you know, I don’t have time to read that article, or it doesn’t affect me. Oh, honey, it does. This is our community. If we cut our left hand, it starts bleeding. Do you think the right hands like oh, well, lefthand you didn’t come help me? I’m not gonna come help you. That’s silly. We are the same body. Yeah. Okay. So that’s a Michele: so so that that awareness is okay. It’s not ignoring what is being said. You’re aware of Now it’s combatting things that you never knew existed you thought didn’t exist, you thought was very limited. But there are multiple voices, millions of voices now telling you, no, this is real. And so in that awareness, what are you thinking? What are you feeling? acknowledge that as well, because you’re going as an ally come up against that, again and again. So what are those that what are those societal patterns that you’re seeing? So, when we look at awareness, and we look at societal patterns, we often talk about or I often talk about employment issues, right? So I want you for those of you who are in the workplace, whether you’re in DNI, HR, your hiring manager, I want you to look at your employee base, and look at those who have tradition. additional education and those who do not those who have degrees that are specific to their job roles, and those do not. And as you move up especially into technical roles, you will find out especially among black women, they’re highly educated. But they’re reporting to somebody oftentimes who is not as educated as them. Who has not had to go through as many interviews who are not as doubted about their education and technical ability. Look at the things that are asked of them in the workplace. How often are they asked to admin duties? How often are they assumed to be the admin at best right off, they may be asked if they’re the cleaning staff. So literally take those instances like I’ve never been asked to get coffee. Well, you know, but women are Oftentimes the admins don’t use that. Be aware of what you’re seeing and what they’re telling you. Right? Okay, so let’s go into the first L.KC: Okay, the first L is listen. So we need to listen. And a lot of folks are becoming aware that we need to listen. But I think part of listening that gets forgotten is that oftentimes we will do something called devil’s advocate, or we will interrupt or we will question people and ask them to provide more evidence, etc. Yeah. And that’s not listening. Listening is deep focus, listening. And then you can ask permission to say, Hey, can I reflect this back to you and tell you what I think I heard because sometimes when our brains have not heard of something before, or it’s just totally out of what we’re used to what our normal is, that we cannot process it. It’s confusing, it’s difficult and it usually attaches to like, prior knowledge that we’ve already gained. So if you have been living in a world where you think we’re post racial or it’s not that bad or whatever the story is in your head, there will be resistance, cognitive resistance, but that cognitive resistance towards a person who is telling you that they are experiencing oppression will cause them more harm. So you need to listen. And if that devil’s advocate comes up, go Google it afterwards. Don’t do it on them. They are giving you the gift of sharing their experience. That is a gift. They don’t have to do it. That’s it. Sorry, Michelle. we were talking about listening and not interrupting and not questioning and if our brains are starting to do the devil’s advocate, this doesn’t make sense. I really want to push back on this person. I would do one of two things I would do number one, when you’re listening to someone share an experience that you just your brain is having difficulty wrapping its mind around. Its understanding around Then number one, ask if you can reflect it back to them say, Can I reflect back what I think I heard, I just want to make sure that like you can clarify the parts that I don’t understand. Ask or they say no, I don’t want to repeat all that stuff. Fine. recognize what it is that isn’t making sense and Google it. Because if you go back to the person who’s sharing their lived experience, and they don’t want to prove themselves, rightfully so sometimes it’s exhausting to constantly explain things, then go to Google, figure it out, or maybe follow some of these folks on social media that are sharing a lot of information, a lot of great information. So those are the two things ask if you can reflect it back to check for your own personal understanding as an ally, because you want to deeply understand them, not because you want to convince them of something else, or number to go Google if they’re tired. They don’t want to do the whole explanation. Michele: Absolutely. I guess I jumped ahead a little bit, but it worked out because we lost connection. So To that, listening,
yeah listening is is active. It is it is active. And when you are listening, you’re taking in like she said you’re not questioning, you can do the research yourself. But it’s also important that you are open to listen, meaning you can’t be doing other things. You have to be committed to stopping, not answering the phone not replying to email, shutting your laptop down, putting your phone on mute, be completely present. When you’re listening like you did know let’s say when the conversation started that it was going to go in a certain direction, then stop what you’re doing and still actively listen. It truly is and when I tell people I’ll be 43 next month, as to somebody just noticed on the calendar my birthday was, but when I tell them I saw the KKK March, they’ll say like, oh, but you’re in South Carolina. I said, Yeah, but I saw the Confederate flag fly in Illinois. Or I’ve seen, you know, the result of police brutality in Pittsburgh. And I’ve seen this in Oklahoma, then it’s like,
oh,
and so, if they had actively listen to me in the beginning, I’m then going through more of my trauma of the things that I’ve experience to prove to them that what I said is true. Do not put black people in that position again, to relive that. Do your own research. Talk with other people who work in this space, to understand to help you understand and grow better as an So actively listen.KC:
All right, that’s right. All right, Nextel.Michele: Yes, the next L. Okay. So the next L is all an ally keeps learning about brute and power dynamics affect the way the people, the way people are perceived. So an ally keeps learning about how group and power dynamics affect the way people are perceived. So, when you’re thinking about that,
when you’re looking at groups, what do you see when you look at Black people versus non black people, right, even if it’s other people of color, and what have those biases and those systematic racial things that come about? We are have the same black people. They’re like, Oh, black people are lazy. I was like, we were lazy after suddenly after slavery after we were free labor, we weren’t free labor. Right? So what are those things that people are saying that are that you’re like? That doesn’t quite make sense, right? So you’re you continue to learn and see how those the things that you are taught, right are not necessarily true, especially when it comes to systematic racism. Krystal, I’ll let you go from here. All right. KC: So sometimes when I think about learning about power dynamics and learning about group identity, I also like to remind people that we need to stay in nuance and not do black and white and not intended. But the nuance of, Okay, I let’s say I’m a black woman, but am I In a position that has more power than a black trans woman does, or a disabled person, or, you know, am I in the majority dominant group right now, and although I may be a queer white man, I’m still in the dominant group because I’m passing so learning about or or Latina lateen x community Hello, let’s go there. You know, we have white passing lateen x people, you get to move through the world in a certain way that brown or black lateen x people are not able and afforded to move through the world. So and then also, if you’re a white Latino person in Latin America, sometimes you’re also getting getting more privileges because white supremacy has traveled to these other countries and there’s colorism now, and it’s internalized. That’s the other thing just because I’m a brown woman doesn’t mean that I don’t have some of that anti blackness. If that was just put into me, I was pickled in the juice of white supremacy. And it’s terrible, because it’s so hard to get out. But the thing is, I’m constantly learning, how does it show up? And how do I root that out of me? learn that learn each time it comes up. So when Michelle was saying, Oh, well, you know, you were thinking, as a leader in a business, people are getting their job list, they really want their job. So we don’t really have to work too hard to keep them. Well, then now this has happened. And guess what? I’m looking at the companies that are saying something. And I’m also listening to the deafening silence of many organizations. And like Michelle said, we’ve been having conversation and in seeing on LinkedIn, people sharing their experiences, and it’s just not worth it to stay. For some in an organization where they’re unable to be supported. They’re expected to be like robots and just go to work as if we can just leave our personal life at the door, the virtual door now because we’re Living in our workplaces Now, many of us are still working at home. So anyway, there’s just a lot of things to learn. And I think that oftentimes, we just want to focus on the individual stuff. And we should also learn about the systemic stuff that happens because we, we individually have racism, but it started through systemic decisions and laws and policies that then help us help us believe in white supremacy. They don’t help us understand that it’s a lie that this is all socially constructed, that these are power dynamics. These are stereotypes that drive our behavior, to learn that stuff, get in, dig in. And when you you have the devil’s advocate, come up to your mind think, ah, this is just me not wanting to unlearn that we want to stay in status quo. It’s comfortable there. It’s very uncomfortable when we start saying, I have anti black black racism in me and I am pissed. And I don’t want this community in this nation or whatever. Wherever you are, to do this to children, and like it’s hard enough to get it out of us. So like, let’s learn about that. Let’s interrupt this racism stuff. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s too much, it’s, you know, 400 years too long, or even more than that.Michele:So,
more than that now. So when we’re something I want it to keep in mind. An ally keeps learning about grouping power dynamics. You have seen this week, many of your employees, black, especially Brown, who have taken time off, who have spoken out. As an ally you are going to in the workplace, specifically, you’re going to have to show up, you’re going to see a lot of them if not most of them, get backlash. They understood the risks of speaking out and speaking up and taking a stand and when I say back Flash the lies that people are gonna say, well, you you were difficult to work with and you are highly aggressive. You are late to me like they’re they were on vacation. What are you talking about? Like the blatant things people are going to say that you like, hold up. And you’re going to start learning who is truly living in their power in the NFL, those power dynamics, and see how it is truly impacting the voices of black people. So it is like I say, it’s, it’s, we’re, we’ve said it’s learning and you’re going to see it so much in the next few days is already started. Um, people literally took the time off and people said, well, you were rude to me yesterday. They weren’t even at work on calls and if they’re working from home, and so nobody is like, What are you talking about? And so it has already started. So keep learning and going about like, What’s going on who’s saying what because you need to stay aware, again of what is happening to your black employees in right right about now, for even if they didn’t speak out, others are speaking out. You got to learn, there is a price for us pushing anti racism. Yeah. And making that change. KC: There’s research and studies have shown that if a white person and a black person say the exact same thing in the workplace, they will be received and perceived totally differently. So this is a great place in time for white allies, white passing allies, lateen x allies, anyone who feels that they are aware of their power in this in wherever their situation is. If you are aware that you have some amplify it, say it back them up. Say that you agree. Um put your voice on the line. with them, because in numbers there is power. Don’t leave our black community members standing out there alone and stand next to them stand in front of them and take it. I’ve seen some activists, white activists get in front of black activists to be the buffer between them and the police. How can we be the buffer in the workplace?
Yes.
How? How can we use it? How can we use our power our position?
yourself. Michele: I’m thinking about that video and the young black man jumped the fence and a young white girl stood in front of him. And I’m just like, this is you, you’re putting it on the line. Um, and so you have to realize what you have to do as an ally, especially right now. Some of you have been in this space. You’re going to see a tremendous change in what you have to step into when it comes to being an ally right about now and probably for the next few years. So it I was talking to my mother, my mother’s 73. And she said this reminds her of when Martin was killed. And she went to an HBCU here in South Carolina. If you don’t know what HBCU is, I have a great tool for it is called Google. So that’s HBCU and how they tried to kill her and her classmates. Then they did kill one of her classmates in front of their college. Literally he was walking they ran up on the sidewalk and killed him. She was like this still feels like the 60s and she is 73. That says a lot about how much money We have not progressed since she was 21. And she’s now 73 and how the society is set up to have some believe we’ve progressed so far, when we really happen. Um, the the group and power dynamics are very strong. And that is on purpose. And that really does take you learning what that looks like, where it is stemming from, so that you understand how people perceive it. On on, on so many different levels. So I’m Krystal KC, we’re talking about passing as white Lena Horne. Early in her career, when she was able to do TV and it was black and white. They told her Hey, you can Pass for White. She said no. She refused to her career would have been so different. Had it stay black and white went to color they might have found out. Right. But if she decided to pass for white, what would that have done for her career? But what would that have done for her emotionally? And I’ve talked to Latin x people who are able to pass but refused to, or still feel guilt because people assume they aren’t Latinx. And it’s like, it’s a weight that they carry. But they also started to learn how they were able to leverage that to help those who were not white. And because they could get in those spaces, and make it make those decisions. So it was really, really interesting to talk to somebody who felt guilty Because they could pass in the assumptions that people made. But they learned how to manage it and use it to really be an ally to their own people. And so it was a fascinating because we don’t ever think about it, we think about Oh, you pass. Oh, you know, must be nice. But do they feel some guilt? Or did they take that opportunity to become an ally, to help others who could not pass who could not get into those spaces to make change? So it was a very different conversation that I’ve never thought about from that perspective of an ally who can pass so it is a conversation I’m actually having with somebody on my posts right now, one of my, my LinkedIn posts is about being able to pass so Okay, so we’re going to go to the why we spent a lot of time on them on that. The second l but it was needed. So we’re going to the why. So we talked about why this is my my favorite one. And ally says yes to using their power to help break down old oppressive power patterns by engaging in thoughtful strategic action. Let me back that up. I want to I want to, I want us to really focus on this. And ally says yes to using their power to break down oppressive power patterns by engaging in thoughtful, strategic action. See, you know, I’m an engineer. I’m an engineer and, and that strategic action is really important to me. So what we’ve seen is, yes, Black Lives Matter and their vintage air like Let me tell you what we got to do. They literally came out with four pillars. And, and Ben and Jerry’s is about this life point blank period, right in that period was a team not to do it. And it’s to do that. They’re about this life, meaning they understood and understand and have for a long time, what systematic racism is. So as your as an ally, you’re like, Oh, my God, Michelle, I can’t take it off. I just told somebody, pick one, which one of those pillars that they presented? Are you willing to dig into and say yes, as an ally, and it may not be a pillar working directly with Ben and Jerry’s, don’t get this confused, but as a pillar you can work on within the organization where you’re an ally for black people. What does that look like? So say yes to that, like if you don’t know where to start, they just make it easy. Go to Ben and Jerry’s calm.
Google, Ben and Jerry statement, pick a pillar and literally work through what is that strategy? What is that strategic action you’re going to take as an ally on that one thing within that organization, so make it and I’m about really getting very specific, very minute, and drilling in because when we’re everywhere, we get nothing done because we feel confused and overwhelmed. But really drilling one of those pillars down to what you can do instead of the whole world into this one organization. Right. And sometimes it’s not even the one or is that one Office of International Organization? Like Where can you make change for black people? Okay, Krystal.KC: All right. So I want to point out one thing the Why is little Last on purpose, okay, so you got to get yourself aware, you got to listen, you need to be comfortable listening, and not interrupting and not doing double that get, and then you learn so that you can be thoughtful and strategic in your action. Okay, so when we see these things happening in real time, sometimes we freeze, and we don’t know what to do and how to respond, sign that information. The next time I don’t want to freeze, I want to take action. I want to stand up for my black co coworker. How can I do that? Think about it. What would I do next time? How could I stand up for them next time or follow up with them and say, Hey, you know what, I saw what happened and I didn’t think it was cool. And I froze. Like, is this something I could be doing next time for you to support you or whatever I don’t know. Talk to people recognize it. So even if you’re freezing, say, how could I support black people? What can I do to benefit black people in my organization right now? So before you take action, you can’t answer that without learning without listening and without being aware. So you cannot answer the How do I support black people? If you haven’t done your awareness, listening and learning work, you just can’t. It won’t be strategic. It won’t be thoughtful. It’ll just be reactive. Yes, we’re mad and yes, we’re enraged. But then what? It’s just a flash in the pan, boom. Let’s build that solid foundation through awareness, listening and learning and then we take action finally. So that’s the one thing I want to say that it’s like, yes, we all want to take action. But be aware listen and learn. So go to those websites, go to Black Lives Matter. Go to freedom fund and understand why we need to put so much money into bail bonds. Like go figure out why. Why do some people not have help? insurance in my company and I do, why do I get mental health days and they don’t. And yet I’m in the dominant group and they’re in the marginalized group. They’re the ones being oppressed more. So once you have that awareness, you’re like, Wait a second, our essential workers are actually getting a death sentence right now, with that awareness, you’re gonna start listening, what would help you? What? Learning around like, when is this happened before? What are organizers doing that have been doing this work for decades? You know, just because we get upset sometimes we feel like I have to take action. And then we go and build something new and do something new and just make ourselves feel better. But at the end of the day, what and how is that benefiting our black community? I don’t know. Because I didn’t listen, I didn’t learn. But if I did, then now I’m connecting with people. It’s not just me alone, but I’m with a group and we have power. And we can make real change and move beyond just inter racism at the individual level and start breaking it down to systemic racism. So that’s why why is last that’s why action is last not because all the other ones are action as well. But awareness, listening and learning, those are all active. Awareness is questioning yourself looking at yourself, put the mirror up. Listening is action because you are asking someone and then you are asking them to reflect back what you think you heard so that you can cement it in your brain and understand it from their point of view. You’re learning that is active, that’s taking the two minutes to read the Twitter thread of a black woman sharing her experience in the workplace and then Say yes, say yes to those things. Michele: Absolutely. I did. I don’t know if you get my my I don’t send out emails often I did during the pandemic that was of course to support the positivity community, but I literally shared my story of living in St. Louis, when Mike Brown was killed, and my then employers response was v safe, they’re protesting not understanding the danger I face as a black woman every single day, every single moment. So, it is truly important
to understand the role of an ally in that awareness and being strategic in your action, because it impacts us a lot of times before they impact you. So the action you take, they may not take it against you, just from power dynamics. They will take it against us. So it is true important that as an ally, you understand that you have to be strategic in those movements you make, because you are truly working to dismantle racism. We have a few comments in here and I and I don’t want to ignore them. I know it is not a it’s a timely topic, but it is also a heavy topic. If you are looking to like What are y’all talking through? What are you talking about? We put together like a quick sheet of like, what is an ally, a Ll? y. So you understand what that is on a more on a simple term. So absolutely, companies and one of the comments. Absolutely. If companies aren’t speaking up now, they’re doing a huge disservice to their team and their culture. Well, I don’t know if it’s a disservice to their culture because their culture it speaks to their culture. KC: 
Um, so We are upholding their culture by being silent. So they’re just showing their culture yes in silence so that Michele: and if some have made statements to their internally to their orgs they never mentioned black blackness, murder, Black Lives Matter. It is we are all feeling this. You don’t feel what I feel. So, it so when they removed date completely erase black from the entire message. That is how you know, they do not get it. And their employees are sitting like why they knew it, but you just proved it. You have no clue what’s really going on and they’re looking at these messages going, you know what, Michelle? Um, you have anybody looking for a software engineer, a civil engineer, a structural engineer, mechanical engineer, whatever. Because they are on their way out the door you literally prove that the systematic racism is so deep in that organization you will not say black and, and not only that the people who are not black and who are not allies are now wickiup like they didn’t say black one, one word so Okay, um one of the other comments was Yes, I have so many good friends who are who organizations have not have not even taken the time to address the in justices we witness on television. I’ll say this. We look at the timeline in which employed or says something better Jerry’s was not the first, this was the most strategic response. That was the first. And so coming out of construction, it’s like we always get bids, but what is the most responsive bid? I know I like I always have these up off the wall comparison. But what was the most strategic response? Right? So people are looking at who responded, what timeline, what percentage, how many employees they have, what percentage are black? What percentage of their employees, their employees that are black are in management, in, in, in upper management in C suite and onboard? People are running that data? Trust me, they are looking hard. And so you are being scrutinized whether you say something or not. And you’re also being scrutinized on how you say it. So some of you like Oh, we don’t have to say this. Oh, Yes, you do. And it is even to the better your betterment to say I was wrong when somebody came and told me this than it is to say we’re all feeling this and completely erase blackness out of your message to your employee base. All right. From a corporate standpoint, I don’t understand how affinity groups based on race helps bill allies I need to understand that perspective. It really varies per organization. And you have affinity groups and you have employee resource groups, affinity groups, if they are aligned, if the if the organization is set up to take in the feedback from the affinity groups to make change, meaning there is an disruption So, for that affinity group literally has power and influence in our organization to make change, then it works when a sponsor only shows up for that keynote event for Black History money event, then you probably have the wrong sponsor, they are not speaking out and they are not making change in the organization. So, it is truly important to understand if you have a sponsor or a sponsor who is an ally that is truly going to use their power and influence to make change within our organization. So sometimes it the person that really drove it, retired diet quit, went moved on whatever and, and
things change over time. So it really depends also how long that it takes. And the group is and whether you need to come back in and say, Hey, this is what we need to be doing now. This was started 30 years ago, 20 years ago in the 90s, whatever in the 80s. This is what we need to be doing now. Okay, next and last comment we have Yeah, that is very true. It’s a great indication of culture if they aren’t speaking up my company speaking up and taking action. And I’m grateful to be here. Yes, that’s what I love. I actually have a friend who spoke up in an organization. The to C suite is an international organization. She’s Latina, she was like the messaging you sent does not address what is really going on. Um, and there is a power struggle between the US and the international office. The international office will not respond. The US office is like We need to be saying x, y, z. And she said, You know what, you can keep this I quit. Literally, she like the international office would not respond. She’s like, I do not work for an organization, nor will I work for an organization that will not address black lives and what they’re doing. She’s Latin x, she’s Latina. She said, I refuse. She’s like, because if we aren’t standing here now as an international organization, because we should be addressing anti blackness in the Latin x community. What does this really say about the organization? This is not an organization I can take a paycheck from, and she quit. And she is okay with that. And so you have allies that are going to come in and say you know what, this is not the place they are not looking to make change and you may find it a ally you had before your affinity group that was using their power and influence left, because their power influence was not as powerful and influential as they thought it was. Because the systematic racism was so strong, and they may have been the only one in that room at that table pushing it. So all right, Krystal, I know I talked through that soKC: good. Oh,
I would just like to say one thing. Um, as far as communications, I think a lot about communications through the lens of change management and crisis communication. And I think that all leaders need to be thinking about this as a crisis, just like you were thinking about it as a crisis during COVID coming, an arising in our community, I couldn’t stop I couldn’t get through my inbox because there were so many organizations talking about COVID. Yeah, I want to feel that sense. response from organizations in my inbox, and I’m not feeling it. I’m not overwhelmed by it. A lot of the folks I do follow obviously are in the space that I work in and diversity inclusion. So yes, of course I heard from them. But I mean, COVID-19 I didn’t even realize some people had me on their email list. I hadn’t heard from them in years. I was like, Ooh, this is great. This is helpful because I can unsubscribe. But the thing is, where where where’s this overwhelming emails coming from? For the crisis that we are currently in, which is disproportionate murder of black lives at the hands of police? That is what we are in the crisis of that we have been in the crisis for a long time, and protesters are basically making it so that we cannot look away. Thank you protesters. But just because protesters are making us not look away, doesn’t mean that we don’t just keep looking and then just say, Oh, that’s a shame. Take action. And silence. If you mess up, you know what’s worse than messing up is not taking responsibility for the mess up and saying, sorry, what’s worse than not messing up is being silent? Yeah. So when you mess up, it’s more important how you respond to the oops, than the oops. As long as you say, look, I tried, I’m willing to learn. I’m oops. That caused you harm. I’m going to educate myself and we’re going to do better. And that is in. In the tech space. We talk about Lean and Agile model. We build test learn, we fail forward, we’ll fail forward with this fail forward beat with being an anti racist. That’s my challenge. Michele: I love that. Okay, so we’re gonna wrap it up there. We will be back next week Thursday talking about more about being an ally ally ship. Definitely. Comment here with questions things she wants to know about being an ally. Get the free download on so you understand more of what we are saying when it comes to a Ll y. And it it’ll help you kind of figure out where you are, as far as being an ally, where you’re falling short, where you can be improved and where you’re doing well, right? Because we use like, okay, I met the a part that is great. Okay, and now you know what, where are you in the A and where can you go to the next l? Right? You want to drop from the A to Why do I hold up now, we appreciate that. We appreciate your enthusiasm. But let’s go through the process. And it is really important that you go through the process and you understand what you’re about to undertake not to scare you away. But it’s not going to be a linear like hey, you’re going to go straight up and do well. We wish it were that easy there. There are high points and low points. There will be days, it will feel like this is free. This isn’t as difficult and every day is gonna be hard as hell. And you’re wondering how you want to get through it. But as an ally, think about it, you had one bad day, think about the struggle, we as black people go through every single day, every single hour, every single moment. And that is something different when you’re in your home and you’re safe, or we aren’t really safe. We’ve seen that you can be shot through your window of your home by the police, and it’s justified. We thought it was a burglary and never had identified themselves as the police, assuming we get here through a closed window. Right. So it is you’re taking on something and we appreciate it, but we want you to go through the process and understand what that is. All right. So we will be back next week Thursday at 1pm. East Coast time, overheard that it’s 11. And that’s 11am Mountain Time. So go Join us. We love to have you and if you get the download we’ll also have this video available on positive hire.co. forward slash blog as well. Starting on Monday, everybody, take care. do what’s best for your mental, physical and emotional health. We have worked at it. That’s right.
Thank you. Bye, everybody.

That's why all of us need to be fighting to make our workplaces and to make our society at large, more racially just because we're all going to benefit from it.

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support

Michele: Hello, Hello, everybody. This is Michele Heyward, founder of the tech company positive hire. And I’m here today with another one of our summit speakers. I have Krystal Atha with me today, and we are going to have the opportunity to get to know her even better. Krystal, can you tell everybody a bit about yourself?KC: Absolutely. Thanks for having me on today. Well, I am an entrepreneur serial, I’m on my second one personally. And I’ve also worked with some other folks to help them launch their own. So I love entrepreneurship. I love organizations, and I like seeing and figuring out how they work. So I love nerding out with you a lot.Michele: Yes, that entrepreneur, the crazy hang around with the crazy. That’s what we say,
we find each other in the dark places. So Krystal, and I Krystal is coming on. And she is talking about harassment in the workplace during our summit. And this is something a lot of women and women of color, especially encounter and a lot of women of color, do not get the support they need in the workplace. So when Krystal and I were discussing what topic would be great and beneficial for her to share and bring to the community, we decided on harassment. I’m over here doing all sorts of other technical stuff. So yeah, remind me. But what’s really important is Chris listed isn’t a diversity, equity, inclusion space. And this is a very, very new space. For a lot of people. A lot of it didn’t exist 1012 years ago. So Krystal, how did you end up in this space?KC: First of all,you know, I’ve asked myself that same question. So I wrote down some notes. Because it’s a long answer, but it’s very logical to me now that I’ve done some reflection work. So I like to start with my why. And my why really is my personal values of social justice, liberation ethics. And because of that, I was drawn to international development, human rights law, international humanitarian law, I studied for a while I studied the Israel Palestine conflict and became a human rights reporter. So deep, deep inside of me, I just really feel passionate about social justice and making the world a better place in some way, shape, or form. So that is my big why of how I think I ended up here is that driving force, and so whenever people talk about diversity, equity and inclusion, there’s two main reasons or goals of D and I and I am firmly in the Justice case. Although I love that there’s a massive bonus of making your organization work better and and perform better through it. But my wife definitely comes from justice.Michele: So let’s take I’m gonna go a little bit further back. Okay, so you’re in college, what are you majoring in?KC: Good question, political science and sociology. I started with sociology. And then I thought, Okay, this is all great. But how do we make change, political science entered in and I thought, this is how I’m going to make change. So I worked on the hill. And I thought, all right, yes, this is how you could you know, lever of change really powerful. And it just wasn’t fulfilling. And I got burnt out a little bit. And so I thought, okay, there’s got to be a different way that I can approach this. So I went back to grad school, and I did the Peace Corps. And I thought, okay, where else can I fit in? That isn’t just on the hill and politics with a lot of bureaucracy, it was just so much red tape, it felt like molasses, making things happen. So that’s how I sort of started undergrad with some of that stuff. And then I used it and then I thought, okay, using my degrees and I don’t know if this is really, I don’t know if this is really what I want to keep doing. So I went back to grad school, and I did pee pee score to be like, Alright, how do I morph this into something that feels more like I’m having an impact or that I can feel balanced also.Michele: Let’s talk about the hill for a minute. So this is really interesting, because in start up, we can make a switch like you know what, that really didn’t work. Like we’re like, nobody’s open our emails. Nobody showing up for our LinkedIn live, right? We like we’re gonna go to face but like, we can make a change just like that. Yeah. So you started out in the hell is that sort of how you like molasses to speed of change just started.KC:So let’s, yeah,great connection. Michelle. You’re right. I think I went like from one extreme and just went to the other one.
So what what were you doing on the hill where you were you were trying, you were attempting or you made some change, because even a scratch, you know, you do something, it just may now just be changing now 12 years later,
planting the seed they have the tree you’ll never see underneath. Yeah, exactly. I kept trying to tell myself that and I still do to this day with some of the social justice work. I mean, there’s no escaping, there’s no magic place where you’re just gonna feel complete impact and like, things are just gonna magically happen. I haven’t found it. So if you have or if you know, someone, let me know in the comments. But um, for me, I think also just really young. So it was my first job out of college, I went to the University of Iowa, I worked for Iowa Congressman, it was a congress person that didn’t take any pac money. So I thought that was really great, you know, so that’s talking to my justice heart. And I just thought, okay, you know, this, this is a moderate, maybe we can bridge the, you know, the gap and talk to each other, and all of that stuff. And then I get there. And I think, oh, my goodness, this is, this is not what I realized what I thought it was, you know, I thought, Oh, this is a lever of change, we can make huge change. And at that point in time, I don’t want to date myself. But here we go. 2006, there was a huge wave, and it was a democratic wave. And so then they took over the house. And then, so it’s like, well, now you push forward this way. So I don’t know, I just can’t even get into the details. But all of all that I know is that it’s impermanent. And so you make two steps forward, and then it feels like three steps back, and then two steps forward, and then three steps back, and I wasn’t prepared for that at the time. And then I was a lowly entry level staffer, who was very excited to work with constituents. And yet to hear those phone calls every day and to want to make changes. And to know that it’s just like, only so much I can do. So I think that was sort of sort of some of the reality. They’re like, Okay, well, what else do I do?Michele: This is a debt. And you you bring up something, and I get a lot of college students who are like, I have this degree, and I have all of these options under under a degree like everybody thinks wish, you get this degree, this is the thing you’re going to is so many options. And I actually had this, somebody, like, I don’t know what I’m gonna do with it. And I said, everything. They say, What do you mean, I say, try everything until you find the thing that you really like doing. And you’re like, Hell, I got to get up and go to work, if that’s the time to go do something else. But keep trying that. And it’s not only for young people, because we’ve done it, and we’ve been in industry, and we’re still always making change and doing new things. So yeah, so I like that you like I went out like, this is not it. So you’re sitting there and you’re like, Okay, this, isn’t it? What do you do?KC: So I didn’t have to do much, because my congressmen lost their election for the first time in 30 years. So then I had to get a job. And I worked in the financial services industry, because I just needed to get something to pay my bills. And it was kind of a cool job, I got into technology on accident. Um, they were building a platform for online trading. This is 2008. And I was just thrown into user testing and user groups and advisory board building and getting feedback. And the whole lean model that I didn’t even know existed, I was just doing it. So that was kind of interesting. But working on Wall Street, I didn’t feel like I was really fulfilling my why of making the world a better place. It just wasn’t for me, it wasn’t a good fit. So that’s when I really was applying to grad school, applying to the Peace Corps and figuring out how do I fulfill my way of making this world better, and safer, and more fair, and more just and all of that. So that’s what happened after.Michele: Okay, so then you get into Peace Corps, but you’re here today, I’m so confused once. Yeah, once you make a change,KC: I make any change? Yes. So turns out, I’m starting to learn life lessons, um, and you make changes, but really, I think I’m not really a religious person. But I think about Mother Teresa, and she says, start at home. You know, someone asks, How do I how do we make change in this world, and it’s like, start at home. So it’s funny to say that with the Peace Corps, but really, it’s starting at home with yourself, and opening your own mind understanding intercultural dynamics, understanding that our culture isn’t the center of the universe, and I had gone to grad school, and I got my master’s in international administration, which is basically an MBA, but for the public sector through an international lens. So it was like MBA style, but we care about the fact that there’s intercultural things happening and international law and things like that. So that that sort of lens I was working from, and I thought, Okay, cool. I’m going to do this. I went To the Middle East, also, with my grad school program, I did human rights work. And I also did reporting in the West Bank and East Jerusalem on human rights abuses. And that was heavy stuff also. And it’s like, how do I make a change in Israel Palestine, I’m like, let me just pick these really difficult problems and go in and then get frustrated that I didn’t fix it as one human. Um, so yeah, that was sort of sort of the next iteration of things. So it was Peace Corps, it was journalism in the Middle East. And that drove me to start my own nonprofit. And so that was working in tech and using technology to keep journalists and human rights activists safe. So I was then diving into safety. So I was like, I don’t want to be the frontline anymore. I don’t want to be the journalist. It was really heavy on my heart to be reporting those things. It was really tough to be in the Peace Corps for two years and working on the ground. And I was like, tough meaning like, I didn’t know how to balance myself. I just my emotions are I was just feeling so much heaviness, so much weight. So I thought, Okay, let me help the helpers on the front line. Let me just step one more step back. And that’s when I said, Okay, I had this practice working in tech, I met a co founder, she had great ideas about using technology to help folks in these conflict zones. And I thought, yes, this is it, you’re speaking to me, this is the next thing I need to do, I got my degree, I know how to start a business and run it. And you have a great idea. Let’s do this, let’s change the world. And this is when I realized D, and I was totally missing from my organization. And this is when I went hard because I reflected and I thought, okay, my whole mission in my organization is to keep people safe. Human rights activists, journalists, then I put the mirror up, whenever there was a lot of issues in my organization, it was a small organization, but enough to start having some conflicts. And I wasn’t keeping my staff safe. And I didn’t. And that was a really hard truth, to just confront. And so my social justice, heart, wanting the best, having the best intentions, having great education, great experiences on the ground starting organizations with the Peace Corps working with organizations abroad. And yet, what happened, that problem got me, they just got me so good. And so I started going deep. And I started going hard with this. I’m like, why did why? Why can I keep my own people safe when my whole mission of the organization is to keep folks safe? So that was really the turning point.Michele: So now you’ve exited that startup. And you realize that DNI is a part of every organization from the ground up. And reflecting on what you didn’t do, right? reflecting growing through what you’ve seen out in the world. Where are you today? KC: Good question. So while I was running my organization, helping folks be safe in conflict zones, and also not worrying about if my own personal staff of my organization is safe. Guess what I was doing on the side, Michelle, I was teaching workshops on how to respond to public harassment and assault, how to make safe how to create safe spaces in our community. So once again, looking outward, trying to make safe spaces, still not looking inward. And now where I am today is I’m transitioning, four years of working with an organization in DC teaching workshops on how to create safer spaces in our community collectively, into how do we create safer spaces in the workplace collectively. I also talk about policies and procedures. Don’t get me wrong, I still studied international humanitarian law, I love laws, I love thinking about processes and systems that can really help keep us safe. But I also strongly believe in the power of a collective group of people being able to create a safe space or a safer space for everyone. So that’s why I do both of these and I’m transitioning it into the workplace because it was my blind spot honestly. big heart. Big blind spot still. Michele: Yes. So I love your how you went through your journey of explaining this I want it to always make the world a better place. I that’s those are my words. And having the and I love when we have fresh, refreshing young, and we have these great ideas and like wait, I didn’t know this is really high work. But why can’t we do it even to change the smallest thing? It feels like you have to be Atlas and half the world on your shoulders to make it happen. Went through your life thus far, figuring out what is it that Krystal can actually do to come full circle, like I have to work on me. And my, it’s internal to organizations in which I build and create and help other leaders in organizations do the same. So I, I commend you, because a lot of people will have not do the internal work, they will not look at what they did wrong in order to make changes, to have a better future, especially when it comes to their, their teams, their employees, and really improving the culture in our organization. So I applaud you for their cell processes. I’m a process person, I love practices, they’re really helpful laws, it depends on them,KC: I needed to meet us or like baseline bare minimum, when in certain aspects, I think we can and should and have the ethical responsibility to do way more above and beyond that. So that’s, that’s the point of view I come in from. So if that’s sort of how you feel as an entrepreneur, or as a leader in your organization, I would love to talk to you work with you collaborate, because that is that’s where we’re going now. We can’t just lean on laws. I mean, we know how slow it is, we know how much gridlock there is, you know, we got to have a multi prong approach. You know, let’s keep working on that line. But let’s also try in our spheres of influence, you know, what can we what can we do,Michele: and technology is moving faster than laws can keep up? Absolutely. And that that, in turn, we’re looking at the ethics and morals of individual people or the lack thereof, when we build those inside of our businesses, that really then helps us create safer workplaces. And I say this because everybody assumes people around that. And I don’t just mean like their friends, but their neighbors or people they went to school with were raised the same way as me that is obviously not true. So it is really important that you set those expectations within your organization from day one, you also exhibit it and practice it in your organization. So people who do not who appreciate it, and really understand like, you know what, I’ve never felt this before. I’ve never felt safe. I’ve never felt I belonged in organization really have that. And I love the work that you do. And that’s why we partner up on so many D and I projects. Okay. So just gone full circle, because we I wanted everybody to get to know the speakers for next week’s summit, we kick off Sunday night at 7pm. Krystal  is our last speaker, she is on a Friday. And I know y’all did not want to talk about harassment in the workplace. Nobody wants to talk about it, period. But it happens. And usually people want to talk about it after this happened. Yeah. And what we are doing, or Krystal is doing rather is talking about it. Hopefully before it’s happened to you, or maybe it has happened to you, and tactics and methodologies you can use in the workplace to protect yourself. Yep, to address the issue. Um, because honestly, in my just just my limited experience, the harasser is no within that organization and is protected in the organization. And people who complain, especially women are removed from the organization. So we want to give tactics that will protect and support women of color, especially. Because they’re often attacked more especially on social and less and less often. less likely, they’re less likely to be believed. So I’ll put it I’ll put it that way. So Krystal, can you give like, I don’t know, 10 words about what she’ll be talking about on on Friday, next week?KC: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we’re gonna be talking about microaggressions. We’re going to be talking about harassment. We’re going to talk about how to be an active bystander. So we’re going to be talking about very specific strategies. And I’m going to give you scripts, I’m going to show you some examples. And we’re going to talk about what you can do and not just strategies that’s like one size fits all. I’m going to show you a bunch of them. We’re going to talk about them. And then you can choose the one that works best for you or more than one. And it’s gonna be great. We’re gonna have stuff you can walk away with. It is super empowering. The first time I took this workshop was from this organization that I ended up working with in DC because it was so powerful. I was the the definitely the person that was like, oh, getting to dinner meeting up with my friends. It’s like you won’t believe that what just was said to me on the phone We hear you know, like, I, it’s fine, to complain to vent to be upset, absolutely 100%. But I’m also like, how do I make this? How do I change this, I don’t want to experience this anymore. And so I think even in the workplace, I had a terrible experience in the workplace recently, and I thought, Oh, my gosh, I was stunned. And I hadn’t practiced these strategies in a while. And I thought, Oh, my gosh, I hadn’t started doing converting the strategies into workplace strategies or creating workplace strategies. So I thought, Oh, my gosh, she has so much opportunity, but we got to practice it, we got to know it when it happens. You know, we can fight flight or freeze, we’re gonna talk about some of that stuff. So a lot of good things and some self care. So when we feel these microaggressions, sometimes we judge ourselves, or sometimes we talk ourselves out of it, or whatever the case may be, you know, that just builds up knots inside of us. And we’re just re harming ourselves. So we’re gonna talk about all sorts of stuff. I hope you all come and join us and take away some strategies, and then you can create safer spaces in your organization. Even if you are not able to make policy changes, you can still make a huge difference.Michele: I absolutely agree. So we have one comment. From Tiffany, thanks, we’re talking about it. We know it’s happened yet, we absolutely do. And it continues to happen over and over again. What I would like to say Krystal gives us so much value, every single time she comes on into our community here at positive hire, be sure to join her on Friday, you want to go to bi T dot L y, or slash w OC, stem summit 2022. summit is free if you join live. And if you watch the 24 hour replay, we do this summit twice a year, first time in a winter in February, which coincides with engineers week, if you’re trying to figure out if we’re trying to figure out when we’re gonna do it again. And then we do it in November, and in November, it coincides with national stem day. So if you keep those two things in mind, you can generally kind of figure out when we’re gonna do this. They’re really close together. I know this. But it’s for a reason, I promise you and those are primary reasons. Maybe one day we’ll change it. The other part is a lot of women and a lot of conferences do not occur in February, and in November. So I’m not competing with a lot of other conferences I did last year, November sided Women Engineers national convention was to say weak, but it’s going to happen, but a lot of times we don’t have as many people traveling. So everybody, thank you, Krystal, I look you know, I always look forward to talking about the topics nobody else really wants to address, and really providing help. nobody really wants to provide the help, the tactics, the methodologies to strategies the way you do and I really do appreciate the work you do.KC: You’re welcome. I’m excited. Can’t wait for next Friday,either.Michele: Alright, everybody, I will be back tomorrow at 12pm Eastern Time to reintroduce myself to some and introduce myself to others. I will be the last speaker you have me this week before we kick the summit off at 7pm East Coast time every night. We will go live at 7pm starting on February 16. I know it’s Valentine’s Day weekend, but if they didn’t love you before this weekend, um, I’m sorry, it’s just not good. And we will in next week, Friday, February 21. With Krystal Atha and talking about harassment in the workplace. everybody. Have a great day and I’ll talk to you later. Bye

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support

*This was an interview to introduce one of our speakers for the Women of Color in STEM summit in Feb 2020*Learn how to position yourself and your brand to get hired for jobs which are not posted.In this episode, I talk with Tamara McLemore who quickly worked up to a PM role in IT through finding the right support.

• How mentors accelerate growth and creates new opportunities
• Leaning into personal power to build confidence and skills along the way
• Why it's important to have a culture that supports you
• From Tamara's coaching, most women have never asked for a raise, or negotiated additional benefits
• It's OK to move to different industries as long as you know what you bring to the table
• Understanding your net worth and formulating it into words to connect with your network on LinkedIn

Purchase Tamara's training along with other virtual summit training sessions at: https://summit20.womenofcolorinstem.com/speakers/tamara-mclemore/


Connect with Tamara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaramclemorepmp

How mentors accelerate growth and creates new opportunities

Leaning into personal power to build confidence and skills along the way

Why it's important to have a culture that supports you

From Tamara's coaching, most women have never asked for a raise, or negotiated additional benefits

It's OK to move to different industries as long as you know what you bring to the table

Understanding your net worth and formulating it into words to connect with your network on LinkedIn

---

Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/positivehireco/support

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support

---

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/positivehireco/support