In this first installment, Matt and Tony nominee Tom Pecinka (Stereophonic) unpack one of Broadway’s most endlessly reinvented—and debated—musicals: Cabaret. From its roots as a radical concept musical to the ever-evolving interpretations of the Emcee and Sally Bowles, this episode explores why Cabaret refuses to sit still—and why that’s exactly the point.

Guest IntroductionTom Pecinka is a Tony–nominated actor best known for his acclaimed turn in Stereophonic, with additional stage credits spanning theater, film and TV. A thoughtful theater brain with a deep appreciation for gritty material, Tom brings an actor’s perspective to Cabaret—especially when it comes to performance style, character psychology, and what makes a revival feel urgent (or not).

Timestamps05:00 – Experiencing the latest revival: immersion, spectacle, and fatigue14:30 – Plot overview and historical context of Weimar Berlin18:45 – What is a “concept musical,” and why Cabaret changed everything27:45 – Kander & Ebb, Hal Prince, and writing the score with Liza Minnelli in mind36:30 – The Emcee as symbol: Nazi threat, victim, puppet, provocateur41:00 – The Sam Mendes revolution and the rise of immersive Cabaret47:00 – The impossible role of Sally Bowles (talented? delusional? both?)53:30 – “Cabaret” (the song): Elsie, denial, and choosing the wrong moral59:30 – Queerness, Cliff Bradshaw, and playing house in a collapsing world1:06:00 – Revivals, retreads, and whether Cabaret can reinvent itself again

Key people mentioned

John Kander & Fred Ebb (composers/lyricists)

Joe Masteroff (book writer)

Hal Prince (original director/producer)

Christopher Isherwood (source material)

Jill Haworth (original Broadway Sally Bowles)

Joel Grey (original Emcee)

Liza Minnelli (film Sally Bowles)

Bob Fosse (film director/choreographer)

Alan Cumming (Sam Mendes revival Emcee)

Natasha Richardson, Michelle Williams, Emma Stone, Jessie Buckley, Gayle Rankin (notable Sally Bowles)

Eddie Redmayne (recent Emcee)

Sam Mendes & Rob Marshall (1998 revival directors)

Listener Discussion Questions

Do you prefer a Sally Bowles who is secretly talented or openly unraveling—and why?

Has Cabaret reached the limit of reinvention, or is there still a version we haven’t seen yet?

Should revivals aim to shock audiences anew, or simply let great material speak for itself?

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