Here at Deep Green, we often shine a spotlight on traditional building materials that have fallen out of favor for a variety of reasons—but that we believe deserve reconsideration by today’s architects and designers, especially those concerned about the environmental and social impacts of their projects.

Slate—a gray, flaky signifier of 19th-century luxury—for example, is one that we think deserves a second look. Before the 1930s, when asphalt composite shingles became the most common roofing material in North America, the middle class was rushing to build Victorian-style homes or renovate their Georgian and Colonial-style mansions with slate roofs.

And there was a reason. Slate was easy to maintain, elegant in color, and excellent in thermal performance. Many beautiful buildings around the world still prove its durability, with roofs that have lasted hundreds of years. No wonder there was a slate boom in the 19th century—not only in North America but in many other parts of the world where slate roofs have been constructed for thousands of years.

In this episode of Deep Green, created in partnership with CUPACLAD, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with Drew Ford, USA regional sales manager for CUPACLAD, one of the world’s leading slate providers. Listen in to learn what makes slate a great choice today and what new possibilities have opened up for this ancient material.

Resources

CUPACLAD Sustainability

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Tiles are among the most enduring building materials. Glazed brick tiles have been discovered in archaeological sites and in ancient and medieval buildings around the world. The first glazed porcelain tiles, which date back to 15th-century China, are still around today. And yet, when one thinks of sustainable building products, tile might not be the first to come to mind.

More often than not, today’s building industry—with its culture of constructing and demolishing—fails to take advantage of tile’s inherent sustainability. In today’s context, we require that building materials have the lowest possible carbon footprint and be easily reused or recycled. So, how can tile—with its thousands of years of history—fit into today’s frameworks? And how can we build better with this time-tested material in North America?

In this episode of Deep Green, created in partnership with AHF and Crossville, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with Noah Chitty, Vice President of Sustainability and Technical Services for AHF and Crossville. Part of the AHF family of brands, Crossville has made great strides in optimizing tile manufacturing by innovating with new technologies and providing transparent information to the design community—efforts Chitty has helped drive. Listen to the episode to learn how this ancient material is being reimagined for a more sustainable future.

Resources

Crossville Sustainability

Carbon Neutral Tile by Crossville

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In the 1960s, mathematician Benoît Mandelbrot began exploring a concept he initially called self-similarity—geometric forms whose parts resemble the whole. A simple example is a straight line: any segment of it is also a straight line.

But this kind of geometry also appears in nature, like in the head of Romanesco broccoli. Each floret forms a spiral that mirrors the spiral arrangement of the florets on the entire head.

In 1975, Mandelbrot named this phenomenon a fractal. It turns out fractals are everywhere in nature: the way rivers branch into tributaries, or how a tree trunk grows branches, which then grow twigs.

More recently, researchers have suggested that human brains recognize these fractal patterns—sometimes subconsciously—and because we associate them with nature, seeing fractals can evoke similar calming effects as being in a natural environment.

So, why discuss fractals on a podcast about sustainable architecture and design? Because fractals are common in pre-modern architecture—found in the ornaments of Gothic cathedrals and the niches of medieval mosques—and today, many designers apply fractal principles to objects and materials, creating products that evoke the same sense of well-being as natural environments.

In this episode of Deep Green, created in partnership with Momentum and recorded live from NeoCon 2025, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with Dr. Richard Taylor, whose research underpins our understanding of fractal patterns’ impact, and Anastasija and Martin Lesjak of 13&9, who apply this research in their designs—including a new wallcovering collection for Momentum called Renaturation.

Resources

Momentum Renaturation Collection

13&9 Design

Dr. Richard Taylor’s Research

This episode was produced in partnership with Momentum and recorded live in the NeoCon Podcast Lounge Powered by SURROUND. Thank you to our Lounge sponsor, Material Bank, and product partners: HÅG, Stylex, KI Wall, and Turf.

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When we think of all the ways we could be designing better buildings—especially commercial buildings like office towers or education spaces—there’s one lever that people still don’t pay enough attention to: furniture.

Some numbers for context—about 8 million tons of office furniture end up in U.S. landfills every year. And for a standard office renovation, furniture and furnishings account for about half of the space’s carbon footprint.

So yes, furniture can help prevent harm in the world. It can help us make better buildings. But here’s the exciting part: furniture can also be a tool for doing a whole lot of good.

We touch and interact with furniture every day. Well-designed furniture can make a big difference to our health and well-being. It also takes skill and craft to produce, which means furniture can uplift and empower communities and involve them in finding solutions for people and the planet.

In this episode of Deep Green, created in partnership with Allsteel and recorded live from NeoCon 2025, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with two guests who’ve been helping organizations make real impact through their furniture and architectural product selections: Lisa Brunie-McDermott, Director of Corporate Social Responsibility at HNI Corp., and Madison Gentry, Architectural Product Sales Enablement Manager at Allsteel. Listen in as they discuss how using healthy, beautiful materials in furniture and furnishings can have a multiplier effect on our buildings.

Resources:

“How the Furniture Industry Is Stepping Up on Circularity”

Allsteel Sustainability

HNI Corporate Sustainability

This episode was produced in partnership with Allsteel and recorded live in the NeoCon Podcast Lounge Powered by SURROUND. Thank you to our Lounge sponsor, Material Bank, and product partners: HÅG, Stylex, KI Wall, and Turf.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Francisco Brown, senior editor and engagement manager at Metropolis Magazine, interviews Steve Kooy, Technical Director of Health and Sustainability at BIFMA, live from the NeoCon Podcast Lounge. They discuss BIFMA's longstanding support for the furniture manufacturing industry, the evolution of sustainability certifications, and the importance of industry standards now more than ever.

Learn more about LEVEL: level.bifma.org

This episode was produced in partnership with BIFMA and recorded live in the NeoCon Podcast Lounge Powered by SURROUND, sponsored by Material Bank, and in partnership with HÅG, Stylex, KI Wall, and Turf.

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Polyvinyl chloride—better known as PVC or vinyl—is one of the most ubiquitous plastics in our lives. You’ll find it everywhere: pipes, siding, wiring, flooring, upholstery, wall coverings, and even old-school vinyl records. Sixty-one percent of all PVC produced globally is used in buildings and construction. It’s more fire-retardant than any other common plastic, and with the addition of plasticizers, it can be made as flexible as fabric or as rigid as wood.

In certain building types—like hospitals, hotels, and schools—PVC products are widely used because they’re durable, easy to maintain, and able to carry patterns and color. But many sustainability experts and design teams are urging the industry to reduce or avoid PVC where possible. When PVC isn’t responsibly manufactured or disposed of, it can expose workers and nearby communities to harmful dioxins. Poorly regulated PVC can also contain other chemicals of concern, such as heavy metals. For these reasons, the International Living Future Institute keeps PVC on its Red List of materials to avoid.

So what’s the path forward? Should we focus on making PVC as safe and clean as possible—or invest in finding alternative materials that offer the same performance benefits?

In this episode of Deep Green, created with our partner Mannington Commercial, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with three experts offering distinct perspectives: Shane Totten, vice president of sustainability at Mannington Commercial, which produces both certified, transparent PVC flooring and non-PVC resilient flooring options; David Briefel, sustainability director and principal at Gensler, and co-creator of the Gensler Product Sustainability Standards—a set of material requirements for the firm’s projects; and Annzie Barfield, interior design specialist at LaBella Associates, who works on education, healthcare, and senior living spaces where PVC products are often the default for flooring and wall protection.

Together, they unpack the complexities—and possibilities—of designing with (or without) PVC.

This season of Deep Green is produced in partnership with Mannington Commercial.

Resources:

“What Can We Do About PVC?” (METROPOLIS Nov/Dec Issue 2023)

The Living Building Challenge (LBC) Red List

Gensler Product Sustainability (GPS) Standards

Mannington Mills Transparency

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Buildings account for 40 percent of global carbon emissions. The construction industry generates nearly a third of all waste in our cities and built environments. The buildings we live and work in influence 11 of the 23 social determinants of health—factors that shape our well-being. And the construction sector is also the second most at risk for labor exploitation and modern-day slavery. We get a lot wrong when we make buildings, and we've spent the last three decades trying to fix that. But what if we shifted our focus—not just doing less bad, but doing more good? That’s the promise of regenerative design: the idea that buildings can help nature regenerate, not just minimize damage.

In this episode of Deep Green, host Avi Rajagopal sits down with one of the pioneers of regenerative design, Jason McLennan, chief sustainability officer at Perkins&Will. McLennan is the mind behind transformative frameworks like the Living Building Challenge, the WELL Standard, and the Living Product Challenge, as well as the Declare, Just, and Net Zero certifications. His work has earned him prestigious honors including the Buckminster Fuller Prize, the ENR Award of Excellence, and an Ashoka Fellowship.

If anyone can help us see the big picture of sustainability in architecture, it’s Jason McLennan. Tune in for a conversation about the future of buildings, design, and how we can create a world where architecture heals rather than harms.

This season of Deep Green is produced in partnership with Mannington Commercial.

Resources

The Living Building Challenge

The International Living Future Institute

The WELL Building Standard

The Living Product Challenge

Perkins&Will Sustainability

Declare Label Program

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We're sharing a special episode of architecture 5 10 20, a podcast from FXCollaborative. In this episode, you'll hear Avi Rajagopal with Guy Geier discussing connections between sustainability and design.

You can find more episodes of architecture 5 10 20 at surroundpodcasts.com.

Welcome back to architecture 5 10 20! I’m your host, Guy Geier, Managing Partner of FXCollaborative Architects in New York. My guests for this podcast are pioneers and visionaries shaping the future of the built environment across various disciplines. Join me in exploring their remarkable journeys, discovering how they reach their current heights, and envisioning what lies ahead in the next 5, 10, and 20 years.

Join me for this special episode as I have a great conversation with Avi Rajagopal, editor-in-chief of Metropolis magazine and host of the Deep Green podcast, to discuss connections between sustainability and design. Recorded at FX Collaborative’s Brooklyn office during Green April, our conversation touches upon how sustainability has evolved in the built environment and how media plays an important part in pushing the conversation forward.

Avi, whose career has been shaped by his commitment to sustainable design, shares his journey from product design to leading sustainability projects at Metropolis, and we talk about some of the challenges facing the architecture and design industries such as the carbon emissions tied to interior design and the importance of thinking about materials as long-term investments. Avi provides some insights into how we can shift our mindset to reduce waste and adopt a more circular approach to design.

Avi also goes into how design practices differ across sectors, from corporate offices to healthcare facilities, and how we can rethink how buildings change over time. We discuss the role of reuse in sustainability and the shifts that we are going to need to actually elevate this practice. Focusing on practical and actionable steps, we consider how designers can model circularity, from reusing materials to rethinking aesthetic choices. Avi even answers a few questions from a few of my FXCollaborative colleagues here in the studio with me!

This episode of the show is full of forward-thinking ideas on how we can design better, more sustainable spaces, so whether you are an architect, a designer, and/or a sustainability advocate, this conversation offers valuable insights from Avi that will surely challenge and inspire!

Time stamps:

[02:34] - Avi reflects on how his interest in sustainability developed over time, from design studies to Metropolis' focus on it.

[05:59] - The media connects architecture to the public, advancing professional conversations around sustainability.

[08:08] - Avi reveals that Metropolis has explored how interior design contributes to carbon emissions.

[11:03] - Focusing on building life-cycle emissions led to creating the Climate Toolkit for Interior Design to reduce waste.

[13:33] - Proposals for circularity in design have led to ideas for new professions and assessing the quality of reused materials.

[15:03] - Avi argues that avoiding new materials is the best way to reduce rising carbon emissions.

[17:54] - Aesthetics and sustainability are not inherently linked, and global practices embrace broader, more sustainable design values.

[20:29] - Avi explains how different building types age uniquely, which requires customized strategies and approaches.

[22:58] - As an optimist, Avi points out how retrofits, natural materials, and holistic thinking suggest a shift in sustainable practices.

[25:04] - FXCollaborative’s work highlights how urban design increasingly considers the impact on all life on Earth, not just humans.

[27:21] - Adaptive reuse, Avi asserts, should prioritize flexibility and longevity, not just destroying and rebuilding existing structures.

[30:51] - Can reuse alone satisfy future infrastructure and housing needs?

[31:53] - It's important for new construction to be assessed for whether it serves the public good.

[34:39] - Rethinking building use and shared responsibility is important for maximizing environmental and social value.

[37:20] - FXCollaborative draws ongoing inspiration from Avi's vision for a circular, sustainable architectural future!

Links / Resources:

Guy Geier

Instagram | Twitter

Avinash Rajagopal on Instagram

Metropolis

Climate Toolkit for Interior Design

Deep Green

Ezra Klein - Abundance

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What makes one product more sustainable than another? It’s a question that anyone concerned with their impact on the planet must confront. How do we choose the right couch, coffee machine, flooring, tiles, or curtain wall system—so that we’re doing the most good for both people and the environment?

That’s the question Lisa Gralnek has been working to answer.

Gralnek is the U.S. Managing Director and Global Head of Sustainability and Impact at the iF Design Awards—one of the largest and most prestigious design award programs in the world. This year, 131 jurors evaluated nearly 11,000 entries from 66 countries, judging everything from appliances to automobiles, furnishings to buildings.

For the first time, sustainability accounted for 20 percent of the score for every submission. So how does an international awards program assess sustainability across such diverse design disciplines, regions, and product categories?

Listen to this episode of Deep Green, as METROPOLIS editor in chief Avi Rajagopal sits down with Gralnek to discuss how the iF Design Awards are tackling this challenge.

This season of Deep Green is produced in partnership with Mannington Commercial.

Resources

iF DESIGN AWARDS

Sustainability and the iF DESIGN AWARDS

iF Trend Report 2025

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If there’s one defining trend in American architecture over the last decade, it’s the rediscovery of wood as a construction material. Mass timber buildings—made from large wooden panels, columns, and beams—are rising across North America, with developers racing to construct the tallest wooden tower. A new contender, the 32-story Edison in Milwaukee, just broke ground and is set to claim the title of the tallest mass timber building in the Western Hemisphere.

But why are American developers, architects, and builders all timberstruck? There are the carbon emissions—wood pulls down carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as trees grow, so these buildings are a tool in the fight against climate change. Plus, they are quick to construct and can be cheaper to build. So should we start building everything out of wood?

In this episode of Deep Green, METROPOLIS editor in chief Avi Rajagopal speaks with two experts to unpack the potential of mass timber. First, Columbia University professor and author Lindsey Wikstrom discusses how architecture and construction need to evolve to fully embrace timber-based design. Then, DLR Group principal Stephen Cavanaugh shares insights from his extensive experience designing over three million square feet of mass timber buildings, as part of the largest collection of mass timber buildings in North America.

Join us as we dive deep into the thinking behind and the practice of mass timber architecture.

This season of Deep Green is produced in partnership with Mannington Commercial.

Resources:

Designing the Forest and other Mass Timber Futures

Finding a Future for Mass Timber in Hospitality

DLR Group: Hines T3 Partnership

Episode art: Photo by Creative Sources Photography/Rion Rizzo, courtesy DLR Group

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