Defector Media, the sports and culture publication launched four years ago by former Deadspin writers, is an example of the mixed picture for the future of the media business. On the plus side, it is a profitable, employee-owned publication with 42,500 paying subscribers supporting a $4.6 million business. At the same time, the company saw revenue growth drop to 2.2% from 18% last year and 16% in 2022.

Defector's Jasper Wang joined me to discuss Defector’s plans to expand its ad revenue, the inevitable challenges of fast decisionmaking in an employee-owned business, the “lean stack” approach of outsourcing as many publishing and corporate functions as possible, and the growth of its Normal Gossip podcast and diversification of Defector’s audience.