We promote the power of travel—but are we actually taking it ourselves? In this episode, Jennifer Walker from Visit Dallas challenges the tourism industry to practice what it preaches. With burnout on the rise and vacation days left unused, this candid conversation explores whether DMOs are setting the right example when it comes to rest, recovery, and experiencing their own destinations like a visitor.

From mandated time off and immersive staff experiences to infinite PTO and internal culture shifts, Stuart, Adam, and Jennifer dive deep into what it really means to walk the walk in destination marketing—and why it might be time to make vacation not just encouraged, but expected.

What You’ll Learn:

 • Why many tourism professionals struggle to take (or fully unplug during) vacation

 • Examples of organizations redefining vacation culture, from Visit Florida to Meet Minneapolis

 • The pros and cons of unlimited PTO—and how it actually plays out in practice

 • How internal culture impacts external credibility

 • Why every DMO should revisit its policies around travel, time off, and team well-being

Featured Quote:

“If we’re not going to be the advocates for travel, who is?” – Jennifer Walker

Shoutouts:

Jennifer also shares highlights from Visit Dallas’ “Maverick Can-Do Spirit” rebrand and how rolling it out locally first is fueling community-wide adoption.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, we’re joined by returning guest Caleb Sullivan and first-time guest Tyler Ford, an outsider from the automotive world who just might have the fresh perspective the tourism industry needs.

The conversation kicks off with a lively debate about Las Vegas’s new “Five Days of Fabulous” campaign—is it a smart earned media play or a short-sighted brand devaluation? But the real shift happens when Tyler introduces a bold idea: What if DMOs started thinking like supply chain managers?

Drawing lessons from the automotive industry, Caleb and Tyler challenge the traditional marketing funnel and offer a new lens for thinking about the visitor journey—one built on continuous improvement, systemic thinking, and the idea that every touchpoint in the destination contributes to the final “product.”

We cover everything from earned media vs. fire sales, stakeholder pressure, and brand value, to the concept of marginal gains and the need for more rigor and process in tourism. Whether you’re tired of funnel thinking or looking for ways to operationalize destination management, this episode delivers a compelling new paradigm.

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Topics Include:

 • Las Vegas’s “Fabulous” campaign: brand builder or brand buster?

 • What destination marketers can learn from automotive supply chains

 • Why “the funnel” fails modern tourism

 • Applying “The 5 Whys” and root-cause analysis to tourism challenges

 • How DMOs can expand their role beyond marketing to shaping the product

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with marketing strategist John Gardner to unpack a bold new framework for modern marketers: The Four I’s of Marketing — Intelligence, Individualization, Integration, and Inspiration. As traditional approaches like the Four P’s (Product, Price, Place, Promotion) lose relevance, this conversation explores how DMOs can better serve visitors and stakeholders in an AI-powered, experience-driven world.

But first, in Stu’s News, Stuart shares a jaw-dropping story about AI outperforming humans in hurricane forecasting. As Myrtle Beach prepared for Hurricane Imelda, Google’s DeepMind model predicted the storm’s unusual turn days before traditional models caught up. It’s a clear sign of how AI is reshaping decision-making — and a hint at what’s coming for marketers, too.

Referenced in Stu’s News:

 • Michael Lowry’s Substack: New AI Model Shines During Hurricane

https://michaelrlowry.substack.com/p/new-ai-model-shines-during-hurricane

 • Tweet from @WeatherProf: “This is one of the most stunning hurricane model forecasts I’ve ever seen.”

https://x.com/WeatherProf/status/1972646601718935778

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What You’ll Learn:

 • Why the Four P’s may no longer cut it in today’s marketing landscape

 • How the Four I’s provide a framework for navigating disruption

 • The challenge (and opportunity) of individualization in the DMO world

 • What DMOs can learn from brands like Chick-fil-A and Dollywood

 • How to adapt your marketing team and strategy for an AI-driven future

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Key Takeaways:

 • AI is already outperforming humans in high-stakes areas — marketing is next.

 • DMOs must go deeper into product and experience, not just promotion.

 • Individualization is hard but essential — and the tech is catching up fast.

 • Marketing teams must become AI-enabled generalists, not siloed specialists.

 • You don’t need all the answers to get started — move forward now.

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Call to Action:

If this episode challenged or inspired you, subscribe, share, and leave a review — and don’t forget to weigh in:

Which Star Wars movie really is the best — Empire or Return of the Jedi? (Hint: Stuart has strong opinions.)

It’s the 50th episode of Destination Discourse, and Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker mark the milestone by taking a reflective walk through their biggest learnings and shifts in perspective since launching the show. In a heartfelt, humorous, and occasionally roast-filled conversation, they unpack how their thinking has evolved on three major fronts: the role of paid vs. owned media, the importance of measuring what truly matters, and how they now view the role of a DMO in the community.

Along the way, they revisit some of their favorite guest moments—from Zeke Coleman’s red-pill data analogy to Will Seccombe’s cautionary tale about risk—and talk about how those insights have changed them as professionals. Adam surprises Stuart with a tribute to his recent Content Marketer of the Year award, and both hosts get vulnerable about their professional growth, podcast therapy moments, and the impact of building this community.

Whether you’ve been listening since Episode 1 or you’re just discovering the show, this milestone episode captures exactly what makes Destination Discourse so unique: smart, unfiltered conversations about the real work of destination leadership.

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🔑 Key Takeaways / Learning Objectives:

 • Discover how Stuart’s views on paid, earned, and owned media have shifted—and why he’s no longer so bullish on owned media alone.

 • Understand the deeper KPI conversation, including why community sentiment and team impact may matter more than traditional vanity metrics.

 • Hear how both hosts’ views on the role of a DMO have evolved—from marketers to strategic community collaborators.

 • Revisit favorite past episodes and the moments that changed their thinking—from data debates to leadership gold.

 • Reflect on the human side of leadership, risk-taking, and resilience—plus how podcasting itself can be a growth tool.

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💬 Notable Quotes:

“The only way we fail is if we give up.” – Stuart

“Paid media is the vehicle for attention, but trust comes from owned storytelling.” – Adam

“I don’t think we’re just marketers anymore—we’re conveners, collaborators, and catalysts.” – Stuart

“This show has 10x’d my learning rate. I finally get what DMOs go through.” – Adam

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📝 Additional Notes:

 • This is one of the most personal and reflective episodes yet—equal parts roast, recap, and real talk.

 • Includes a surprise segment where Adam flips the script and honors Stuart’s Content Marketer of the Year award.

 • A great primer episode for new listeners to understand the show’s mission—and for loyal fans to see how far it’s come.

 • Encouragement for listeners to suggest topics, share feedback, and even come on the show.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with Joe Heller, CMO of Discover Philadelphia, to tackle one of the biggest challenges facing DMOs today: how to break through the sea of sameness in meetings and conventions marketing.

The conversation explores why traditional advertising often falls flat in the B2B space and how destinations can shift toward disruptive promotions and attention-grabbing tactics that make a lasting impression on meeting planners and attendees alike.

Joe shares how Philadelphia approaches meetings and conventions with creative strategies—from airport takeovers to cheesesteak giveaways—and how DMOs can borrow lessons from SaaS companies to nurture leads and build stronger planner relationships. Stuart and Adam add their own experiences, from Myrtle Beach’s pickleball tournaments at trade shows to the power of AI tools that personalize outreach at scale.

Key takeaways include:

If you’ve ever wondered how to make your destination stand out in the competitive meetings market, this episode offers practical ideas, candid examples, and fresh ways to rethink B2B marketing.

CTA: Enjoying the show? Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with a colleague. It helps us keep pushing the industry forward.

This week’s episode goes deep into one of the most complex and often misunderstood conversations around artificial intelligence: its environmental impact. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by returning guest C.A. Clark, who first appeared back in Episode 7 to talk about AI ethics. This time, the three pick up a conversation that started off-mic and turned into one of the most challenging, thought-provoking discussions we’ve had on the show.

Before diving into the main topic, we kick off with Stu’s News and highlight Brand USA’s new “America the Beautiful” campaign website, built in collaboration with Mindtrip and Miles Partnership. The site uses conversational AI to blend search, social, and interactivity, pointing toward a future where destination websites become more dynamic, personalized, and conversational. We explore how this model could influence the way DMOs think about their digital ecosystems moving forward.

From there, the focus shifts to the heart of the episode: AI’s environmental footprint. This issue has generated headlines, hesitation, and heated debate—but also a lot of confusion. Together, we dig into:

 • Context and comparisons – Why asking about AI’s carbon emissions without comparing them to activities like streaming Netflix, scrolling TikTok, or eating a hamburger can be misleading.

 • Scale vs. individual use – A single AI prompt may have the impact of a few seconds of TV, yet the aggregate demand across millions of users raises larger questions about infrastructure and power.

 • Efficiency gains – Google’s latest research shows AI models becoming 33 times more energy efficient and 44 times lower in carbon footprint in just a year, underscoring how fast improvements are happening.

 • Industry focus – Why some boards and organizations risk becoming distracted by environmental arguments, potentially at the expense of preparing for seismic shifts in consumer behavior driven by AI.

 • The bigger picture – How AI might not only consume energy but also help us optimize industries, reduce waste, and solve environmental challenges we’ve struggled to tackle for decades.

Throughout the conversation, the three emphasize intellectual honesty over ideology. They call out the dangers of apathy, the risks of letting “AI fatigue” stall progress, and the need for DMOs to move beyond fear or excuses. Whether you’re an AI skeptic or already experimenting with it daily, this episode challenges you to think more deeply about the trade-offs, realities, and opportunities ahead.

Key Takeaways:

 • AI is far from carbon-neutral, but its impact per use is smaller than many fear—and shrinking fast.

 • Environmental comparisons matter: a hamburger, a flight, or a Netflix binge has exponentially higher impact than a ChatGPT prompt.

 • The conversation should shift from fear to strategy: how will AI reshape consumer expectations, and what must DMOs do now to stay relevant?

 • Experimentation is no longer optional—leaders who avoid AI risk falling behind as the pace of change accelerates.

Why listen?

This episode embodies what Destination Discourse aims to do: have honest, nuanced conversations that the industry might shy away from, while pushing professionals to ask tougher questions and prepare for what’s next. It’s not about telling you what to think—it’s about giving you the context to think differently.

If you find this episode valuable, share it with your colleagues, leave a review, and subscribe so you don’t miss future conversations shaping the future of destination marketing.

In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam are joined by Christian Mengel of St. Joseph CVB—who is not the dating site, despite the name—for a compelling discussion about what destination marketers can learn from the decline of traditional media.

Christian brings his background in journalism to unpack how newspapers, TV, and radio lost their position as trusted sources, and how DMOs may be on a similar path if they don’t adapt to shifting consumer behavior and technology.

They explore:

 • The new marketing equation: Attention + Trust = Success

 • Why a Tampa real estate agent’s viral home tours offer a masterclass in modern content strategy

 • How media lost control—and how AI threatens to do the same to DMOs

 • Why consistency, creativity, and community connection are the new currency

 • How to build coalitions of creators to shape narrative and build trust

 • Why you can’t just claim authenticity—you have to earn it

 • What Myrtle Beach is doing to future-proof its voice with a local Creator Collective

This episode is equal parts warning, wisdom, and inspiration for DMOs ready to evolve before it’s too late.

Call to Action:

If you’re in destination marketing, don’t keep this episode to yourself. Share it with a colleague, subscribe on your favorite platform, and join us in redefining what it means to be relevant in the AI era.

We brought Destination Discourse to the main stage at ESTO 2025 for a special live debate—and it did not disappoint. In this high-energy session, Stuart and Adam tackled two provocative questions shaping the future of destination marketing:

 1. Will DMO websites be irrelevant in 5 years?

 2. Will the ROI of paid media continue to decline?

With the audience choosing which side each of us had to argue (regardless of our actual opinions), we explored both sides of the argument—pushing boundaries, challenging assumptions, and asking what the future might hold for destination marketing.

Key themes included:

 • The rise of AI and conversational interfaces replacing traditional search behavior

 • The shifting value of brand in the prompt era

 • The battle between OTAs and destination-owned ecosystems

 • Whether performance metrics are becoming a crutch or a compass

 • What DMO websites should evolve into—if they’re going to matter at all

 • Why upper funnel investment might be the smartest play in a fragmented media landscape

We wrapped with audience Q&A and left the room with more questions than answers—which was exactly the point.

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Takeaways:

 • Don’t build a website. Build an immersive, personalized platform.

 • Brand matters more than ever when AI chooses what to surface.

 • Paid media isn’t dying—it’s just getting more expensive and harder to measure.

 • If you’re not in the prompt, you’re not in the trip.

 • DMOs must stop measuring what’s easy and start measuring what matters.

 • The future isn’t fixed—and that should excite us.

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Call to Action:

Whether you were in the room or not, we hope this episode gets you thinking differently. Share it with a colleague, spark a conversation, and stay tuned for more Destination Discourse episodes that challenge conventional wisdom.

In this jam-packed episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam welcome Kristen Adamo, President & CEO of Go Providence, for a powerful conversation about the evolving role of destination marketing organizations—and more specifically—the CEO’s role in product development and community stewardship.

They explore:

• How Go Providence helped save WaterFire and turned it into an economic development lever

• Why advocacy starts with being at the table, and sometimes means setting the table

• How marketers are uniquely positioned to become CEOs (and why more of them should be)

• The difference between promoting a destination and shaping it

• The importance of “marketing the marketing”—including leave-behind ROI cards, op-eds, and internal newsletters

• Why product development is brand management—and the risk of promoting an experience that doesn’t exist

• How DMOs can gain influence with elected officials and avoid being seen as a “nice-to-have”

Takeaways:

→ If you’re not involved in product, you may be promoting something that’s no longer competitive.

→ The most successful DMOs act as connectors, collaborators, and quiet power players—without needing the credit.

→ Marketing skills (storytelling, communication, vision) are becoming critical CEO traits in a post-COVID world.

→ Local advocacy isn’t optional anymore—it’s a core part of destination leadership.

→ Want to be indispensable? Tie every initiative back to room nights and community impact.

In this no-guest, think-out-loud episode, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker tackle one of the most urgent shifts in destination marketing: how AI-powered trip planning and booking could change everything DMOs know about awareness, attribution, and conversion. They unpack Google Ads’ new branded search metric and why it may signal a swing back toward brand-first strategies, then dive into the coming challenge of Large Language Model (LLM) optimization. From schema markup and unique first-person content to integrated paid partnerships and community-driven brand amplification, they explore what it will take to make sure your destination is “in the prompt” when AI tools start recommending and booking trips. This is an unfiltered conversation about the pendulum swing from clicks back to brand, the blending of paid, earned, and owned media, and why attention, not just impressions, will be the new currency.

Takeaways:

 • Why Google’s new branded search metric hints at a return to brand-first marketing.

 • How AI trip planning tools may bypass your website entirely and what to do about it.

 • LLM optimization basics: schema, unique content, and authoritative sources.

 • Why DMOs must think beyond their own brand to elevate the destination’s brand.

 • How to make paid media dollars work harder through integrated, multi-channel partnerships.

Call to Action:

If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and share Destination Discourse with a friend in the industry. And if you think we’re wrong or have your own perspective on the “brand in the prompt” era, reach out to join the conversation.