devcast...

Vicky Skinner - CFO, Urbanest
Georgia Zambakides - Executive Director, deverellsmith

They discuss:

• Why top talent isn’t actively looking and how to reach them
• Candidate motivations and risk aversion in a challenging economic climate
• The rise of single-family housing and diversification trends across real estate sectors
• Practical job search advice for candidates in 2025
• Why finding a mentor could be the best move for your career progression

Whether you're hiring, job hunting, or simply want a deeper understanding of what’s happening in the built environment talent market, this episode provides sharp, honest insight from two industry experts.

In this episode, Tess, a Senior Manager at Deborah Smith, and Alice, a specialist in new homes sales and customer service, discuss the ins and outs of temporary recruitment within the real estate sector. They highlight why summer is the busiest season for temp roles, as holiday cover creates excellent opportunities for those looking to break into the industry, particularly candidates from hospitality or luxury retail backgrounds who often transition well. The pair explain the benefits of temp work, including weekly pay, flexibility, and the potential to secure permanent positions, while noting some professionals even take on temp roles alongside full-time jobs for extra income.

Bertie originally studied History of Arts at Leeds and wanted to work in the art world, but his dad's clients convinced him to learn the ropes at Russell Simpson first. He joined at 21 just before the 2008 crash and didn't do a single deal for his first year - not exactly the smoothest start! Despite being naturally shy and reserved, he stuck with it and eventually found his groove working alongside five of his six siblings.

Bertie talks about what it's like being the eldest of six kids and how that shaped his approach to running the business. He's had to prove himself beyond just being "Alan's son" and has developed his leadership style through lots of reading business books and working with a therapist-coach. His philosophy is pretty straightforward - understand what people are good at, get out of their way, and let them do their thing without friction. 

When it comes to the current property market, Bertie shares his thoughts on everything, including political uncertainty affecting buyers. Russell Simpson is expanding into Mayfair and has partnered with a similar family business in Manhattan to help with US buyers. He's realistic about the challenges but optimistic about London's appeal. The conversation wraps up with some fun, quick-fire questions where Bertie reveals his obsession with real tennis (an obscure sport with only 40 courts worldwide) and his dream of creating a family commune in Oxfordshire complete with chickens and a vegetable patch.

Guy Horn's journey into social housing began somewhat unexpectedly. Fresh out of university in 2015, he and his business partner, David, were simply looking for a way to make money without working for someone else. They discovered they could buy terraced houses in Greater Manchester for £50,000 and learned about an opportunity to house homeless families while generating returns.

"It was kind of a way of saying, OK, we'll invest in property, get a great return and do some good in the world," Horn explained. What started as a practical business decision evolved into something much more meaningful.

The transformation from money-focused entrepreneurs to mission-driven leaders happened organically. About a year and a half into the business, as they began seeing the real impact of their work, their "why" fundamentally shifted.

"Our why changed from trying to make some money leaving university, to actually we're creating amazing impact now. We're solving a huge problem," Horn shared. This evolution highlights how authentic purpose often emerges through doing the work rather than starting with grand mission statements.

HSPG operates in a landscape marked by severe challenges:

Over 1 million people on housing waiting lists

More than 500,000 people in unsuitable accommodation

Local authorities spending £250 million over budget on temporary accommodation

Families living in hotels for 5-7 years without proper cooking facilities

Horn emphasises that these aren't just statistics, they represent real people facing daily hardships that ripple through education, employment, and community stability.

What sets HSPG apart is their comprehensive approach. Rather than specialising in one area and expanding later, they integrated the entire lifecycle from day one—acquisition, development, property management, and investor relations. This holistic model emerged from necessity but became their competitive advantage.

The company has also taken the unusual step of acquiring a for-profit registered provider, allowing them to deliver both new-build affordable housing and supported accommodation for those transitioning from homelessness to independent living.

Perhaps most remarkably, HSPG boasts an almost zero voluntary turnover rate. Horn attributes this to a culture built organically from core team members rather than imposed from above.

"When we first started talking about our behaviours 5 or 6 years ago, it was like who are we? What is HSPG? What does it do?" This authentic approach to culture creation, rooted in actual behaviours rather than aspirational values, has created a workforce deeply committed to the mission.

HSPG's ambition is to deliver 2,000 more units over the next 3-5 years, a significant increase that still represents less than half a per cent of what's actually needed. This perspective keeps the team grounded while highlighting the enormous opportunity ahead.

"There could be 10 more HSPGs and we still wouldn't even touch the sides," Horn noted, emphasising both the scale of the challenge and the potential for others to create a similar impact.

Horn's counsel for would-be entrepreneurs is refreshingly practical: "Just decide this is what I'm going to do... I'm going to get moving with it." He emphasises that getting started is the hardest part, but once you're moving, changing direction becomes much easier than starting from a standstill.

For those interested in social housing specifically, he highlights the tangible nature of the work and the ability to help people every single day while generating attractive returns, a rare combination in any industry.

A significant portion of the conversation centres around CBRE's innovative "affiliate model," a self-employed brokerage approach that provides flexibility while maintaining quality service standards. Unlike traditional employment models or other self-employed setups in the industry, CBRE's approach uniquely provides brokers with instructions and leads rather than requiring them to source their own business. "The affiliate model is essentially a self-employed brokerage model with a few differences," Ibrahim explains. "We provide brokers with instructions. We don't expect them to go out and win new instructions." This hybrid approach allows professionals to focus on their strengths in transacting rather than having to both win and execute business, while offering remuneration that wouldn't be financially viable under a traditional employment model.

The podcast also delves into pressing industry challenges, particularly the upcoming Renters Reform Bill, which Ibrahim describes as "the single biggest change to the private rented sector since 1998." While the removal of "no-fault evictions" has garnered headlines, Ibrahim highlights a potentially more significant aspect: the inability to ask tenants to pay rent in advance, which could have serious "unintended consequences." When discussing the future of real estate, Ibrahim emphasises that the fundamental issue remains insufficient housing supply. "I think fundamentally we don't build enough homes," he states, adding that the build-to-rent sector presents opportunities as private landlords exit the market due to increased regulation and taxation.

As the conversation wraps up, Ibrahim shares his wish for the industry: greater collaboration. Despite the competitive nature of real estate, he believes professionals need to communicate more openly, share ideas, and present a unified voice when addressing regulatory changes. "We don't talk to each other enough... We don't share ideas. We don't come together as an industry," he observes, noting how this lack of unity undermined the sector's ability to effectively engage with the government on the Renters Reform Bill. Ibrahim's perspective offers a refreshing take on real estate's future—one that embraces innovation, flexibility, and collaborative problem-solving to address the housing challenges facing the UK market.

Our expert panel discusses the premium skills driving higher compensation, strategies for talent acquisition and retention, and the impact of global talent movement on the UK market.

The panel includes:

• Andrew Deverell-Smith - CEO and Founder of deverellsmith & Hintel
• Georgia Zambakides - Executive Director
• Chris Litras - Director, Investment, Development & Construction
• Ryan Doyle - Senior Business Development Manager, Estate Agency

Our discussion begins with an assessment of whether salaries have increased, decreased, or remained stagnant over the past 12 months. We analyse how these changes differ across entry-level, mid-level, and senior positions within the real estate industry. The conversation covers the influence of reduced bonus payouts on total compensation packages and examines candidates' willingness to accept lower salaries when changing positions in the current market.

The landscape of valuable skills continues to evolve rapidly. Since 2016, 25% of job skills have already transformed, with another 65% projected to change by 2030. Our experts highlight the fastest-growing skills that command premium compensation in today's market: creativity, advanced IT and programming, scientific research and development, advanced communication, and negotiation skills. We explore real-world examples of how professionals with these skills are securing higher salaries and bonuses across the real estate sector.

Recent National Insurance increases have created new challenges for hiring and retention. Our panel examines how these changes, along with the Renters Reform Act, are reshaping the real estate business landscape. We compare salary benchmarks across related industries and offer targeted advice for hiring managers looking to scale their businesses while remaining competitive in compensation. The discussion identifies the most significant recruitment challenges facing the sector and explores the bonus structures and long-term incentives being deployed to retain top talent.

Remote and hybrid work arrangements continue to reshape compensation structures throughout the industry. Our experts discuss regional salary differentials and their evolution in a more location-flexible workforce. The conversation provides valuable strategies for negotiating compensation in this new work paradigm, with insights relevant to both employers and employees.

With 69% of employers concerned about losing staff over lower pay, our panel addresses strategies for attracting and retaining high-quality talent beyond salary considerations. We explore approaches for making real estate more appealing to entry-level candidates and recent graduates, particularly in light of graduates struggling to find jobs in their studied fields. Our experts identify untapped opportunities for bringing fresh talent into the industry.

The podcast examines international talent movement patterns, particularly the flow from the UK to UAE and Saudi Arabia. We analyze the impact of these migration trends on domestic wage structures and discuss strategies for competing in an increasingly global talent marketplace. Our panel shares insights on how these shifts are influencing compensation decisions across different segments of the real estate sector.

In our forward-looking segment, we present projections for salary trends over the next 12 months and discuss legislative changes that may impact sales and hiring practices in real estate. Our experts highlight growth opportunities in specific areas of the sector and offer forecasts on which segments of the industry will see the most significant compensation changes in the coming year.

Our experts conclude with their predictions on whether salaries will increase, decrease, or remain stable in the coming year, providing valuable insights for both employers and job seekers in the real estate industry.

The government’s ambitious goal of delivering 1.5 million homes within this parliamentary term is undeniably bold. Bob Weston, Chairman of Weston Homes, highlighted the need for significant action to meet demand, particularly given a 40% drop in housing output and a decline in first-time buyers due to limited mortgage support schemes.

Robert Mulryan, Director at Ballymore, emphasised that London, in particular, faces a steeper challenge, with construction starts down approximately 70% from the 10-year average. However, both experts expressed optimism that with the right policy changes and industry collaboration, the sector can regain momentum.

London remains a world-class city, but maintaining its appeal to high-net-worth individuals and businesses is crucial. Daniel Daggers, Founder of DDRE.Global, pointed out that London must compete more effectively for global talent and investment.

“The ultra-high-net-worth community is hypermobile,” he explained. “We need to create an environment that entices them to choose London over other global hubs.”

Daggers advocated for more supportive tax policies, streamlined entrepreneurial regulations, and enhanced AI capabilities to foster a thriving business environment.

Geeta Nanda, a leader in both affordable housing and private development, underscored the importance of making housing accessible to medium-income groups. “The demand for housing is massive, particularly in London. We need to innovate in how we fund and deliver affordable housing,” she said.

She highlighted the vital role housing associations play in affordability but noted that rising costs and financial pressures have limited their ability to build at scale. Her call to action? More efficient allocation of existing government funds rather than reliance on new funding sources.

The panel shared a range of solutions designed to boost housing supply and affordability, including:

Recapitalising Housing Associations: Redirecting funds to support building safety measures, freeing up resources for new development.

Simplifying Design Standards: Adjusting London’s design requirements to enable the construction of more affordable homes, better aligned with market demand.

Expanding Mortgage Availability: Introducing genuine 90% mortgage products to improve accessibility for first-time buyers.

Updating Shared Ownership Caps: Revising outdated income thresholds to reflect current market realities and allow more people to benefit.

Empowering Small and Medium Developers: Supporting smaller projects that can contribute to overall supply while waiting for larger developments to materialise.

Despite the challenges, the panel remained confident in London’s enduring appeal. Robert Elder, Senior Economist at the Bank of England, reassured attendees that the current government is committed to building more homes and is open to practical solutions from industry leaders.

London’s cultural and economic strengths remain a powerful draw. “60% of global music production happens in the UK. We have an incredible theatre district. The talent here is exceptional,” noted Daniel Daggers.

Robert Mulryan added a note of urgency: “London is one of the greatest cities in the world, but competition is fierce. We need to act decisively to maintain our position.”

The message from the panel was clear: the time for discussion has passed—it’s time for action. Addressing the housing crisis isn’t just about policy; it’s about people.

Geeta Nanda summed it up best: “We need to start making real, actionable changes.”

With the right strategies, collaboration, and commitment, the UK has the expertise and investment potential to create a thriving, inclusive housing market that works for everyone.

Jonathan has had quite the journey - starting in professional rugby before transitioning into the corporate real estate world. Reflecting on his career shift, he acknowledges that the structured, high-pressure culture of traditional agencies didn’t quite align with his vision. Instead, he and Richard sought to create a space where agents could thrive in an environment built on autonomy, collaboration, and ethical responsibility.

Their philosophy is simple: slow down, focus on quality over quantity, and put clients’ needs first. House Collective prioritises a more curated approach. By ensuring that agents handle fewer properties at a time, they can provide a more personalised and attentive service to their clients.

But what truly makes House Collective unique is its dual-discipline model. Unlike traditional firms that separate sales and lettings into two distinct roles, House Collective encourages its agents to be proficient in both. This not only provides agents with more career opportunities but also ensures that clients receive a seamless experience, whether they are buying, selling, or renting.

One of House Collectives' standout achievements is their B-Corp certification. Achieving this wasn't easy for Richard and Jonathan, it was a rigorous process that demanded transparency, sustainability, and ethical business practices. But, for House Collective, it wasn’t about checking a box; it was about solidifying their values and setting a new standard for estate agencies.

Parul began her career studying politics and working in the public sector, where she qualified as an accountant. Seeking a faster-paced environment, she transitioned into management consultancy, spending six years tackling challenges for large organisations and travelling extensively.

After starting a family, Parul sought a better work-life balance. At that time, her brother had just launched Fruition Properties and completed its first construction project. He invited her to join the business to support its operations and systems. Two decades later, Parul remains vital to the company’s success and growth.

We asked Parul what advice she would give to someone considering taking a leap of faith into the property industry. Her response? “Say yes.” She encourages embracing opportunities, even if they seem daunting at first. Parul advises focusing on discovering what you excel at and using that as a foundation to build your career.

She believes that each job presents an opportunity to learn more about what you enjoy and what might not be the best fit for you. There’s immense value in exploring diverse roles and experiences until you find an environment that feels like home—a place where you can truly grow and develop your skills. By remaining open to possibilities and trusting the process, you can carve out a fulfilling path in the property industry.