What is it like to be a non-human animal? Can neuroscience tell us the answer?

In one of the most famous philosophy essays of the 20th century, Thomas Nagel suggested that we can never use science to know what it is like to be another animal, say, a bat. Neuroscience can describe bat physiology. But it can never tell us “what it is like to be a bat”.

Gregory Berns is an animal neuroscientist. As you might guess, he disagrees with Nagel.

Berns is a pioneer in using fMRI scanning on dogs (who in his lab, participate voluntarily). And Berns believes that studying the dog brain can tell us what it is like to be a dog - or at least, give us a hint.

In this discussion, Ilari and Prof Berns discuss:

• Do dogs love their owners? The origins and findings of the Dog Project.
• Would Nagel actually disagree with Berns’ conclusions?
• Is attributing human emotions to dogs a form of anthropomorphism?
• The Panksepp vs Barrett debate in affective neuroscience: Are emotions hardwired to our brain? Or are they dependent on concepts and language?
• Animal welfare and speciesism: Are some species "special" in relevant ways? How do Prof Berns and Ilari approach the issue of animal welfare in their diets?

Names mentioned

• Rene Descartes (French philosopher, 1596-1650)
• Thomas Nagel (20th Century, 1937-)
• Jeremy Bentham (British philosopher & utilitarian, 1748-1832)
• Jaak Panksepp (Estonian-American neuroscientist, 1943-2017)
• Lisa Feldman Barrett (American neuroscientist, 1963-)
• Hal Hertzhog (anthrozoologist)

Technical terms mentioned

• fMRI (brain scanning technology)
• PET (brain scanning technology)
• Chemotaxis
• Claustrum
• Brain stem

Extra points

• Get in touch: email [email protected] or form https://on-humans.podcastpage.io/contact
• Ilari’s bonus recommendation (not a paid promotion): Gourmet-level insect foods from YumBug https://www.yumbug.com/shop