What does it mean to live in right relationship with intelligence, human, more than human, and now artificial? In this episode of The Nature Of, Willow sits down with writer, storyteller, and Life With Machines host Baratunde Thurston to explore the complicated emotions many of us are carrying about AI, from fear and overwhelm to curiosity and cautious hope. Together, they reflect on what it means to encounter a technology that feels less like a tool and more like a presence, one that may soon live alongside us as collaborator, colleague, or even neighbor, while tracing unexpected connections between artificial intelligence and natural intelligence, creativity and extraction, domination and relationship. If you are navigating your own boundaries, questions, or ambivalence around AI, this conversation is an invitation to slow down, embrace nuance, and stay in dialogue with each other, with nature, and with what is emerging.

For more about Baratunde Thurston: https://www.baratunde.com/

To watch Life With Machines: https://www.lifewithmachines.media/

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In this week’s episode of The Nature Of, Willow sits down with Robin Wall Kimmerer, beloved scientist, author of Braiding Sweetgrass, and member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation. They explore the shift from learning about to learning from nature, understanding that the land loves us back, and her new initiative Plant Baby Plant. Robin invites us to step back into belonging, and to see the natural world not as something separate from us, but as a generous teacher offering guidance every single day. This conversation is full of wonder and clarity, and it just might change the way you walk outside.

On Embracing the More-Than-Human Through Law and Language: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/embracing-the-more-than-human-through-law-and-language/

On Why The World Needs Spiritual Ecology: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/why-the-world-needs-spiritual-ecology/

Find out more about Plant Baby Plant: https://plantbabyplant.com/

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Movements evolve the way ecosystems do—through tension, adaptation, and collective resilience. In this episode, Willow is joined by writer and cultural critic Roxane Gay to explore the shifting landscape of feminism. Together, they revisit the ideas at the heart of Bad Feminist, question what’s really in crisis, and trace the possibilities that emerge when we stop ceding ground and begin tending to a broader, more interconnected ecosystem of care. This conversation invites us to imagine feminism as a living practice—one that grows with us, holds us accountable, and makes room for all of our complexity as we work toward a more generous future.

For Roxane Gay's substack: https://audacity.substack.com/

On Reproductive Choice: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/when-the-world-is-on-fire-what-does-reproductive-choice-really-mean/

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In this episode, host Willow Defebaugh is joined by renowned climate scientist and writer Kate Marvel for a conversation about her book, Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet. With poetic insight and scientific precision, Marvel reframes climate change not just as a planetary emergency, but as an emotional experience, one that demands our full humanity. Together, they explore how feelings like wonder, anger, grief, and love can become tools for engagement rather than paralysis, and what it means to hold both scientific truth and emotional complexity in a time of profound transformation.

For more about Kate Marvel and her book Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet: https://www.marvelclimate.com/

On Climate Science: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/the-emotional-whiplash-of-a-climate-scientist/

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What does it mean to move like a river and to live in flow with the world around us? In this episode, Willow is joined by one of the world’s most celebrated nature writers, Robert Macfarlane, to follow the many forms of flow—of water, of language, and of life itself. Together, they explore the question at the heart of his newest book: Is a River Alive? They trace the currents that shape our stories and laws, asking what becomes possible when we see water as something that moves through us. This conversation invites us to remember that to live is to flow, to be carried, changed, and continually renewed.

On the Life of Rivers: https://atmos.earth/climate-solutions/how-recognizing-the-life-of-rivers-could-transform-the-law

On the Wisdom of Rivers: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/the-overview-the-wisdom-of-rivers

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How can we alchemize pain into possibility? In this episode, Willow is joined by bestselling author, artist, and three-time cancer survivor Suleika Jaouad to explore the nature of imagination as a tool to help us navigate life’s most impossible moments.Through the lens of her new book, The Book of Alchemy, Suleika shares how creativity became her lifeline during her years of treatment: not just a means of expression, but a vital practice of presence, transformation, and survival. Together, they explore imagination as a force that allows us to find our way through uncertainty and re-enchant ourselves with the everyday.

For more about Suleika Jaouad: suleikajaouad.com

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The Nature Of is coming back with even more inspiring conversations. Every other week. All year long.

Join us as we continue walking this path towards reconnection with ourselves, each other, and the Earth. 

New episodes begin on October 21, 2025.

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How can the way we cultivate relationships with one another offer insight into healing our fractured relationship with nature? In this episode, Willow is joined by renowned psychotherapist and bestselling author Esther Perel, whose work has reshaped how we understand intimacy, communication, and belonging in the modern world. They explore the intersections between human and ecological connection, and the epidemic of loneliness that so many are experiencing today. From the importance of relational intelligence to the role of desire in deepening our bonds, this episode unpacks how embracing the complexity of relationships—whether with people or the planet—can lead to greater resilience, reciprocity, and renewal. 

On loneliness and curiosity: https://www.estherperel.com/blog/letters-from-esther-54-curiosity-is-a-balm-for-loneliness

On mutualism: https://atmos.earth/overview-mutualism-symbiosis-deep-ecology/

On queerness in nature: https://atmos.earth/overview-nature-and-queerness-lets-talk-about-sex/

On mating behaviors: https://atmos.earth/overview-relationships-mating-games/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/esther-perel-on-the-nature-of-connection-and-modern-loneliness-ep-1/

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Nature is the ultimate artist—shaping landscapes over millennia, sculpting coastlines with waves, and composing symphonies in birdsong. In this episode, Grammy-nominated musician Maggie Rogers joins Willow for a conversation on creative rhythm, artistic sustainability, and the deep inspiration she draws from the natural world. As an artist who has intentionally crafted a career that honors both personal well-being and creative integrity, Maggie shares insights into how slowing down can actually enhance the creative process. Together, they explore the lessons nature teaches about cycles of rest and renewal, the importance of protecting one's artistic energy, and the power of making music—and life—at a pace that feels true.

For more about Maggie Rogers: https://www.maggierogers.com/

To find a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/maggie-rogers-on-the-nature-of-rhythm-and-making-music

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What if the rupture of these tumultuous times is not an ending, but an opening? In this episode, Willow speaks with Bayo Akomolafe, philosopher, poet, and thinker whose work challenges us to step beyond binaries and into the fertile, unpredictable space of emergence. They dig into how transformation doesn’t come from rigid certainty or oppositional thinking, but from the cracks—where new possibilities take root. Nature does not resolve tension; it composts it, making way for something unexpected to arise. Bayo invites us to see the turbulence of our moment not as a problem to be solved, but as an invitation to step out of fixed ways of being and embrace the "third way"—the space between and beyond, where new ways of relating, knowing, and becoming can unfold.

For more about Bayo Akomolafe: https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/

On How to Make Sanctuary in Times of Loss: https://atmos.earth/political-landscapes/bayo-akomolafe-on-how-to-make-sanctuary-in-times-of-loss/

On Slowing Down in Urgent Times: https://atmos.earth/ecological-wisdom/dr-bayo-akomolafe-on-slowing-down-in-urgent-times/

To see a transcript of this episode: https://atmos.earth/podcast/bayo-akomolafe-on-the-nature-of-possibility-in-uncertain-times/

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