Do Human Work

In this episode of Do Human Work, Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Dirce Hernandez, Sr. Cybersecurity GRC Manager and adjunct professor, to demystify AI governance beyond the buzzwords. From defining governance in plain language to setting practical guardrails like policies, steering groups, and human-in-the-loop reviews, Dirce shares how organizations can innovate without risking shadow AI, data leakage, or checkbox compliance.

He also digs into higher ed’s adoption curve, how explainability is becoming non-negotiable with regulators, and why leadership buy-in beats tool sprawl. Plus: actionable career advice for students and pros alike, evolving certifications (CCSK and beyond), and how AI can supercharge upskilling paths without replacing human judgment.

00:00 – Defining real AI governance

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In this episode of Do Human Work, Nate Burke and Lior Div welcome Wayman Cummings, the Chief Information Security Officer at Ochsner Health Systems, to discuss the revolutionary role of AI in cybersecurity. From pioneering the use of robots at the Super Bowl to insights on mentoring diverse teams, Wayman shares his vision for AI as an enabler of human potential. The episode explores how he integrates AI into cybersecurity practices to empower defenders and why he believes in choosing partners over vendors for collaborative success.

Wayman also provides a unique perspective on hiring practices that could transform cybersecurity teams, focusing on unconventional backgrounds and innate problem-solving abilities rather than traditional experience. As AI continues to reshape industries, Wayman envisions a future where technology works hand-in-hand with human ingenuity, creating powerful synergies and new opportunities for growth.

Impactful Moments:

00:00 – Introduction

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What insights from past IT revolutions should today's CISOs understand, and how can AI transform cybersecurity in healthcare?

Bill Brown, Chief Information Security Officer and Chief Information Officer at Abacus Insights, joins hosts Nate Burke and guest host, Yonatan Striem-Amit, for an engaging discussion on AI's role in securing sensitive healthcare data. Brown shares his journey from IT in the early days to leading security at Abacus Insights, emphasizing the balance between innovation and risk. Discover how AI is reshaping cybersecurity and hear unique insights into transforming traditional roles.

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What happens when a law firm becomes an early adopter of AI? Hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Jason Thomas, CIO of Cole, Scott & Kissane, Florida’s largest civil defense law firm, to explore how AI is changing up the legal and cybersecurity landscape. From pioneering AI in finance operations nearly a decade ago to empowering teams with cutting-edge automation, Jason shares how his firm challenges the stereotype of law firms as technology laggards.

Recorded live at Black Hat 2025, this conversation covers cultural shifts needed to embrace AI, the importance of reallocating talent rather than replacing it, and why the modern SOC may already be on the path to legacy status. Discover how forward-looking leaders like Jason are redefining human work, keeping teams engaged, and preparing for the AI-driven future of cybersecurity.

Impactful Moments:

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What happens when cybersecurity leaders stop just managing risk and start driving innovation? Hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Kyle Kurdziolek, VP of Security at BigID, to introduce the bold idea of the Chief Innovation Security Officer. In an era where AI is reshaping both defense strategies and attacker playbooks, Kyle reveals how forward-thinking leaders can harness AI to scale their teams, cut through alert fatigue, and stay ahead of adversaries.

Recorded live at Black Hat, this episode of Do Human Work challenges listeners to rethink the role of AI in security, not as a threat, but as an accelerator. Discover how embracing AI to offload repetitive tasks empowers humans to do what only they can: think critically, solve complex problems, and drive the future of cybersecurity.

Impactful Moments:

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How do you secure a company with over 130,000 employees against evolving cyber threats using AI? Michael Baker, Vice President and Global CISO at DXC Technology, joins hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore the future of cybersecurity, emphasizing the importance of staying ahead in the AI era. In this episode, they cover Michael’s journey into cybersecurity leadership, the evolving role of CISOs, and how AI is reshaping cybersecurity landscapes, driving not only risk management but opportunity in the realm of cyber defense.

Michael shares his insights from decades in cybersecurity, highlighting the critical need to adapt to rapidly changing threats. He emphasizes the importance of being proactive with AI technologies to empower cybersecurity teams and manage risks effectively. Explore how AI can free up valuable time, enabling teams to focus on strategic priorities while addressing the challenges of adversarial AI and keeping pace with advancing threats.

Impactful Moments:

00:00 - Introduction

Most CISOs are stuck in a cycle of reaction, chasing threats, plugging holes, and hoping to keep up. Mignona Coté is done with that.

In this episode, Nate and Lior travel to Dallas, TX to sit down with Mignona, SVP CISO at Infor. Together, they talk about how AI is shifting the cybersecurity landscape from constant triage to strategic advantage. Mignona shares how she’s seen security evolve across industries like healthcare, finance, and cloud, and why now is the time to lead with creativity, not just compliance. From automating defenses to mentoring the next wave of defenders, she offers a direct view into where cyber goes from here.

Impactful Moments:

00:00 – Introduction

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What if AI could eliminate burnout instead of just speeding things up? Gavin Grisamore, CISO at Lead Bank, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to reimagine the future of cybersecurity, one where AI agents reduce toil, reshape SOC structures, and elevate human creativity.

In this episode, Gavin shares what it really means to manage risk in an AI-driven environment. From rethinking alert fatigue and L1/L2 roles to challenging sunk cost fallacies and shifting defensive strategies, the trio explores how AI is not just another tool, but a transformation. Whether you’re leading a team or navigating boardroom AI pressure, this conversation will challenge your assumptions about what’s next.

Impactful Moments:

00:00 – Introduction

00:53 – The value of leisure in cybersecurity

03:25 – AI’s role in risk management

05:15 – Rethinking security with AI agents

09:00 – Evolution of alerting structures in SOCs

11:14 – The fast and furious future of attacks

15:30 – Sunk cost fallacy in technology

20:31 – Future team dynamics in cybersecurity

23:30 – Transformation of threat intelligence

26:55 – Balancing human creativity with AI capabilities

From Sleep to Strategy: Cyber’s Human Future featuring John Koester

In this episode, Nate and Lior travel to Atlanta to sit down with John Koester, CISO of Graphic Packaging International, to explore what AI means for the human side of cybersecurity. From reimagining compliance and detection workflows to prioritizing creativity and employee development, John offers a grounded vision for how AI can return time to the people doing the work—and why that matters more than ever.

He discusses the pressing need for relationship-building inside large organizations, the risks of fast-moving attackers using AI, and how cyber leaders must prepare their teams to become true business partners. This conversation touches on architectural evolution, risk quantification, and the enduring importance of human engagement.

Impactful Moments

00:00 – Introduction

02:17 – AI gives time back for human focus

04:09 – AI can boost response effectiveness

06:00 – Attackers use AI to scale threats

08:03 – “Fire against fire” in cyber defense

13:02 – AI and the future of compliance

16:13 – Rethinking architecture in the AI era

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What happens when a Marine-turned-CISO stops accepting the status quo in cybersecurity? 

Benjamin Delieu, Chief Security Officer at Duck Creek Technologies, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore how AI agents—not centralized systems—are reshaping the future of security operations. From overburdened SOC teams to the hidden costs of legacy infrastructure, Benjamin shares his perspectives from the frontline of transformation. He reveals his DIY AI trainer, an “aha” moment in Italy, and how he’s empowering his team to think creatively and build faster. This episode isn't just about tech—it’s about leadership, mindset shifts, and letting go of the old to build what's next.

Impactful Moments:

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