What if AI could eliminate burnout instead of just speeding things up? Gavin Grisamore, CISO at Lead Bank, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to reimagine the future of cybersecurity, one where AI agents reduce toil, reshape SOC structures, and elevate human creativity.

In this episode, Gavin shares what it really means to manage risk in an AI-driven environment. From rethinking alert fatigue and L1/L2 roles to challenging sunk cost fallacies and shifting defensive strategies, the trio explores how AI is not just another tool, but a transformation. Whether you’re leading a team or navigating boardroom AI pressure, this conversation will challenge your assumptions about what’s next.

Impactful Moments:

00:00 – Introduction

00:53 – The value of leisure in cybersecurity

03:25 – AI’s role in risk management

05:15 – Rethinking security with AI agents

09:00 – Evolution of alerting structures in SOCs

11:14 – The fast and furious future of attacks

15:30 – Sunk cost fallacy in technology

20:31 – Future team dynamics in cybersecurity

23:30 – Transformation of threat intelligence

26:55 – Balancing human creativity with AI capabilities

From Sleep to Strategy: Cyber’s Human Future featuring John Koester

In this episode, Nate and Lior travel to Atlanta to sit down with John Koester, CISO of Graphic Packaging International, to explore what AI means for the human side of cybersecurity. From reimagining compliance and detection workflows to prioritizing creativity and employee development, John offers a grounded vision for how AI can return time to the people doing the work—and why that matters more than ever.

He discusses the pressing need for relationship-building inside large organizations, the risks of fast-moving attackers using AI, and how cyber leaders must prepare their teams to become true business partners. This conversation touches on architectural evolution, risk quantification, and the enduring importance of human engagement.

Impactful Moments

00:00 – Introduction

02:17 – AI gives time back for human focus

04:09 – AI can boost response effectiveness

06:00 – Attackers use AI to scale threats

08:03 – “Fire against fire” in cyber defense

13:02 – AI and the future of compliance

16:13 – Rethinking architecture in the AI era

Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What happens when a Marine-turned-CISO stops accepting the status quo in cybersecurity? 

Benjamin Delieu, Chief Security Officer at Duck Creek Technologies, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore how AI agents—not centralized systems—are reshaping the future of security operations. From overburdened SOC teams to the hidden costs of legacy infrastructure, Benjamin shares his perspectives from the frontline of transformation. He reveals his DIY AI trainer, an “aha” moment in Italy, and how he’s empowering his team to think creatively and build faster. This episode isn't just about tech—it’s about leadership, mindset shifts, and letting go of the old to build what's next.

Impactful Moments:

Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What would you do with 25% more time? 

Travis Farral, VP and CISO at Archaea Energy, joins hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore how AI can reclaim our time from cybersecurity’s tedious tasks—and what we’d do with that time instead. From data sifting and incident response to managing swarms of AI agents, the conversation dives into how the nature of human work is evolving and what defenders should expect next.

This episode kicks off "Do Human Work" with real talk about reclaiming creativity, the inevitability of AI-human collaboration, and why the arms race between attackers and defenders just leveled up.

Impactful Moments:

Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]