Nelson Repenning and Don Kieffer joined host Jamie Flinchbaugh to discuss their collaborative book "There's Got to Be a Better Way" and their approach to dynamic work design. Nelson Repenning is the School of Management Distinguished Professor at the MIT Sloan School of Management, while Don Kieffer is a senior lecturer in operations management at MIT Sloan and founder of ShiftGear Work Design. Their partnership represents a unique blend of academic rigor and practical factory floor experience spanning nearly three decades.

The conversation began with personal connections, as Jamie noted his long history working with Don during transformation efforts at companies like Harley-Davidson, and his experience as one of Nelson's first students in systems dynamics at MIT. Don shared how Jamie helped translate complex manufacturing concepts into accessible language during their work at Harley-Davidson.

The guests explained how their five core principles evolved through years of teaching and practical application. Nelson compared their development process to a stand-up comedian perfecting their act, starting with rough material and refining it through constant testing. The five principles they developed are: solve the right problem, structure for discovery, connect the human chain, regulate for flow, and visualize the work.

When discussing the challenge of solving the right problem, Nelson referenced Daniel Kahneman's work on conscious versus automatic thinking. He explained how people often revert to automatic processing under pressure, making structured problem-solving methods essential. Don emphasized how experienced problem solvers can jump to solutions too quickly, bypassing the crucial step of properly defining the problem.

The principle of structuring for discovery addresses why organizations should welcome more visible problems rather than hiding them. Don explained that problems reveal weaknesses in systems and create opportunities for innovation and stability. Nelson added that instead of helping people understand complex environments, they focus on structuring environments to be cleaner and more manageable.

Regarding connecting the human chain, Nelson emphasized that humans excel at processing uncertainty and ambiguity, particularly in face-to-face communication. He criticized how many organizations use long PowerPoint meetings for information sharing while handling uncertainty through digital messages. Don illustrated this with the frustration of call center scripts that cannot handle unique problems, explaining their concept of "huddles" versus "handoffs" in work design.

The discussion of visualizing work highlighted the particular challenges of knowledge work. Don explained that unlike manufacturing, where broken equipment is obvious, knowledge work problems remain hidden. People can be continuously interrupted and overloaded without visible signs. Nelson shared a striking example from Harley-Davidson where the average time to solve problems equaled the months remaining until product launch, regardless of when problems were discovered.

Don noted that while executives can easily draw organizational charts, they struggle to map how work actually flows through their organizations. The guests emphasized that simple visualization techniques can yield enormous gains in knowledge work because the dysfunction costs are typically hidden and accepted as normal.

Throughout the conversation, both guests stressed the importance of leaders staying connected to actual work rather than remaining distant from operational realities. They advocate for methods that make work visible and create structures that support both stability and continuous innovation.

For more information about Nelson Repenning and Don Kieffer's work, visit ShiftGear.com 

Find their book "There's Got to Be a Better Way"

Nelson can be found on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelson-repenning/