Join Andrew and esteemed researcher Stephen LaBerge in a rare live interview conducted at the Sedona lucid dreaming retreat, October 2019. This is an unusual interview because Stephen seldom does interviews; it was conducted in front of 50 wonderful participants; and the conversation has a warm-up, or preview. Andrew had prepared a set of questions for Stephen (submitted to Stephen the evening before) that dealt mostly with the science of lucid dreaming. But all those questions fell away as Dr. LaBerge gave his last brief talk at the event, part of which is now included as the prelude to the interview. In other words, Stephen’s concluding comments at the retreat changed the tenor of the originally designed interview, which now became entirely spontaneous and more personal. Andrew realized the direction was being changed as he sat on stage with Stephen, and started recording Stephen’s talk before the interview formally began. The recording was done on a smart phone, so pardon the quality.

The recording begins with Stephen addressing (as part of his talk) the question: Who am I? And who are the “others” in your dreams? This leads to a look at dream ethics, and the question: How do identity and lucidity fit together? The interview formally begins with a Big Question about mind and the universe, and Stephen harnesses the principle of complimentarity from physics to address it. “There is room for several views or maps.” Even the way a question is posed sends the mind in a particular direction. In a disarming statement from a scientist, Dr. LaBerge says that “All knowledge doesn’t just come from experiments,” and acknowledges the power of an open question. The conversation then turns to the subtle body -- “Is it just the subjective experience of the autonomic nervous system?” -- and a look at the classic “mind-body” problem. Stephen then shares personal accounts of how his science has changed him (can science be a spiritual path?). The conversation closes with a look at lucid dreaming and its place in evolution, and the promise and peril of the internet: Does the web disseminate knowledge or “noise,” the growth of knowledge or ignorance? In this interview you will see why LaBerge is the father of lucid dreaming in the West, and a unique scientist willing to embrace the wisdom of the East.

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Stephen LaBerge received his PhD in psychophysiology in 1980 from Stanford University where he studied consciousness, dreaming and waking for 25 years. He has taught classes on sleep and dreaming, psychobiology, and altered states of consciousness at Stanford, and San Francisco State University. In addition to numerous scientific articles on lucid dreaming, he has published many books on the topic, including the classics “Lucid Dreaming” and “Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming,” which have been published into eighteen languages. Widely regarded as the father of lucid dreaming in the West, LaBerge continues his research as an independent scholar and scientist. 

Join Andrew and celebrated philosopher Evan Thompson in a remarkable conversation that covers a vast terrain of topics. The discussion begins with a look at enactivism, the revolutionary concept explored with neuroscientist Francesco Varela in the landmark book The Embodied Mind, co-authored with Evan. The enactive view provides a platform for “I-making” as explored in Dr. Thompson’s most recent book, Waking Dreaming Being – that the self is an ongoing process of construction, a process that can be explored as the sense of self trans-forms when we fall into sleep and dream. The conversation then turns to “quantum phenomenology,” Evan’s term for the highly discerning mind developed by meditators. In this context they explore the difference between access consciousness and phenomenal consciousness, a distinction that is critical for lucid dreamers. The discussion then makes the important distinction between consciousness (which is dualistic) and awareness (which is non-dualistic), and then transitions to examine the place of psychedelics in exploring the nature of mind, and a provocative look at out-of-body (OBE) experiences, which are usually altered-embodied experiences. Most OBE’s are probably lucid dreams, and you can test this in your own dreams. Evan concludes with a look at his next book, Why I am NOT a Buddhist, and the many shadow elements of Buddhist modernism, and the promise and peril of East-West cross-pollination -- which can easily slip into cross-pollution. The discussion ends with a look at Buddhist exceptionalism, and the novel idea of cosmopolitanism. See why Dr. Thompson is one of the most sought after thinkers in the world today.

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About Evan Thompson

Evan Thompson is a writer and professor of philosophy at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. He works on the nature of the mind, the self, and human experience. His work combines cognitive science, philosophy of mind, phenomenology, and cross-cultural philosophy, especially Asian philosophical traditions. He is the author of Waking, Dreaming, Being: Self and Consciousness in Neuroscience, Meditation, and Philosophy (Columbia University Press, 2015); Mind in Life: Biology, Phenomenology, and the Sciences of Mind (Harvard University Press, 2007); and Colour Vision: A Study in Cognitive Science and the Philosophy of Perception (Routledge Press, 1995). He is the co-author, with Francisco J. Varela and Eleanor Rosch, of The Embodied Mind: Cognitive Science and Human Experience (MIT Press, 1991, revised edition 2016). Evan is an Elected Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada.

In this podcast, Andrew changes roles and is interviewed by Michael Taft, host of the popular “Deconstructing Yourself” podcast. Michael is a sensitive thinker, and the discussion leads to some interesting places. Join Andrew and Michael for this provocative conversation.

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Michael W. Taft is a maverick meditation teacher, bestselling author, and podcaster. As a mindfulness coach, he specializes in secular, science-based mindfulness training in retreats, groups, corporate settings, and one-on-one sessions. Michael is the author of several books, including the bestselling The Mindful Geek, Nondualism: A Brief History of a Timeless Concept, and Ego (which he co-authored), as well as the editor of such books as Hardwiring Happiness by Rick Hanson and The Science of Enlightenment by Shinzen Young.

He has often taught meditation at Google, worked on curriculum development for SIYLI, and is currently core faculty at Wisdom Labs, in San Francisco. Michael is also a featured teacher on the Simple Habit app, and an official advisor to the Therapeutic Neuroscience Lab. He was previously editor-in-chief of Being Human, and was the long-time editorial director of Sounds True. From Zen temples in Japan to yogi caves in India, Michael has been meditating for over thirty five years and has extensive experience in both Buddhist Vipassana and Hindu Tantric practice.

Good sleep is vital for Lucid Dreaming. Join Andrew and sleep specialist Nevin Arora, MD for a thorough look at the critical importance of sleep – and how to get it.

The jury is in: the shorter you sleep, the shorter you live. You don’t snooze, you lose. Dr. Arora shares a host of tips from his clinical practice, including gems about optimal sleep hygiene, how to work with insomnia, as well as the importance of daylight and the damaging effects of artificial light.

Falling asleep requires becoming “undone,” and as “human doings” (versus human beings) in these busy times, most of us are never done – and so we struggle with sleep. Sleep is so simple it’s ironically difficult: you only have to do nothing, but you have to do it well. Which is precisely where meditation fits in, because “doing nothing well” defines meditation.

The discussion turns to the neural correlates of the dreaming brain, and the future of non-pharmacological aids that entrain sleep states. Nevin offers an honest assessment of the role of sleep aids, including the place of melatonin and prescription drugs, saying that, “Band-aids only cover the problem, and hurt to rip off.”

The narrative of “reversing the problem by reversing the relationship to the problem” runs throughout this discussion, and therefore empowers individuals to take control by nurturing an appropriate relationship to sleep problems.

This is an informative conversation with a sleep doctor very familiar with lucid dreaming, and offers solid advice on how to get the good sleep that supports it.

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Nevin Arora MD is a board-certified sleep medicine specialist and co-founder of Lucidity Sleep and Psychiatry.

He received his medical degree from the University of Missouri-Kansas City, and completed his residency training in psychiatry at Georgetown University Hospital. His fellowship training in sleep medicine was completed at Stanford University Hospital.

Dr. Arora’s background in mental health offers a unique perspective on sleep and the treatment of sleep disorders. In addition to his work at Lucidity Sleep & Psychiatry, he works closely with the Dream in Del Mar sleep laboratory, and frequently travels to Stockton, CA to treat patients at Pacific Sleep Disorders Center.

Join Andrew and Professor Robert Thurman in a wide-ranging discussion starting with a “state of the union” address about the status of Buddhism in the West, and the place of Tibetan or Tantric Buddhism.

Are we ready for these subtle spiritual technologies – which include dream yoga and bardo yoga? Are the recent scandals an indication that we are not? The conversation turns to the “neuromania” sweeping over Buddhism and science, and the danger of reductionism in both disciplines. Dr. Thurman then talks about the importance of ethics, morality, and discipline on the path, and the role of Right View.

The discussion transitions into viewing dream yoga as a form of psychotherapy, the importance of making unconscious processes conscious, and how dream yoga could be the next step after the mindfulness revolution. Robert then talks about Menla Sleep Yoga and its restorative power, and finally about bardo yoga, with a look at the perennial question: “What is it that reincarnates?” Because of Professor Thurman’s unique stature and longevity, this discussion flows freely between politics, sex, power, science, death, meditation, Tibet, lucid dreaming and a host of other provocative topics.

This is a rare opportunity to tap into the wisdom of a gifted scholar and practitioner, someone who has devoted his life to the translation and transmission of Tibetan Buddhism to the West.

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Robert Thurman holds a Phd from Harvard University and is the Jey Tsong Khapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies in the Department of Religion at Columbia University. Dr. Thurman is also President of the American Institute of Buddhist Studies, a non-profit affiliated with the Center for Buddhist Studies at Columbia University and dedicated to the publication of translations of important artistic and scientific treatises. Time Magazine chose Professor Thurman as one of its 25 most influential Americans in 1997, and The New York Times said Thurman “is considered the leading American expert on Tibetan Buddhism.” After learning Tibetan and studying Buddhism he became a Tibetan Buddhist monk and was the first Westerner to be ordained by the Dalai Lama. He is the author of many books on Tibet, Buddhism, art, politics and culture.

As part of his long-term commitment to the Tibetan cause, at the request of H.H. the Dalai Lama, Thurman co-founded Tibet House US in 1987 with Richard Gere and Philip Glass, which is a non profit organization  dedicated to the preservation and renaissance of Tibetan civilization. Tibet House recently founded the Menla Retreat + Dewa Spa in the Catskill Mountains to advance the healing arts and wisdom of Tibetan and Asian medicine.

Join Andrew and author Jennifer Dumpert in a lively discussion about Liminal Dreaming, that twilight zone of consciousness between waking and dreaming. Also known as the hypnogogic-hypnopompic state, liminal dreaming is a fascinating state where the boundaries of ego dissolve, and the mind enters a playground of transformation. Watching how the ego falls apart in this unglued state helps us understand how it comes together as we get back online in the waking state – and glue the narrative of our lives back together.

The conversation begins with an overview of liminal (“threshold”) states altogether – both psychological and physical — and the revelations that unfold if one can remain lucid to these states. Jennifer discusses how Thomas Edison and Salvador Dali both used these states for creativity, and how anyone can practice liminal dreaming, which is much easier than lucid dreaming. Armed with a few tips, anybody can do it.

The conversation turns to the stages of liminal dreaming, emphasizing the autosymbolic (or thought-image amalgamation) stage. Jennifer touts the benefits of developing a “crepuscular culture,” and how much we can learn from non-narrative (non-egoic) states of mind.

The discussion turns to how liminal dreaming is connected to bardo tenets, and how dying itself – when one is not fully in this world nor the next – is an extended liminal space. By “surfing the edges of consciousness,” and “playing in the changing froth of perception” now, we can acquaint ourselves with similar states of mind that we will experience when we die. As the poet Kabir said of death, “What is found now is found then.” Liminality, like the bardo principle altogether, has vast applicability.

Join Andrew and Dr. Judson Brewer as they take a close look at the nuts-and-bolts of addiction, and how it relates to non-lucidity. Judson shares the recent work of his lab, and the neuroscience that helps us understand how we get hooked into virtually anything, including our dreams. We’re addicted to thinking, to distraction, to ourselves, to technology, even to love. The conversation moves to a look at the swept up continuum, a scientific description of how we get sucked into things (including non-lucid dreams), and how to pull ourselves out. In addition to the famous default mode network, Dr. Brewer discusses other parts of the brain that play an active part in our craving, and how meditation plays a leading role in transforming craving and addiction. Awareness practices hit the “pause button” in the machinery of addiction, and can radically transform previously intractable cravings. Using tenets talked about by the Buddha, the discussion turns to how ancient teachings (like the 12 links of dependent origination) have modern applications. Learn how ignorance in the past expresses itself as craving in the present – how craving is “applied ignorance.” Judson says that “Willpower is more myth than muscle,” and that one of the best ways to work with any form of addiction is to first relate to it, and to discover that the best way out of craving is to go into it.  Dr. Brewer is a rare scientist who joins the best of the West with the best of the East, augmenting the discoveries of the wisdom traditions with contemporary science.

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Jud Brewer MD PhD is a thought leader in the field of habit change and the “science of self-mastery”, having combined over 20 years of experience with mindfulness training with his scientific research therein. He is the Director of Research and Innovation at the Mindfulness Center and associate professor in psychiatry at the School of Medicine at Brown University. He also is a research affiliate at MIT. Dr. Brewer has developed and tested novel mindfulness programs for habit change, including both in-person and app-based treatments for smoking, emotional eating, and anxiety. He has published numerous peer-reviewed articles and book chapters, trained US Olympic coaches, and his work has been featured on 60 Minutes, TED (4th most viewed talk of 2016, with 10+ Million views), and others. Dr. Brewer founded MindSciences to move his discoveries of clinical evidence behind mindfulness for anxiety, eating, smoking and other behavior change into the hands of consumers (see www.drjud.com for more information). He is the author of The Craving Mind: from cigarettes to smartphones to love, why we get hooked and how we can break bad habits (New Haven: Yale University Press, 2017). Follow him on twitter @judbrewer.

Join Andrew and lucid dream author and researcher Clare Johnson in this deep dive into the world of lucidity. This wide-ranging conversation begins with a close look at the promise and peril of fear, how to work with it, and how to use it for growth. The discussion then moves into a look at dream sex, dream violence, and a “code of ethics” in terms of how to relate to dream characters – which are essentially aspects of your own mind. Dreams are the “children” of your mind, treat them with love. Clare then shares her remarkable experiences with lucidity in deep dreamless sleep, and the luminosity that shines below all dreams. She advises us to look for the beauty and luminosity in our dreams and in our life, and to move towards that light. The conversation then turns to a discussion of how lucid dreaming not only leads to lucid living, but to lucid dying. The nocturnal practices have removed all fear of death for Clare, and she shares why. The discussion closes with a look at how to work with discouragement, and Clare’s “go-to” methods for inducing lucidity. Dr. Johnson is a shining star in the world of lucid dreaming, and this conversation will show you why.

Join Andrew and the distinguished scholar-practitioner B. Alan Wallace for a truly remarkable conversation. Dr. Wallace is renowned for his incisive clarity and rigorous intellect, and this is fully evident as he cascades over a tremendous amount of material. The discussion begins with a deep dive into the central meditations of shamatha and vipashyana, and how both of these practices are integral to lucid dreaming. Alan goes so far as to say that dream yoga is the practice of vipashyana, and further situates dream yoga within the Madhyamaka (Middle Way School) and Dzogchen. The discussion then addresses the key question: what does it mean to say reality is a dream? In answering this, Dr. Wallace levels a strong attack against materialism, and the perverted science that supports this wrong view. Insights from psychology, philosophy of mind, physics, cosmology, and many schools of Buddhism are delivered with high-velocity and humor (offering neologisms like cognoscopy – “to scope the mind”), illuminating vast swaths of terrain. Alan speaks of the importance of “authentic Buddhism,” the need to honor tradition, and criticizes the popular but misguided new school of “Secular Buddhism.” Because of Alan’s encyclopedic knowledge, this interview lets him loose, with Andrew allowing him the space to run free. The result is an absolute feast of wisdom, supported by a lifetime of extensive scholarship and deep spiritual practice.

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Alan Wallace is a prominent voice in the emerging discussion between contemporary Buddhist thinkers and scientists who question the materialist presumptions of their 20th-century paradigms. He left his college studies in 1971 and moved to Dharamsala, India to study Tibetan Buddhism, medicine and language. He was ordained by H.H. the Dalai Lama, and over fourteen years as a monk he studied with and translated for several of the generation’s greatest lamas. In 1984 he resumed his Western education at Amherst College where he studied physics and the philosophy of science. He then applied that background to his PhD research at Stanford on the interface between Buddhism and Western science and philosophy. Since 1987 he has been a frequent translator and contributor to meetings between the Dalai Lama and prominent scientists, and he has written and translated more than 40 books. Along with his scholarly work, Alan is regarded as one of the West’s preeminent meditation teachers and retreat guides. He is the founder and director of the Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies and is the motivating force behind the develop of the Center for Contemplative Research in Tuscany, Italy.

Join Andrew Holecek and Roger Walsh MD, PH.D as they discuss a wide range of provocative topics that circumambulate the lucidity principle. They begin with a deep dive into some of the shadow elements that accompany lucid dreaming, and spiritual practice altogether, including spiritual bypassing, nihilism, cosmological dualism, and the “fundamental flaw fallacy.” 

Roger shares his experience as a psychiatrist and meditation instructor, and the traps that he fell into – and how he got out. Lucid dreaming, the practice of illusory form, and spirituality in general can easily slip into devaluing form, instead of transcending but including form.

Dr. Walsh then turns to addiction, stating that we’re “addicts by nature,” which dovetails into our unconscious addiction to non-lucidity. The conversation then turns to the extraordinary power of diurnal and nocturnal meditation, and the “trim tab” phenomenon of working with subtle levels of mind. The discussion addresses the tenets of “non-foundationalism,” wake-centricity, and other forms of absolutistic thinking that limit our view of mind and reality. Powerful spiritual techniques lead to wisdom, and applied wisdom expresses itself as compassion – or it is not genuine wisdom. 

Roger shares how his lifelong study and practice helps him respond to social and global challenges, and how he walks the talk. This remarkable interview ends with a discussion about the inherent goodness in the world, the utter immediacy of liberation, and how we merely need to open the aperture of awareness to reveal the light (lucidity) that is in everything – including our dreams.

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Roger Walsh MD., Ph.D. DHL graduated from Queensland University with degrees in psychology, physiology, neuroscience and medicine, before coming to the United States as a Fulbright scholar. He is currently a professor of psychiatry, philosophy, anthropology, and religious studies at the University of California. His research interests include psychological wellbeing, wisdom, and love, practices such as meditation that foster them, and how we can best respond to the social and global challenges of our time. He is a student, teacher and researcher of several contemplative practices. 

Roger’s research and writings have received over twenty national and international awards while his teaching has received eight awards, and he is a University of California Distinguished Writer as well as its Outstanding Physician. His books include Essential Spirituality: The Seven Central Practices, Paths Beyond Ego, as well as The World of Shamanism and the modestly titled book, The World’s Great Wisdom. He was formerly a world record holder in high diving and a circus acrobat, and recently graduated from the San Francisco Comedy College and had an extremely brief and unsuccessful career as a standup comedian. For more information, see www.drrogerwalsh.com