For the month of August, we’re highlighting episodes from the 2024-2025 season of Energy Policy Now. We’ll be back with new content, and a new season, on September the 9th.

Virtual power plants can help electric grid operators address supply shortages and reliability concerns, but policy support is needed.

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(This episode was recorded on October 15, 2024.)

The U.S. electrical grid is under growing stress, raising concern that recent widescale power outages may signal more grid challenges to come. In recent years, electricity demand has grown at an accelerating pace while, at the same time, power supply has tightened as existing power plants have retired and grid operators have struggled to bring new sources of power online.

Yet one promising solution to the grid’s challenges may already be in place, if grid operators and regulators can figure out how to use it to full advantage. ‘Virtual power plants’ can combine small, distributed energy resources such as rooftop solar and demand response into a single, virtual whole that grid operators can deploy like a traditional powerplant. VPPs hold the promise of delivering large amounts of readily available and reliable energy services, if a number of regulatory and technological challenges can be overcome.

On the podcast Ryan Hledik, a principal with electricity market consultancy The Brattle Group, explores the potential of virtual power plants. He explains how VPPs work, discusses hurdles to their development, and considers policy solutions to speed their growth.

Ryan Hledik is a principal with electricity market consultancy The Brattle Group.

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Closing the Climate Finance Gap: A Proposal for a New Green Investment Protocol https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/closing-the-climate-finance-gap-a-proposal-for-a-new-green-investment-protocol/

The Untapped Potential of “Repurposed Energy” https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/the-untapped-potential-of-repurposed-energy/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For the month of August, we’re highlighting episodes from the 2024-2025 season of Energy Policy Now. We’ll be back with new content, and a new season, on September the 9th.

Former Republican U.S. congressman Bob Inglis offers a conservative perspective on climate solutions in discussion with Penn climatologist Michael Mann.

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(This episode was recorded on February 13, 2025, during Penn Energy Week)

Politically conservative and concerned about climate change?

In this special episode of the Energy Policy Now podcast, Penn climatologist Michael Mann talks with Bob Inglis, former Republican Congressman from South Carolina and current executive director of RepublicEN.org, about bridging the partisan climate divide.

In a wide-ranging conversation recorded live during Energy Week at Penn 2025 at the University of Pennsylvania, Mann and Inglis discuss a conservative view on climate change, how conservative messaging on climate has evolved over time, and how common solutions might be found in an era of partisan climate divide. Inglis also offers his view on carbon pricing and strategies to reign in carbon emissions in the U.S.

The conversation is moderated by Sanya Carley, faculty director of the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy.

Bob Inglis is a former U.S. representative for South Carolina’s 4th congressional district. He is the executive director of RepublicanEn.org at George Mason University.

Michael Mann is director of the Center for Science, Sustainability and the Media at the University of Pennsylvania.

Sanya Carley is the Mark Alan Hughes faculty director of the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy.

Important note on the conversation: Due to a technical problem, the first two minutes of Bob Inglis’ conversation are difficult to hear (from 5:40 to 7:40). We’ve transcribed those two minutes in the show notes, below, to make it easier to follow along. A full transcript of this and all Energy Policy Now podcasts is available on the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy website.

Bob Inglis (5:40): Yeah, so for my first six years in Congress I said that climate change is nonsense. All I knew was that Al Gore was for it. And as much as I represented Greenville-Spartanburg South Carolina, that was the end of the inquiry. Okay, pretty ignorant. But that’s the way it was my first six years.

Out of Congress six years, as you just heard, doing commercial real estate law again and then, had the opportunity to run for the same seat again before, our son had just turned 18, so he was voting for the first time, and he came to me and he said, dad, I’ll vote for you. But you’re going to clean up your act on the environment. His four sisters agreed, his mother agreed. New constituency, you know. So you got to respond to those people who can change the locks on the doors to your house, you know. So, very important to respond to these people.

And so that was step one of a three step metamorphosis. Step two was going to Antarctica with the [House of Representatives] Science Committee and seeing the evidence in the iceberg drillings. Step three was another Science Committee trip and, um, really a spiritual awakening which seems improbable, right, on a godless Science Committee trip, because we all know that all scientists are godless. Right? Well, apparently not. Because this Aussie climate scientist was showing me the glories of the Great Barrier Reef. I could see he was worshipping God in what he was showing me. You know, St. Francis of Assisi supposedly said “preach the gospel at all times. If necessary use words.” So Scott Heron, this Aussie climate scientist who’s now become a very dear friend was doing that. I could see it in his eyes, it was written all over his face. It was in his excitement about what he was showing me. He was clearly worshipping God. So I knew we shared a world view. Forty words were spoken. 

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Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Though today’s energy transition is often framed as new, it follows patterns we’ve seen before. Cutler Cleveland of Boston University’s Institute for Global Sustainability explores the historical context of today’s shift. 

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Today’s shift to carbon-free power is commonly called “the energy transition,” yet the label can suggest that this is the first, or only, transformation of its kind. Throughout history, societies have moved from one dominant energy source to another, with each transformation bringing profound economic, social, and environmental change. 

On the podcast, we explore how today’s energy transition compares to those of the past, while noting that—despite decades of investment and policy support—we’re still in the early stages of moving toward a net-zero carbon system. Why is this transition taking so long? Why does it feel more politically and socially charged than previous ones? And are our current anxieties about energy jobs, community impacts, and planetary livability really new?

Cutler Cleveland, associate director of Boston University’s Institute for Global Sustainability, brings a historical lens to energy systems and explores what makes this moment in energy history both familiar and unprecedented.

Cutler Cleveland is a professor in the Department of Earth & Environment at Boston University, and associate director of the university’s Institute for Global Sustainability.

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Subsea Sabotage: Protecting Energy Infrastructure from Hostile Aggression https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/subsea-sabotage-protecting-energy-infrastructure-from-hostile-aggression/

Impact of Solar Lighting Kits on the Lives of the Poor https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/impact-of-solar-lighting-kits-on-the-lives-of-the-poor/ 

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Thousands of clean energy projects are waiting to connect to the grid. How many will make it through, and will it be soon enough to keep the grid reliable?

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Electricity demand in the U.S. is rising fast, fueled by the rapid growth of AI data centers and other power-hungry technologies. At the same time, many fossil fuel power plants are retiring, putting added pressure on the grid to maintain reliability.

To meet this challenge, clean energy and battery storage projects are lining up to connect to the grid. The queue now holds more than twice the capacity of all power plants currently in operation.

But getting these projects online is proving difficult. The interconnection process, which evaluates and connects new power projects to the grid, has become a major bottleneck. It is overwhelmed by the sheer number of proposed projects and further slowed by permitting challenges, supply chain delays, and uncertainty around federal incentives. Reforms to the interconnection process are underway, but it is yet to be seen whether they will move quickly enough to make a difference.

RMI’s Sarah Toth Kotwis explores the technical and regulatory barriers to bringing new energy online, and what it will take connect new energy projects quickly and reliably.

Sarah Toth Kotwis is a senior associate on the Clean Competitive Grids team at RMI.

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The Future of Electricity Demand in the AI Era https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/commentary/podcast/the-future-of-electricity-demand-in-the-ai-era/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

BloombergNEF’s Derrick Flakoll discusses the outlook for U.S. clean energy development under the House version of Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill.”

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On May 22, the House of Representatives passed its version of what President Trump has dubbed the “Big Beautiful Bill,” a sweeping budget package addressing taxation, federal spending, and the debt ceiling. Now headed to the Senate, a revised version is expected to emerge by early July.

The House bill proposes deep funding cuts to programs like Medicaid and extends the Trump-era tax cuts from 2017. For the clean energy sector, however, the most consequential provisions are those targeting the Inflation Reduction Act. As written, the legislation would significantly curtail tax credits for renewable energy projects and the domestic manufacturing base that supports them. Incentives for electric vehicles and EV charging infrastructure, as well as battery storage, hydrogen, and nuclear power would also be sharply reduced or eliminated altogether.

Derrick Flakoll, U.S. Policy Expert at BloombergNEF, examines what this could mean for the future of clean energy in the United States. BloombergNEF recently released an analysis projecting the impacts of the House bill on clean energy growth and investment. Flakoll outlines the report’s findings, including the resilience of clean energy markets without IRA tax credits, which sectors face the greatest risks, and how the proposed “Foreign Entity of Concern” provisions could further complicate project development.

He also considers how the Senate might alter the legislation and whether any of the IRA’s clean energy incentives are likely to remain intact.

Derrick Flakoll is Policy Expert for the United States and Canada at BloombergNEF

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Can California’s Emissions Market Survive Past 2030 (Podcast) https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/commentary/podcast/can-californias-emissions-market-survive-past-2030/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As renewable power grows, land use decisions will influence its environmental impact.

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Decarbonizing the electric grid will require a dramatic expansion of renewable energy by mid-century, and significantly more land dedicated to clean power. But where and how that buildout occurs will shape whether the environmental benefits of renewables are fully realized or come at a high cost to ecosystems, farmland, and communities.

Grace Wu of the Spatial Climate Solutions Lab at UC Santa Barbara and Jonathan Thompson, research director at Harvard Forest, examine the tension between rapid renewable energy expansion and conscientious land use. Wu, who has co-authored recent reports on the environmental impacts of clean energy siting policies, explores strategies for minimizing impacts while ensuring energy remains reliable and affordable. Thompson, whose research quantifies the effects of land use on forest ecosystems, discusses the push-and-pull dynamic unfolding in Massachusetts, where solar development has resulted in real losses of forests and farmland, and where new siting models are emerging.

The two also explore how incentives and regulations influence land use decisions, and how policy can reduce land impacts while supporting clean power development.

Grace Wu is an assistant professor in the Environmental Studies program at the University of California Santa Barbara and leads the university’s Spatial Climate Solutions Lab.

Jonathan Thompson is senior ecologist and research director at Harvard Forest.

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Has Europe’s Emissions Trading Scheme Take Away a Country’s Ability to Reduce Emissions?

https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/has-europes-emissions-trading-scheme-taken-away-a-countrys-ability-to-reduce-emissions/

The Untapped Potential of ‘Repurposed Energy’

https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/the-untapped-potential-of-repurposed-energy/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As electrical grid operators move to fast-track gas projects, consumer and environmental advocates raise red flags.

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The U.S. electricity grid is undergoing a dramatic transformation. As coal plants retire, wind, solar, and battery storage now dominate the pipeline of new power projects. Yet in recent months, some policymakers and grid operators have called for a new wave of natural gas plants to meet rising electricity demand from AI data centers and industrial growth.

Supporters argue that gas offers a fast, reliable solution. Critics see a costly, backward-looking move that undermines long-term climate and affordability goals. Too often missing from this debate is the voice of the consumer—the people ultimately footing the bill.

This episode explores the consumer perspective on our rapidly evolving grid with two guests with deep experience at the intersection of grid policy and public interest. Patrick Cicero is the former consumer advocate for Pennsylvania. John Quigley is a senior fellow at the Kleinman Center and former secretary of Pennsylvania’s Department of Environmental Protection. Together, they discuss what the energy transition means for ratepayers—and the policies needed to ensure a clean, reliable, and equitable grid.

Patrick Cicero is chief counsel at the Pennsylvania Utility Law Project and former consumer advocate for the state of Pennsylvania.

John Quigley is a senior fellow at the Kleinman Center and a former secretary of Pennsylvania’s Department of Environmental Protection.

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Has Europe’s Emissions Trading Scheme Taken Away a Country’s Ability to Reduce Emissions? 

https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/has-europes-emissions-trading-scheme-taken-away-a-countrys-ability-to-reduce-emissions/

Fossil Foolishness

https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/commentary/blog/fossil-foolishness/

 Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Lindiwe Majele Sibanda, chair of global food security research network CGIAR, on adapting agriculture for climate and food security.

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Global agriculture changed dramatically during the 20th century as small, traditional farms were replaced by large-scale, monoculture farming in many parts of the world. This shift led to a dramatic increase in food production, helping to feed a global population that today exceeds 8 billion.

Yet the revolution in agriculture has created a new set of challenges. Modern farming is more resource-intensive than ever, requiring substantial investments in machinery and a heavy reliance on chemical inputs like synthetic fertilizers and pesticides. These shifts have introduced new economic risks for farmers, who can struggle to keep up with rising input costs and volatile markets. Meanwhile, the widespread cultivation of bulk cash crops has often come at the expense of soil health, crop diversity, and the nutritional quality of the food we grow and consume.

On the podcast, Dr. Lindiwe Majele Sibanda—professor of agriculture at the University of Pretoria in South Africa, cattle farmer in Zimbabwe, and board chair of the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR)—discusses current efforts to make agriculture more resilient and sustainable. These include the revival of traditional crops, regenerative soil management techniques, and innovations aimed at reducing reliance on fossil fuels. Sibanda also examines how such practices can support environmental and climate goals while improving farmer livelihoods and strengthening long-term food security.

Lindiwe Majele Sibanda is board chair of the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR).

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Closing the Climate Finance Gap: A Proposal for a New Green Investment Protocol https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/closing-the-climate-finance-gap-a-proposal-for-a-new-green-investment-protocol/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ambitious climate policies may overlook practical constraints. Kleinman Center Visiting Scholar Niall Mac Dowell explores what deliverable paths to net zero might require.

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The Earth’s average temperature surpassed the 1.5°C threshold for the first time in 2024—a milestone driven in part by El Niño, but also a stark warning about our broader climate trajectory. While temperatures may moderate slightly in 2025, the world remains far from taking the decisive action needed to avoid the most severe impacts of climate change.

The obstacles to meaningful progress are complex, spanning economics, politics at local and global levels, and questions of technological scalability. The good news is that these are solvable challenges. Yet, despite our collective capacity, we’ve struggled to overcome the headwinds that continue to slow decisive climate action.

On the podcast, Niall Mac Dowell, visiting scholar at the Kleinman Center and professor of Future Energy Systems at Imperial College London, takes stock of where we are now. His work focuses on the transition to a low-carbon economy, with recent research exploring the feasibility of clean energy development projections and the role negative emissions could play in achieving net-zero goals. He shares his perspective on what it will take to move more decisively toward a sustainable energy future.

Niall Mac Dowell is Professor of Future Energy Systems at Imperial College London.

The official transcript for this episode is available on the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy website: https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/commentary/podcast/ 

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 Closing the Climate Finance Gap: A Proposal for a New Green Investment Protocol https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/closing-the-climate-finance-gap-a-proposal-for-a-new-green-investment-protocol/

Climate Action in the Age of Great Power Rivalry: What Geopolitics Means for Climate https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/climate-action-in-the-age-of-great-power-rivalry-what-geopolitics-means-for-the-climate/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Danny Cullenward, vice chair of California’s Independent Emissions Market Advisory Committee, explores the legal and policy challenges that threaten the future of the state’s carbon cap-and-trade market.

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For more than a decade, California’s cap-and-trade program has been a key component of the state’s broader efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and achieve a net-zero carbon economy by 2045.

Yet the future of California’s cap-and-trade program is uncertain. The program is currently authorized only through 2030, and significant debate exists over whether its administrator, the California Air Resources Board, has the legal authority to extend it beyond that date.

Danny Cullenward, a senior fellow with the Kleinman Center and vice chair of California’s Independent Emissions Market Advisory Committee, explores the political and legal questions surrounding the program’s future. He also explains how uncertainty about the program’s longevity could slow investments in clean infrastructure and limit the market’s effectiveness in driving down the state’s climate emissions.

Danny Cullenward is a senior fellow with the Kleinman Center, and the vice chair of California’s Independent Emissions Market Advisory Committee.

The official transcript for this episode is available on the Kleinman Center for Energy Policy website: https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/commentary/podcast/ 

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Has Europe’s Emissions Trading Scheme Taken Away a Country’s Ability to Reduce Emissions? https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/research/publications/has-europes-emissions-trading-scheme-taken-away-a-countrys-ability-to-reduce-emissions/

Energy Policy Now is produced by The Kleinman Center for Energy Policy at the University of Pennsylvania. For all things energy policy, visit kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.