A conversation about Duchamp, Michael Jackson, the allure of the Renaissance in the age of Instagram, and more.

In the debut episode of David Zwirner’s new podcast, world-renowned artist Jeff Koons talks with Luke Syson, Chairman of European Sculpture and Decorative Arts at The Metropolitan Museum of Art. Their far-ranging exchange touches on creative impulse and resisting elitism; polychromy and Pop culture; Plato’s cave and the iPhone; evolution and reality TV.

View Koons’s work at the Met Breuer, New York in “Like Life: Sculpture, Color, and the Body (1300–Now),” curated by Syson and Sheena Wagstaff, Leonard A. Lauder Chairman of Modern and Contemporary Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, through July 22, 2018.