South Africa’s former minister of international relations, Naledi Pandor, speaks to us about the why South Africa took Israel to court for genocide. We also speak about why the world has still not yet intervened decisively and has allowed Israel to continue its onslaught in Gaza, whether international institutions will break down under a new Trump presidency and in the aftermath of Israel’s impunity, changes in global power away from the North towards a more multipolar reality, and what can be done to stop Israel.

Pandor grew up in a political family and as a child she was exiled from South Africa to go to Lesotho, Zambia and the United Kingdom, where her family contributed to South Africa’s freedom struggle. She draws on that experience and from her experience as being part of South Africa’s democratic government for three decades to tell us the challenges that lie ahead for Palestinian liberation and offers advice on how that road can be trodden.