Nick is tired, Joe is hangry, so in a slightly shorter than normal episode, we reflect on the recent interview with dave steell about leadership. We talk about the problems of over spiritualising what happens in church, confusing unity with uniformity and whether the most important tool is empathy. Also, an unusual fact about orchids and Nick receives an alarming email from his co-host.

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Mentioned in this episode:

• Orchid -etymology
• Storytelling with Alan Moore