What happens to your own humanity when you choose to truly see the humanity in others?

In this episode, Jesuit priest Father Rafael Garcia joins Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore what it means to see through eyes of love—especially in a world that often teaches us to view immigrants, the incarcerated, and the marginalized with fear or indifference. Drawing from his work at the U.S.–Mexico border, his Cuban refugee roots, and stories of deep pastoral presence, Father Rafael shares how radical hospitality transforms both giver and receiver. Carmen reflects on her own awakening to shared humanity while serving in a women’s prison, paralleling Rafael’s shift from architectural comfort to spiritual solidarity. Together, they illuminate how true vision—grounded in Jesuit and Franciscan compassion—invites us not into pity, but into kinship and mutual transformation.

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What would change if you believed that grace was at the center of your life?

In this episode, Brian and Carmen are joined by longtime friend and public theologian Nadia Bolz-Weber for a conversation about the radical, healing power of grace—and how it reshapes our vision of ourselves, others, and the divine.

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In this opening to Season 8, Learning How to See returns with understanding how to see with the eyes of love. On this season, Brian McLaren introduces his new co-host Dr. Carmen Acevedo Butcher—a scholar, translator, contemplative teacher, and birdwatching chocolate lover—and together, they launch the theme for this season: Seeing Through Eyes of Love.

This episode weaves together personal storytelling, embodied spiritual practice, and reflection to explore how love can transform the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world.

Your Practice for the Week:

Once a day, notice something you’re seeing with judgment or indifference. Pause. Shift your gaze to see it with the eyes of love. Then try to “telescope out”:

See yourself seeing with love.

See others doing the same.

Envision Divine Love witnessing it all.

Resources & Mentions:

Dorothee Sölle – Death by Bread Alone

Howard Thurman – Mysticism and the Experience of Love

Brother Lawrence – The Practice of the Presence of God

Meister Eckhart – on the “eye within me”

Brian referenced the following:

Richard Rohr’s Cosmic Egg – a framework of nested stories: My Story, Our Story, The Story (This is located in his book, The Wisdom Pattern.)

1 Corinthians 13 – closing reading on the nature of love

Can we cultivate a relationship with the natural world which mirrors the care and concern we would offer a dear friend? How do you foster hope in the midst of an unruly world?

In this conversation, Brian McLaren is prompted by CAC Staff members Corey Wayne and Mike Petrow, to reflect on his journey from pastor to writer and public speaker. Brian discusses the interconnectedness of nature and spirituality, the need for respect and boundaries in our relationship with the natural world, and the urgency of advocating for environmental issues in light of current political and ecological challenges. The three discuss the historical context of the Desert Fathers and Mothers, the inescapability of our current crises, and the various responses individuals have to these challenges (fight, flight, freeze, flock). They explore the importance of community and connection in times of despair, emphasizing the role of love and nature in cultivating hope and resilience. The discussion leaves us asking how we can be better friends to the earth and to each other amidst the complexities of modern life.

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How important is community in facing the climate crisis? What kinds of communities are helping you to live differently and find hope?

In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of a visionary. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Philip Clayton to discuss the urgent need for a shift in mindset, the transformative power of community, and the vital role of faith in building an ecological civilization.

About the guest: 

Philip Clayton is a renowned scholar whose work spans philosophy, theology, and science, with a particular focus on ecotheology, exploring the intersection of climate science, ethics, religion, and social philosophy. Holding the Ingraham Chair at Claremont School of Theology and directing the PhD program in comparative theologies and philosophies, he has also taught at prestigious institutions like Yale, Williams College, and Harvard, publishing extensively with over two dozen books and 350 articles. Beyond academia, Clayton is the President of the Institute for Ecological Civilization (EcoCiv.org), working internationally to promote sustainable solutions, and also heads the Institute for the Postmodern Development of China, advocating for ecological civilization through various initiatives. When not immersed in scholarly pursuits, he enjoys cycling, refereeing soccer, and spending time outdoors with his family and dog.

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Books mentioned during the interview:

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We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

How can you apply Indigenous values like harmony, respect, and accountability to your own life and community? 

In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of an Indigenous Person. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Randy and Edith Woodley to discuss the importance of rediscovering Indigenous values to create a more harmonious relationship with the Earth and all its inhabitants. Randy and Edith Woodley recently released their book, Journey to Eloheh: How Indigenous Values Lead Us to Harmony and Well-Being.

About the guests: 

Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley is an activist, scholar, author, teacher, wisdom-keeper, and Cherokee descendant recognized by the Keetoowah Band who speaks on justice, faith, the earth, and Indigenous realities. He is the author of numerous books, including Becoming Rooted and Shalom and the Community of Creation. He and his wife, Edith, co-sustain Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds outside Portland, Oregon.

Edith Woodley is the cofounder and co-sustainer of Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. She was raised on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming and is a member of the Eastern Shoshone tribe. Woodley has a degree from Bacone College and mentors others in the spirituality of the land, farming methods, and seed-keeping. She is a leader in the Decolonizing with Badass Indigenous Grandmas cohort. She and her husband, Randy Woodley, have four grown children and six grandchildren.

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Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? 

We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

 What might it look like to live out a Franciscan vision of kinship in your daily life?  

In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of a Franciscan. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Sr. Joan Brown and Michelle Dunne to explore the essence of Franciscan values and their relevance in today's world. They discuss the importance of community and kinship, translating faith into action, and the role of education and rituals in fostering a deeper connection with creation. This conversation underscores the need for collective action in addressing environmental challenges, the transformative power of prayer and contemplation, as well as confronting historical injustices and the call to embrace love and kinship in all aspects of life. 

About the guests: 

Michele Dunne OFS is a professed Secular Franciscan. Before coming to FAN, her career focused on the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. From 2006 until 2021, she headed programs focused on peace, human rights, and democracy in the Middle East at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Atlantic Council. Before that, she served for nearly 20 years in the U.S. Department of State, including assignments in Jerusalem and Cairo. She holds a Ph.D. from Georgetown University and lives in Washington DC with her husband. 

Joan Brown is a Franciscan Sister from the Rochester, MN community, living and working in Albuquerque, New Mexico where she serves as the Executive Director of New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light (NM IPL). NM IPL is part of a national faith-based organization working to address climate justice. Originally from a small family farm in Kansas that still operates, her life has always revolved around love of and care for creation and social justice. Her BA from St. Mary College, Leavenworth, KS was in literature and journalism and she holds a master’s degree in Religion Philosophy and Cosmology from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Climate justice work has been a focus for decades and led her to participate with Franciscans International at UN COP meetings including Paris in 2015. She was one of twelve recipients of the 2015 Whitehouse Champions of Change award for faith leaders working on climate change. She has published articles and essays in national and local publications. Gardening, writing, baking (and sharing food), camping, hiking, community life, and contemplating and being with diverse kin in the natural world bring her joy, grounding and beauty. 

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Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? 

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We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

What story do you tell yourself about the interconnectedness of nature and culture? 

In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the lens of a historian of religions. Brian McLaren is joined in conversation by Mary Evelyn Tucker, a leading voice in the field of religion and ecology. Together, they discuss the importance of cultural history, the challenges of interreligious dialogue, and the urgent need for a new story that integrates science and spirituality. They also explore the life and legacy of Thomas Berry, a visionary Catholic priest, who revolutionized our understanding of nature, culture, and the universe. Mary also shares her personal journey, her partnership with John Grim, and the profound impact of Berry’s teachings on her life.  

About the guest: 

Mary Evelyn Tucker is co-director with John Grim of the Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology. They are affiliated faculty with the Yale Center for Environmental Justice at the Yale School of the Environment. They organized 10 conferences on World Religions and Ecology at Harvard and were series editors for the 10 resulting volumes from Harvard. Her research area is Asian religions and she co-edited Confucianism and Ecology, Buddhism and Ecology, and Hinduism and Ecology. 

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Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? 

Email us: [email protected] 

Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail 

We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

What does it mean to grieve the crisis facing our planet? 

In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the lens of a mystic. Brian McLaren sits down with Douglas E. Christie to discuss his work in the emerging field of contemplative studies, its relevance to our current ecological crisis, and the importance of acknowledging and processing ecological grief. Together, they explore the historical and contemporary significance of contemplative practices and underscore their role in confronting the "dark night of the world", helping us to foster a deeper connection with the Earth. 

About the guest: 

Douglas E. Christie, Ph.D. is Professor Emeritus of Theological Studies at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He is the author of The Word in The Desert: Scripture and the Quest for Holiness in Early Christian Monasticism, The Blue Sapphire of the Mind: Notes for a Contemplative Ecology, and The Insurmountable Darkness of Love: Mysticism, Loss, and the Common Life. He has been awarded fellowships from the Luce Foundation, the Lilly Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. From 2013-2015 he served as Co-director of the Casa de la Mateada study abroad program in Córdoba, Argentina, a faith-based program rooted in the Jesuit vision of education for solidarity. He lives with his family in Los Angeles. 

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Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? 

Email us: [email protected] 

Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail 

We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024. 

What is it about poetry that allows it to hold both beauty and disruption, and even inspire change? 

In this episode, Brian McLaren explores the power of poetry to help us understand and grieve for the natural world while also appreciating its beauty. He talks with poets Pádraig Ó Tuama and Drew Jackson about the importance of seeing nature holistically, and how poetry can help us grapple with the tension between destruction and renewal. The episode explores how poems can inspire action and change and encourages you, the listener, to write your own poems, especially haiku, to practice seeing nature differently.

About the guests:

Drew Jackson is a poet, speaker, and public theologian. He is author of God Speaks Through Wombs: Poems on God’s Unexpected Coming and Touch the Earth: Poems on The Way. His work has appeared in Oneing from the Center for Action and Contemplation, The Isolation Journals with Suleika Jaouad, Made for Pax, The Journal from the Centre for Public Christianity, Fathom Magazine, and other publications. Drew received his B.A. in Political Science from the Univ. of Chicago and his M.A. in Theology from Fuller Theological Seminary. He currently works as the Director of Mission Integration for the Center for Action and Contemplation, and lives in Brooklyn, NY with his wife and daughters.

Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet and a theologian from Ireland whose poetry and prose centre around themes of language, power, conflict and religion. His work has won acclaim in circles of poetry, politics, psychotherapy and conflict analysis. His formal qualifications (PhD, MTh and BA) cover creative writing, literary criticism and theology. Alongside this, he pursued vocational training in conflict analysis, specialising in groupwork. His published work is in the fields of poetry, anthology, essay, memoir, theology and conflict. A new volume of poetry — Kitchen Hymns — is forthcoming from CHEERIO in mid 2024. 

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We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.