How do you help someone see their own work more clearly without breaking their spirit? In this episode of our "Great Coaches" series, Kelly talks with her editor Andy Ward about the delicate art of literary coaching—knowing when to push a writer toward uncomfortable truths and when to step back and let them find their own way. Through stories about working with David Sedaris, George Saunders and the posthumous publication of When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi, Andy reveals how great editing is really about asking the right questions, building trust through close attention and helping writers discover what their book is truly about. This conversation covers the psychology of creative partnership, the vulnerability of sharing early drafts and why the best coaches never impose their vision but instead help others see their own more clearly. It's a "must listen" for anyone interested in writing. (Previously aired)

Books mentioned in this episode:

• Naked by David Sedaris
• Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders
• Tenth of December by George Saunders
• Fleishman Is in Trouble by Taffy Brodesser-Akner
• The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
• To Obama by Jeanne Marie Laskas
• When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi
• North Woods by Daniel Mason
• The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan

Kelly shares a beautiful eulogy from listener Jody Antypas which she wrote for her Greek immigrant father George—a man who came to America with one suitcase and built a life from scratch. From his wartime childhood to becoming "Pappou" the pancake-making, Monopoly-playing, sand castle-building grandfather, George's story will make you laugh and cry in equal measure. It's a reminder of why immigrants have always been such a gift to this country, and why the small moments with the people we love matter most. (Previously aired)

Somewhere between what we're taught and what we actually believe, there's a gap—and someone is always ready to fill it. Kelly sits down again with America's government teacher, Sharon McMahon, recorded live on stage at the Aspen Ideas Festival, to trace the invisible architecture of how a country teaches itself what's true. They talk about the seduction of confidence and the strange new authority of the comment section, circling a bigger question: whether the most dangerous thing in a democracy is ignorance, or charisma without accountability. It's a conversation about the discomfort required to actually think for yourself, and what happens to a nation when no one can agree on the story it's telling.

Check out Sharon's book which Kelly mentioned: The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement

Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what a new series on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker is all about, the Sacred Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. 

In this episode, Jen sits down with writer, poet, and community-builder Jess Janz to talk about the social experiment that grew into the phenomenon known as Dinner With Strangers. What began as a gathering around a table with a few curious questions has now welcomed more than a thousand people into conversations that move past small talk and into the territory we all secretly long for: belonging.

Come find your Sacred Yes with Jen. Follow and listen to For the Love with Jen Hatmaker wherever you get your podcasts.

Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Geraldine Brooks set out to profile a government bureaucrat and found something closer to fiction: Jarod Koopman, a fit, tattooed IRS agent who teaches jiu-jitsu three mornings a week, built his own house (including a wine cellar because he also happens to be a certified sommelier), and has personally helped return billions of dollars to American taxpayers while freeing children from exploitation and dismantling criminal empires hiding behind cryptocurrency. Kelly and Geraldine talk about why Jarod turned down the kind of salary the private sector would gladly pay him, and what it costs a country when talented, mission-driven people walk away from public service. This fifth and final episode of our Unsung series is a conversation about what fairness in America actually requires to survive—and why we should be paying much closer attention to the people making sure it does.

This week, a quiet goodbye. Kelly remembers Glen Hansard—musician, actor, and the beating heart of the lovely independent film Once—who died this week at 56. It's a short reflection on presence, authenticity and making art against the odds. Raise a glass.

This is the second clip from Kelly's conversation with Sharon McMahon — former public school teacher, America's unofficial government teacher, and someone who has spent years reminding the rest of us that we've been here before. This week she tells the story of a woman named Septima Clark, who was fired for her civil rights work, went on to teach some of the most consequential figures in American history, and arrived at the end of her long life with a belief that feels almost impossible to hold right now — and maybe more necessary than ever.

Check out Sharon's book The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593541677?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

The Consumer Price Index determines your grandmother's Social Security, your SNAP benefits, your divorce settlement, and — historically, at least — whether the president keeps his job. It is also, according to British journalist and novelist John Lanchester, intellectually thrilling. In the fourth episode of our Unsung series, Kelly talks with the writer The Economist called "a down-to-earth and witty guide to the most complicated ideas of our time" about what it means to live in a country that counts everything — and what happens when we start to lose faith in the numbers.

If you haven't yet, pick up Michael Lewis's Who Is Government? and John Lanchester's new novel Look What You Made Me Do (Norton, May 2025).

To connect with Kelly and get a list of her weekly takeaways, join Kelly's free Substack.

Nobody calls it therapy. That's why it works. Kelly's husband Edward rides bikes several times a week, and keeps coming home saying the conversations are deeper and richer than Kelly might expect. This week, a piece of writing started circulating among cyclists everywhere that explains exactly why - and we thought it was worth sharing. Written by Anthony Walsh (host of The Roadman Cycling Podcast), it's about what happens when a group of men show up in a parking lot at eight in the morning and head out together, shoulder to shoulder, for a three hour bike ride. This one is for every group that shows up, week after week, without quite knowing why it matters — until it does.

Sharon McMahon is a former public school teacher who now teaches civics to over a million people on the internet. Kelly caught up with her at the Aspen Ideas Festival, and this clip is about something that feels urgent right now: the difference between just knowing more and actually doing something — and why cynicism, left unchecked, might be the most dangerous force in a democracy.

Special thanks to the Aspen Ideas Festival where this episode was recorded - especiallyTricia Johnson, Kara Stein, Sophia Greiper, Katie Trenchard and Gabe Chenoweth.