With New Yorker staff writer and #1 best-seller David Grann (Killers of the Flower Moon, The Lost City of Z, and The Wager). We covered: the worst shipwreck in history; writing as both a real and metaphorical quest; and how the chronicle of real life disaster is merely an excuse to explore Grann's true perennial subject: the human condition. Asked what the human condition actually is, Grann told me: "It's f&cked up."

All episodes of The Thoughtful Bro aired live originally on A Mighty Blaze. The Thoughtful Bro is proudly sponsored by Libro.fm.