Hi everyone, I'm Sam Shirazi and this is Federal Fallout the 2025 Virginia Elections. This episode I'm joined by former Democratic delegate and 2021 Democratic Lieutenant Governor nominee Hala Ayala.

I'm really excited to have her on because she saw the original Federal Fallout in 2017 being swept in during a blue wave when she flipped a red seat, and then she knows what it's like to run statewide um the ticket.

00:31.55

Sam Shirazi

And so I think it's going to be really interesting to have her on and to interview her. And I'm really excited that she's on and I i appreciate that she took the time to do that. So Delegate Ayala, thank you for joining me.

00:43.48

Hala Ayala

Thank you for having me, Sam.

00:45.67

Sam Shirazi

So I guess to begin, i mean, could you tell people a little bit about your background and why you wanted to run for office in the first place?

00:53.62

Hon_ Hala Ayala

You know, I never wanted to run for office in the first place, which may sound surprising. i have done a lot of campaigning as a volunteer, super volunteer since 2007. Then, you know, I was doing a lot of door knocking. love that. I found that people really are very honest and open and willing to tell you what's on their mind.

01:15.05

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And I found that so helpful to the campaigns that I was supporting. And then I went into advocacy, you know, fighting for women's reproductive health care, attorney maternal health care,

01:28.36

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you know, Medicaid, all of the things that, you know, we're fighting for it still today. So it just happened in 2017 where when Trump came into office, I felt that urge, that push.

01:41.68

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I did something that was uncharacteristic of my character, which was quit my federal job in cybersecurity under that national security umbrella. ah did focus ops, intelligence, a lot of different work, and I loved the work.

01:57.07

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But I couldn't be a federal employee and run for office. So I quit my job with $68 just in my bank account, won in that 2017 election, also lost 30 pounds, though, from the stress and anxiety of thinking, did I do the right thing?

02:12.84

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But i just couldn't sit idle and sit silent. And so I think, you know, a lot of that is still remnant of today in today's elections.

02:22.46

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, and and that was part of the reason I thought it would be so great to talk to you is you know to talk a little bit about 2017 because you were running against an incumbent who would eventually go on to be the ah ah the chair of the Republican Party in Virginia.

02:27.04

Hon_ Hala Ayala

but

02:34.28

Sam Shirazi

And he he was you know had been around a while. And you know i imagine at the beginning, it seemed like it might be difficult to flip that seat. And then by the end, you got a decent margin of victory.

02:46.32

Sam Shirazi

mean, what was it like running in 2017 and trying to flip red seat?

02:51.09

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I think, you know, I go back to where I started mentally, where, you know, as ah an employee it was uncanny for me to, uncharacteristic for me to quit my job. I was super responsible. and the oldest child of four sisters. And, you know, and of course we had some set up children. So I was always just super cognizant of responsibility and being the eldest child.

03:15.20

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Fast forward to that day of making that decision, i just... i it It wasn't just something I do. My son you know has some challenges that you know he needed he had special needs.

03:28.95

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I had a daughter that had other issues. I needed the healthcare. So quitting my job literally put everything on the line. And i don't recommend that um for for for for us to do. But i felt it that I felt so strongly compelled to do that.

03:45.69

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I was a single parent. I am a single parent at the and at the time i so I was as well. And it just it just was so heavy. But I knew that Donald Trump as president, I knew the importance of state legislatures.

03:59.94

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I knew the importance of having that firewall against federal laws that could come rolling into our backyard. And It was either a personal sacrifice in order to help others so they wouldn't have to sacrifice or have situations that they couldn't defend themselves or have access to health care or whatever the cause or issue that could come up.

04:23.15

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I wanted to be part of the person that stood up to Donald Trump and that administration and help my fellow Commonwealth neighbors and community members and friends.

04:35.85

Sam Shirazi

Well, you know as as you can tell, the name of this podcast is Federal Fallout. And I think that was the original election where there was a federal fallout. I think in hindsight, there was like a blue wave and you know we could see it coming.

04:44.42

Hon_ Hala Ayala

the

04:48.99

Sam Shirazi

i mean, what was it like when you were running? Did you have a sense of, yes, something's happening here? Or were you just you know not sure you're running a race and then at the end you were pleasantly surprised?

04:59.32

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I think, you know, i had a door knocked for a very long time. Like I said, you know, 2007 was my first of the Obama race. And I think I knew my community people thought I was already elected, right? As much as I was on the doors, I've always knocked doors.

05:17.12

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But that year, our team knocked 20,000 doors, you know, in that election cycle, I was on call time, you know, sometimes over 30 hours a week in order to raise funds for my campaign.

05:30.51

Hon_ Hala Ayala

i think running that that race was and unnerving. I didn't know what the future would would bring. But if i was going to do all if I was going to sacrifice myself and my job and put my my myself out there like that, that I was going to do everything I could to win. And that's all I could focus on.

05:50.62

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I couldn't focus on his nonsense, meaning Donald Trump's nonsense and all the craziness. But I knew i had to give it everything I had. And I ate, slept, you know, every minute of the day was campaigning.

06:06.15

Hon_ Hala Ayala

It was scary. It was very scary for me because of the sacrifices I had made in order to run. Would I have done it again? Absolutely. It was worth it.

06:16.29

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And that is the importance of state legislatures that I'm trying to speak to and connect those dots.

06:21.66

Sam Shirazi

Well, that definitely is ah is a good perspective on what it's like to run and the sacrifices that someone has to make. I mean, before i just pivot to after you got elected, you know how did you balance everything? Because I often hear from people who might be interested in running that – It's just so much work and how do i deal with family and personal stuff and work?

06:44.58

Sam Shirazi

I mean, how did you do it? It sounds like it was a lot and you were able to somehow juggle it all. And how were you able to do it and what advice would you give other people thinking about running?

06:54.64

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Sam, I don't even know how to describe it. It was so unnerving for me. Again, I quit my job. So I was a full-time candidate, not something I recommend if you don't have the means to do.

07:07.32

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I didn't come from a wealthy place, so I cashed in my 401k, did everything I could to sustain my family during that time. and interview for a job because of the line of work that I was doing, it takes me a long time to get a job, you know, from, you know, transferring my clearance and all of the other, things that I have to do to get cleared, to even get into the position of public trust and, you know, cyber and national security work. So it's not,

07:37.52

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you know, days in the making as far as getting employed, it is months. And so I was sort of having that as an undertone to the work I was doing as ah ah as a candidate.

07:49.05

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I was in a very unique space where I just felt very scared. If I'm being honest, I was scared. I didn't know what the result was going to be, but I knew I had to do something.

08:02.91

Hon_ Hala Ayala

for candidates that are deciding to run, i would say, you know, if you're going to make these sacrifices, make sure you give it your all. And most of the candidates do, right? you know, they're giving it their all, they're knocking doors, they're doing all of the required activities in a campaign in order to be successful.

08:22.83

Hon_ Hala Ayala

It is not for the faint of heart. I know sometimes it looks glamorous or easy or all the adjectives that have been said to me before as a former candidate and an elected, you know, it it looks one way, it appears one way, but behind the scenes, all of these metrics and operations and logistics are happening all together.

08:45.75

Hon_ Hala Ayala

all at once and you have to make it work.

08:48.86

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a lot. And I'm sure it was an experience when you had to go through it. But you did get elected in 2017. And I wanted to talk a little bit about actually governing, because I think oftentimes with these elections, people focus on the elections, who wins, and then people kind of move on and aren't actually focused.

09:08.46

Sam Shirazi

And I know that you When you were serving, it was a time when the Democrats, especially when they got the trifecta, were able to pass a lot of important legislation.

09:16.40

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you

09:17.76

Sam Shirazi

So what was it like being a member and then also being able to pass some of your priorities?

09:24.75

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I think the first day I walked into the the General Assembly, you know, to the floor, if you will, into the chamber, I felt an over, I was overcome with emotion, knowing that people like Madison,

09:38.68

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you know, Jefferson, our founding fathers who did not see ah Black woman, Latina, a Middle Eastern woman, ah multiracial woman walk into this space, a woman at that, walk into this space and become a lawmaker, a legislator.

09:57.27

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I think all of that hit me as once how proud and honored I was to even have an opportunity to serve and represent my community, to represent my district, and to have the faith and trust of my constituents, that they elected me overwhelmingly for this position.

10:17.38

Hon_ Hala Ayala

That was one thought that hit me. I was just super grateful, and I still am grateful for that experience. You know, it just, where I came from, my trajectory in life,

10:28.59

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you know, that did not prepare me for that moment, right? This was, know, I've um overcome so much in my life to get to this point. I would say, you know, the statistically, it would have been against my trajectory or journey in life to ever end up being elected.

10:45.49

Hon_ Hala Ayala

So I was super, I just had so much gratitude in my heart about being in this space and having that opportunity. And then second, i I know from my personal experience, Medicaid was at the forefront of my mind, as was the Equal Rights Amendment.

11:01.58

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I came there for my children, for other families, their children, their family members. ah Medicaid saved my son's life, literally, and my life. I wouldn't have been there. So having that opportunity to pass Medicaid expansion in Virginia was I could have left after that and been okay with my service. Like I came there to do those things.

11:24.91

Hon_ Hala Ayala

not that I can't do more and not, there's not, not that there's not always more to do. But those were the for the top of my priority and agenda to help Virginians. And that was sort of the theme as we're seeing today, you know, healthcare access, affordable healthcare care access, and the expansion to those who may not who are looking in the windows of hospitals because they can't afford to walk in the doors.

11:53.39

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And know this country, as wealthy as we are, and the the affordabilities that we are capable of doing to extend that to mankind, womankind, humankind should be the compassion that we have as as people who govern to do so and and make sure that people can at least get the basic essential needs so that they can thrive or have every opportunity to thrive.

12:21.16

Hon_ Hala Ayala

So it just made me proud to have those particular policies passed.

12:25.32

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, and and I did want to ask you more about your time as a delegate, but I guess just specifically on the Medicaid question, because obviously was a big accomplishment when Virginia was able to expand Medicaid.

12:36.31

Sam Shirazi

under the Affordable Care Act. And it's been in the news where there may be cuts coming down the pipeline with regards to to Medicaid because of the bill the Republicans passed in Congress.

12:48.61

Sam Shirazi

And just from your perspective, both personal and as a politician, I mean, why is Medicaid so important? Because I think oftentimes people don't understand the program.

12:57.13

Hon_ Hala Ayala

It is a complex program. I will say that it covers so many services and to, and and we don't have the time on this podcast to go through every service, but for over 700,000 Virginians to have access, that's not even the base of the number. It's probably up in the 900,000. That tells you how many people need to have access just in our state alone to that particular program.

13:26.67

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And for somebody like President Trump and Republicans to turn a blind eye on their constituencies and just say, we're going to get rid of it, or we're going to nix it, or we're going to chop it up, whatever they plan to do, defund it, whatever, is just, it's inhumane.

13:43.56

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And so they should have blood on their hands, right? Because Medicaid, they're not cutting the budget. They're cutting lives. These measures that Medicaid provides, life-saving services in some instances, people depend on that.

14:00.89

Hon_ Hala Ayala

They need that. in order to have their breathing equipment, to have their essential medications to survive day to day, to to help children, to help their parents, to help themselves, right? So i don't know, Sam, I don't understand how someone can walk into a room or a voting booth and vote for something that is so inhumane.

14:25.48

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I just don't know where the compassion has been lost on these legislators. And it's it just confuses me. It's very confusing and and it just angers me, right?

14:37.44

Hon_ Hala Ayala

My son currently is on the Affordable care Health Care Act. He gets insurance through the exchange. He needs that because of his particular condition and because of the things he needs to access, certain medicaid medical prescriptions, et cetera.

14:55.44

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And, you know, when I heard that, come across my news banner. It didn't shock me, but it angered me. I remember sitting in my kitchen, just screaming and crying.

15:05.82

Sam Shirazi

Well, yeah, I mean, it's definitely something that will have to weigh on the incoming General Assembly and how they might have to deal with that.

15:13.73

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Yeah.

15:14.98

Sam Shirazi

And I guess to to kind of pivot back to your experience, I suspect there's going to be large class coming in more so on the Democratic side in the House of Delegates.

15:26.92

Sam Shirazi

mean, you were obviously part of a big wave that came in in after the 2017 election.

15:32.86

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Sure.

15:33.37

Sam Shirazi

you know What is it like coming in with all these other new members and what advice would you give to new members of the General Assembly next year?

15:42.10

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I didn't take this advice very well. And, you know, I probably should have. That was the naivete that I had going into the General Assembly. And that was okay. It was a learning lesson.

15:54.56

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I would say, listen more, talk less. um I know that sounds rude. I don't mean it to be rude. um And I don't think that the veteran legislators meant that to be rude.

16:06.86

Hon_ Hala Ayala

They meant that as a sage piece of advice. And at first, I did not take that advice. But as I evolved as a legislator, I understood what that meant.

16:18.07

Hon_ Hala Ayala

There's a deeper contextual meaning behind that saying. the pragmatism, the thoughtfulness, you know, all of the things that we should do as adults, you know, think before we speak.

16:31.46

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But in a legislative environment, it is not as organic as we think it is as we as we live our day-to-day lives. It's a very unique space. It can be diverse.

16:41.83

Hon_ Hala Ayala

challenging and very competitive all at the same time. So once you say something out loud, you know, it could be captured by a reporter. could be kept, you know, so be careful of what you say, you know, and be very thoughtful.

16:56.97

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And I thought I was being thoughtful and sometimes things would just slip out, you know, because I was just being myself and it was taken out of context. And so i would just tell the new legislators, enjoy the moment, celebrate the moment, listen more, talk less.

17:14.80

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And that, again, is not intended to be rude. It's just sort of a rules of the road. it's It's helpful because there's so much information coming at you and there's so many experiences coming at you.

17:26.60

Sam Shirazi

Well, i think I think that's certainly good advice that both for the new members and in life in general, that it's usually good to listen. And so we'll see if they take that advice. I did want to ask something about being a member of the General Assembly. And I've but i've had a few former members on and some of them have different opinions. But it's obviously in Virginia, we have this part-time legislature. it doesn't pay a whole lot.

17:52.24

Sam Shirazi

I mean, do you think... The full-time legislature is the model of Virginia should go towards in order to allow more people to have the time and space to serve to focus on being a member of the General Assembly? Or do you think the current part-time system works well enough?

18:09.88

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Oddly enough, we're already full time, right? If you count the hours, you never stop being a legislator. Even when session is out, you're meeting with your constituents, you are having town halls, you are addressing constituent issues, you don't It's not an on and off, like you walk into a session and then you clock out and that's the end of your duties.

18:34.36

Hon_ Hala Ayala

You're always on. And so I do think full-time pay or competitive a wage for these legislators. So you're not working two to three jobs as some of them did um because the class that came in in 2017 came from demographics that were working ah ah working class.

18:52.21

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I was definitely one of those individuals. And so to I had to barter with my employer. I had to get, you know, I was working to my job.

19:03.01

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I would work at night and sometimes to four o'clock in the morning, go to bed and get up at 630, which is only a maybe two hours sleep, do my legislative duties,

19:14.26

Hon_ Hala Ayala

you know, so on and so forth, finish whatever had to prep for my legislative life, and then go right into my work life, catch up on emails, do whatever I had to do to to to sustain my current employment.

19:28.16

Hon_ Hala Ayala

That's really tough for people to do. And then trying to check in with your family if that is your situation or circumstance. So all of that, it's it's it's a load to carry. And sometimes legislators were you know, working two jobs, right? And had to put that on pause and they were barely making it in that space. So I do think that a decent wage and salary should be extended to these legislators. It is already a full-time job.

19:59.85

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. And I think we'll we'll see if that ever happens. I did want to kind of shift gears to when you eventually in 2020 decided you wanted to run for lieutenant governor, and then obviously became the Democratic nominee in 2021.

20:15.38

Sam Shirazi

I guess first, what made you want to run for lieutenant governor? And what was the difference between running statewide and running in a House of Delegates district?

20:22.77

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I would say that the decision wasn't done or taken or or it wasn't concluded lightly as to what my decision was to run for that for the lieutenant governor's seat.

20:35.78

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I remember talking with my family and they were like, what they asked the same question, why do you want to do this? And as we know, the role of the lieutenant governor, the tiebreaker, you know, that's just one.

20:46.87

Hon_ Hala Ayala

The other role is that they're able to govern over commissions and committees. And one that is passionate that I'm passionate about is mental health. disabilities. And of course, I wanted to expand on the technology and cyber forefront.

21:03.08

Hon_ Hala Ayala

So I had an agenda. I wanted to help expand. Don Beyer did this, why he was Lieutenant Governor. he did so He made so many strides as Lieutenant Governor for the disability community.

21:15.66

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And I wanted to continue to build on what we have already made progress on and then continue to extend that and add more advocacy points for parents and caregivers or guardians of maybe children or our family members in that arena or in that subject matter or that issue and just expand upon that in the as lieutenant governor.

21:40.02

Hon_ Hala Ayala

the other The other reason that I stepped up, it was because of COVID. I saw the devastation. and I felt that, you know, as someone who had overcome a lot of obstacles, on death in my family, you know, just so many hardships that I could lend my personal lived experiences and and help move the Commonwealth forward, working with that working with whomever the governor was going to be at that time.

22:08.14

Hon_ Hala Ayala

So I still wanted to be active in the body and I wanted to just be a part of that conversation.

22:14.45

Sam Shirazi

Well, eventually you did win the Democratic nomination in 2021, and then the general election happened. And I think there were some things that probably could have gone differently for the Democrats and probably not the outcome you wanted. i mean, what was that campaign like? And, you know, I'm sure it was disappointing at the end. and And what was it like to have to, you know, deal with that outcome?

22:36.06

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I'm going to tell you, Sam, I a person who came from humble beginnings, you know, from the projects and stood in food lines with my mother for for, because we didn't know how we were going to keep our lights on or keep our house after I lost my father. He was murdered when I was two.

22:55.94

Hon_ Hala Ayala

So when you come from that humble, those humble beginnings to be able to be the democratic nominee, right? And, you know, and to have that opportunity that Virginians had faith in me enough to nominate me and elect me and, and you know, to run in that general, the the general election. it It was just profound for me. I'm i'm still grateful.

23:20.92

Hon_ Hala Ayala

It was sad that I didn't win. I have passion for my community and for the Commonwealth. Am I perfect? Absolutely not. Can I always do better? Absolutely.

23:32.39

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But I knew that my heart and all of my intentions was to go in there to make this a better place than when then then I left it. So I think that losing that was the hardest election that I've ever lost um because I wanted it for all the reasons I've already stated and more.

23:53.37

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And I think that it also helped me become a better politician. I know that word's a dirty word, but what I mean by that is to evolve myself and listen you know honing in those listening skills, being able to you know find ways to improve on policy, how to speak to our constituents or to the the people of the Commonwealth, how to be a better campaigner and get honed in on that message. So people understand what my goals are or what my goals would be, um and future campaigns. So I would, I don't regret it.

24:31.07

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I loved it. I know it didn't, it wasn't the outcome we hoped for. but it has matured me in this space, more than I had anticipated.

24:41.49

Sam Shirazi

And you know obviously the person who won that election was the current Lieutenant Governor, Winston Merrill Sears, and now she is running for governor. i think you know in your race, it was obviously the top of the ticket basically decided it and seemed like Winston Merrill Sears got to ride Glenn Youngkin's coattails and now she's running on her own.

24:54.03

Hon_ Hala Ayala

Sure.

25:00.30

Sam Shirazi

What was it like you know running against her and and how is she as an opponent?

25:05.66

Hon_ Hala Ayala

You know, i would say this. Winsome was a very interesting opponent. she She is... ah ah she's She's a great campaigner. I will give her that.

25:18.25

Hon_ Hala Ayala

But her policies were were out of touch with Virginians. They did not resonate. And they seem to be extreme. And they still are extreme. ah you know She is definitely more MAGA than Trump.

25:32.03

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And I think that if you're reading The Room or The Taint Leaves, that you would understand that what you're saying and what you believe do not resonate with the constituents of the Commonwealth or even the nation.

25:47.22

Hon_ Hala Ayala

As I said before, listen more, talk less. that That would be my advice for her, you know, to, to, I understand we have core belief systems, but when you're a legislator, you know, you're being elected by a democracy.

26:03.19

Hon_ Hala Ayala

You are you're and you know, the constituents, the people of Virginia say, this is what we want. And they clearly stated they wanted Medicaid expansion. They clearly supported roe v. Wade.

26:15.08

Hon_ Hala Ayala

They clearly supported our federal workforce. They clearly supported the work that we were doing, gun violence protection um um legislation, all of the the strides that we made, voter protections.

26:27.36

Hon_ Hala Ayala

And what I hear from Winsome are none of those things. None of those things, none of her ideals align with that vision that but the people of the Commonwealth have voted for in the past and still are talking about in the future.

26:42.88

Sam Shirazi

So, you know, as you look towards November and could you give us your sense of what you think might happen in Virginia and, you know, if the Democrats win, what you'd like them to focus on next year?

26:58.06

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I am not. That is above my pay grade. i cannot tell them what to focus on. they They will be under great leadership under Governor Spanberger and, you know, Leader Scott, Speaker Scott, and all of the leaders in the General Assembly. So I think that what I see for the future is that we the Commonwealth will be in good hands.

27:22.08

Hon_ Hala Ayala

I'm not a psychic. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what the outcome will be. But my feeling is talking with the people around me and in my community. And even as I'm commuting to work,

27:34.45

Hon_ Hala Ayala

is that what's happening in our country is abysmal and it is sad and it is frightening. And they are overwhelmingly rejecting any of the alignment of Trump policies, the MAGA, the DOGE, all of that. They don't want it. it is There's no quorums about it. So I'm hoping if that sentiment is true and it rings true, that we will see a Governor Spanberger, we'll see a Lieutenant Governor Hashmi We'll see an AG or the Attorney General Jones and that we will see a bigger number of Democrats serving in the House of Delegates under Speaker Scott.

28:15.49

Sam Shirazi

Well, yeah, I mean, we'll we'll find out for sure in November. And, you know, I think it'll be interesting to see what ends up happening next year. You know, i did want to ask what life is like today. You're not completely out of politics, but you're out of elected office. What you're up to and what you might think about doing in your future in the political realm.

28:38.65

Hon_ Hala Ayala

The door is never closed on elected office. I don't make plans to run, so but it's not the door is not closed. I am the Women's Caucus Chair and focusing on empowering women.

28:50.17

Hon_ Hala Ayala

As you've probably seen, as is an as have others, we just endorsed over 50 plus women from the schoolhouse to the statehouse, giving out money ranging from, you know,

29:04.62

Hon_ Hala Ayala

incremental amounts of $250 to $2,000. And this has gone to rural Virginians, this has gone to northern Virginians, this has gone to central Virginians.

29:16.44

Hon_ Hala Ayala

We, for the first time, we've opened up our endorsements all the way down to local office. And What I bring from my elected experience is that I know how important that these constitutional offices are, the school board races, local races are, as is the state races. So we're focusing on empowering the candidates and hoping to get to that win this fall.

29:43.35

Sam Shirazi

Well, I'm sure if the listeners really appreciated your perspective and getting to hear what it was like to be a delegate and kind of your current plans and what you're still doing in politics. I'm sure you'll so you'll be ah ah involved in Virginia politics in the years ahead and will be an important voice. So I really appreciate you taking the time and coming to talk to me.

30:03.35

Hala Ayala

Thank you, Sam. Thank you for your voice. I appreciate you.

30:06.84

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much. So this has been Federal Fallout, and I'll join you next time.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit samshirazi.substack.com