Joe talks to award-winning and Billboard-charting artist Flamy Grant, the 'shame-slaying, hip-swaying, singing-songwriting drag queen' from North Carolina. As well as sharing their story of growing up in the evangelical church, they talk about the need to trust peoples' experiences and how, so often, we have a view of God who 'doesn’t love very well'. Along the way, Flamy talks about mystical encounters, dealing with opposition and abuse and why, in the end, it's all about joy.

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