In this episode of New Persuasive Words, Bill and Scott unpack Chapter 3 of Richard Rohr’s Breathing Under Water, where Rohr draws a powerful contrast between surrender and sacrifice. They explore why authentic transformation begins not in striving or control, but in letting go—and how that truth speaks to more than personal faith. In a culture addicted to performance, outrage, and winning, Rohr’s call to surrender offers a radical alternative. This episode dives deep into what it means to live freely—in our spiritual lives, our politics, and our public culture.