On this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones talks with Beatrice Marovich about her provocative new essay, “Is Theology Dying?”, published in the Spring 2025 edition of The Other Journal. Marovich, author of Sister Death: Political Theologies for Living and Dying, reflects on the state of theology in our contemporary world—its dwindling institutional presence, its surprising resilience in unexpected places, and its evolving role in public discourse. Together, they explore whether theology’s apparent decline is a death knell, a transformation, or something stranger altogether.

You can find "Is Theology Dying?" here.

Special Guest: Beatrice Marovich.

In this episode Scott is joined by historian and freelance journalist Molly Worthen. Her newest book is Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From The Puritans To Donald Trump. They explore the themes of charisma, storytelling, and personal belief. They discuss the complexities of faith, the journey from observer to practitioner, and the role of charismatic leaders in shaping cultural narratives. Worthen shares her personal experiences of conversion and the challenges of reconciling faith with reason, while also reflecting on the importance of community and the need for meaningful stories in a chaotic world. The discussion touches on historical figures, modern political charisma, and the ongoing search for understanding in both religious and secular contexts.

You can find out more about Molly and her work at her website: https://mollyworthen.com.

Special Guest: Molly Worthen.

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones sits down with pastor and author Jack Haberer to discuss his new book, Swimming With the Sharks: Leading the Full Spectrum Church in a Red-and-Blue World. As political polarization increasingly shapes—and often divides—American congregations, Jack brings hard-earned wisdom, theological depth, and pastoral sensitivity to the challenge of leading churches across ideological lines.

Drawing from decades of ministry in diverse settings, Jack shares real-world stories, practical insights, and a hopeful vision for what it means to shepherd a church that refuses to split down party lines. The conversation explores how pastors can stay rooted in the gospel while navigating cultural landmines, how churches can become spaces of faithful disagreement and spiritual growth, and why unity doesn’t have to mean uniformity.

Whether you’re a church leader, a congregant, or just someone curious about faith in a polarized age, this episode offers honest reflections and tangible guidance for engaging the tension with grace and courage.

Listen in and discover how to swim with the sharks—and lead with love.

Special Guest: Jack Haberer .

On this episode of Give and Take, I talk with Lauren Jackson, writer of The Believing Project at The New York Times. Lauren explores the strange, beautiful, and sometimes baffling terrain of American religious life—what we believe, why we believe it, and how belief shapes the way we live. We talk about the origin of her project, the state of faith in an increasingly secular age, and why the stories we tell about belief might be more important than ever. From revival tents to deconstruction TikToks, Lauren brings a literary and deeply curious lens to the spiritual landscape. It’s a conversation about belief, doubt, devotion, and the stories that make us.

In this conversation, Lauren shares her experiences growing up in the Mormon Church in Arkansas, exploring the complexities of faith, identity, and the search for meaning in a secular world. She discusses the challenges of navigating religious beliefs in modern society, the role of religion in politics, and the cultural shifts surrounding spirituality. Lauren reflects on her personal journey, the longing for connection, and the importance of understanding diverse belief systems in today's world.

Takeaways

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Background

Special Guest: Lauren Jackson.

My guest is David Litt. His newest book is It's Only Drowning: A True Story of Learning to Surf and the Search for Common Ground. Litt, a former Obama speechwriter moves to the Jersey Shore and learns to surf with the help of his brother-in-law: a tattooed, truck-driving Joe Rogan superfan. David, the Yale-educated writer with a fear of sharks, and Matt, the daredevil electrician with a shed full of surfboards, had never been close. But as America’s crises piled up and David spiraled into existential dread, he noticed that his brother-in-law was thriving. He began to suspect Matt’s favorite hobby had something to do with it. David started taking surf lessons. For months, he wiped out on waves the height of daffodils. Yet, after realizing that surfing could change him both in and out of the water, he set an audacious goal: riding a big wave in Hawaii. He searched for an expert he could trust to guide and protect him—and when he couldn’t find one, he asked Matt. Together, they set out on a journey that spanned coasts, and even continents, before taking them to Oahu’s famously dangerous North Shore. It’s Only Drowning is a laugh-out-loud love letter to surfing—and so much more. It’s an ode to embarking on adventures at any age. It’s a blueprint for becoming braver at a time when it takes courage just to read the news. Most of all, it’s the story of an unlikely friendship, one that crosses the fault lines of education, ideology, and culture tearing so many of us apart.

Takeaways

Summary

In this engaging conversation, David Litt discusses his experiences during the COVID pandemic, reflecting on themes of workaholism, personal growth, and the importance of embracing fear. He shares insights from his journey of learning to surf, using it as a metaphor for navigating life's challenges. The discussion also touches on the cultural dynamics of Washington, the need for joy in political discourse, and the significance of empathy in understanding others. David emphasizes the importance of trying new things and finding balance in a chaotic world, ultimately inspiring listeners to embrace change and seek personal fulfillment.

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Life Insurance and Pandemic Blues

Special Guest: David Litt.

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with essayist and cultural critic William Deresiewicz about his provocative piece Post Election, published in Salmagundi magazine. They explore the growing disaffection with the contemporary left among intellectuals, artists, and other traditional allies, and the emergence of what Deresiewicz calls the “not-left.” It's a wide-ranging conversation about politics, culture, class, and what it means to think independently in a polarized age.

You can find Bill's essay here.

Special Guest: William Deresiewicz.

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with Justin Evans, author of The Little Book of Data. Justin has spent his career helping companies and creatives make sense of the numbers that shape our world. In his new book, he distills big ideas about data into bite-sized insights that are accessible, engaging, and surprisingly fun. We talk about how data can clarify rather than complicate, how it shapes decision-making in business and life, and why learning to read the "small print" of the digital age might just be a superpower. Whether you're a data skeptic or a spreadsheet junkie, this conversation will change how you think about the numbers that surround us.

Special Guest: Justin Evans.

In this episode, I’m joined by Todd McGowan, philosopher, psychoanalytic theorist, and author of Universality and Identity Politics. We explore the central argument of his book—that true political transformation requires a return to universality, not a retreat into particular identities. Todd challenges prevailing assumptions about identity-based movements and offers a compelling alternative grounded in psychoanalytic theory and Hegelian philosophy. It’s a provocative and timely conversation about how we understand solidarity, difference, and what it means to build a more just world.

My guest is Thane Rosenbaum. His latest book, Beyond Proportionality: Israel’s Just War in Gaza, challenges prevailing narratives surrounding Israel's military actions in Gaza, arguing that accusations of disproportionate force overlook the complexities of modern urban warfare and the legal standards governing armed conflict.

Drawing upon international humanitarian law, including the Geneva Conventions and the U.N. Charter, Rosenbaum contends that Israel's military operations target legitimate threats such as terrorist infrastructure and weaponry, while taking measures to minimize civilian casualties. He emphasizes that the principle of proportionality should be assessed based on the intent and conduct of military actions, rather than solely on casualty figures

Special Guest: Thane Rosenbaum.

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with Elizabeth MeLampy, author of Forget the Camel: Animals, Symbols, and the Stories We Tell. From rattlesnake roundups in Texas to lobster boils on the Maine coast, and the curious case of a certain Pennsylvanian groundhog, MeLampy explores the surprising ways animals help us build communities, confront our fears, and make meaning in a messy world. Together, they discuss how rituals involving creatures both wild and domestic reveal our deepest cultural myths—about nature, class, history, and ourselves.

What do sled dogs say about heroism? How does killing a rattlesnake become a rite of regional pride? And why do we still care what a groundhog sees in February? Tune in for a conversation that’s as thought-provoking as it is unexpected.

Special Guest: Elizabeth Melampy.