What happens when nationalism tries to draw a moral boundary—and discovers it’s already fraying? In this episode of New Persuasive Words, Bill and Scott dig into Ross Douthat’s recent Interesting Times conversation with political theorist Yoram Hazony on the unsettling rise of antisemitism on the American Right. Hazony, one of nationalism’s most prominent intellectual defenders, argues that this resurgence isn’t mainly about Israel or foreign policy, but about deeper cultural, theological, and identity-based resentments that predate our current moment.

Bill and Scott wrestle with that claim: Does naming “ancient tensions” help us confront modern antisemitism—or does it risk normalizing it? Where does legitimate critique of liberalism or globalism end, and where do dangerous tropes about power, influence, and loyalty begin? And what does all of this mean for persuasion in an era when political movements are increasingly shaped by grievance and identity rather than policy?

This is a conversation about nationalism’s moral limits, the power of narrative, and the responsibility of public intellectuals when ideas migrate from theory to movement. Thoughtful, critical, and urgent.