With the 2025 Eurovision Song Contest just four weeks away, the community’s excitement around Basel is tinged with memories of Malmö. Over the last twelve months, countless discussions and changes have reshaped the Contest.
We’ve invited Bakel Walden, the current chair of the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group, back on the ESC Insight podcast. He joins Ewan Spence over a digital coffee to explain some of the many complex issues the EBU has been addressing over the last twelve months.
They talk about several topics, including…
Selected Quotes From The Interview
These have been lightly edited for clarity.
On The Published Code Of Conduct:
“Over the years, over the decades, for every case, you had a new rule, and on top, and on top. What we’ve done is really making it more digestible. The code of conduct is a bit more than just a rule book… It’s mostly about agreeing to this, not to say ‘okay, there are some rules and, you know, whatever.’ You’re going to actually sign it. If you participate, we agree to this, and I think this has been helping a lot to be very clear on things.”
Discussing The Lyrics In Georgia’s Song
Ewan Spence: “In mainstream Europe, [Georgia’s song ‘Freedom’] is a straightforward song, but given the political situation that you have in Georgia it could read another way by some of the political parties. How much of that local versus international impact can the EBU consider?”
Bakel Walden: “It is not black and white, it is something where it is always open to interpretation, it’s creativity, it’s freedom of expression. What we are trying to do is to have a conversation. If it’s more clear, more profound, or has more of an impact, then we are entering in this discussion… Look, let’s be as creative as possible, let’s also be mindful of some of the feedback we receive from some countries or some people involved and take that seriously as well.”
On Governments Instrumentalising The Song Contest
Ewan Spence: “We’ve seen reports that the Israeli government is going to be putting in significant advertising funds into the marketing of the song. That’s nothing to do with the broadcaster, but it’s under the Israeli flag. How do you resolve that tension?”
Bakel Walden: “I think you don’t resolve the tension, the tension will be there. The rules we have, there is always this discussion on how political the Eurovision Song Contest is? Can it be neutral? …It is not, you know, happening in space or on a different planet…
“What we can do is be as reasonable as possible, focusing on a good show. It’s a music event. It will not solve the problems in the world. It should not solve the problems in the world. And everything else, who’s spending marketing money? What is happening with every tweet? It doesn’t make any sense to follow them. Let’s try to really focus on the spirit together. When it’s over the edge, we’ve got to have that discussion, but in the end, everyone should bring something positive to it. It might be a bit naive, but that’s the only way this works; otherwise, we won’t have a Contest in five to ten years if we are not able to have something positive in a complex and sometimes negative world.”
On Artists’ Mental Health
“There’s the welfare manager who has been talked about. There was great feedback from Junior Eurovision, where there was a dedicated person for the artist. They can come there with problems, with issues, and it’s going to be resolved, it’s going to be discussed. We have that now for the big Contest, and I think this will already take pressure off.”
“We have disconnected zones. A concrete example, when you have the delegations in their little wardrobes. This is now in a disconnected zone. There’s no filming, there’s no social media, there’s no posting, nothing. If you are there, if you are in a changing room, you want to practise, whatever, you are going to be offline.”
Eurovision Chat Over Coffee, with Eurovision Reference Group Chair Bakel Walden
As the Eurovision Song Contest moves forward and Basel 2025 draws closer, Bakel Walden, the current chair of the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group, returns to ESC Insight to talk with Ewan Spence about the state of the Song Contest.
You can listen to our previous podcast interviews with Bakel Walden; November 2024, March 2024.
Discover more about the Eurovision Song Contest and follow its journey to Basel by listening to the ESC Insight podcasts. You’ll find the show on iTunes, Google Podcasts, and Spotify. A direct RSS feed is available. We also have a regular email newsletter, which you can sign up for here.
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