This week on the EXP IndieCast, Scott and I are joined once again by game designer Nels Anderson, who's recent Montreal International Game Summit talk sparked a lively conversation about systems literacy, 2D indie-darlings, old television shows, player expectations, and so much more. Give this elongated episode and listen and let us know your thoughts by leaving your comments below. As always, you can find bonus material in the show notes below.

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Show notes:

- Run time: 33 min 11 sec- "MIGS Slides and Talk Text," via Above49 by Nels Anderson

- Everything Bad is Good for You by Steven Johnson- Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows- House of Leaves by Mark Danielewski

- Music provided by Brad Sucks