Extraction Insiders

“The industry, at least as it evolves in different countries, needs to start to look at Canada, and I think a perfect place to start is the regulatory side... There wasn’t a roadmap for us to follow; we were the first G7 country to have legalized cannabis at the national or federal level, and I think that’s a significant milestone.” 

“We’ve got a diverse set of talent across the country that is very specialized in understanding cannabis, and I think that’s what we’ll be exporting, quite frankly, is that know-how, that talent, that knowledge, on the international stage. While we may not be able to export a lot of physical product itself, outside of medical, I think we’ll be able to export that intel, that IP. And we’re seeing it…there’s tons of companies on the global stage coming here to be able to set up because we’ve created that atmosphere. So, I think we’ll see more of that IP, that talent, being exported out of Canada, because we’ve just been in it for so long and we understand it better than the global stage. And I think Canadians, generally, will be able to stop Europeans or Americans from making the same mistakes that were made in Canada, because we have the benefit of hindsight.”   

– Deepak Anand

This week’s guest, Deepak Anand, was named a top cannabis industry player by the Financial Post, and deservedly so. He founded the Canadian National Medical Marijuana Association and has guided the development of medical cannabis regulations at all levels of government in Canada, taught courses on professional management of medical marijuana, and been a member of multiple business and non-profit boards in the sector.

Most recently, Deepak co-founded and now serves as the CEO of Materia Ventures, which aims to enable global access to medical cannabis by having best-in-class cannabis extraction, processing, and distribution—done to EU-GMP quality standards. Materia’s team brings their expertise in manufacturing, processing, extraction, regulation, import, distribution, and retail to operations across Europe.

In this episode, Deepak discusses his own career shift from pharmaceuticals to cannabis as well as attitudes toward medical cannabis, illicit markets, GMP production standards, and much more. A self-proclaimed expert traveler with expertise in the medical and adult-use regulatory environments around the world, Deepak brings global examples to his analysis of areas where Canada has set the roadmap, and other areas where the country needs to catch up.

This episode was recorded in July of 2021.

“We’ve been doing this podcast for over a year now, and I think if you listen to a very early one…we said this was going to be the year of mergers, acquisitions, and bloodbath."
– Jason Laronde

"We’re good!”
– Joel Sherlock

~

“When you build an entire greenhouse, and you expect that it will get paid off in two crops… Even if the economics were that good, you can only assume then that other people will get into that market. … And so now, some of our customers who are the biggest clients in the world—the biggest cannabis companies in the world—they’re starting to shift, and it’s like, ‘If I can pick up 2% here and 4% there.’ And that’s such a shift from 18 months ago where it was just like, ‘I’ve got a license, how quick can I get going?’”
– Joel Sherlock

~

“I feel like more cool sh*t’s gonna come to light at MJBiz. Everybody’s going to walk around that floor and be like, ‘Whoa, what is that and where did that come from?’ I think that’s going to be the show that everybody goes, ‘Boom, that’s what we’ve been doing for the last year.’”
– Dexter L’Amarca

~

As Extraction Insiders celebrates its first birthday, and in anticipation of events season, hosts Joel Sherlock and Jason Laronde sit down to take a look back as well as forward. They’re joined by Dexter L’Amarca, Ancillary Sales Manager at Vitalis and resident expert on innovation in cannabis processing and products.

It’s safe to say that it’s been a year of massive change. The world of cannabis is opening up, and there have been sweeping regulatory changes, particularly across the USA and Europe. In Canada, the next legislative hurdles approach with psilocybin, MDMA, and more. Within the cannabis industry, companies have merged, acquired, succeeded, and failed, all with an eye toward serving an increasingly educated consumer on a growing scale.

The pandemic also provided companies like Vitalis with an opportunity to hit reset and explore how new technology could solve problems, resulting in a massive surge in innovation. All in all, so much has happened over the past year and a half in the background of the industry, and our hosts cannot wait to see what this means for the future.

Vitalis is going to be at two of the largest cannabis conferences at the end of this year, east and west, and is excited to see you all in person. First, find Vitalis right up front at MJBizCon in Las Vegas from October 20 to 22, 2021, as a proud Gold Sponsor. Right after that, they’re heading to NYC for CWCBExpo from November 4 to 6, and you may even find Jason on stage for a TED-style talk. These will be shows you won’t want to miss, as a year’s investment in research, development, and innovation comes to light.

“The point where we started to accelerate was going outside our comfort zone. You can take that idea, that mentality, and transcribe it into anything.”
– Shayne Labis

“Somebody should write a book on how to grow a product company because it’s just like a needle in a haystack trying to figure out what the hell you’re supposed to be doing.”
– Nicole Barron

This week’s guests likely have the best-stocked home bar you’ll ever see. Nicole Barron, “Pour Director,” boasts a background as a bartender—plus a business education and plenty of Instagram savvy. Shayne Labis, “Chief Shaker,” is also a bartender, as well as Nicole’s partner in crime, life, and business. He credits Nicole as the catalyst behind the transformation of his passion for bitters into a thriving venture.

Born to Shake is a Kelowna-based company that proclaims, “Life's too short to drink sh!tty cocktails.” Through extracted bitters, hand-crafted syrups, and cocktail kits, as well as catering, private events, and mixology classes, they make cocktail-bar quality accessible to everyone, every day.

In this episode, Nicole and Shayne are joined by Vitalis’ Dexter L’Amarca and Jason Laronde. They sip blood orange margaritas and discuss the ups and downs of entrepreneurship in the COVID era, the chemistry and extraction of bitters, and the strategy behind marketing to millennials. Hidden among the business know-how are tips to elevate your own mixology game. And of course, given Vitalis’ expertise as an extraction specialist serving a wide variety of industries, a central theme is the research and development of innovative equipment solutions for Born to Shake’s unique needs. Because after all, a person can only peel so many oranges by hand!

"I think that the industry is going to evolve as it has been in the last little bit to where the indoor guys are going to struggle and cost of production is going to become more and more of a play. It may not on the flower side, it may not on the dry side, but I certainly think on the liquid side, when you look at our cost of production versus somebody growing indoors, I just think it’s not sustainable. Those types of changes are going to evolve.”
– Rob Jones

“Prior to the cosolvent coming on stream, we were running 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And the simple math was saying we weren’t going to get completed all the biomass we had in the barn by the end of next crop year…You’re only as fast as your slowest piece of equipment…Our young guys are just absolutely thrilled with that piece of equipment. You come to work every day and it’s pristine, it’s clean, and they treat it like it’s theirs. It’s a Rolls Royce, and they treat it like a Rolls Royce, so much appreciated.”
– Rob Jones

Rob Jones is the President of Christina Lake Cannabis, and formerly Executive VP of Business Development and Sales. Located near the American border in the intersection of two lower BC valleys, Christina Lake Cannabis is uniquely positioned to use the natural outdoor environment to grow healthy, robust cannabis plants. The “outdoor advantage” brings with it a lower cost structure and results in a natural, high-quality product which treads more lightly on the planet.

Before getting into cannabis, Rob had a professional hockey career and then gained 35 years of experience in trading agricultural commodities around the globe. When Rob relocated to Palm Springs in December 2019, he thought it would be for retirement. But a few months later, after the pandemic hit and Rob returned to Canada, an encounter on a golf course led him to sign on as a mentor for agricultural startups. Not long after that, Rob learned that a cannabis company was looking for someone to sell oil. Within the week, Rob was visiting Christina Lake Cannabis, looking across a “magical” 18 acres of pot plants. The rest is history.

In this episode, hosts Jason Laronde and James Seabrook welcome Rob to share his expertise and industry insights, including lessons to be learned from the commodities industry, the importance of COAs, and why outdoor growing represents “agriculture at its best.” A satisfied Vitalis customer, and the first recipient of the Vitalis Cosolvent Injection System, Rob also gives his honest advice to industry newcomers on capital expenditure decision-making and finding the right partner for your business.

“The earlier that customers come to us looking for solutions, obviously the better. And the earlier they come to our distribution and other vendor partners like you guys, the sooner they get us involved in the process, the sooner we can make sure they don’t spend money willy-nilly. They have enough space for what they’re going to want to do. And if they’re already confined, a lot of times - unfortunately, to a certain zoning or space or building that they jumped into – we have to be realistic about how much of whatever they’re going to make. And if they don’t have enough space to make as much as they want, approach this differently: are you going to make crude with your guys’ CO2 extractors and sell it to someone who has an entire post-processing lab filled with our equipment?”
– Max Dubin

Max Dubin is the industry veteran you want to know and who has a long list of crazy stories you want to hear. More formally, he is the Manager of Sales Development, R&D, and Training at Across International (AI), leading manufacturer of heat treatment, laboratory, and material processing equipment. His story is not unlike most, having landed in the cannabis space from a fluke encounter over a decade ago as a “disillusioned” college student with a degree in politics, Latin American studies and creative writing. He started at AI in packing and shipping, where he talked too much and packed too slow, so quickly moved into customer-focused roles.

Rachael Stene, Senior Outside Sales Representative, chose a similar windy path. Prior to AI, she sold oyster mushrooms, which, while short-lived, taught her some valuable lessons about startups which she’s been applying to successful business development at AI ever since.

Across International has been manufacturing equipment for nearly 30 years for big names like Tesla, NASA, GE, and Toyota. For the past decade, they’ve been building a stellar reputation for their botanical laboratory equipment such as evaporators, vacuum ovens, ultra-low freezers, and more.

In this episode of The Extraction Insiders, Max and Rachael are joined by host Jason Laronde and guest host Dexter L’Amarca Vitalis Ancillary Sales Manager, to look back on the “long, strange trip” that brought AI where they are today and what they continue to learn in an ever-changing industry. Together, AI and Vitalis team up to provide a unique, inside look at the customer-vendor relationship. Plus, the group draws on personal experience to advise industry newcomers and veterans alike on business planning, building aligned partnerships, exciting developments in emerging markets, and much, much more. 

“On the farmers' side, we had been doing this pre-regulations under a MMAR license to understand what it took to get there. You needed to understand collection and upgrading to make that happen. When we went to the growing community we had a model that had been tested to a degree. Really the sale was when we got out there, we had the equipment, we showed up and invested the capital to actually hook up to the back of the combine, and even though that equipment didn't work perfectly...

On day one we were out there, myself, our COO, Shane, all of the management team were in the field running behind these combines and making sure this was happening, working crazy crazy hours. It was a do whatever it takes mentality and what it has done is - farmers are incredibly hard-working people so when they see not only are you bringing a model that is not costing them anything but you're working alongside them to try and make them money they are definitely there to stay.”
- Brett Halvorson

Brett Halvorson is one of many proving that those in cannabis can come from the most unsuspecting corners of business - even finance. He joined, then start-up, True North in late 2017, applying his extensive background in the financial space with a resume that spans industries including mining, fertilizers, and more - and experience working internationally where he expanded his knowledge on culture, language, and a whole new way of doing business.

In a few short years, Brett and his partners worked tirelessly in the office and in the fields themselves to build True North into the Canadian leader it is today in facilitating the production of bulk, extract-ready hemp for use in the medical-grade extraction sector. The company’s grower-focused model provides grain farmers with access to the best technology and expertise to leverage what was once a by-product of their growing process. With innovative tech, the Alberta-based company is monetizing the transformation of lower potency, high volume hemp biomass into a higher potency, for an extraction product that can be cost-competitive with those cultivated indoors.

In this episode of The Extraction Insiders, hosts Joel and Jason, discuss the uniqueness of the Canadian hemp market and the metric-shattering potential of advancing extraction technology - with an appearance by special guest Kayla Mann, CFO of Habitat Life. In the cannabis industry, if you don’t move quickly, you’re left behind, and this episode is no exception, as the group deftly navigates between topics. Risks, rewards, innovation, entrepreneurship, and pulled-pork sandwiches: it’s all here.

“It’s a lot of work. I think a lot of things come into play like testing your product. People think they have a great idea and everyone’s going to love that idea but it’s not always the case. And it’s really easy to test. With everything online it’s not hard to test a product before you try every flavor. That’s why there's a new flavor every week - put it out there and see what people like. I’m probably not going to throw a product out to the world and hope it sells. There’s always that R&D process that’s super crucial.”
– Rochelle Minagawa of Motherlove Kombucha

Rochelle Minagawa is the owner and operator who turned a love for the scoby into a well-established home-grown, Canadian beverage brand known as Motherlove Kombucha. Rochelle is an avid fermenter whose passion for “the transformation of organisms” rolled organically into a business. Her goal is to continue building out the craft category of kombucha and water kefir beverages that are healthy, easy and enjoyable to drink.

In this episode of The Extraction Insiders, Jason, Joel, and Rochelle test some tasty ferments and marvel at the power of nature while discussing the science of fermentation, entrepreneurial tips and tricks, and yet another thrilling application of extraction in the blossoming industry of Food & Beverage.

“The web can be a wonderful place…a wonderful resource, but I think it should only be about 20% of your decision making. You can start seeing okay well who is out there, but then you need to pick up the phone and understand who they are and see if you like them and vibe with them. At our level of equipment, it’s an investment into your future. Ask the hard questions, who are they working with, how long have they been around for and why should they be chosen – and customer service – will they be there when you need them.

Nobody wants to be sold. Where I focus is ABE – Always Be Educating. Our team does a phenomenal job at doing this…we’re not going to sell you something that you don’t need.”
– Jocelyn Prefontaine

Jocelyn Prefontaine is a close friend of Vitalis and one of the OG’s in the business who continues to break industry barriers. She’s currently the Head of Sales for Asia Pacific and Latin America for Keirton Inc. and Twister Trimming Solutions – manufacturers of heat-treatment, laboratory, and manual processing equipment – serving the cannabis, botanical, and ‘other’ spaces.

An extrovert and global connector who started working in door-to-door sales at the age of 19, Jocelyn has watched the cannabis industry grow exponentially throughout her career. She sat down (virtually) with Jason in December 2020 to share her unique perspective and convey the joy she finds in making human connections, educating people, and helping them find solutions that truly fit their needs. In this episode of The Extraction Insiders, Jocelyn talks about new innovations at Keirton, and why she believes that we’re only just starting to scratch the surface of what technology and automation can do to unleash the potential of this fascinating plant. She even takes a few minutes at the end to turn the tables on host Jason Laronde who gives props to the customers of today, and a few tips being well-versed and aware as a buyer in what is best described as a complicated industry.

“From an entrepreneurial perspective, you almost have to be a little bit crazy and say ‘You know what? I’m going to take the leap of faith and I’m going to throw in everything I’ve got at this and there’s no other option. I have to make this happen because I’ve put everything into it.’ And that’s what both me and my partner did.” – David Lluncor

Jason and Joel welcome David Lluncor, Co-Founder of White Rabbit OG, to his first-ever podcast. In an action-packed 50 minutes, David covers a lot of ground quickly – just like his company has done since launching their plant-based, all-natural, vegan gummies in July 2020.

Having made a career out of helping brands to thrive in the food and beverage retail industry, David credits his success to building strong connections and relationships wherever he goes. In this episode of The Extraction Insiders, David talks about a familiar shift from food and beverage to cannabis, how he thinks that educating consumers and “bud-tenders” alike can evolve the industry, and his mission to elevate and transform what consumers expect from a cannabis edible. David also delves into White Rabbit’s R&D process and teases some delicious new flavours coming soon.

Despite the challenges and obstacles of entrepreneurship, all of David’s hard work feels worth it when consumers get what the brand is all about: “You guys are Alice in Wonderland!”

“Beer is the commodity that we sell, but our product is community…really what we’re selling is a place for people to be in and to be together in community.” – Adam Semeniuk

Adam Semeniuk is the owner and operator of Red Bird Brewing in North Kelowna. Adam’s fascinating work history includes lumber mills, tire shops, Disney’s Club Penguin…and gold mining operations deep in the South American jungle. When Adam focused his entrepreneurial spirit on microbrewing beer, the result was Red Bird, a community space where Kelownians can enjoy high quality beer, good conversation, and live music.

In this episode Adam, Jason, and Joel discuss Red Bird’s origin story, brewery recipe development, what can be turned into great beer (anything!) and the parallels between their industries. As a rapidly-expanding, multi-billion dollar industry in Canada, what can brewing beer teach us about innovation, resiliency, and the future of other industries like cannabis?