I sat down with education innovator Graham Frey to discuss what school is actually for, how structure and choice should be balanced in a child’s life, and why the "falling behind" framework scares families into staying at failing schools.

We get into:

* The six habits every kid should leave school with

* How standardized test hide the reality of public schools

* The tension between teachers and school bureaucracies

* What school choice offers that zip-code schools don't

* Why Graham thinks kids fundamentally want to learn

* How social pressure manipulates parents into propping up public schools

* The ethics of running education experiments on kids

* Student-directed learning vs. traditional structure

* Why the future of education might be found in abandoned malls

* What AI will and won't change about how kids learn

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Learn more about Graham Frey’s work: https://www.grahamfrey.com/

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Outline:

[0:00] Learning to love school

[11:53] Education degrees are useless

[19:17] What is the point of school?

[31:18] Hold kids to standards

[37:09] What if parents aren’t doing their job?

[46:50] Teacher autonomy vs standardization

[55:06] What is the Primer School network?

[1:03:14] How to choose between alternative schools

[1:12:19] Most students are falling behind

[1:18:19] Growth matters more than “grade level”

[1:27:38] Teachers need to be held accountable

[1:32:49] Catholic schools are a missed opportunity

[1:35:47] The pros and cons of school consolidation

[1:49:12] Students need structure before choice

[2:03:37] How rigorous should school be?

[2:17:16] We don’t know what AI means for education

[2:29:09] Parenting from first principles

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