From implementing minesweeper on a TI calculator to becoming a prolific open source maintainer, Evan Phoenix has had quite the journey. In this week's episode, Matt & Angelica sit down with Evan to discuss his journey, from his early days writing basic on his TI calculator, to writing an alternative implementation of Ruby, being GitHub user #7, becoming a Principal Engineer at Hashicorp, starting his own company (with his wife!), and so much more. This episode is packed with life lessons and advice helpful for everyone, from the most junior of engineers to the most seasoned VPs.

A few of the chapters of this week's episode are supporter only content, including long conversations about Evan's involvement with Ruby and a deep discussion of his interesting habit of being an early adopter. Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• Miren
• Rubinius

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:11)
• Chapter 1: The Beginning (02:34)
• Chapter 2: Building In Open Source [Supporter Exclusive] (28:26)
• Chapter 3: The Path To Principal (29:27)
• Chapter 4: Post Hashicorp (54:21)
• Chapter 5: Miren (01:00:31)
• Chapter 6: Being Early [Supporter Exclusive] (01:05:37)
• Chapter 7: East vs West [Supporter Exclusive] (01:05:37)
• Chapter 8: Remote vs In Office [Supporter Exclusive] (01:05:37)
• Chapter 9: Life With Work (01:07:09)
• Chapter 10: The Open Source Funding Problem (01:25:36)
• Epilogue (01:34:16)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:11) - Prologue

Little languages are powerful. From text processing with AWK to calculations with APL, domain specific languages help us do things more concisely and with more precision than with other languages. Anthony Starks knows this well, as he's designed several little languages, including decksh, the focus of this episode, which allows users to create powerful presentations without the hassle of pushing around pixels in Powerpoint. He joins Angelica and Matt to discuss the background of why he created these languages, how they work, and so much more. And we have some fantastic unpopular opinions to round out the episode.

This episode's supporter content is truly fantastic. It includes an extended conversation where the group discusses data visualization in depth, including how Anthony was able to recreate graphics from W. E. B. Du Bois that are challenging or impossible to recreate with regular data visualization tools. Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• entr
• https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/interactive-image-manipulation-with-popi
• https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/giftsh-a-dsl-and-shell-for-image-editing
• decksh object reference
• decksh
• giftsh
• giftsh code
• 2025 Du Bois Challenge
• Du Bois challenge overviews and recaps:
  • https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/du-bois-challenge-2024-recap
  • https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/challenge2023
  • https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/curating-the-number-duboischallenge2022
• little languages
• Du Bois Data Portraits
• Black Lives 1900
• Fyne Canvas:
  • https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/fc-a-high-level-canvas-api-for-the-fyne-toolkit
  • https://github.com/ajstarks/fc
• Giocanvas:
  • https://speakerdeck.com/ajstarks/giocanvas-a-high-level-canvas-api-for-gio
  • https://github.com/ajstarks/giocanvas
• ebiten canvas:
  • https://github.com/ajstarks/ebcanvas
• "Like"

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:29)
• Chapter 1: Why Make DSLs? (04:49)
• Chapter 2: decksh (09:57)
• Chapter 3: Visualizing Data [Supporter Only] (23:34)
• Chapter 4: Documentation (24:22)
• Chapter 5: Metaprogramming (37:33)
• Chpater 6: Good Tools (45:13)
• Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (54:23)
• Epilogue (01:08:21)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:29) - Prologue

Maintaining software is challenging, but monetizing it while properly valuing your time complicate matters even more. Doing all of this for open source projects is a challenge that few have figured out. In this week's episode Matt and Angelica are joined by Carlos Becker to discuss maintaining and monetizing open source projects, what it's like to work out an open source company, and how to value your own time. Plus, we've got some unpopular opinions at the end of the episode.

Supporters get access to an extended conversation including a chapter on valuing time, the tools Carlos uses, and the groups thoughts on AI tooling! Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• Carlos's Website

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:11)
• Chapter 1: How Carlos Got Started (03:12)
• Chapter 2: Open Source Product Management (12:29)
• Chapter 3: Go Releaser's Architecture (15:47)
• Chapter 4: Monetization (23:23)
• Chapter 5: The Value Of Time [Extended Episode Content] (27:05)
• Chapter 6: Life at Charm (27:37)
• Chapter 7: Monetizing Open Source Projects (32:38)
• Chapter 8: Valuing Your Own Time (39:45)
• Chapter 9: The Tools Carlos Loves [Extended Episode Content] (46:57)
• Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (46:57)
• Epilogue (56:06)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:11) - Prologue

Most of us write code for servers and systems with terabytes of storage and gigabytes of RAM. This week, we're talking about Go in the small. Patricio Whittingslow joins Dylan and Angelica to discuss how he got started with Tiny Go; how he's used Go in software ranging from trajectory simulations to rocket fueling systems to rocket engine fuel injectors to 3D modeling; and so much more. To top it all off, he's got some unpopular opinions as well!

Supporters get access to an extended conversation including a bonus unpopular opinion from Patricio, conversations about getting a mechanical engineering degree, and more! You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• 3Blue1Brown
• Teach Yourself Go In 24 Hours
• GopherCon 2023: Cognitive Load and Go - Patricio Whittingslow
• Automate Your Home Using Go
• soypat/lneto
• LTerra
• #44253 proposal: spec: generic parameterization of array sizes

Table of Contents:

• Preface (01:23)
• Chapter 0: Mechanical Engineering (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 1: Pato's Early Years (02:16)
• Chapter 2: Simulating Rocket Trajectories in Go (09:52)
• Chapter 3: Fueling Rockets with Go (14:21)
• Chapter 4: What Makes Go Great? (15:24)
• Chapter 5: Trying to catch (19:01)
• Chapter 6: An Early Unpop! (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 7: TinyGo! (26:40)
• Chapter 8: 3D Design (42:01)
• Chapter 9: Back to aerospace (53:52)
• Chapter 10: Solving Interesting Problems with Go (56:12)
• Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:06:05)
• Epilogue (01:10:29)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:23) - Preface

Fallthrough is a podcast about having conversations in public, and over the last 3 months we've shipped 15 of them! In this episode, Kris, Ian, and Matt sit down to discuss the podcast so far: what we've enjoyed, the feedback we've gotten, how we produce episodes, and so much more. We're excited to take a look at the first 15 episodes we've produced and look forward to making the next 15!

Supporters get access to an extended conversation including chapters on how we've pivoted the podcast, learned about what works and what doesn't, our thoughts on art vs production, and much more. You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:23)
• Chapter 1: The Podcast So Far (02:07)
• Chapter 2: Behind The Scenes (05:53)
• Chapter 3: Our Favorite Episodes (12:59)
• Chapter 4: Pivoting The Podcast (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 5: On Feedback (18:14)
• Chapter 6: Yes, And vs No, But (27:58)
• Chapter 7: Monologing (35:45)
• Chapter 8: Pre & Post Production (43:01)
• Chapter 9: How We Make Episodes (01:01:04)
• Chapter 10: Learning How Things Work (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 11: The Best Feedback (01:08:19)
• Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:13:45)
• Appendix DESIGN: Art vs Production (Supporter Only)
• Epilogue (01:22:27)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:23) - Prologue

APIs are built, not born, so how do we go about actually building them? Well, it starts with design. In this episode, Kris and Ian are joined by Jamie Tanna to talk about API design. From creating a theory of your API, through building its foundation, to actively prototyping as you design, the panel discusses what they've learned over the years to design high quality APIs. At the end we have unpopular opinions, but we also have a bonus behind the scenes look at howe we create episodes of this podcast. Make sure to stick around until the end of the episode for that content!

Supporters get access to an extended conversation about API design, where we continue some conversation that were cut short, dig more into how the podcast is made, and you'll get to hear Kris argue against using REST! You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• Spotlight Prism
• Can I Use?
• Manual of Me

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:11)
• Chapter 1: Designing APIs (02:54)
  • You will make mistakes (03:26)
  • Inventing things from whole cloth (06:29)
  • There is no correct (12:34)
• Chapter 2: A Theory of Your API (17:48)
  • Creating a foundation (31:26)
  • Starting from your database schema (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 3: Prior Art (34:13)
• Chapter 4: Design Requires Code (41:37)
• Chapter 5: The Happy Path (48:19)
• Chapter 6: Application Transactions (53:08)
• Chapter 7: What Is Forever? (57:06)
• Chapter 8: Separate Application & Transfer (01:08:30)
• Chapter 9: Stop Doing RESTful Nonsense (Supporter Only)
• Chapter 10: Concrete Challenges with Correctness (01:11:59)
• Appendix UNPOP: Unpopular Opinions (01:18:44)
  • Jamie's Surprise Unpop (01:18:47)
  • Jamie's Second Unpop (01:23:55)
• Epilogue (01:26:55)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:11) - Prologue

What does it mean to be a senior (or staff) software engineer? How are we preparing the next generation of software engineers to maintain the software we've created? In this episode, Matt and Kris are joined by Bill Kennedy to discuss tech communities, training software engineers, the landscape of learning, how artificial intelligence is affecting it all, and so much more.

Supporters get access to an extended conversation with Bill, where we get into more depth on artificial intelligence, the Go team, and more! You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• The Market for Lemons

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (01:10)
  • Intros & The Rain (01:10)
  • Mr. Gopher Man (02:35)
  • Introducing Bill Kennedy (03:08)
• Chapter 1: Tech Communities & Software Engineer Training (04:57)
  • From Ultimate Go to Ultimate Software Design Live (04:57)
  • Software Engineers & Criticism (10:01)
  • Saying The Wrong Things (15:12)
  • The Times Have Changed (16:08)
  • You Learn More From Your Mistakes (24:44)
• Chapter 2: The Learning Landscape (28:25)
  • The trouble with senior engineering (30:10)
  • The difference between programming and coding (35:04)
  • What is legacy? (39:19)
  • It's All About Packages (44:06)
  • Expanding Into Rust (51:23)
• Chapter 3: Giving Back (59:43)
  • Sustaining open source projects (59:43)
• Chapter 4: Passing The Baton (01:13:28)
  • The need for written documentation (01:27:50)
  • What AI can do for you (01:33:50)
  • When do you do something? (01:40:57)
• Epilogue (01:50:05)
  • Helicopter taxi (01:50:34)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:10) - Prologue

Software is hard to build. From knowing which regulations apply to us to understanding what's in our software, there's a lot to learn. On top of that, regulation is coming for all of us. In this episode, Luis Villa joins Kris, Ian, and Angelica, to discuss the laws and regulations that will change the way that you build and deploy software. We discuss the EU's Cyber Resilience Act, the difficulty in interpreting the law and staying within its bounds, how these new laws differ from what we're used to, artificial intelligence, and so much more.

Supporters get access to an extended conversation with Luis, where we discuss AI, the Deno vs Oracle lawsuit, writing personal code on employer devices, and more! You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• The Draghi Report
• MacPherson v. Buick Motor Co.

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (1:11)
  • Panel introductions (1:24)
  • Introducing Luis Villa (2:32)
• Chapter 1: What's even in our software? (5:58)
  • What is the Cyber Resilience Act? (9:31)
  • Why software engineers need to care (12:06)
  • Ambiguity begets flexibility (15:57)
  • Law is eventually consistent (19:29)
  • The rooms where law is made (21:14)
  • Open source has power (23:51)
  • The reach of regulation (28:25)
  • Thinking on the global scale (36:17)
  • Silicon Union: Rebuilding Silicon Valley in Europe (41:25)
  • Challenges in regulating open source (43:47)
  • Regulations aren't our adversaries (46:47)
  • What's even in this (software) stuff? (51:24)
  • Regulations Sticks vs Monetary Carrots (55:41)
• Chapter 2: AI & Legal Knowledge Graphs (1:06:07)
  • The law lacks a linter (1:10:16)
• Chapter 3: Open Source & Business Licenses (1:16:08)
• Epilogue (1:33:42)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (01:11) - Prologue

Communities play a vital role in our technical and non-technical lives, but how much thought have we put into what makes these spaces valuable? In this episode, Kris is joined by the panel and Kelsey Hightower to discuss communities and their intersection with the digital and non-digital world.

Supporters get access to an extended conversation with Kelsey, where we discuss his views of AI and what he's been up to in retirement! You can get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• What If CSS Grid Changes?
• The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek
• Kitchen Nightmares

Table of Contents:

• Prologue (00:00)
  • Kelsey Introduction (01:18)
  • Panel Introduction (01:39)
  • GopherCon CFP (01:54)
• Chapter 1: Choice (02:46)
  • Why did Kelsey leave the Go community? (02:46)
  • Dylan's first experiences with Go (09:05)
  • A shared vocabulary (10:39)
  • The software relay race (12:30)
  • Go: The Potential Parts (13:37)
  • The challenge of having a Go team (15:00)
  • Yes is forever (25:59)
  • Modules Therapy (27:11)
  • Remember the past & give space to be honest (28:17)
  • Dropping the community baton (31:53)
  • Go by choice (32:19)
  • Wall Street measure of success (35:48)
  • The first date isn't the same as the hundredth (39:36)
  • The leader in you (42:19)
• Chapter 2: Infinite (47:35)
  • Software is an Infinite Game (47:35)
  • Constraints are required (51:30)
  • You cannot build the everything tool (54:21)
  • We need to touch grass (55:39)
  • Augmenting life (59:27)
• Chapter 3: Evolution (01:00:55)
  • Keeping sane in DevRel (01:07:17)
  • Conferences in the current era (01:13:30)
  • Superiority of the Single Track Conference (01:18:04)
  • Kelsey's KubeCon Story (01:21:00)
  • Virtual Conferences need a new term (01:23:38)
  • Conferences need some innovating (01:25:35)
  • Does tech even have communities? (01:27:52)
  • Kelsey's dream talk development path (01:30:06)
• Chapter 4: Kelsey's Retirement (01:42:05)
  • This chapter is supporter only content.
• Epilogue (01:43:34)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (00:00) - Prologue

There are Web APIs everywhere, from the classic REST/HTTP, to GraphQL, to gRPC, we rely on them to get things done each and every day. But how much do we think about the design of these APIs? How do you document an API once you've created it? What even is versioning? Do we really understand HTTP? In this episode, Kris and the panel are joined by Jamie Tanna to discuss APIs, their design, how to document them, and more.

Want to hear us discuss APIs and how we design identifiers? Become a supporter and enjoy bonus content and higher quality audio today, and additional perks and benefits when we add them in the future.

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Notes:

• Web API Versioning Is Insufficient (08:38)
• http.cat (50:03)
• Please Stop Saying "just" (01:12:01)
• jvt.me/elsewhere (01:13:17)

Table of Contents:

• Intro (00:00)
• Preface (01:13)
  • Introducing Jamie Tanna (01:13)
• Prologue - APIs: The Leaky Kitchen Sink of Software (02:12)
  • This chapter is supporter only content. Subscribe at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe!
• Chapter 1 - Versioning & Breaking Changes (02:15)
  • What is a breaking change? (02:17)
  • Communicating breaking changes (05:17)
  • APIs as Contracts (08:32)
• Chapter 2 - API: Annoying Perpetual Interface (08:32)
  • APIs require planning (16:52)
• Chapter 3 - Documenting Designs (21:34)
  • Can OpenAPI save us? (21:34)
  • Design through documentation (30:40)
  • Innovation & API/Transport Separation (34:21)
• Interlude - Version 0 Forever! (44:00)
• Chapter 4 - An Exploration of HTTP (44:26)
  • HTTP and it's Status Codes (44:26)
• Chapter 5 - Identifying Identifiers (57:42)
  • How to choose identifiers (57:42)
• Appendix UNPOP - Unpopular Opinions (58:01)
  • Dylan's Unpop (58:46)
  • Jamie's Unpop (01:01:51)
  • Matt's Unpop (01:07:35)
  • Ian's Unpop (01:09:17)
  • Kris' Unpop (01:10:47)
  • Just stop using just (01:12:01)
• Epilogue (01:13:13)
  • Where to find Jamie (01:13:13)
• Outro (01:13:27)

Hosts

• Website
• Bluesky
• Threads
• X/Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

• (00:00) - Intro