Well, we recently talked about the first Chronicle of Narnia … the book! Yet many fans found or rediscovered this series thanks to the Disney-distributed, Walden Media–made film from director Andrew Adamson. Want to feel old? That was two decades ago! So now we shall look back at Narnia’s journey to the box office with The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which released twenty years ago on Dec. 9, 2005.

Mark Joseph is a music and film producer, author, columnist and founder of MJM Entertainment Group, a multi-faceted entertainment company with interests in film, publishing, music, TV production and film consulting.

Joseph got his start in television as an anchor for NHK and CNN’s The Entertainment Report in the 1990’s and his company MJM produced documentaries and supervised the international release of over a hundred albums by various pop and rock artists.

In addition to producing his own films, he oversees a marketing team that has marketed 75 films since 2001. From 2000-2005 he worked in development and marketing for Walden Media and Crusader Entertainment and oversaw a grassroots marketing team.

He has served as a producer on 15 films, including Max Rose starring Jerry Lewis, The Vessel starring Martin Sheen, America, Japan: Searching For The Dream, Frank vs. God and others.

Joseph is the author of four books including The Lion, The Professor & The Movies: Narnia’s Journey To The Big Screen and has been a regular contributor to publications like Forbes, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, USA Today, The Huffington Post and FoxNews.com.

He is currently a senior columnist for Newsweek and hosts the podcast The Mark Joseph Show.

Most recently, he produced the film Reagan, starring Dennis Quaid and published the book Making REAGAN: A Memoir from the Producer of the REAGAN Movie. He also produced the film’s two soundtracks including songs from Bob Dylan, Clint Black, Gene Simmons of KISS, Tanya Tucker and others.

Mark and his wife Kara have six children and reside in Southern California.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe film released Dec. 9, 2005.

I found the Narnia series in my school library when I was in 4th grade, and yes, they were in the proper order. It was a watershed moment for me. I bought myself a boxed set a few years later. Boy, did I look for portals! When I get into a discussion about the book order, I point out The Magician’s Nephew is a prequel, explaining the back story of the first book.

“We do not celebrate Christmas that way.” “We do not read those kinds of books.” “We ‘do not handle, do not taste, do not touch.’” We know our world is full of rebellion against God’s law. But many people overreact to moral license with a strict imposing of out-of-context or made-up laws. Faithful saints call this legalism, and Christian fantasy fans know plenty about this. When that social-media pastor rebukes your favorite sci-fi, or that relative raises a judgy eyebrow at holiday dinners, how you can respond with grace, truth, and love for legalists?

Long ago, before the great lion Aslan bounded onto bookshelves, C. S. Lewis wrote a science fiction novel set on mythological Mars. From there, the sequel carried Dr. Elwin Ransom by angels to the sister planet Venus. And from there … the Ransom/Cosmic/Space Trilogy descended to the dull world of corrupt college boards, inner-ring politics, and a secret technocracy bent on world domination with the aid of mad science and demons and everything. Eighty years after That Hideous Strength, we explore why C. S. Lewis created this earthbound and weird and wonderful pre-political supernatural thriller.

That hideously obscure front cover image.

Well, we just talked about the first Chronicle of Narnia … the book! Yet many fans found or rediscovered this series thanks to the Disney-distributed, Walden Media–made film from director Andrew Adamson. Want to feel old? That was two decades ago! So now we shall look back at Narnia’s journey to the box office with The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which released twenty years ago on Dec. 9, 2005.

“Suddenly Aslan came bounding into it.” That is how C. S. Lewis described the plot twist in his creative process for The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. “I don’t know where the Lion came from or why He came. But once He was there, He pulled the whole story together.” And in turn, this story has pulled together the imaginations of millions across the world. Now, 75 years after the first Chronicles of Narnia book was published, let’s explore how this changed fantasy forever.

Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age-group I’d write for; drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out ‘allegories’ to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn’t write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn’t even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord.

—C. S. Lewis, “Sometimes Fairy Stories May Say Best What’s To Be Said,” (1956)

All my seven Narnian books, and my three science-fiction books, began with seeing pictures in my head. At first they were not a story, just pictures. The Lion all began with a picture of a Faun carrying an umbrella and parcels in a snowy wood. This picture had been in my mind since I was about sixteen. Then one day, when I was about forty, I said to myself: ‘Let’s try to make a story about it.’

At first I had very little idea how the story would go. But then suddenly Aslan came bounding into it. I think I had been having a good many dreams of lions about that time. Apart from that, I don’t know where the Lion came from or why He came. But once He was there He pulled the whole story together, and soon He pulled the six other Narnian stories in after Him.

So you see that, in a sense, I know very little about how this story was born. That is, I don’t know where the pictures came from. And I don’t believe anyone knows exactly how he ‘makes things up’. Making up is a very mysterious thing. When you ‘have an idea’ could you tell anyone exactly how you thought of it?

—C. S. Lewis, “It All Began with a Picture,” 1960

[Narnia’]s beauties often get blunted or made lukewarm by the persistent myth spread by well-meaning readers, including many Christians, that the Narnia books are merely “allegorical.” (For example, one author even wrote that Professor Kirke’s mansion “is symbolic of the church” while the wardrobe “symbolizes the Bible.”)

But the “allegory” label ignores the stories’ true purpose according to Lewis, who insisted on calling his world a supposal. In one letter, Lewis wrote that his Narnia stories answered the question, “What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?” Lewis then concluded, “This is not allegory at all.”

Case closed. And Aslan be praised that it is closed, because if we turn these stories into mere allegory, we might end up using Narnia like a mere code or container pointing to “higher” ideals.

—The Chronicles of Narnia series review, Lorehaven, March 2020

Early 2000s edition, with cover based on the classic Pauline Baynes illustration.

Long ago, before the great lion Aslan bounded onto bookshelves, C. S. Lewis wrote a science fiction novel set on mythological Mars. From there his hero Dr. Elwin Ransom was carried by angels to the sister planet Venus. And from there … the Ransom/Cosmic/Space Trilogy descended to the dull world of college board meetings, inner-ring politics, and a secret technocratic society bent on world domination with the aid of mad science and demons and everything. Eighty years after That Hideous Strength was published, we explore why C. S. Lewis created this earthbound and weird and wonderful pre-political supernatural thriller.

We still believe in cultural engagement. That’s the Christian mission to share our faith in the real world, seeking to win souls to Jesus. These souls naturally seek biblical influences in stories, songs, and beyond. So why do some believers claim that they want “cultural engagement” but then, when angry or manipulative anti-Christian critics engage us right back, throw up their hands and call for pietistic separation?

So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for

“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;

as even some of your own poets have said,

“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Acts 17:22–31

Just a note about your recent episode about aliens, and the theory one of you proposed about “supernatural tech”. I actually agree with this…Besides what you mentioned about Elijah being caught up in a “chariot of fire,” there are some excellent and interesting passages in the non-canonical Book of Enoch that talk about a Watcher (one of the angels, not necessarily a fallen one, usually described as Uriel) who takes Enoch on a “tour of heaven” in a craft that sounds a lot like a flying ship or craft he describes as a cloud or as being made of spirit…I have a whole lot more I could say about this, with my beliefs being informed, in part, by the work of Michael Heiser. The point is, do I think these demons (and fallen Watchers, though most of them are trapped in the Abyss until judgement) have physical technology, and can they appear in physical form as aliens? Absolutely. Do I think they may be “leaking” technology to humans for our detriment? It absolutely fits their M.O.

“Suddenly Aslan came bounding into it.” That is how C. S. Lewis described the plot twist in his creative process for The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. “I don’t know where the Lion came from or why He came. But once He was there, He pulled the whole story together.” And in turn, this story has pulled together the imaginations of millions across the world. Now, 75 years after the first Chronicles of Narnia book was published, let’s explore how this changed fantasy forever.

To fight real monsters, we don’t need toxic empathy or the notion that exorcisms can resolve all demonic problems. Instead we start with the gospel of Jesus Christ that alone brings holiness. Yet how do we also train our imaginations with better stories to help us battle the beasts? Geoffrey Reiter returns to the studio to explore how great literature reflects God’s grace that helps us defeat the darkness.

Geoffrey Reiter is Associate Chair of Arts and Sciences and Coordinator of Humanities at Lancaster Bible College. He is also an Associate Editor at the website Christ and Pop Culture, where he frequently writes about weird horror and dark fantasy. As a scholar of weird fiction, Reiter has published academic articles on such authors as H. P. Lovecraft, Arthur Machen, Bram Stoker, and Clark Ashton Smith. His poetry and fiction have previously appeared in Spectral Realms, Star*Line, Psenumbra, ParABnormal, The Mythic Circle, 34 Orchard, and Black Wings VII. His book The Lime Kiln and Other Enchanted Spaces was published by Hippocampus Press earlier this year.

Listen to this episode from our first year.

“Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

—Romans 12:21

We still believe in cultural engagement. That’s the Christian mission to share our faith in the real world, seeking to win souls to Jesus. These souls naturally seek biblical influences in stories, songs, and beyond. So let’s explore a growing challenge: why some believers claim that they want “cultural engagement” but then, when angry or manipulative anti-Christian critics engage us right back, effectively surrender and call for pietistic separation.

Demons do bad things in the Bible and in the modern world. But how does a fallen spirit get around its limitations as an immaterial being? Meanwhile, how do creators of movies about demons get around the obvious budget limitations and need for showing not telling? Answer in both cases: demons “possess” people. Even in sci-fi the bad “entities” do this. But is this really the best word to use for how these Satanic agents can really influence, provoke, or oppress human beings?

The term demon possession is an unfortunate term that has found its way into some English translations of the Bible but is not really reflected in the Greek text. The Greek New Testament can speak of people who “have a demon” (Matt. 11:18; Luke 7:33; 8:27; John 7:20; 8:48, 49, 52; 10:20), but it never uses language that suggests that a demon actually “possesses” someone.

The problem with the terms demon possession and demonized is that they give the nuance of such strong demonic influence that they seem to imply that the person who is under demonic attack has no choice but to succumb to it. They suggest that the person is unable any longer to exercise his or her will and is completely under the domination of the evil spirit. While this may have been true in extreme cases such as that of the Gerasene demoniac (see. Mark 5:1–20; note that after Jesus casts the demons out of him, he was then “in his right mind,” v. 15), it is certainly not true with many cases of demonic attack or conflict with demons in many people’s lives.

—Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology, p. 423

Not All Evil and Sin is From Satan and Demons, but Some Is. If we think of the overall emphasis of the New Testament epistles, we realize that very little space is given to discussing demonic activity in the lives of believers or methods to resist and oppose such activity. The emphasis is on telling believers not to sin but to live lives of righteousness. For example, in 1 Corinthians, when there is a problem of “dissensions,” Paul does not tell the church to rebuke a spirit of dissension, but simply urges them to “agree” and “be united in the same mind and the same judgment” (1 Cor. 1:10).

—Grudem, p. 420

Since the term demon possessed is a misleading one to use in all cases, especially when referring to Christians, I would prefer to avoid it altogether. It seems better simply to recognize that there can be varying degrees of demonic attack or influence on people, even on Christians, and to leave it at that. In all cases the remedy will be the same anyway: rebuke the demon in the name of Jesus and command it to leave …

—Grudem, p. 424–425

I don’t think that demon was afraid of me humanly.  I don’t have any human power to deal with demons.  In fact, Jerry and I didn’t know what to do.  We started trying to send the demons away.  We sent them everywhere you could think of, the pit, the abyss, Phoenix, anywhere hot, you know. And the bottom…the bottom line is they didn’t go anywhere and so we just were praying and saying, “You know, this isn’t working, this casting out thing isn’t working. I’m not Jesus and we’re not apostles and we don’t have authority over that kingdom.” There’s only one way that this girl will ever be delivered and that is when Christ delivers her in the act of salvation.  So we wrestled, literally physically trying to restrain her and get her in a chair and she was so exhausted physically and finally calmed down and we gave her the gospel.  And she confessed her sin. I’ll never forget it, just really gushed out her sin before the Lord and embraced Jesus Christ and then it was just this calm that came everywhere.  There was deliverance.  Nothing to do with me, nothing to do with a formula, nothing to do with an exorcism, nothing to do with that at all, that…that is not what deals with demons.  She needed to be delivered from the kingdom of darkness, you understand that?  And she was. She was.

—John MacArthur sermon transcript from Grace to You, “Jesus’ Authority over Demons, Part 2,” July 16, 2000

To fight real monsters, we don’t need toxic empathy or the notion that exorcisms can resolve all demonic problems. Instead we start with the gospel of Jesus Christ that alone brings holiness. Yet how do we also train our imaginations with better stories to help us battle the beasts? Geoffrey Reiter returns to the studio to explore how great literature reflects God’s grace that helps us defeat the darkness.

Many fans love the idea of demon hunters, whether they are Dr. Abraham Van Helsing’s warrior band, hyper-disciplined young shonen slayers, immortal elves, or K-pop stars. But in response to these righteous crusades, some fans find themselves defending the monsters. Are they really that bad? Shouldn’t we find ways to empathize with them? Today we explore the thorny problem of fans who won’t just defend but actually liken themselves to demons.

Demons do bad things in the Bible and in the modern world. But how does a fallen spirit get around his limitations as an immaterial being? Meanwhile, how do creators of movies about demons get around the obvious budget limitations and need for showing not telling? Answer in both cases: demons “possess” people. Even in sci-fi the bad “entities” do this. But is this really the best word to use for how these Satanic agents can really influence, provoke, or oppress human beings?

Thanks to all the human drama of this year, you may have missed the news about even more professional military men been sharing testimonies about their witnessing unknown aerial phenomena blasting through the laws of physics. These sightings are not going away, forcing us to reckon with some truly potential scenarios. If aliens really invaded Earth, where from and how would they do it? And how do we discern these invasions and fight back?

Listen to last year’s previous episode entry in our Armies of the Aliens series.

Many fans love demon hunters, whether they’re Dr. Van Helsing’s band of brothers, hyper-disciplined young shonen, immortal elves, or K-pop stars. But in response to these righteous crusades, many other fans find themselves defending demons. Are they really that bad? Shouldn’t we find ways to empathize with their plight? We will explore the thorny problem of fans who won’t just defend but actually liken themselves to demons.

How often does this happen to you? You’re a plain, ordinary, gorgeous heroine, who’s suddenly abducted by aliens and taken to Planet Gladiator Violence VI. There you encounter a bull-headed man with piercings in all his massive muscles, and various events ensue, and if we kept up this description the grown-ups would not let you listen to this podcast episode. And that’s probably the tamest version of what’s now called “romantasy.” These kinds of monster stories are winning legions of female fans. What manner of perversity is this?

Onscreen writer Parker J. Cole is a USA Today Bestselling author of historical romance as well as a speaker, podcast host, and CEO of the podcast network PJC Media. As an author, Parker enjoys exploring history through the vehicle of romance. Her speaking topics focus on inspiration for aspiring authors. For over a decade, she has interviewed authors from all over the world via her podcast network. Consumed with a plethora of interests that keep her life busy, she lives in Detroit, Michigan. Visit her website at ParkerJCole.com.

In all the wildness of this year, you may have missed a stunning bonus feature. Even more professional military men have been sharing testimonies on Capitol Hill about their witnessing unknown aerial phenomena blasting through the laws of physics. These sightings are not going away, forcing us to reckon with some truly potential scenarios. If aliens really invaded Earth, how would they do it? And how we discern these invasions and fight back?

Distortionists in the real world corrupt the beautiful, good, and true.[1. Photo by Bree Anne on Unsplash.] Some individuals who fall into such a dark side might make themselves beyond repentance—that is, reprobate. We might call them “ghouls.” … And such were some of you. We wanted to talk about monsters today, and we’ll start next week. First, let’s turn from the darkness and into the light, keeping our eyes open for hazards as we head into an exciting, messy, promising season of … spiritual revival and renewal for the souls of men and women?

Bethel McGrew has a doctorate in math and is a widely published freelance writer. Her work has appeared in First Things, National Review, The Spectator, and many other national and international outlets. Her Substack, Further Up, is one of the top paid newsletters in “Faith & Spirituality” on the platform. She has also contributed to two essay anthologies on Jordan Peterson. When not writing social criticism, she enjoys writing about literature, film, music, and history.

“The salvation of a single soul is more important than the production or preservation of all the epics and tragedies in the world.”

—C. S. Lewis, “Christianity and Literature,” in Christian Reflections, page 10

Listen to our episode 136 about keeping politics in their rightful place.

I met Charlie [Kirk] on multiple occasions and listened to his daily show religiously. I have never met a more humble, gracious, generous person who consistently sought to elevate those around him.

The first time we met was in 2020 when my wife and I flew down to Phx from Fargo in order to attend the Protect the Count rally the week of the election. After the rally, we were able to tour the headquarters and met him there. We prayed with him, then he invited us to stay, bought us dinner and let us sit in the studio to watch the livestream. While we were there, we also met his pastor Rob McCoy who was coming on the show to speak.

Charlie and TPUSA so impressed us, we became supporting members and unofficial ambassadors. We attended every event we could. Anytime he saw us in the audience, he would call us out by name! I once corrected him on some Bible fact, and he was gracious, saying, “A wise man loves correction.”

Three weeks before the assassination, we saw him at event in South Carolina. We were invited into the green room backstage at the theater. He jumped up to welcome us, fondly introduced us to the host of the event as his “superfans,” complimented me on the email feedback that had sent him. Then, he put me on the spot. “What’s on your mind, today, Caleb?” I asked a question about how Christians should Biblically view the current physical nation of Israel. So, he suggested that myself and the hosting pastor, who was wearing an Israel/America flag pin, have a quick debate while he himself moderated. He supplied clarifying Bible verses and facts about the current Israeli state. He was very kind to elevate me rather than himself in that situation. He gave me a great compliment, “When Caleb speaks, I listen.”

How often does this happen? You’re a plain, ordinary, gorgeous heroine, who’s suddenly abducted by aliens and taken to Planet Gladiator Violence VI. There you encounter a bull-headed man with piercings in all his massive muscles, and events ensue, and if we kept up this description the grown-ups would not let you listen to this podcast. And that’s probably the tamest version of what’s now called “romantasy.” These kinds of monster stories are winning legions of female fans. What manner of perversity is this?