On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the fascinating tension between fear of man and fear of God with special guest Ed Welch and guest co-host Jonathan Holmes, Executive Director of Fieldstone Counseling.

We trace Ed's journey of writing his influential book "When People Are Big and God Is Small," which began as a response to the codependency movement of the 1980s. Through our conversation, we discover how Ed's perspective shifted from a sharp critique of cultural trends to a more pastoral approach as he began seeing these themes everywhere in Scripture.

We discuss the evolution from codependency to today's independent mindset, and explore how the fear of God isn't about being afraid, but rather about awe and reverence that draws us closer to Him. Through personal stories and biblical wisdom, we unpack what it means to love Jesus more than we love the approval of others.

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 Anchored Virtual provides practical help to those hurting, by anchoring their hope in Jesus, and helping others gain a better understanding of his promises. We offer reputable, biblical counsel to those suffering or experiencing difficult seasons. Our counselors are highly trained, and bring a vast experience in addressing the various issues of life.

To meet with a counselor, visit anchoredvirtual.com and schedule an appointment today.

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We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.

In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.

The first episode drops February 1st. I hope you'll join us.

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 Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.

This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.

Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at anchoredvirtual.com/tgc