Fertility Life Raft

Trigger Warning: Miscarriage

I had the pleasure of chatting to Natasha Lunn in today's episode. I remember feeling incredibly humbled that she got in touch to say this podcast was helpful for her. I feel really honored and grateful to Natasha for coming onto this podcast and sharing in this conversation. Within the last 2 weeks, she has released her first book - Conversations on Love - and it is just absolutely amazing! There are so many little golden, magical nuggets, and I just love it so much. I'm delighted to share this episode with you!

Natasha is a writer, author and journalist, who works as features director at Red magazine. She also writes a bimonthly email newsletter called Conversations on Love.

In this episode, we speak about:

• How important it is to name and make space for messy feelings

• Feeling like there’s no “right decision” to make in particular moments, and the shame that accompanies these decisions

• How waiting to start treatments can feel like you’re stuck between two possible futures

• The Unbearable Unknown and how to live with uncertainty

• By divorcing the hope from the outcome it gives you the space to live.

• There is no hierarchy of love and mother-child love doesn’t have to be the defining energy of your life

• Love is not the thing you’re given or you acquire; it’s the daily choices you make and how you move through the world.

• and more!

Powerful Quotes:

"I think we need to get much better at making space for these messy feelings. Those conversations have made me understand that we have to honor our individual heartbreaks because if we don’t and we don’t deal with that, it’ll show up somewhere else."

"Hoping in the face of uncertainty is not just courageous, but we cannot love anyone without doing that."

"You’re being kind to yourself by hoping. you are saying “I’m going to allow you to hope during this space because that’s a more joyful way to survive this horrible time I’m going through."

"It’s okay to have one day where you feel really sorry for yourself. Allow yourself to indulge the misery. Then tomorrow, just get up and try again. It’s useful to make space to let ourselves be a little cynical now and again."

"Life is this unfolding thing and when we can see that everybody else experiences in life what unfolds too, I think it just helps us to be a little bit gentler."

Connect with Natasha:

www.instagram.com/natashachloelunn

www.instagram.com/conversations_on_love

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose . As always please take a moment to rate and review right now or half way through or at the end - it makes the world of difference!! Thank you so much to everyone who has already.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trigger Warning: Mentions of suicidal ideation, mental health struggles, and rape

I had the pleasure of chatting to Kat Brown in today's episode. I first met Kat at a women's circle I was hosting. She was so honest and open and raw and just had this magnetic quality, that I really wanted to learn more about her. This conversation with Kat is no different. She shares her honest and important story, expressing what it's like to go through this experiences and how she's finding life right now.

My hope with sharing Kat's honest and raw story - and all those which have endings we hope won't be our own endings - is that you know whatever happens, you'll be okay.

Kat is a freelance journalist covering arts, social media culture, and equestrian travel. Her work has appeared in The Telegraph, the i, the independent, Grazia and others.

In this episode, we speak about:

• Kat’s journey from growing up to where she is now

• The sense of claustrophobia when you’re trying to conceive and feeling like there’s no way out

• The importance of not bulldozing real, raw feelings and emotions with toxic positivity

• How common it is to become so consumed by what we’re trying to achieve that we lose all the little parts of ourselves

• The realness of Disenfranchised Grief, and how it needs to become more normalized and supported in society

• Not everyone is having pets over babies - the companionship is incredible!

• Being unsure of what’s coming “next” is okay, and how the passing of time is an important part of the process of healing and growth

• and more!

Powerful Quotes:

We were excited about it in the same way you’re excited about getting a new carpet...Then it just didn’t happen. And it kept not happening. 

When I had that realization, it was like the universe collapsed into a black hole. Lost all ability to think, be or do anything. All my feelings were just concentrated on this insane, laser focused, diamond sharp devastation.

I remember going: Everything is lovely. How can everything be so broken and awful when the world is so sunny and beautiful and lovely?

Not even remotely grateful for infertility, but life happens and something else happens after that, and eventually we may be able to chart a course.

Something I do feel really happy about is that I don't feel like the infertility is my fault or it’s my fault for not being able to give my husband any children.

The only reason I'm in any kind of all right state right now is because of the passing of time. Unfortunately when something really aggressively, violently bad to you happens, the only thing that’s going to “fix” that is time.

Connect with Kat:

https://twitter.com/katbrown

https://www.instagram.com/katbrownwrites/

https://www.katbrownwrites.com/

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose . As always please take a moment to rate and review right now or half way through or at the end - it makes the world of difference!! Thank you so much to everyone who has already.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I had the pleasure of chatting to Dr. Anita Mitra, Gynae Geek, in this episode How to Self Advocate. It was so great to hear her perspective on the doctor/patient relationship and hear what we can do to advocate for ourselves even in the middle of everything. I hope this episode will be helpful to you and give you the tools and empowerment to self advocate for the treatment that you need and want!

Dr Anita Mitra is an NHS doctor specialising in Obstetrics & Gynaecology who also appears online as 'The Gynae Geek', and has been described as 'A trusted source of knowledge in an era of self-proclaimed gurus & internet-experts'. She has a PhD from Imperial College London for her research into cervical cancer & the vaginal microbiome. She has published her research in clinical & scientific journals and is an internationally renowned expert in the vaginal microbiome and is often invited to present her research & as a keynote speaker at various learned societies in Europe & America.

She continues to work full-time as a doctor in the NHS. During her time in the hospital, Anita realised there were so many myths & misconceptions about Women's Health, often complicated by inaccurate information & false claims online. She, therefore, embarked on her mission to provide reliable yet engaging healthcare information, educate and empower women about how their bodies work & cut through the nonsense about Women's health.

In this episode, we speak about:

• The importance of a two-way street of communication between doctors and their patients

• The difficulty of finding great engaging sources of reliable healthcare information

• Tips for self-advocating in medical consultation

• How powerful it can be writing a letter to your doctor which may provoke them to reflect on what they do and might help them to change their practice

• Retaining dignity and ownership during vulnerable experiences

• Recommendation for apps to aid with tracking your cycle

• and more!

Powerful Quotes:

“When you can use information and improve someone’s experience, you can’t put a value on that.”

“I think we have to sit a little bit uncomfortable with the truth that unfortunately there are lots of people who are finding it really difficult to get the medical help that they need, and we really have to do something about it.”

“Having a blue tick doesn’t always mean you’re putting reliable information out on social media.”

“You have to make somebody feel comfortable enough to make themselves vulnerable in that consultation and say, ‘Can you explain that again because I don’t understand.’”

Connect with Dr. Anita:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gynaegeek

Website - https://www.gynaegeek.com/

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose . As always please take a moment to rate and review right now or half way through or at the end - it makes the world of difference!! Thank you so much to everyone who has already.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trigger Warning: Infertility

I had the pleasure of chatting to Samantha Busch in this episode Strength, Empowerment, and Community. I was so excited when I approached Samantha to see if she might be happy to speak with me, and I was really moved by her honesty and openness as she shared her story with me. I hope this episode will be an encouragement to you!

Samantha Busch is a wife (to NASCAR champion Kyle Busch), mother, author, entrepreneur, lifestyle blogger, infertility warrior, philanthropist and co-owner of a professional race team. Busch’s first book, Fighting Infertility, was published on March 30, 2021.

In this episode, we speak about:

• The support and blessing of connection within the Infertility Community

• How Samantha and Kyle manage their relationship

• What going through Secondary infertility is like

• Why ‘just adopt’ is such an unhelpful comment for everyone involved

• The importance of being aware of how each person deals with their feelings and having compassion within relationships and with ourselves

• How discussing boundaries with friends and family actually creates less awkward or hurtful situations in the long run

• The items in Samantha’s Life Raft and how her faith plays a massive role of comfort

• Samantha’s Bundle of Joy Foundation positive impacts on children AND parents

• Finding humor and joy in the small things, as well as the importance of taking everything day by day, one step at at time

• and more!

Powerful Quotes:

“Before you’re even going to start trying, you need to know the cards you're dealt.”

“I do find advice from the fertility community from people who have gone through it to be helpful...but I caution people both on social and in the book, it’s okay if you don’t know what to say, but don’t try to fill that void with unsolicited advice. That doesn’t help someone who’s tried it all.”

“Just to have that sense of connection and somewhere you can go to turn your problems over and get that guidance and feel filled up. I think sometimes when you’re going through struggles you just feel so empty, and then when you go to church and you hear the word and that message, it fills you up and lifts your spirits and helps you keep fighting through each day.”

“Nothing about infertility is easy so you have to do everything you can do to find that comfort, love, and support to manage it.”

“I honestly think for any woman going through infertility, you are so much stronger than you know. When you look back on what you’ve had to face and overcome and still keep moving forward, it’s very powerful. It’s easy to feel defeated or broken or less than when you’re going through infertility, but when you take a step back and see it all, it’s something you should be proud of.”

Connect with Samantha:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/samanthabusch

Website - https://www.samanthabusch.com

Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/samanthabusch

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/mrssamanthabusch

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose . As always please take a moment to rate and review right now or half way through or at the end - it makes the world of difference!! Thank you so much to everyone who has already.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trigger Warning: Baby Loss

This week I had the pleasure of chatting to Sophie Martin, otherwise known as @theinfertilemidwife on Instagram. This chat is really packed with helpful information, personal insight and it’s so moving to listen to Sophie’s story but so uplifting too. So looking forward to sharing this conversation with you!

Sophie Martin is a Registered Midwife and has worked in a Central London hospital for the past nine years. One of her special interests is antenatal education, and she regularly teaches on antenatal courses. She has written for the Royal College of Midwives Magazine, alongside blog posts, and appearing on Radio and podcasts.

Sophie has personal experience of fertility treatment, having undergone 6 rounds of IVF herself. She also writes about the loss of her sons, Cecil & Wilfred who were born very prematurely.

In this episode, we speak about:

• How Sophie was able to find strength through grief in the loss of her twin boys

• Sophie’s ability to work as a midwife while personally experiencing loss and infertility

• The items of support in Sophie’s Life Raft

• The importance of establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries within relationships within infertility

• Advice for finding an infertility clinic

• How to find the confidence to self advocate even when you’re feeling very vulnerable and desperate

• Where to find legitimate research pages to stop yourself from falling down the google rabbit hole

• and more!

Powerful Quotes:

"There’s no infertility handbook, no one tells you how to negotiate relationships."

"It’s okay to get home and not remember or not understand. Just pick up the phone or write an email and be really persistent. There should be a standard of care, and this is potentially your one shot at something so massive … Other people get 12 months of the year to try for a baby, whereas people doing IVF get one chance. It’s your body, your cycle."

"Coping is a funny word. I don’t know if anyone really copes [with losing a baby]. You just get up every day…or you don’t. But, the days pass."

Connect with Sophie:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the.infertile.midwife

Website - https://www.theinfertilemidwife.com

Other links mentioned:

Petition for care after miscarriage - https://actions.tommys.org/a/miscarriage-petition?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=miscarriage-lancet&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAjwz_WGBhA1EiwAUAxIcWLDZyQffyl1p0Lb-dTwmEB4nDK1w-7r1vUuxrt21BzEAn355bTjoRoC0J0QAvD_BwE

Contribute to Tommy's fundraiser - https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-display/showROFundraiserPage?userUrl=500milesfor5losses&pageUrl=8

Additional Resources:

Cat Strawbridge: Hangout Community - https://www.catstrawbridge.com/a/v867x

Zoe Clark Coates - https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/zoe-clark-coates/pregnancy-after-loss/9781409195948

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose . As always please take a moment to rate and review right now or half way through or at the end - it makes the world of difference!! Thank you so much to everyone who has already.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trigger Warning: Infertility

I had the honor of chatting to Amber Izzo in this episode IVF Postcode Lottery and Taking Ownership. We speak about her amazing Fight For IVF Campaign, and talk about working through the frustration of being told, "You're young. You'll be fine!" and what it feels like on the other side of those words. We also have a good chat about how to stay in your own lane while still being part of this supportive community, and how important is is to not compare our stories with anyone else. So looking forward to sharing this conversation with you!

Amber is navigating the world of infertility having been through multiple cycles of failed IVF, embarking on another cycle whilst acting as a fertility advocate, leading the Fight For IVF campaign, and the founder of Innovation Fertility, an online support hub for people trying to conceive!

In this episode, we speak about:

• Working through the frustration of being told, “You’re young. You’ve got plenty of time. It’ll be fine.” 

• Amber’s choice to take action and begin making changes through her Fight For IVF campaign

• The importance of taking ownership and identifying where we are responsible in finding a way through infertility in a more positive and proactive way

• What support and tools Amber has in her Life Raft

• Learning how to stay in your own lane while still being part of a supportive community

• Reframing what positivity means for each individual experience

• Innovation Fertility as a space created from a desire to offer support Amber wished she’d had at the start of her infertility journey

Powerful Quotes:

"It’s forced me to be a bit more confident in myself. Infertility has done that in general; it’s forced me to really get to know myself as a person."

"You can learn and take on board what other people say to you but ultimately you have to stay true to yourself."

"I’m not accepting of the fact I’m infertile. I don’t accept it but I have resigned to it. I understand this is the situation I’m in, and all I can do is ride the wave."

"When I think about accepting my situation, I don’t want to accept the fact I`m infertile. I don't want that to be my story. That it’s my beginning and my end. But I resign to the fact that this is the situation I’m in right now and I resign to the fact that my path to parenthood isn’t going to be easy. I accept it’s the situation I’m in, but it’s not who I am."

Connect with Amber:

Instagram - www.instagram.com/amber.izzo

Website - www.amberizzo.com

Innovation Fertility - www.innovationfertility.com

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the social narrative we see around fertility too...) Learn more about me at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trigger Warning: Infertility

I had the pleasure of starting off Series 3 by chatting to Aisha Balesaria in this episode Finding Happiness, Whatever Happens. This is a powerful conversation which I hope will encourage you to feel empowered in taking space and time to process your experiences, as well as to find happiness for yourself each and every single day.

Aisha and her husband spent 10 years trying to conceive and finally decided to embrace a childfree-after-infertility life. With real courage and determination, they eventually got to a place of healing and acceptance. Aisha is now a coach, and her aim is to empower those struggling with infertility or chronic illness.

In this episode, we speak about:

• The effects of hormones and medication on our bodies and our minds during treatments.

• How reaching rock bottom can often be the catalyst for moving you into a much healthier and more positive and more uplifting point

• The importance of space and time needed to process what happened in the past and currently in order to move into that next chapter and new mindset

• What waking up and finding happiness looks like for someone who identifies as childfree after trying fertility

• How it feels not to feel triggered by pregnancy announcements and baby showers

• The things in Aisha’s Life Raft

and Clean PJs!!

Powerful Quotes:

"It got to a point where I just couldn’t carry on anymore, and it was literally infertility or me, and I chose me." 

"Everyone has their own way of navigating how they get through grief and sadness but I would always advocate for therapy for being the best component for helping me through grief and sadness."

"I understand why we’re not included in the narrative. We’re peoples’ worst nightmare: “I'm not going to end up like Aisha. I’m not going to end up like her.” Not having a baby is still a viable option. You can have a happy life. My husband and I are living proof of that." 

"At the end of the day, I have to make my life the best life it can be, even though there’s something I wanted that isn’t here."

Connect with Aisha:

Instagram - www.instagram.com/mindbodyrevival_coach

Twitter - https://twitter.com/mindbodyrevival

Website - www.mindbodyrevivalcoach.com

Thank you for listening to the Fertility Life Raft! Your thoughts on our topics are really important to hear...this is definitely a conversation between us all so please do drop me a line [email protected] if you've got anything you want to share, or discuss after listening. If you enjoyed this podcast it would mean the world if you left a rating/review - thank you! Join our Instagram community for more support: www.instagram.com/thisisalicerose. You're not alone.

I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

About Alice Rose

Hi! I'm Alice, the fertility mentor and I am on a mission to support and empower anyone trying to grow their family (and while I’m at it, changing the global social narrative around fertility too...) Come and try a mini mindset course or 5 minute meditation at www.thisisalicerose.com

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I feel very humbled to be able to bring you this episode. I recently had this conversation with my friend Zara Dawson. Afterwards, I was really struck by the power of just sitting down with a cuppa, and listening. I hope you'll do the same... We speak about: - Zara and Lex's experience of going through a termination for medical reasons - the positive change Zara is doing so much to drive to support those going through such traumatic loss - the current lack of representation there is in media; major organisations and within the baby loss and infertility communities and why this must shift now. "I truly believe if we saw this written about and saw those four letters TFMR - we would feel part of this too. And be acknowledged. That’s all we want." "You walk into the hospital with a baby kicking away and you walk out with a heart so heavy you feel like you're drowning. You just feel heavy." "One lady wrote to me and said she asked for support, but her hospital told her ‘we don’t think you’d be welcome in a room with people who didn’t choose to lose their babies’. Change has to happen and it has to start today." Zara, her husband Lex and their son Jax have been through something no family should have to experience. The revelation that there are more cases of TFMR in the UK than registered stillbirths was really shocking to me and I realised I had a responsibility to help Zara with her mission to open up conversations around it by sharing on this platform. I urge you to have a listen to this episode, even if you haven't been through TFMR yourself; we talk about how to support someone who has been through it and what you could say and maybe try to avoid as well. Whether or not you know someone who has been through this, it's so important to get these conversations normalised to help those who are there, listening but silent about their losses because of the lack of coverage on this issue. Zara is open, honest and absolutely driven to help others who desperately need better representation and support and as usual - somehow we managed to have a laugh too...because finding the light in all this is vital to all of us. My enormous thanks to Zara and family for allowing me to share their experience. You can find support here: https://www.arc-uk.org/ https://petalscharity.org/ And contact Zara through Instagram @littlenorfolkcottage Live events from Cat and Alice will be running throughout the year catandalice.com to meet others going through loss or infertility, including our London Night Out on March 14th. The Rainbow Running Club also hold regular UK wide events too https://www.rainbowrunningclub.co.uk/ I am always here to listen too. Feel free to message me on Instagram @thisisalicerose, drop me an email [email protected] or go to my website thisisalicerose.com Please do share this episode far and wide, subscribe to this podcast and leave a rating or review on Apple if you have a minute or so. Your reviews mean that more people find my work and get the support they need. Sending much love and empathy to all... I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here. Take care, Alice x

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Heads up: we cover miscarriage and loss in this episode, but we also talk about dealing with the unique grief that comes from failed fertility treatment and any difficult path to bringing home a baby. My guest is grief expert, trained counsellor, author, CEO of the Mariposa Trust and Saying Goodbye, and government advisor: Zoe Clark Coates. We cover so much in this episode including: Zoe's story and how it led to the three books she has currently published and... "the value of communication, talking. Giving grief a language. As a society, we’re really bad at...I understand the power of the written word" "the significance of a service...a passage of grief. If you're grieving the fact you've never had a child: you are welcome to our services" -How the culture of dealing with fertility issues and loss is changing through the generations; the work Zoe and her organisation are doing with the NHS to encourage better support; the link between the fertility and loss communities and how we can try to eradicate the idea that one loss is worse than another by recognising that everyone is on a unique path and living their own story. I'm so happy Zoe has also agreed to gift one of her books on release of this episode, so do go to my instagram (@thisisalicerose) to see how to enter and win. You can find out more about Zoe's organisation at https://www.sayinggoodbye.org/ and find her beautiful books at any good bookshop or online. Find her on instagram too (@zoeadelle). I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here. Take care, A x

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I had the honour of chatting to Jen Roberts and her Mum, Eileen, (back when the weather was a tad less icy!) and it’s one of my favourite podcast episodes yet. Eileen’s insight from a mother’s perspective on what it’s like to watch your child experience infertility, miscarriage, IVF- and then to share it all on Instagram- is just so moving and important. These two are such personalities!! And both are so eloquent. I hope that lots of parents will get comfort from listening and that maybe this chat will also help you to know that the tricky feelings that come up within families as a result of all this are all really, really normal. Jen and Eileen are so real and authentic. We cover loads here including a difficult decision over what to do for Jen this Christmas with a new baby due any day now in the family. I would love for you to share this episode and let me know what you think. Jen has had a really hard time recently but was still happy for me to share this in the hope that her truth and honesty would bring comfort to others - I am so grateful for the privilege of being part of this conversation and to be able to share it with you. Fave quotes: Eileen: "I am of an age where instagram is not at the forefront of my being...I started thinking - I wouldn’t have said that! This is so personal and private...I was beside myself that she was 'airing her dirty washing in public'! But the more I read, the more I understood..." Jen: "the way you respond now is with much more empathy and understanding that I was perceiving was the case before" Eileen: "If you sat here now and you said: if you had your leg chopped off but in 9 months Jen would have a healthy baby I would say: right...let’s go. I would. Because for me: it’s a trade off I could do, to get her what she wants." thisisalicerose.com Instagram @thisisalicerose. I’m running a free live event, Reclaiming You, on 21 April and 22 April for anyone trying to bring home a baby and finding themselves feeling lost; stuck in a ‘left behind’ mentality; exhausted and in comparison mode. Read more about it, to see if it’s suitable for you and join me by saving your space here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices