Nick Cohen and Sunder Katwala engage in a detailed discussion about the rise of right-wing extremism in Britain, analysing rabid right rabble-rousers like Nigel Farage and examining how his evolving stance and ambiguous approach appeal to both mainstream voters and extreme elements. They explored the current political climate, focusing on the challenges faced by mainstream conservative parties and the need for addressing legitimate concerns about immigration while drawing clear boundaries against racist ideologies. The conversation concluded with discussions about the fragmented state of British politics, the need for a coherent centre-right party, and the challenges faced by political leaders in navigating complex social and cultural issues.

Nick & Sunder discuss the rise of right-wing extremism in Britain, comparing current political figures like Nigel Farage to historical fascists. Sunder expresses concern about the right setting the agenda and the dominance of emotional arguments over factual evidence. However, he remained optimistic about the long-term progress of British society, drawing on his personal experiences of racial and cultural diversity.

Sunder says "we are under policing absolute fascism and racism. Elon Musk has brought it in and what [Steve] Bannon and Trump did is they said there will be no boundary between the respectful right and the racist." 

Sunder says the sinister issue of so-called "re-migration" - in other words expelling ethnic minority Brits - will eventually do for the rabid right, saying, "There's immigration there's asylum. And these are tough issues in the centre left, but remotion, which is, you know, more people should leave them come in and re migration is a far right code ultimately for the people who really want to hear the word Remi.

It's about, you know, Sunder Katwala shouldn't been allowed to be born here. So if he was, let's get him out.... Okay. It's not gonna happen. But about from kick out the ethnic minority." 

Hope can still beat hate

For all its problems, and the ranting of the right, Sunder argues the UK still has a lot going for it as a tolerant and diverse society, saying ":Britain is the most Successful multi-ethnic democracy in the western world. It's a generation ahead of Western Europe." 

Overall, Sunder has a message of hope after a summer of far right race-baiting, demagoguery and even predictions of civil war: "It was a very sinister, silly season. We had people predicting civil war every weekend and it never quite erupting; Farage setting the asylum debate.

"It's felt like it's going backwards for a couple of years. We can and will reverse that...And you know, if people are making impossible promises to give us sort of fantasy politics that if you quit three more international treaties, your lives will be better. Let's make the opposite case."

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Sunder Katwala @sundersays is a director of the British Future think tank and a former general secretary of the Fabian Society. His book, How to be a patriot, is published by HarperNorth

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

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