FinOps in Action

Can FinOps really be automated? Or do humans still need to stay in the loop?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Zak Ali, Global Lead for Cloud FinOps and Cloud Modernization at Invesco.

Zak unpacked the real-world risks of over-automation, why “humans in the loop” still matter, and how to drive FinOps adoption without mandates or chargeback.

With over 20 years of experience in technology and cloud transformation, Zak shares hard-earned lessons from automation gone wrong, plus the unconventional strategies he’s used to get engineers and executives to actually take action.

We also covered how FinOps maturity evolves beyond dashboards and tooling, and why communication, marketing, and business context become just as critical as technical optimization. Zak explains how shifting from micro-level cost discussions to macro business impact changes behavior across the organization.

Here’s what we talked about:

• The biggest mistake FinOps teams make when they over-automate without governance
• Why “humans in the loop” are still essential for cloud optimization and AI-driven FinOps
• How automation can quietly increase risk when there are no circuit breakers
• Creative ways to drive engineer engagement through gamification, recognition, and simplicity
• Why engineers do take action once they understand the real financial impact
• How a “cloud utility bill” reframed cloud spend for executives and sparked action
• What actually creates accountability in a showback model (without chargeback or mandates)

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “Simplify the language. No techie speak, talk in dollars.” - Zak Ali

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zakirhali/ 
• Website: https://www.invesco.com/corporate/en/home.html 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

What does it really take to drive action in FinOps…. without chasing engineers?

In this re-air episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Dann Berg, Cloud FinOps Lead at Squarespace, to revisit one of our most practical and mindset-shifting conversations. Dann shares how the most effective FinOps teams create accountability without micromanagement, shorten feedback loops for engineers, and build trust across engineering, finance, and leadership.

Whether you’re building a FinOps practice from scratch or trying to move beyond reactive cost optimization, this conversation offers a timeless blueprint for driving real behavior change.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why trying to “get engineers to take action” is the wrong mental model
• How shortening the cost feedback loop changes engineering behavior
• Why FinOps works best when it creates accountability, not control
• How visibility, trust, and executive sponsorship unlock real impact
• Why FinOps is as much about culture and communication as it is about cost

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “ One of the ways that people can be strong FinOps practitioners is to go into it seeking knowledge.” - Dann Berg

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannberg/   
• BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/dann.fun  
• Company website: https://www.squarespace.com/  
• Personal Website: https://dannb.org/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

What did the world’s top FinOps practitioners learn in 2025? What should you change in your practice heading into 2026?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down to talk through key takeaways from 2025. I look back on dozens of interviews with FinOps leaders across industries to surface the four most repeated and most impactful insights from this year. Whether you’re scaling a new FinOps practice or leveling up a mature one, these insights will help you drive deeper engineering alignment, stronger executive support, and more business value in 2026.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why you should stop telling engineers what to do and empower them instead
• Why FinOps must be a top-down initiative
• How FinOps practitioners must think like salespeople
• Why FinOps is more than just cost savings… It’s about business value

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “Focus on business value. It's really important. It makes the conversation a lot easier, a lot more mature, but don't forget to optimize cost.” - Alon Arvatz

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alon-arvatz/ 
• Website: https://www.pointfive.co/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

How do leading companies shift FinOps from cost-cutting to strategic business value?

In this special compilation episode of FinOps in Action, we tackle one of the toughest challenges facing FinOps programs: showing business value to gain executive buy-in for the FinOps program.

Featuring:

Emily Cornock - Suncorp Group

Zach Johnson - Splunk

Tammy Burnitt - UiPath

Erik Norman - British Airways

Amy Race - Citizens Bank

These experts share how they tackle the shift from simple cost-cutting to value-showing. From drafting elevator value pitches to consistent executive involvement, these stories and strategies are guaranteed to get you thinking about the value of FinOps.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why shifting to asking what business value the cost is generating builds a much better culture and understanding of the cloud
• How to find the right metrics for the audience you are presenting to
• Why a “value pitch” can come in handy when you’re face-to-face with executives
• How you really need the “day-to-day” support from the top of the house

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 

Connect with these featured guests:

• Emily Cornock: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilycornock/ 
• Zach Johnson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zach-johnson-86581342/ 
• Tammy Burnitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammyburnitt/ 
• Erik Norman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-norman/ 
• Amy Race: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-jacobs-race-1882054/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

Is “death by dashboard” holding your FinOps program back more than you realize?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Gilad Katz, FinOps Lead at Riskified, to explore why world-class FinOps isn’t about knowing every technical detail or pushing engineers to make changes; it’s about neutrality, trust, and telling the right story with data.

Gilad describes the moment he realized that trying to “know everything” in cloud infrastructure was slowing him down and why the real turning point in his career happened when he shifted from feeling pressure to recommend solutions to embracing his role as the person who brings clarity, context, and facts. As he puts it, “I’m not a recommendation guy, I’m a data guy.” That mindset reshaped the way he collaborates with engineering and finance, and why the most important part of FinOps work is often diplomacy, not technical expertise.

We also talk about what happens when cloud costs spike, why looking backward slows teams down, and how practicing FinOps “with a smile” builds long-term credibility. Gilad pulls back the curtain on how Riskified manages monthly business reviews, how he keeps engineers engaged without blame, and why empathy and composure often matter more than technical mastery.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why trying to “learn everything” in cloud infrastructure actually slows FinOps practitioners down
• What it means to act as the “UN” between Finance and Engineering, and why neutrality drives influence
• Why reporting to the COO removes bias and prevents CTO–CFO misalignment from derailing cost decisions
• What “death by dashboard” looks like and why FinOps needs stories, summaries, and context, not dozens of charts 
• Why looking forward matters more than looking backward when costs spike, and how to avoid blame cycles
• How to communicate cloud costs in a way that reduces tension and increases cooperation
• Why FinOps is a marathon of relationship-building, not a sprint of optimizations

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “It's like being exactly where the money is, where decisions are being made.” - Gilad Katz

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%E2%98%81%EF%B8%8Fgilad-katz-b989549a/ 
• Website: https://www.riskified.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

How do you turn FinOps from a reporting function into part of the company’s operating system?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Zach Johnson, Head of FinOps & Cloud Platforms at Splunk to unpack why world-class FinOps isn’t about dashboards or reports, it’s about business value, executive alignment, and proactive decision-making.

Zach shares how one of his earliest lessons in FinOps was realizing that “presenting data isn’t the same as solving the problem.” That insight shaped the way he approaches communication with engineering, finance, and the C-suite and why the right metric depends entirely on who’s in the room. He explains why executives care more about unit economics and unallocated spend than tagging compliance, and how connecting cloud usage to business outcomes changes how organizations prioritize optimization.

We also dive into why rate optimization drives the biggest impact at scale, how Zach’s team uses AI-generated insights and Slack automation to make FinOps proactive rather than reactive, and why people skills often matter more than technical depth when driving adoption. From building monthly business reviews to modeling commitment purchases with data science, Zach offers a transparent look into how Splunk achieves over $100M in annual cloud savings.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why “more dashboards” is not a FinOps strategy and why presenting data is not the same as solving the problem
• The metrics executives actually care about (and why tagging compliance usually isn’t one of them)
• How business context, margin goals, and unit economics shape every FinOps decision Splunk makes
• Why proactive FinOps beats reactive FinOps and how Slack automation + AI insights help teams get ahead of cost changes
• How to communicate cloud spend in a way that Finance, Product, and Engineering all understand
• Why rate optimization drives the biggest financial impact in large-scale SaaS environments
• How Zach’s monthly business review framework aligns engineering, product, finance, and FinOps around shared priorities

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “A terrible engineer with fantastic people skills can oftentimes make a lot more progress than a fantastic engineer with horrific business skills or people skills.” - Zach Johnson

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zach-johnson-86581342/ 
• Website: https://www.splunk.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

Are you treating FinOps like a one-time project instead of an ongoing value engine?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Borja Martínez, EMEA FinOps Lead at NTT DATA Inc, to explore why successful FinOps starts with understanding your company’s business context, not just its cloud bill.

Borja shared how his unconventional path from 12 years as a professional basketball player to FinOps leader shaped the way he views teamwork, communication, and continuous improvement. He explains why two companies with the same cloud footprint may need completely different FinOps strategies, and why knowing whether your organization sees cloud as a cost center or a growth driver changes everything.

We also cover why cost optimization is never really “done,” how to shift conversations from cost to value, and why FinOps data (even if not the FinOps person) must have a seat at the executive table. From low-hanging fruit to advanced architectural efficiency, Borja brings practical guidance for any FinOps practitioner looking to evolve their program.

Here’s what we talked about:

• Why treating cloud optimization as a one-time project is one of the biggest mistakes beginners make
• The two types of companies: cost-center vs. growth-engine, and why each requires a different FinOps strategy
• How understanding business context and organizational structure shapes your entire FinOps approach
• Why “start with the basics” is still the right advice for most companies
• Why FinOps data needs to be at the decision-making table, even if the FinOps team isn’t
• How to move conversations from cost to value (and why this shift matters to executives)
• What professional basketball taught Borja about communication, teamwork, and FinOps execution

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “If you are focused only on savings and not on the value, definitely you will need a FinOps strategy.” - Borja Martínez

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bormartinez/ 
• Website: https://www.global.ntt/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

Is “cost optimization” the wrong goal for FinOps?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Erik Norman, FinOps Lead at British Airways, to unpack why true FinOps maturity isn’t about cutting costs, it’s about creating value.

Erik shared how a disastrous “do not delete” incident early in his FinOps career shaped his philosophy: that understanding business context and risk matters more than chasing quick savings.

He also explains why tagging isn’t a strategy, why executive sponsorship makes or breaks FinOps success, and how shifting FinOps left into architecture and design can prevent costly mistakes before they happen.

From challenging the Iron Triangle to redefining what it means to “follow the value,” Erik brings a mix of hard-earned lessons, humor, and practical wisdom that every FinOps and engineering leader will appreciate.

Here’s what we talked about:

• The horror story that taught Erik why risk assessment beats “quick wins” every time
• Why cost optimization without value awareness can backfire and how to fix it
• The truth about tagging: “It’s a tool, not a strategy.”
• Why every FinOps initiative needs executive sponsorship from the CIO and CFO
• How to make shift-left FinOps real by embedding cost awareness in architecture
• The difference between cost reduction and value realization
• Why the Iron Triangle is outdated (and what to use instead)
• How to measure and communicate FinOps value even when costs don’t go down

 🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/

Quote of the Show:

• “Tagging is not the goal. The tagging is a tool.” - Erik Norman

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-norman/ 
• Website: https://amach.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

Can empathy, sales skills, and gamification be the secret to driving FinOps success?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Tammy Burnitt, Director of FinOps at UiPath. Tammy discussed her 25 years of experience in IT and capacity management and how she founded the FinOps program during her time at Shell.

Tammy shared how she transformed resistance into engagement, proving that FinOps success is as much about people and persuasion as it is about data and dollars.

We also covered the mindset shifts and leadership skills needed to “sell” FinOps internally, from empathy and active listening to aligning with business value and executive goals.

Here’s what we talked about:

• The early resistance Tammy faced when introducing FinOps and how she turned skeptics into supporters
• Why selling FinOps internally requires empathy, patience, and a great elevator pitch
• How a community of practice can turn cost optimization into collaboration and shared success
• Why “FinOps plus something else” (like AI or security) helps teams see real business value 
• Tammy’s approach to finding quick wins that deliver big savings with minimal effort
• How measuring engagement (not just spend) can accelerate adoption across the enterprise

🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/ 

Quote of the Show:

• “People aren't gonna do something that they don't like, or they don't find fun, or they don't see value in. That's your job: to figure out how to sell that, right?” - Tammy Burnitt

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammyburnitt/ 
• Website: https://www.uipath.com/ 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency 

Can enforcing a simple tagging strategy transform your entire FinOps program?

In this episode of FinOps in Action, I sit down with Amy Race, Head of Infrastructure, Cost Management, and Cloud FinOps at Citizens Bank, to dive into how her company moved 99% to the cloud.

Amy shared how her team went from inconsistent tagging and cloud chaos to a structured, scalable FinOps practice. She explains how clear ownership, executive buy-in, and automation helped enforce a 100% tagging policy.

We also covered how making FinOps fun by introducing leaderboards, badges, and recognition turns FinOps into a company-wide movement.

Here’s what we talked about:

• The one mistake most FinOps teams make when launching a tagging strategy
• How Citizens Bank went from “advisory” tagging to 100% enforcement
• Why executive buy-in is the make-or-break factor in FinOps success
• The creative ways Amy’s team made FinOps fun, with leaderboards, badges, and friendly competition
• How top-down accountability turned optimization into a company-wide habit 

🎧 Subscribe for more FinOps leadership conversations → https://www.finopsinaction.com/

Quote of the Show:

• “Going back and doing something is much harder than doing it right from the beginning.” - Amy Race

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-jacobs-race-1882054/ 
• Website: https://www.citizensbank.com/homepage.aspx 

Ways to Tune In:

• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/f25a9d18-c12f-4ee4-93f5-2aa96e509b55 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finops-in-action/id1790497808 
• iHeart Radio: https://iheart.com/podcast/268443483/ 
• Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/finops-in-action-5958339 
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3IpjMc3qxDXZAjic5Zq21t 
• Substack: https://finopsinaction.substack.com/ 
• Transistor: finopsinaction.com 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PointFiveCloudCostEfficiency