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Forktales
By Vigor
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November 13, 2024Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli – Managing Partners of the Golden Steer The Golden Steer Steakhouse, established in 1958, is Las Vegas’s oldest continuously operating steakhouse. It has been a favored dining spot for numerous celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and Marilyn Monroe. The restaurant is renowned for its classic ambiance, featuring red leather booths named after its famous patrons, tuxedoed servers, and tableside preparations of Caesar salads and flambéed desserts.
One diner once said, “The Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas.”
Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli are the managing partners of the Golden Steer. Nick & Amanda took over as managing partners in 2018. Amanda’s father, Dr. Michael Signorelli, purchased the Golden Steer in 2001.
Nick has spent his career building companies in both the technology and food industries. Amanda’s background is in the tech industry.
Nick and Amanda created a mail order offering called Goldbelly in 2020 as a way to offset the impact of lost sales during COVID. The online sales continue today with a variety of high end seasonings and compound butters.
Customer service and hospitality is a key part of the Golden Steer brand and they live that philosophy every day. It includes simple things like answering phones with a human voice, which Golden Steer has hired staff members to do.
The Golden Steer has worked hard to build its social media presence, becoming one of the most viewed steakhouses on TikTok and using the channel to create offers that drive traffic to the restaurant.
QUOTES“I’m born and raised in Las Vegas and my father purchased the restaurant back in 2001. He did it because he loved the legacy and the story and it was something that was near and true to his heart as it is to many Vegas natives.” (Amanda) “Our longest tenured server is a gentleman named Venko who’s been with us almost 40 years. We’ve calculated that he’s made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career.” (Nick) “It’s a ton of fun when Venko’s making your Caesar salad. You’ll definitely hear some stories about old Vegas for sure.” (Nick) “We’re one of the most – if not THE most – viral restaurants in America on TikTok.” (Amanda) “We’re in a strip mall. A lot of times folks say ‘When I first drove up I didn’t think I was in the right spot.’ But then you walk inside and it’s like a little time capsule back to old Vegas.” (Nick) “We look at ourselves as stewards of this brand that has survived six decades plus and we hope to celebrate another six decades.” (Nick) “To quote Steve Wynn, ‘People make people happy.” We really try to embrace that.” (Nick)TRANSCRIPT00:01.94
vigorbranding
Hello, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone, and we’re really excited about this episode. This is gonna be a fun story. There’s a list, obviously, of truly legendary restaurants right in in the United States, but the Golden Steer in Las Vegas is one of those restaurants. it’s It’s the oldest continually operating steakhouse in Las Vegas, and our guests today are Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli. I’m Italian, so I got that right, right?
00:29.18
Nick _ Amanda
Nailed it.
00:29.73
vigorbranding
yeah Okay. So the managing partners, the Golden Steer, the Golden Steer is a steak house that became a regular stop of Frank Sinatra Elvis and many others. There are rumors of secret doors. We’ll talk about that. And, you know, as one diner once said, the Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas. So ah Nick, Amanda, welcome to the show.
00:49.07
Nick _ Amanda
Well, thank you, Michael, for for having us. It’s fabulous to be here. It’s a wonderful morning ah out here in Las Vegas. And we’re certainly looking forward to chatting with you a little bit and telling you about the Golden Steer.
01:00.62
Nick _ Amanda
Thank you.
01:00.87
vigorbranding
Fantastic. Fantastic. So the question is for both of you guys. Tell us a little about yourselves and how you came to be a part of the Golden Steer Steakhouse brand. And I guess there’s like a love story or something else in there too, right?
01:13.37
Nick _ Amanda
There it A little bit of everything.
01:14.54
vigorbranding
Okay.
01:15.92
Nick _ Amanda
ah So I’m born and raised in Las Vegas, fabulous Vegas. And my father actually purchased the restaurant back in 2001. And he did it because he loved the legacy and the story. And it was something that was really true and dear to his heart as it is with many Vegas natives. Now I left Vegas and went out to Chicago where I met this lovely, charming gentleman. And at some point I said, hey,
01:38.76
Nick _ Amanda
why don’t we jump in and since you are got a bit of a background on the culinary side and I’m on the kind of data and marketing side why don’t we put our heads together and jump back in and return to Vegas and give it a shot.
01:50.74
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Nick, you made breakfast somewhere along the line for her. Is that how you, the culinary side?
01:54.75
Nick _ Amanda
You know I tried I burned some boiling water but Yeah, originally from the Chicago area, I actually spent most of my career in the technology space.
02:06.21
Nick _ Amanda
i But the interesting wrinkle is that I studied in Rome when I was in college and really fell in love.
02:11.53
vigorbranding
Awesome.
02:12.27
Nick _ Amanda
Of course, the Europeans have such a different relationship with food and dining. And I came back to the States. I thought I wanted to move into the culinary hospitality world.
02:24.22
Nick _ Amanda
So I did culinary school. My cousin owned a restaurant in Chicago that I cooked in his kitchen for a while. But ultimately said, you know, this is crazy. Who in the right mind would ever want to own a restaurant and left? the way I went back to the software world. The margins are much better and never really anticipated coming back to it. And then, and then, yeah, we met in and Chicago and We got married in 2018 and I sold the tech offer for my last business and had some some time and her father called and said, hey, I need you guys to so either take over the restaurant or I’m going to think about selling it.
02:59.30
Nick _ Amanda
and So we looked at each other and said, but let’s do it for a year. Right. Let’s do it for a year.
03:04.58
vigorbranding
Yeah, give it a try.
03:05.72
Nick _ Amanda
We’ll kick ourselves. There’s such an iconic story and and history to to the place. So that year started March 1st of 2019. And of course, a year later, the the world changed with COVID. And so now here we are.
03:21.83
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. So I mean, are obviously Vegas has a storied history, all kinds of neat and maybe some bad background stuff. And your steakhouse has kind of been in the center of it all, hasn’t it? I mean, yeah if I remember, I think it’s like almost three different, ah sort of, I’ll say, historical chapters. So you had, didn’t you have people coming from California, ah coming out through the West, maybe to hunt? And the restaurant was a part of that. Can you talk about that a little bit?
03:48.00
Nick _ Amanda
Yeah, so we first consider ourselves, and you nailed it, we really think about it as stages and horizons of history, which is really wonderfully wonderful to see how the restaurant itself has absorbed it. So the very first one was, we called ourselves the period of the Wild Wild West, friendly for the Cowboys. We were truly a Western frontier restaurant, which was a bit more technical back then. What would happen is the Cowboys would come in from all these different places around the world. They’d come to Nevada, they’d go on the mountains, whatever they shot and killed, they’d bring in, it would be our responsibility to clean, prep, serve, and cook all those things for whoever had them. And so you have a lot of iterations of rattlesnake game, things like that on the menu, but very much Wild West cowboy lore. And so that’s what we started as. And then the second phase of that was as Vegas matured and went from being a saloon-style town to something a bit more elevated, we decided as a city to dominate the entertainment space, which led us to what we like to call the showman era. And so with the showman era, that’s where you have Sammy Davis Jr.
04:45.14
Nick _ Amanda
ah me monroe you’ve got frank sinatra You’ve got all these iconic, amazing celebrities and talents who are coming through Las Vegas, putting their foot on the ground and saying, let’s own this, let’s create it. And during that time, while they were out and performing for everyone else, they’d come back at night and dine at the Golden Steer. And we’ve actually got stories of patrons who said, oh, I remember my father and my grandfather used to come to the Steer because Frank Sinatra would get up on a table drinking whiskey, smoking a cigar and serenading the rest of the restaurant.
05:11.08
Nick _ Amanda
just really amazing moments that you wish you could see. Of course, when you’ve got the showmen and you’ve got the glitz and glam, you very quickly have the seedy underbelly, which ends up being the mob style.
05:14.47
vigorbranding
Yeah.
05:21.27
Nick _ Amanda
And so where all the fabulous flashy people come, mob’s there. And that is not surprising, especially when it started with someone like Tony Spalato, who came from the hole in the wall gang. And he made his mark in his business in Las Vegas, as he liked to call a jewelry shop.
05:35.18
Nick _ Amanda
I think of him more as a pawn shop because everything he had, you stole from a celebrity. You could just buy it back. So he began in Vegas and brought the rest of his um friends, we’ll call them lovingly, to this year to have meetings. And that began the mob period where they spent a ton of time here. It led to the mob room. We had the MatriD trying to exchange and make sure that we had the right mob partners not sitting right next to each other or in different rooms if we needed to. And it created quite a different ambiance.
06:02.56
vigorbranding
it’s It’s amazing. And it’s really, I mean, again, so I can say this I’m Italian. So I’m always the old mob is I mean, I, i wrote you know, I think the greatest business movie ever made was a Godfather. And I swear by that, I think that is the best business movie ever made.
06:14.88
vigorbranding
And so and the greatest movie ever made. So I love all of that, that, that, that mystique. I’ve been to your restaurant and the food is phenomenal.
06:21.44
Nick _ Amanda
it
06:24.74
vigorbranding
I’m not pandering. It really is phenomenal.
06:26.86
Nick _ Amanda
thank you
06:26.94
vigorbranding
But you almost get that vibe when you walk in there, like with the brown booze and you have the other people’s names owner who used to hang out there.
06:32.06
Nick _ Amanda
and
06:32.49
vigorbranding
um It’s just, it’s amazing. So you you had obviously all the showmen, you know, the whole brat pack was there. I know that there you have the picture behind you. ah But you also had celebrities like Joe DiMaggio, right? You had, I think it was Ali there. I mean, I think you had lots and lots of sports figures. I mean, I guess anybody that popped in Vegas, how’d he go to the Golden Steer?
06:48.32
Nick _ Amanda
Thank you. Muhammad Ali ah celebrated his birthday here. Mario Andretti, yes, Joe DiMaggio, some more local folks. So, the comedian of Entroqua is Terry Fader. And then my favorite, one of my favorite stories, of course, is Mr. William Baxter. So, William Baxter is ah is a famous, for a number of reasons, one, ah very, very successful professional poker player.
07:17.87
Nick _ Amanda
um but also very so very well known because he sued the United States federal ah federal government in a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and he argued that poker is a game of skill and not a game of chance.
07:30.68
vigorbranding
Okay. Hmm.
07:33.60
Nick _ Amanda
and so And that it should be taxed as income instead of gambling winnings. Gambling winnings are taxed higher than income is.
07:38.95
vigorbranding
Higher. Yep.
07:40.44
Nick _ Amanda
ah He ultimately won it and permanently recategorized poker winnings for for players across the country. And so just, ah I think it’s a great example of kind of the Vegas stories that you find here um that are that fly a little bit below the radar.
07:52.87
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s crazy. And again, so much history, yeah you know, I think evolve. And it makes sense, right? Like we talked about like the the mob and stuff like that. Well, in every movie, I mean, you know, they got to go somewhere that’s sort of like a neutral ground, right? Where they’re, you know, they’re not going to be talking in the inside the casino or, you know, their hideout. So they’re gonna, they’re gonna go someplace where there’s ah other people and all that. And the Golden Steer was sort of like a centerpiece for that, wasn’t it?
08:23.81
Nick _ Amanda
It was and actually it worked that we’re having this conversation from the mob room. So this is one of the private rooms that we have in the restaurant where they like to come in and dine and enjoy because it was it was separate and so they could have some candid conversations.
08:28.11
vigorbranding
Oh, there you go. ye
08:40.00
Nick _ Amanda
also very close to a back hallway that we had so that they could ah sneak in and out as they needed to because one of the other booths that we have is Ralph Lamb and Ralph Lamb was very well known sheriff here in Vegas in the the at at the same time as the mob so he was kind of chasing them around and so there was certainly times that that one or both were coming in and required ah a quick getaway or a discreet exit and so that’s why they love to to kind of sit and dine in here in the mob room.
09:12.77
vigorbranding
That’s great. So we won’t talk too much about the mob, although I do love the mistake, but so this, yeah we can go to, let’s, let’s talk about like, you know, I know you don’t serve burgers anymore, but, but you said in in past interviews, I guess Elvis had had his last burger at the golden steer.
09:26.63
Nick _ Amanda
Well, I think he had the last burger that we served at the Golden Steer. I’m sure he had burgers after that.
09:30.40
vigorbranding
Okay.
09:31.71
Nick _ Amanda
But yeah, we used to do a little transition from the mob.
09:31.79
vigorbranding
Okay. Oh no, we’re not saying he didn’t get poisoned there. No, no, no, no, no. You just had, yeah, I would have very clear on that.
09:39.04
Nick _ Amanda
We had to make sure that we were clear about it. Um, no, he, he used to come in, he would sit at the, at the bar and and enjoy a burger. And then as you know, his, his fame continued to rise. He transitioned to sitting in, he has a beautiful, probably one of the best corner booths in the restaurant where he would sit and transition from burgers to, to steaks. And so at that point we decided, all right, no more, no more burgers on the menu.
10:05.00
Nick _ Amanda
and and and to this day have still not served a burger since Office of Time.
10:10.03
vigorbranding
That’s great. So, okay, you guys joined the the Golden Steer 2018, then COVID came around, obviously, and probably created a havoc for everybody, like it did everybody else. I know how it affected the restaurant industry. But you guys, i’ve been I’ve been to your website, you guys are doing mail order, things like that, too. Is that right? So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that and some of the thinking that you put behind that.
10:30.50
Nick _ Amanda
Yeah, absolutely. So when COVID first hit, we both looked at each other and credit to Nick. He was really early on in this. We were actually planning for COVID in the December of the year prior. So we were looking out and thinking that there was going to be something that changed the restaurant dramatically. It was a question of what and how, and more importantly, how long. And so a lot of restaurants we’re looking at, do we do a to-go option? But the reality is our restaurant is on the strip.
10:53.31
Nick _ Amanda
with the world being shut down. We don’t have anybody here. Even if we wanted to deliver, given the radius, by the time the product got there to most of the suburbs that are going to be 20, 30 minutes away, the product and integrity and quality was going to be disastrous. So it did not make sense for us to try that. The other element, when you look at the actual nature of our business at the time, the predominant share of our customer base actually came from outside of Nevada. And so we said, all right, so most of our customers that we need to be able to get to aren’t here. Let’s ship to them.
11:19.84
Nick _ Amanda
Fortunately, in a prior life, I had run a company and was good friends with some folks that had started a shipping company that was on Foodside and that was Home Chef. Nick also had his first company, which was Right Bites.
11:30.63
Nick _ Amanda
So he also had an idea of how to do shipping. So we looked at each other and said, let’s give it a go. So we went live on Goldbelly, which was May 19th, sold out of our inventory with one email in about two weeks.
11:38.00
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
11:43.08
Nick _ Amanda
So there’s something there. Let’s turn it on and run with it for a bit. Fast forward to November of that same year, and we ended up taking it in-house and selling ourselves on Shopify and building that out.
11:52.01
vigorbranding
That’s great.
11:52.22
Nick _ Amanda
Wow, we’ve been able to double that business pretty much year over year. And interestingly enough, that business is actually a seasoning company first and a state company second.
12:00.39
vigorbranding
Wow. Good for you. Well, I mean, there was the mail order stakes before, right?
12:02.46
Nick _ Amanda
there was states
12:04.20
vigorbranding
People had that. That’s something that, you know, existed. So, uh, which that’s great. And it’s good to still have that, but the seasonings are, that’s what makes you guys special, you know?
12:12.82
Nick _ Amanda
It’s a ton of, and it was, you know, something, you know, we’ve, so Sergio sees, so Sergio is our master butcher. He’s been with us for almost, almost four decades at this point.
12:23.22
vigorbranding
Wow.
12:23.37
Nick _ Amanda
And he, over the years has developed a seasoning blend in it. We use it on steaks in the restaurant. But it really came, we so during COVID, we did virtual private dining, which was we had all these conventions cancel, all these corporations that looked to do virtual events.
12:38.93
Nick _ Amanda
And so we we had our iteration of that, which is we would send a box of ingredients for a three-course meal. So our world-famous Caesar salad, rib eyes, the cream corn, twice baked potato, and then, of course, the bananas foster.
12:53.11
Nick _ Amanda
You can’t forget, a little taste is sweet at the end.
12:54.34
vigorbranding
nope yep
12:55.78
Nick _ Amanda
But one of the items was Sergio seasoning. And as we did more of these events, and we did them for folks like Dell and Cisco and NASA and Second Watch, people started asking, like hey, this Sergio seasoning, can we can we buy this separately? And so a light bulb went off, and it was I think a year and a half after we first started selling steaks that we then allowed folks to to buy and and brought the Sergio seasoning to market, which then kicked off a line of seasonings, and now we have a line of compound and flavored butters that we also ship out as well. So it’s been a real like evolution of that online piece that you know I don’t think, um without COVID, I i mean, we we probably would have exported a little bit, but it was really a driver and catalyst for you know expanding into that online space.
13:43.94
vigorbranding
Yeah, I mean, it’s brilliant. And look, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right? You guys, I know restaurants are hard and it can be a daily grind, you know, whether you have one or 50 or for franchisee, franchisor to then start an online, really, in a way, a CPG business, right? i mean e-commerce business, it’s a whole other world and it’s a whole other venue. So it’s really kind of cool that you were able to have the energy, the fortitude and the desire to drive that way. That’s that’s awesome and kudos to you guys for doing that.
14:14.81
Nick _ Amanda
And that is, I, you know, Amanda has really taken that by the horns and driven that um to an amazing extent.
14:14.89
vigorbranding
um
14:24.40
Nick _ Amanda
I think it’s it’s wild. I mean, it’s been it’s been a long journey, right? we’re We’re almost four years in, but it’s been exciting to see kind of how that has evolved and changed. um Because it is.
14:35.21
Nick _ Amanda
It’s an entirely different world.
14:36.55
vigorbranding
Sure.
14:37.18
Nick _ Amanda
The digital ad space is, um is ah of course, massive. um And so it’s been it’s been fun to to kind of lean into that. And it’s to see where the two have fed off of each other, I think, is is very exciting for us.
14:53.69
Nick _ Amanda
And so as an example of that, It used to be two sister brands. So we had Golden Steer Las Vegas as one of the domains and then Golden Steer State Company. And it was only in March of this year that we kind of brought it all under one umbrella.
15:06.96
vigorbranding
Sure.
15:07.41
Nick _ Amanda
It’s goldensteer dot.com, which really we saw a lot of benefits in and value to it, which has been it.
15:10.93
vigorbranding
Of course. Yeah, I mean, it’s that’s super smart. I mean, this all came about like Fork Tales, this podcast all came about because we have we have an agency. My background is is advertising marketing and we have a holding company and in our company, we created different brands. And one is Quench, which is CPG food and beverage. When we were doing that, people would come and say, hey,
15:32.60
vigorbranding
You should you know market our restaurant or do you do restaurants and. Everyone thinks well restaurants food and beverage right so it’s the same as cpg but it’s not and you guys know that cause you’ve done both so. We created vigor or you know take on and a brand called vigor which is a restaurant.
15:49.99
vigorbranding
branding and marketing agency and they are very different. I did it because they’re different. and We have different skill sets in there and you know it’s retail and the speed of retail in the restaurant side and CPG is just a different animal.
16:02.86
vigorbranding
So I mean it’s a yeah it’s it’s ah um kudos to you guys again for doing both.
16:06.33
Nick _ Amanda
to go.
16:08.20
vigorbranding
I see that a lot because we’ll have a lot of folks on that’ll be ah they’ll they’ll start with ah a food product, a CPG and they’ll create restaurants from it. or they’ll have a restaurant and then things will emanate off of it.
16:19.82
vigorbranding
You know, we just did a thing with Guy Fieri ah with his sauces. We just did a thing with, I’m trying to think who else was, it doesn’t matter. But we’ve we’ve had a lot of these guys, a home run in is another one who’s started out as a restaurant and and now they’re, you know, yeah.
16:33.66
Nick _ Amanda
oh yeah ah
16:36.53
vigorbranding
they’re phenomenal pizza, right? So it’s really kind of neat to see these evolutions and how they grow. So well thank goodness that the whole industry of the conventions is back. and I’m sure that’s great for you guys. In fact, i’m i and believe it or not, I’m not just saying this, we have 15 people coming in to your restaurant. I think it’s in October. If that reservation is not made, we have ah one of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity, which is senior living. We have we market and brand retirement communities around the country.
17:06.78
vigorbranding
And there is a, ah the acronym is SMASH. I’m not sure exactly what it stands for, but they’re having a convention in Vegas. And so we’re bringing a bunch of clients ah to the restaurant.
17:16.97
Nick _ Amanda
Thank you.
17:17.92
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll have to make sure they get the bananas foster.
17:18.87
Nick _ Amanda
We’ll see you.
17:22.79
vigorbranding
So, oh yeah.
17:22.81
Nick _ Amanda
it’s the bottom one
17:24.05
vigorbranding
But now the stay on the let’s say when you’re Caesar Salads killer, I was at the restaurant and the gentleman at the serve, they talk about him a little bit.
17:31.84
Nick _ Amanda
Yeah, so our longest tenured server, a gentleman named Banco who’s been with us for also almost 40 years, and we calculated that we think that he’s made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career.
17:50.13
Nick _ Amanda
Uh, so it’s, it’s, he, and he tell, he tells some wonderful stories.
17:50.59
vigorbranding
yeah
17:55.52
Nick _ Amanda
He’s been in Vegas for a long, long time and has met some incredible people. And, you know, one of them, most interestingly, coming back to kind of the the mob era.
18:06.14
Nick _ Amanda
So Tony Spelatro. Camino talked about his his jewelry store. It was right next to the Golden Steer, which is why he would come in. And one of it the gentlemen on his henchmen team was Frank Colada. And Frank Colada, there is a ton of stories and books and podcasts about him.
18:24.98
Nick _ Amanda
um because he yeah actually was ah an informant and went into witness protection for a long time and then came out of it and he would still after he came out he would still come in and dine at the Golden Steer and Vanco was the only server that he would that he would really allow to to wait on him and so they had a they had a special relationship and Vanco yeah has some tremendous stories and It’s still with us.
18:48.76
Nick _ Amanda
We are grateful um through through all of the ah the craziness of COVID remained with us and and is a treasured part of of the team. And we are not just him, but we have a tremendous team.
19:00.25
Nick _ Amanda
But it’s a ton of fun when Van Gogh is making your season salad. You’ll definitely hear some stories about Old Vegas for sure.
19:04.81
vigorbranding
Yeah, ah it’s it’s super cool. Like I said, I absolutely loved ah my time there. and And you were not there, but he was so that, you know, he he was there.
19:13.26
Nick _ Amanda
yeah
19:14.38
vigorbranding
then We got the Caesar and, you know, it was it was a phenomenal. So and the whole like the whole mistake. And what’s really cool and and you I should say for anybody who’s interested in in in checking out the the the restaurant, you know, we think about Vegas and restaurants like there’s these big casinos and all the restaurants in the casinos.
19:30.51
vigorbranding
You guys are not in a casino. I mean, you’re old Vegas, you’re on the strip, right?
19:34.33
Nick _ Amanda
We are, our address is not technically on the strip. We are about a half a block or a block off the strip, but we’re in a strip mall.
19:41.22
vigorbranding
Yeah.
19:41.54
Nick _ Amanda
And so a lot of times we get feet, like folks drive up and they say like, when I first drove up, I don’t, I didn’t think that I was in the right spot.
19:46.04
vigorbranding
Yeah.
19:50.61
Nick _ Amanda
Um, because, you know, we talk about all this history and everyone that’s come in and you drive up and it’s a strip mall.
19:55.88
vigorbranding
right
19:56.10
Nick _ Amanda
Uh, but then you walk inside and it’s like a little time capsule back to old Vegas. We still have, you know,
20:00.15
vigorbranding
yeah
20:01.01
Nick _ Amanda
We still have the carpets and the dining rooms and the popcorn ceilings and a lot of the elements that make, that kind of transport people back to to that time. And so, um but yeah, and we’ve always been in this location, ah you know, 66 years. And you can think about, back to Amanda’s story about the frontier days.
20:23.72
Nick _ Amanda
you can kind of see it when you come here like this is not you know there was the old strip down on Fremont and then some of the kind of the new hotels were being built in the 50s and 60s but this was kind of just a little bit off the beaten path and so there were hitching posts and it’s easy to see how folks would you know go and hunt in the wilderness which was not that far from where we currently are but now of course today it’s it’s a much different story Vegas has seen some tremendous growth but
20:42.38
vigorbranding
Right.
20:47.30
vigorbranding
Yeah.
20:48.45
Nick _ Amanda
ah But yeah, it’s a ton of fun when folks come in for the first time and kind of look at themselves at the outside like, are we at the right spot? And then walk in and a whole different world.
20:56.76
vigorbranding
yeah Well, the way you explained it was absolutely 100% my experience. Because when I went out there, I think I took an Uber, and you know how sometimes Ubers you put an address in and you’re like, well, this doesn’t look right. I did the old, well, this doesn’t look right. And then I was like, wait, wait, no, there’s, oh, yep, yep, yeah, we’re right, okay, great. And walked in and it was like, to your point, it’s like ah Oz, right? You open the door and there you are. And so I think anybody that goes to Vegas, you know, the the mystique, the history, all that stuff is so important and so cool. and You know, I just need to go to, uh, you know, anybody can go to the wind or whatever, which they’re all fine.
21:26.30
vigorbranding
They’re all great. But I mean, like to go out and see your place is like, it’s like going to a museum. and And then, but then on top of it, the food is as good as anything you’re going to get anywhere, if not better as far as a steak. So I just think you have such a cool vibe going and, uh, kudos.
21:38.08
Nick _ Amanda
Well, thank you. yeah you know and it’s And especially this year, it’s bittersweet, right? So the Tropicana is in the process of being torn down.
21:43.48
vigorbranding
Yeah.
21:45.67
Nick _ Amanda
And and it’s a remind. What’s that? The Mirage. The Mirage, of course, is you know the first hotel that Steve Wynn built from the ground up is is also in the process of being demolished.
21:49.01
vigorbranding
Yeah.
21:55.82
Nick _ Amanda
So it’s exciting. the The town has seen tremendous growth. And I think the um the community has benefited from it greatly. But it’s also a little bittersweet because these icons of the past kind of are continuing to to transition.
22:06.50
vigorbranding
Yeah.
22:08.96
Nick _ Amanda
And so we we look at ourselves and we think, and we talk about it a lot with the team, that we feel like stewards of this brand that has managed to survive you know six decades plus, and that we you know hopefully would love to celebrate another six decades.
22:25.51
vigorbranding
Sure.
22:25.95
Nick _ Amanda
Past this so it’s been you know, the town is is is wild. it’s It’s been really great um But yeah, they’re it’s kind of always in that transition period
22:36.05
vigorbranding
That’s funny. I mean, it’s really ah yeah it’s ah it’s an amazing kind of thing. And just to have that history is just it’s a treasure to your point. So a lot of the restaurants will claim that, you know, they focus on hospitality, but very few do it well. What’s your secret? How do you make it real and make sure that your staff brings that, you know, to life every day?
22:54.75
Nick _ Amanda
It’s a great, way it you know, I’m from, or like I said, I’m originally from the tech world. And so it’s been, um, It’s been phenomenal to see just, I think, just want to talk about for a second. I think the, the work ethic and, uh, the quality of people that are in the industry is tremendous. Um, and I think, you know, people really that are in this, like have a passion for, for it. And I think Vegas itself is unique in that. Uh, and I think it, it starts with people. Um, I think to quote Steve, when he always said that, you know, that people make people happy. Uh, and I think we really try to embrace that.
23:32.99
Nick _ Amanda
um And one, so Pete Wells just retired as the New York Times food critic in his final column. One of the things that he talked about was phones, that a lot of restaurants don’t answer phones anymore. And we do. We actually, ah we get a tremendous number of of inbound phone calls and we’ve hired up folks in the restaurant to be able to try and answer as many of those phone calls as possible with a human voice because we think that that is important. And we,
24:02.19
Nick _ Amanda
You know, at the end of the day, we were a family business. There’s not too many family businesses on the Las Vegas Strip. And so we try to bring that warmth and the idea of, you know, folks are coming in to celebrate their most treasured moments, their birthdays, their anniversaries, graduations.
24:21.88
Nick _ Amanda
It’s always fun when a local came in for prom and now they’re coming in for, you know, their kids’ graduation or or anything like that that’s multi-generational.
24:27.56
vigorbranding
Awesome.
24:30.23
Nick _ Amanda
And so there’s a lot of, ah history that folks have with the restaurant and warmth I think is one of the big pieces that we try to to focus on. I mean there’s the there’s the tactical ah you know the steps of service and all of those pieces but we really try and say how do we make people feel feel good and feel happy feel welcomed if If something is wrong, if there is a miss on food, um we will you know either replace it or take it out late. We do everything that we can to ensure a great experience because we know that folks are coming in to to celebrate celebrate those special moments. so
25:08.31
Nick _ Amanda
We really try and focus on the people first. ah We have a tremendous, tremendous staff um that I think enjoys the history and kind of being a part of that stewardship of ah a legacy brand. And it’s a ton of fun. And I think we are We are fortunate that we have had folks that have been with us for a long time to kind of keep that, like a, like a Vanko and a Sergio over the decades that have seen the ebb and flow of the city, that have seen the ebb and flow of the restaurant and have some, ah you know, a foot kind of in the old Vegas hospitality that folks like to to reminisce about.
25:34.68
vigorbranding
who
25:47.75
Nick _ Amanda
And so we try and and bring that and make that real, ah you know, day in and day out, which is, which is a fun, a fun and interesting challenge as a part of the restaurant industry.
25:57.16
vigorbranding
Yeah I mean we’ll like you know okay so and I’m not saying everyone can do it well but anyone can make a steak you know I can go home and grill a steak but if I go to your restaurant I’m gonna get it I’m gonna get a phenomenal but really it is about that whole experience right and those people become they’re part of the brand like we I said I did have the Uh, uh, your gentlemen, Benko, I guess is his name that did you make my, so my salad was phenomenal. I mean, and that was part of the whole, the whole deal and and and part of the romance of the whole place. So, uh, I think that’s, that’s phenomenal. So now talking about special moments last year, you guys purchased a thousand square foot of adjoining space. You’re expanding for the first time in 50 years. Um, now you you have a classic look architecturally, how hard is that to do? And what is the, what are what are you going to do with that space? It’s just tables. You can do more banquets. Is it, you know, talk a little bit about that.
26:43.00
Nick _ Amanda
Yeah, so we opened it. um And it it was exciting. It was the first time in 50 years. And to Amanda’s point, in the restaurant, you could see the evolution over the six decades because the the the current bar that exists today was the last expansion that we did in the 70s. And so it was it was fun to to take on this bra of of you know this first expansion in 50 years. So we opened it last November right before F1.
27:10.62
Nick _ Amanda
And it is additional dining space, but also mainly with a focus on large parties and private dining, which is a tremendous part of ah Vegas now with with all of the social parties that come in and of course all of the conventions.
27:16.19
vigorbranding
Great.
27:20.66
vigorbranding
Sure.
27:25.69
Nick _ Amanda
and and we kept We kept everything as, you know, it was very inspired, of course, by the existing space. So ah wood paneling, which is a huge part of the existing restaurant or the the original restaurant, it was kept. The carpet is the same. We kept the popcorn ceiling. So its it was a very fun conversation with our designer and architects before we even started construction.
27:53.76
Nick _ Amanda
We walked through the existing space to to kind of get some ah design ideas. And we were talking about the ceilings. And I was like, well, of course we have to keep the popcorn ceilings because we have the popcorn ceilings in the existing space. And our designer looked at us and she’s like, you know, I’ve taken a lot of popcorn ceilings out in my career, but I’ve never actually had a clock that wanted to put them in. And, you know, of course, would it be our first choice if we were just, you know, starting from scratch? Maybe not.
28:19.14
Nick _ Amanda
ah But it’s a part of the history and kind of the rounded coving of where the walls meet the ceiling is a part of that.
28:19.44
vigorbranding
That’s it.
28:27.28
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
28:27.44
Nick _ Amanda
And so all of those pieces that we that we could we took the, you know, we have ah this beautiful um circular soffit that is in the main dining room. And we also created a similar one in one of the the new rooms as well, just to make people continue to feel like this is this is an extension, you know, no different than what the steer has done over the six decades of, you know, continuing to um to kind of grow and do it in a way that that is in harmony with the with the rest of the space. So it’s been and we but to
29:03.30
Nick _ Amanda
um I guess I’ll just say we were very excited so when we opened it the first night we did a friends and family dinner and the first couple that walked in they gave us a hug and ah she was super excited she’s like oh congratulations on the opening like and we were at this time we we greeted people in the new space so she walked into the new space gave us a hug and she’s like after the hug she’s like all right this is awesome congratulations can we see the new space but she was standing in the new space and asked to see it and really made a smile.
29:32.74
Nick _ Amanda
And that was kind of the goal that folks wouldn’t have any idea that they were standing in a space.
29:34.02
vigorbranding
ah
29:36.59
vigorbranding
You have to pump like some old cigar smoke in the seat cushions right in the new place.
29:39.18
Nick _ Amanda
We didn’t know about that. All right.
29:40.74
vigorbranding
yeah
29:41.52
Nick _ Amanda
The joke was the mill workers that I was going to have, you know, bring in like four and five year olds with like keys and like socks to like mark up the woodwork to make it look aged.
29:50.06
vigorbranding
Yeah. That’s awesome. That is awesome. All right. So now I’m going to ask you, that you know, I’ve read that the the steer has the best steaks on earth and I’ve had a phenomenal, absolutely. I concur. um Now you’re the couple that makes the best steaks. I’m going to give you something personal. man I’m going to start with you. ah What’s your favorite cut and how do you like it cooked?
30:08.78
Nick _ Amanda
That’s easy, ribeye 100%, absolutely. Medium rare and always with, if I can, I really like our maturity butter. I think we did a great job with it. So I like to put that on top.
30:17.99
vigorbranding
Well done. Well done, Nick.
30:22.50
Nick _ Amanda
Why, i the our ribeye is our signature cut, 24 ounce bone in. If, and I won’t pick that, but I would say actually the strip loin, our New York strip, our 16 ounce New York strip is is probably my go to now. I think it’s the perfect blend between, you know filet of course is delicious if you’re looking for that, very lean, tender. A ribeye is fantastic, great marbling.
30:46.92
Nick _ Amanda
A good bite and I think the the strip kind of plays right in between those It’s got good fat for good flavor, but it’s still got some good tenderness. We butcher all of the meat in house. So everyone’s Steak is cut fresh that day which I think really adds to that element of freshness and we wet age everything for a minimum of 28 days to to bring a little tenderization to to the meat and It’s a ton of fun.
31:16.48
Nick _ Amanda
and We cook, it we we keep it old school. We cook on commercial broilers, uh, that really help us kind of measure the amount of char that we’re getting, uh, you know, based on kind of the, the distance from the heat source.
31:29.86
Nick _ Amanda
So it’s a very old school. I think the broiler broiler is as old as Sergio is.
31:34.84
vigorbranding
I was going to say evening, bought him a new broiler.
31:35.26
Nick _ Amanda
Uh,
31:37.20
vigorbranding
He’s been there all these years.
31:38.45
Nick _ Amanda
he likes the old one.
31:38.62
vigorbranding
The guy can, he needs a new broiler.
31:40.40
Nick _ Amanda
He likes, he knows how it works. yeah He likes the old one.
31:42.08
vigorbranding
That’s it. That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s great. Now, Amanda uses the butter. What do you, any, anything you’d like to add to your steak?
31:49.44
Nick _ Amanda
No, I like to keep it traditional and classic.
31:51.93
vigorbranding
So I’m kind of in between both guys. I’m always a ribeye. I did Devone in at your place, phenomenal. I don’t put anything on my steak. So I just, I’m, and I love ribeyes. I, you know, there’s probably a healthier steak out there.
32:02.72
vigorbranding
They’re filet, but I figure, you know, my deathbed, I’m not going to wish I ate more filets. I’m always going to eat a ribeye. So ribeye and a big bottle of Cabernet or an amaron.
32:07.23
Nick _ Amanda
ah great a hundred
32:10.30
vigorbranding
I love amaron lines. Oh, that’s like heaven on earth. I’m hungry. um So, I mean, yeah, so so nothing on your stake. um is is If someone wants to put a catch up, is there any judgment?
32:22.36
vigorbranding
How do we feel about that?
32:22.65
Nick _ Amanda
There’s not, there’s not.
32:23.52
vigorbranding
Not?
32:23.88
Nick _ Amanda
And I think so for us, that comes back to the hospitality piece, right?
32:24.04
vigorbranding
Okay.
32:27.63
Nick _ Amanda
At the end of the day, we’re serving you your steak. So if you want ketchup or you want A1 or Heinz 57, or you want it butterflied and well done, ah no no judgment from us.
32:40.62
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
32:41.32
Nick _ Amanda
We’re going to prepare it the way that you want, ah which I think is is important because you’re you know you’re coming in to celebrate and so who are we to to to say that you can’t have it that way?
32:51.78
vigorbranding
see see but that’s what we do differ a little bit because I do judge and and I love I love my wife but she’s always well done steaks well done we were we were in Italy and the steak Florentine right and they make their steak Florentine it’s just aged and it’s basically they make it one way they only make it one way and she and you know and very expensive and to your point it’s it’s your your your time your money people should be there she walked in and she asked the waiter she said
32:54.86
Nick _ Amanda
and Yeah.
33:18.17
vigorbranding
I know I probably shouldn’t ask this because they make it well done. He’s like Sure, but I’d rather I’d like to recommend the filet for you. He would not sell her the the t-bone the steak Florentine He would I he’s like I will get you a filet That’s all you’re allowed to have and she was happy that she was okay with but that’s that’s the truth I have one other anecdote like when I started my my illustrious career Like like I and like I think a lot of people did and I think everyone should you start in a restaurant I just think that is like The greatest education anyone can have that and I think everyone should have to sell something like I don’t care if it’s like ah ah subs for your baseball team or Girl Scout. I think everyone should sell something and everyone should work in a restaurant and in my ah my illustrious career. I started out at this restaurant and it was a
34:02.41
vigorbranding
a gentleman by the name of Hobart Umberger, and and he he had a restaurant he did very, very well with. He had a bunch of restaurants at one time called Um-ee’s, just a local fair. It wasn’t like, it was like all one-offs. When he was getting ready for retirement,
34:15.31
vigorbranding
Or as he aged, he didn’t need money and he didn’t care about serving a million meals. He wanted to make everything by hand by himself. So he created this thing called Hobarts. It was high end, very high end. Hershey, Pennsylvania. So we would get a lot of people in from the factory, a lot of dignitaries, lots ah lots of C-sweep types of folks. He had one bottle of ketchup. One. And it was next to a knife.
34:36.89
vigorbranding
in the kitchen next, behind him. And inevitably Hannah was the waitress. I can still picture it like it was a, he’d be, and he did these things, these tornadoes of beef. He would do these center cuts of the filet and he was very proud of those. And inevitably it would be this thing and Hannah would be all nervous and stuff. she open the door in the kitchen.
34:53.71
vigorbranding
I was washing dishes, by the way. And she’d be like, Hobart, I don’t want to hear any shit. this I know you’re going to yell. I need to catch up. And he would be like, he’d start throwing stuff.
35:04.41
vigorbranding
And he’s like hey do and he’d be banging stuff. And he was like, who the hell? And he knew because he made everything by hand. and He made it. He was like, that’s the guy. There’s just sort of the plays. The tornado is a beef.
35:14.76
vigorbranding
And he’s like, there I’ll be damned if I’m going to have my cake. Anyway, so i I’m glad we had that question. here Because it’s a it’s a thing.
35:20.38
Nick _ Amanda
ah i edit a hundred percent and and but we We like to have these conversations because a lot of folks share your perspective, um and which you know in some sense i can I can understand and empathize with. but i think we I will say to you know to the the story you told about your wife in Italy,
35:40.38
Nick _ Amanda
We will recommend, so I think a good example is like the tomahawk. So we we offer a 40 ounce tomahawk and it’s a tomahawk ribeye cut. so it’s that So it has a good amount of fat in it.
35:50.13
vigorbranding
Oh, yeah.
35:52.39
Nick _ Amanda
And so one of the places that we will do some recommendations is if someone comes in and orders the tomahawk rare, we will maybe suggest like, hey, um, because it’s, if you want it rare, some of that fat is not going to render out.
36:07.65
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
36:07.83
Nick _ Amanda
And so it’s going to be a little, it could come across as a little tougher, a little gristly. And so there will be some times that we’ll make some recommendations, but, um, at the end of the day, folks are are ordering what they would like.
36:18.37
Nick _ Amanda
And I think for us, it comes back to that hospitality piece of, you know, we want you to feel warm and welcomed, uh, and I don’t know if you can feel too welcome if you order a captive and you’re taken and you hear the shaft in the back laying in top of his pants.
36:33.46
vigorbranding
And he did and he but he didn’t care like he was like he would actually would rather them left because him at his point in life He was just an artist and he wasn’t looking for money and it was just that was his like ah Passion project.
36:38.34
Nick _ Amanda
ah I’m sorry.
36:43.68
vigorbranding
So it’s just yeah, it’s crazy. But sorry. So now we’ve got we’ve we have a phenomenal steak you guys make the best steak on earth What sides you have a lot of sides what which sides are we getting? I mean everyone’s got their go-to’s at a steakhouse.
36:54.91
vigorbranding
What do we got in here?
36:57.19
Nick _ Amanda
Oh, so I always loved the twice baked potato. I think it’s phenomenal.
37:00.35
vigorbranding
I
37:00.52
Nick _ Amanda
I think it’s our go-to. We actually at one point were featured in, there was like a Idaho potato Gazette that came out and asked for an interview.
37:05.84
vigorbranding
Nice.
37:07.11
Nick _ Amanda
Cause they’re like, Oh, we’ve heard that you’ve got the biggest potatoes. I was like, well, if it’s coming from the Idaho potato Gazette, I’m pretty honored to hear that.
37:12.47
vigorbranding
That’s great.
37:13.86
Nick _ Amanda
Yeah. The twice baked is great. And then our cream corn. I love our cream corn. uh it’s got it it certainly got its sweetness from the corn and then we use cinnamon and i heard a customer described it as like it’s like taking a bite of christmas and i hadn’t heard that before and i was like that’s the perfectly summarized is kind of the cream corn and so it’s the i love to take a little cut of steak kind of
37:24.23
vigorbranding
There you go.
37:44.26
Nick _ Amanda
drag it through the cream corn a little bit to get some of that sweetness. And it’s ah to for me, it’s one of the most perfect bites.
37:49.86
vigorbranding
Fantastic. That’s awesome. And then what for dessert, I think I know the answer to this, but.
37:55.20
Nick _ Amanda
I mean, we i Our tableside desserts, they’re a ton of fun, right?
38:01.76
vigorbranding
Yep.
38:01.89
Nick _ Amanda
Anytime you’re going to light something on fire for a dessert, it’s awesome.
38:03.48
vigorbranding
Yeah, sure.
38:05.77
Nick _ Amanda
But I think, you know, it’s in their classic, in their pure, in their simple, ah but executed very well. So, I mean, I’m partial. We do two tableside flambe options.
38:16.73
Nick _ Amanda
Our bananas foster our cherries jubilee.
38:18.43
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
38:19.15
Nick _ Amanda
I am partial to the bananas. I think we use brown sugar with it. and A little banana liqueur, some 151, a little orange zest, and it is it is excellent.
38:27.87
vigorbranding
nice
38:30.02
Nick _ Amanda
But a Amanda has a separate opinion. So we ran this interesting test where a problem we were running into was, you know, when people make a reservation at the Valencia, let’s say states it’s a party of six, only one of you are probably giving us your information, whether it’s your phone or your email or what have you.
38:44.13
Nick _ Amanda
And so if you want to continue to build a relationship online with the rest of the party in there.
38:48.04
vigorbranding
Nice.
38:48.67
Nick _ Amanda
How do you get them to go to your site or engage or have some sort of a back?
38:50.40
vigorbranding
Mhm.
38:52.28
Nick _ Amanda
And so we realized that what is really strong is our social media presence. We are one of the most, if not the most vile restaurant in America on TikTok. We just passed 175 million views of hashtag gold.
39:02.98
vigorbranding
Wow.
39:03.56
Nick _ Amanda
yeah And so we were like, okay, what can we do to combine this in honor of our 65th? And how do we create what I call an organic trigger? So if you’re dining, you can do something else. And so I was like, okay, let’s play with the flames. What can we do? That’s going to be a flaming dessert that can be exciting, that can be different. And so we worked and created something called the Sapphire Jubilee in honor of the 65th anniversary. And of course you like throw some blue in there at the server’s head of it because they were always covered in like blue dust on their white shirts.
39:30.90
Nick _ Amanda
It was a little messy, but it was fabulous. And it really did turn bright blue flames. And so the I was like, okay, let’s try it. We’re going to make it where you can only order it if you have the code word from TikTok or Instagram.
39:42.30
vigorbranding
Wow, I like it.
39:44.36
Nick _ Amanda
We’ll look up on there or say something. Or then ah when the server says that to them, if they’ll follow us or try and find it. And sure enough, I was like, I have no idea how this is going to go. First night comes. And within like the first, I guess, hour of opening, boom, somebody ordered it with the code word. I’m like, all right, we’ve got something. And it was, to this day, it’s my favorite version of that flam bazer.
40:05.22
vigorbranding
That’s excellent. oh that’s and the The marketer in me is very proud and honored.
40:08.87
Nick _ Amanda
a
40:09.14
vigorbranding
That’s that’s fantastic. I mean, I love it.
40:10.55
Nick _ Amanda
yeah
40:11.44
vigorbranding
Really. i’ saids that’s ah It’s awesome.
40:11.84
Nick _ Amanda
and since sense that it’s
40:13.45
vigorbranding
um So I had the banana foster and it was wonderful.
40:14.75
Nick _ Amanda
so as foster
40:17.86
vigorbranding
um i So I have one last question for you guys, and and then you’re free to go. And you can’t say the golden steer, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why?
40:31.11
Nick _ Amanda
So for me, ah it’s risotto. Risotto was probably one of the first dishes that I really started to make during culinary school and just kind of fell in love with. I am ah studied in Rome, Italian heritage, and i i love like to me, it’s like,
40:55.32
Nick _ Amanda
such a pure distillation of Italian cooking. right it’s very at the At its core, it’s very simple, but there’s a lot of ways that you can that you can go wrong with it. um And it takes some work, right? You have to be standing over it with your wooden spoon, kind of slowly adding stock.
41:14.38
Nick _ Amanda
And it’s also a it’s kind of also almost a blank palate. So you can add orabela mushrooms or butternut squash or asparagus or any number of things. And so I think I would i love risotto and that would probably be my, that would be my five if I had to pick a final dish, that would be it.
41:33.19
vigorbranding
Nice. Amanda, you can say Nick’s risotto if you want.
41:34.49
Nick _ Amanda
and think
41:35.93
vigorbranding
I mean, ah, nice.
41:36.61
Nick _ Amanda
It’s close to that. So Nick was actually, was very kind and he he knows this well, but something that he makes for me on all of the special occasions is a beef wellington. And I’m very picky about how I like my beef wellington and all the things and he’s like really nailed it down.
41:51.40
Nick _ Amanda
I wasn’t before, he’s now like spoiled me and I blame him all the time. I’m like, you’ve created the monster here. So it would be the beef wellington that Nick does make for me because I do it amazing and it’s my favorite.
41:59.24
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Guys, I want to thank you.
42:01.92
Nick _ Amanda
i
42:02.99
vigorbranding
This was fantastic. Like I said, the first time I ever had a couple and you guys were great. There was no fighting. It was close. I thought there for a while over the desserts, but that was good.
42:07.74
Nick _ Amanda
yeah
42:09.71
vigorbranding
That was good. You guys do great. So thank you so much. It was my honor to talk to you guys and I really appreciate your time.
42:14.97
Nick _ Amanda
Well, thank you so much for having us on, Michael. low was ah It was an awesome conversation. We certainly appreciate being here.
42:20.11
vigorbranding
Good deal.
42:20.09
Nick _ Amanda
Pleasure.
...more October 21, 2024Anand Gala – Managing Partner of Gala Capital Group Anand is the Founder and Managing Partner of Gala Capital Partners, a diversified investment and holding company with interests in chain restaurants, software & technology, real estate development, franchising and public equities investment. He has spent the past 35 years in various executive capacities within the Software, Real Estate & Restaurant Industries.
Gala Capital Partners invests in (among other things) restaurants. The current portfolio includes CiCi’s Pizza, Famous Dave’s Barbeque, Rusty Taco and MOOYAH Burgers, Fries & Shakes.
Anand grew up in the restaurant industry. His mother was an early franchisee with Jack in the Box.
Anand’s parents knew the restaurant industry was a difficult career path, so they encouraged Anand to pursue other careers. He graduated from USC with a degree in biology, but he was drawn back into the family business and fell in love with it all over again.
When it comes to restaurants to invest in, Gala Capital Partners focuses on five key categories: burgers, chicken, tacos/Mexican, pizza and coffee.
The brands that Gala Capital Partners focus on are between 25-350 units. They call those “adolescent brands.”
When evaluating successful franchises, Anand starts with the quality of the food. Focusing on quality and taste is the easiest way for a restaurant to stand out from the competition.
QUOTES“(The restaurant industry) is usually the first job for many young adults and teenagers. It teaches them work ethic, it teaches them responsibility.” (Anand)
“When I returned to the (restaurant) business after university, I realized I could learn about finance, I could learn about accounting, I could learn about marketing, I could learn about HR, I could learn about IT, I could get into real estate. It was so multi-dimensional. It was remarkable and it just captivated me.” (Anand)
“There were many, many humbling experiences. When you’re 25 you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. I had a couple lessons that I learned the hard way and I think I’m far better off for it today.” (Anand)
“I’d encourage each and every (restaurant) executive to go work a week and do that every single year. You don’t know what a franchisee goes through and you don’t know what a store manager goes through until you’ve done it.” (Anand)
“Each and every one of our restaurant brands plays a significant role in how you serve the customer.” (Anand)
“Our typical franchisee and the ideal profile is somebody who is new to franchising and really wants to get into the business and work in the business and be hands on in the stores. Or it’s going to be someone in a smaller market of the family business and they’ve got anywhere from 3 to 30 locations and they really love being hands on and involved.” (Anand)
“We want very active and hands on operators. People who want to be there and build relationships with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks we’re looking for.” (Anand)
TRANSCRIPT00:01.44
vigorbranding
Hello, everyone. Today’s guest is Anand Gala of Gala Capital Partners. Put simply, Anand is an investor, and one of those investments is restaurants. But I’ve known him for quite a while, and I’m always blown away by his stories, his growth, and and everything in between. So this will be a great conversation. Anand, welcome to Fork Tales. Thanks for doing this program.
00:25.38
Anand Gala
Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Michael.
00:28.50
vigorbranding
Perfect. Well, hey, so I know we were talking, catching up a little bit before because I’m fortunate to have known you for a while. um You know, I was saying, when people hear about Gala Capital Partners, it sounds ah very regal, which it is. It’s an amazing company and the growth is is astronomical, which we’ll talk about, but it didn’t really all start out that way, did it?
00:47.08
Anand Gala
You know, no, it’s everybody’s got a, everybody’s got a story. I guess you can say everybody’s got a story. And mine is um is probably very familiar.
00:58.92
Anand Gala
to many others that are you know that were raised in immigrant families that that came from humble beginnings. And it’s just a story of a lot of hard work. It’s a story of intentionality by my family, by my parents to really invest in me ah in an education around operations and around entrepreneurship that candidly none of us really knew we were doing at the time.
01:24.49
vigorbranding
Yeah, I mean, you you were literally, I think when I first met you, you you were a child basically being babysat by the dishwasher, right? You were in the restaurants at a young, young age. Talk a little bit about that.
01:34.34
Anand Gala
Yeah, absolutely. So my mom was a franchisee of Jack in the Box. And that was early on when they just began franchising. I think she might have been franchisee number two.
01:45.49
vigorbranding
Wow.
01:45.60
Anand Gala
And that was 1982 or 83. I must have been eight or nine years old. And she started working 16, 18, 20 hours a day because you know that’s what an operator does.
01:56.08
Anand Gala
That’s what an entrepreneur does. You have to figure it out. And I just didn’t see her very often. And so therefore, the best way for her to make sure that she had an eye on me and I spent time with her was for her to bring me to work. And that was daycare. That was after school care. That was vacations and holiday care. You know, that’s what it was. That’s how I spent my time. And so I literally grew up in the back of a restaurant ah and in some cases standing on a milk crate so I could see over the front counter and and talk to customers. But that that was it within eyesight and earshot.
02:27.89
vigorbranding
That’s great. And you know, the the restaurant business has to be in your blood. And obviously, yeah it was literally infused in you from a young age. And I think that’s, ah again, i you can’t help to learn, you can’t help to see. I think it’s one of the most incredible experiences ah for anybody ah is to work in a restaurant. You learn a lot about sales, you learn a lot about people, about hustle, about ah yeah just everything in in between, dealing with problems on your feet. When someone complains, it’s ah it’s ah it’s a phenomenal way to ah get an education, that’s for sure.
02:57.22
Anand Gala
Absolutely. and i’ll And I’ll take it a step further. I think it’s fascinating because it not only teaches you all of the things that you mentioned, it’s usually the first job for many young adults or or teenagers.
03:07.18
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
03:09.41
Anand Gala
It teaches them work ethic. It teaches them responsibility. And one thing that candidly, I’m not sure how it gets taught other than maybe in the home or or through your church or temple or or what have you,
03:22.08
Anand Gala
But it’s respect for others, regardless of the position that they’re in. ah It’s an appreciation for hard work and how much it takes to really earn a dollar.
03:32.67
Anand Gala
And the fact that people do what they do so that they can support themselves, their families, have some spending money, develop some independence, it’s remarkable. And, you know, those are lessons and values that don’t get taught very often in many other places.
03:46.25
vigorbranding
Yeah, no doubt. So okay, so you you youre you’re you’re young, you’re in the restaurant, you’re you’re eight, then you go to USC, right? And you you graduate with a degree in biology. ah So that was, you weren’t on the restaurant path, I don’t think at that point. So what happened there? Where were you headed? Where did you go? And where did how did you end up here?
04:04.53
Anand Gala
Yeah, it’s, you know, don’t don’t all good restaurant operators go into the sciences? Of course. ah it it it is a It is a fascinating path and it’s one that, ah you know, my my parents recognized how hard the restaurant business was. And they wanted my brother and I to have a better life. They wanted us to get an education and and really not have to go through the trials and tribulations that they went through, as every parent wants for their children.
04:31.20
Anand Gala
So they thought, hey, we’ll have our kids become doctors. ah That would be great. And I thought, boy, wouldn’t medical school be easier than running a restaurant until I, you know, I i took the ah med school entrance exams and and I tried a couple of interviews for for med schools and I realized that’s not what I wanted to do. I probably should have come to that conclusion much, much earlier in college, but I waited until the end.
04:54.40
Anand Gala
And, ah you know, I thought, okay, I’ll just go help out in the family business, because I know how to do that. And my parents thought, okay, you know, he’s gonna realize how hard this is, and he’ll change his mind quickly and run to med school. And as I got back into the business, I realized how much it just came second nature, how much I truly enjoyed it. And candidly, how much it had to offer. When I was growing up, I thought, boy, the only thing it has to offer is operations.
05:21.61
Anand Gala
And I got a great education and experience in operations. But when I returned to the business after university, I realized I can learn about finance. I can learn about accounting. I can learn about marketing. I can learn about HR. I can learn about IT. t I can get into real estate. there It was so multidimensional. It was remarkable. And it just captivated me. It drew me in. And I had an insatiable curiosity and appetite to learn.
05:47.54
Anand Gala
and And so every single day it drew me in further and further and further to the point that there was just no return. This was it.
05:54.51
vigorbranding
that’s That’s, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, so I mean, now we’ll jump into to to to life after after school, you you get involved as a is a franchisee, correct? That’s what you that’s that was your first sort of for you were young, I think you bought your first franchise, right?
06:11.11
Anand Gala
Yeah, that’s right. So you know growing up in the restaurant space was fantastic. But the challenge at the time within Jack in the Box was there were a limited number of franchisees that were allowed to expand. And it was because the company was in a very large expansion phase for itself. And so in large markets like Houston and Los Angeles where we operated, there simply weren’t that many opportunities for us because the company had already scouted them out and had already tied them up.
06:40.93
Anand Gala
So I left the family business when I was 25 and I became ah I think the youngest franchisee for Applebee’s and started building stores throughout California the exact same time same year I became I believe also the youngest franchisee for Del Taco at the time.
06:59.02
vigorbranding
wow
06:59.12
Anand Gala
And I was 25 years old. I was building Applebee’s from Bakersfield to Fresno and and later in the Bay Area and was building Del Taco restaurants outside of Sacramento and Modesto and Stockton and small markets there as well as in Phoenix, Arizona. And so I was traveling a lot and I think when you’re young and you’re not married and you don’t have other responsibilities and You’ve got a lot of energy.
07:22.40
Anand Gala
ah You can really you know push the push the pedal. And so I did. I learned a great deal during that period of time. And I learned a lot about what ah what I did know and what I didn’t know.
07:31.09
vigorbranding
Y
07:33.97
Anand Gala
I’ll tell you, there were many, many humbling experiences.
07:35.59
vigorbranding
‘all bet.
07:37.63
Anand Gala
Because when you’re 25, you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. And I had a couple of lessons that I learned the hard way. And um I think i’m I’m far better off for it today.
07:49.97
vigorbranding
Yeah, we’ve learned a lot more from our mistakes and our wins, that’s for sure.
07:53.08
Anand Gala
Yeah.
07:53.18
vigorbranding
And ah so it’s it’s interesting too, because we’ll talk about this in a moment, but I mean, you know, obviously, ah you know, at Vigor, we do marketing for restaurants, and we deal with ah franchisees, and we deal with franchisors, the folks that own the brand and control the brand.
08:07.88
vigorbranding
And and sometimes there’s, there’s dissension among the ranks. I mean, there’s, you know, and you’re you’re you’re on both sides of it. So I’ll be really interested to hear your perspective on the whole thing.
08:18.23
Anand Gala
Yeah, yeah it’s it’s been a fascinating journey, having been a franchisee from 83 all the way to or 82, I guess all the way to, I think about 2014 is when we finally ah decided we were going to start selling and not start selling the brands, but we exited most of the brands that we were involved in.
08:35.37
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
08:37.22
Anand Gala
And so prior to that, we had sold our jack in the box business and sold our Del Taco business and, and then by 2014 sold our Applebee’s business. And we we still our franchisees a famous day’s barbecue in California.
08:46.15
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
08:49.86
Anand Gala
ah But then starting in 2017, we started investing in and acquiring small franchiseurs. And what’s interesting is we took a very different approach to being a franchisor. Having walked a mile in the shoes of the franchisee, literally, and still being a franchisee, i I fundamentally understand the approach to business and the relationship that a franchisee has. And I try to bring that knowledge and experience and insight to the relationship that we bring as a franchisor.
09:23.64
Anand Gala
We acknowledge that a franchisee makes their money off the bottom line and a franchisor makes their money off the top line. That being said, discounting your royalty is not the solution you because you want a financially strong franchisor that has the capital to make the investments in the people and the systems and the resources to really drive your business.
09:45.68
Anand Gala
If you cut the royalty down to call it 1%, what’s left for them?
09:45.83
vigorbranding
That’s right.
09:48.63
vigorbranding
Mhm.
09:50.10
Anand Gala
you’re not gonna get the best talent, you’re not gonna get the best support. And so it becomes a vicious cycle if you go down that road. I think that what most franchisees ah do focus on and and I think many recognize is rather than try to reduce the royalty, let’s drive accountability and expectations with the franchise or to say we expect best in class marketing, best in class leadership, best in class operations,
10:11.11
vigorbranding
Mhm.
10:17.38
Anand Gala
um And so please make sure that you’re hiring those people, make sure that you’re driving those attributes ah through the brands, because that’s what makes us better. you know Please invest in us, please support us. And that’s how we try to bring the parties together. That doesn’t mean that we’re free of any discontent from time to time, but that’s our responsibility is to work through that.
10:42.35
vigorbranding
Sure. I mean, I’ve always said and I feel very strongly that empathy is probably one of the more powerful like emotions, if you will, and you know, understanding both sides of it from where you’re your you seat from growing up in it. And then being on the other side, it’s I think that’s very powerful to have that that understanding that that that intelligence that hey, I understand I’ve been in your shoes. I know what’s important to you. Here’s what’s important. And and there’s this partnership, right?
11:06.60
vigorbranding
It’s almost like you treat them with as family. ands they’re’re’re They’re a part of your company because they are. i mean they’re They’re your brand. right They’re an extension of it.
11:13.80
Anand Gala
Absolutely, and I would even go a step further and I’d encourage each and every executive or leader in a franchise or to go work a week and do that every single year in the stores because honestly, you don’t know what a franchisee goes through.
11:23.83
vigorbranding
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
11:29.38
Anand Gala
You don’t know what a store manager goes through until you’ve done it. You you may have the the best degrees on the wall. um and and lots of experience from lots of other brands, but until you really walk a mile and and do what they do, ah then I think you build a tremendous amount of credibility and and candidly empathy at the same time.
11:49.25
vigorbranding
Sure.
11:49.40
Anand Gala
So I think it helps you connect with with lots of operators and franchisees.
11:55.71
vigorbranding
That’s great. So, okay. So one of your biggest investments was Muyah, burgers, fries, and shakes. Okay. So, and i I was fortunate.
12:01.37
Anand Gala
Yeah.
12:02.41
vigorbranding
I actually came out to see you. I was out in California and I ate at one of your, at one of your restaurants. Phenomenal. It was a great ah burger. I’m not just saying that now, but the thing is there’s lots of burgers out there. And I was quoted on a previous podcast.
12:13.42
vigorbranding
ah I had a gentleman by the name of Audley Wilson on who created a robo burger, which is the yeah ah basically the burger vending machine.
12:18.71
Anand Gala
Yeah, yeah.
12:21.05
vigorbranding
And, you know, ah my my line my line was no one American ever went bankrupt trying to feed America hamburgers. So, I mean, but there’s a lot of competition out there, isn’t there? I mean, how does how do you guys stand out?
12:30.45
Anand Gala
there There is.
12:31.03
vigorbranding
I mean, you know, I mean, I know it’s ah a phenomenal product with great ingredients, but talk talk a little bit about dumuya.
12:38.44
Anand Gala
Well, i’ll I’ll frame it in a way that I think you’ll definitely get and I’m sure your audience will get, which is why compete with everybody else? Why play their game? they you know If you’re playing somebody else’s game, then you are automatically at a disadvantage because they’ve been playing it a lot longer.
12:54.46
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
12:56.28
Anand Gala
They created the rules. They’ve been doing this for a while and they know how to win. They’re gonna tilt the deck in their in their favor. So I think you have to decide what you do that is distinct, that is different. How do you define yourself? And so at Mujah, it’s a very simple approach. It’s better ingredients, it’s better quality, it’s better tasting, ah and it’s done with more hospitality, and it’s done fresh in store every day. And so that’s the approach we take, is that we wanna have fresh, never frozen meat, and we want it to be certified Angus beef,
13:33.11
Anand Gala
we fresh bake our buns in the stores every day, we hand cut our fries, you know, we only use the highest quality ingredients, and we don’t make anything until you order it. So these are all of the different things that we think are distinct and unique.
13:48.02
Anand Gala
And, you know, nobody ever um disliked high quality and great taste.
13:54.56
vigorbranding
right
13:54.79
Anand Gala
So our perspective is we’re going to compete on taste, on quality, on service, on experience. Now that may cost a little bit more, but candidly when you put it all together and you’re doing sort of the value formula, it still comes out to be a tremendous value because of what you get, not what you pay.
14:13.95
vigorbranding
Yeah, no doubt. So, okay, burgers aren’t your only restaurant. You’re you’re involved with a portfolio. you have You have pizza, tacos, coffee, and everything in between. what What criteria do you use when evaluating which restaurants to invest in?
14:27.84
Anand Gala
Well, your statement earlier, which was nobody ever lost money selling hamburgers to Americans, I would take it a step further and say, you know, there’s a bunch of different categories where
14:37.50
vigorbranding
Yeah.
14:38.40
Anand Gala
The world already knows what you do and how to use your business or your product or your brand. And so we focus on five primary categories. That doesn’t mean that we won’t look at and invest in things around the periphery as well. But those five categories are burger, chicken, tacos or Mexican pizza and coffee. And not only are they pervasive in American society and candidly, I think foundational.
15:04.85
Anand Gala
um But I think that what American society culture and its tremendous marketing ah machine behind so many of its companies has done a great job of is exporting that culture around the world.
15:14.31
vigorbranding
Yeah.
15:18.82
Anand Gala
I can open up a coffee joint anywhere in the world and I can guarantee you that that local community knows exactly how to use that brand, that product, that concept. The same is true with pizza. The same is true with chicken.
15:30.19
Anand Gala
The same is true with tacos and Mexican food. and And thank God for the Taco Bells and the Chipotle’s and so many others that have blazed a trail before us. um and And that end is, it for example, just in the Mexican category, but the same is true in each and every one of those categories.
15:48.21
Anand Gala
So our primary focus is within these five big categories.
15:51.97
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
15:52.18
Anand Gala
We love these brands and we think we can bring a higher quality, better experience approach to each and every one of them.
15:59.57
vigorbranding
It’s fantastic. So you went from being a franchisee to now you own these brands and you own is it rusty taco, you have CC’s pizza, Dunn Brothers coffee, Muyah burger, what am I missing one?
16:12.76
Anand Gala
Nope, that’s it, that’s it.
16:13.57
vigorbranding
Is that it?
16:13.90
Anand Gala
those are the those Those are the main ones, yeah, absolutely.
16:14.05
vigorbranding
Okay, good. I nailed it. Yeah, yeah. That’s fantastic.
16:17.73
Anand Gala
Yeah, so we’ve we’ve we’ve invested in these brands and some of them we’ve got partners and you know we’re just excited.
16:18.25
vigorbranding
So
16:23.95
Anand Gala
we We think that each and every one of them plays a significant role in how you serve the customer. So for example, Cece’s Pizza is a buffet concept.
16:35.11
Anand Gala
um And people, you know they they may attribute buffet with a lower quality. I’ll tell you, if you walked into the back of a Cece’s, Everything is fresh. They make their dough in-store fresh every single day.
16:46.57
Anand Gala
The quality of the ingredients is really, really high. in And I was very surprised by that. I mean, it’s it’s a really high quality product. um So I encourage folks to go and focus on the quality because you can’t go wrong.
16:58.93
vigorbranding
Hmm.
17:01.08
Anand Gala
You’re you’re always going to have a better tasting product with a higher quality product.
17:02.21
vigorbranding
Hmm. That’s great. So now on the opposite end there, so how how do you then ah interview or evaluate potential like franchisees or investors?
17:15.40
vigorbranding
How does that work? I mean, again, playing both sides, these are your babies now. And you know you don’t want to just hand that that off to someone who’s got some money enough money to buy it.
17:19.65
Anand Gala
Yeah.
17:23.70
vigorbranding
it’s you know There’s got to be a lot more to it than that, especially for all the care that you put into it.
17:28.63
Anand Gala
Well, the brands that we focus on tend to be anywhere from 25 to 350 units.
17:33.92
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
17:34.33
Anand Gala
And so we call those adolescent brands. They’re past proof of concept. They’re in a couple of markets. um Maybe they’ve already started franchising. And you know maybe they’ve just hit a speed bump somewhere.
17:45.32
Anand Gala
Maybe they’re just out of favor. They’re not very sexy. But they are great businesses. As we think about it, every brand goes through a cycle. And there’s a cycle of of evolution and then innovation and then scaling up and so forth.
17:55.57
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
18:00.85
Anand Gala
And so the same franchisee that’s a 300 unit KFC or Taco Bell franchisee may not be an ideal candidate for what we do. because they’re focused on scale. They’re focused on large markets controlling big pieces of the business. And candidly, we’re focused on folks that are really involved in their market. So our our typical franchisee and probably the the ideal profile of our franchisee is gonna be somebody who is either new to franchising but really wants to get into the business and work in their business um and and be hands-on and in the stores.
18:38.32
Anand Gala
or it’s gonna be somebody that’s probably in a smaller market or it’s a family business and they’ve got anywhere from three to 30 locations amongst whatever they’re involved in.
18:48.51
vigorbranding
Yeah.
18:50.53
Anand Gala
And they they really love being very hands-on, not to mean that they’re in the stores every day all the time, but they really enjoy being involved in their business. It’s not going to be just an investment for them.
19:03.06
Anand Gala
They really they they believe this is it. And so we want very active hands-on operators. that’s the That’s the easiest way for us to describe them. ah and And so when somebody really knows their business, they know their business and they want to be there.
19:16.69
Anand Gala
They want to, you know, build relationships with their with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks that we’re looking for.
19:28.70
Anand Gala
And those are the ones that that do the best in our organization.
19:28.83
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
19:31.48
vigorbranding
most successful at the end of the day, right?
19:32.98
Anand Gala
Yeah, absolutely.
19:33.61
vigorbranding
Very cool. Probably like ah your mom was, right? When she started out, you know?
19:36.82
Anand Gala
That’s right. That’s right.
19:39.60
vigorbranding
I mean, it you know, it all comes back around. So when when you look at like a successful growing restaurants or I guess brands to maybe invest in or buy, um is there a common denominator? Is it always like that sort of fresh type of thing?
19:50.01
vigorbranding
Or is there anything that you have in your criteria that you’re that you’re really kind of honing in on as far as there’s something you’re seeing in the market that you that you’re that you find to be ah ah successful or you think will be successful?
20:01.93
Anand Gala
You know, the the ingredients are very simple. um First and foremost, we start with the food. And interestingly, a lot of people look at franchises and they just see it as a business.
20:13.19
Anand Gala
They don’t think of it as what does the business do. So we always, as I mentioned earlier, we have a ah disproportionate focus on quality.
20:20.47
vigorbranding
That’s
20:21.19
Anand Gala
And so we start with the food. I think in in a world where there is so much commoditization and so much a sea of sameness across so many different brands and products, the the easy way to stand out is focus on quality, focus on taste.
20:23.39
vigorbranding
great.
20:38.35
Anand Gala
People go out to eat because food tastes good. If you wanted bad food or you wanted bland food, you could probably just do that yourself. But you go to restaurants because they’re known for something.
20:49.96
Anand Gala
And so we wanna make sure that when you come in and you’re getting something that we are known for, that you say that’s a darn good, whatever it is, taco, burger, pizza, that’s a darn good ah you know beverage, coffee, tea, you know whatever that was. And you wanna say, geez, I’m glad I went out for that rather than trying to make something at home.
21:10.45
Anand Gala
So distinctly, it’s gotta be darn good. Now from there, we look at the bones of the business and usually we’re investing in things that we think we can substantially improve.
21:22.44
Anand Gala
Whether it’s unit count, whether it’s quality or process or profitability, but if the product itself is pretty darn good, then you can work on the rest.
21:31.08
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
21:31.73
Anand Gala
You can figure out how to get them to better profitability, faster growth, ah yeah what whatever it may be, we think we can help.
21:32.06
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
21:39.94
vigorbranding
Yeah. but You make a really good point, a very stupid one, especially when it comes to food. like you know Obviously, we have the vigor brand for the markets, restaurants, but we also have ah an agency called Quench. It does food and beverage and CPG.
21:51.67
vigorbranding
And what we’ve known and noticed is you know when the economy is down, sure, there’s there’s a reason out there for dollar menus and there’s saving stuff. But you know the the place where people will, for lack of a better word, treat themselves is is what they put in their mouths, right?
22:04.79
vigorbranding
I mean, so they’ll they’ll they’ll still pay for premium ice cream.
22:05.31
Anand Gala
Absolutely.
22:08.35
vigorbranding
when it’s when things aren’t so good because that’s that that little pleasure they can have it’s not it’s not you know obviously it’s not some overindulgence or ah a great expense but a great burger i mean it’s pretty it brings a lot of joy you know so yeah
22:21.99
Anand Gala
It’s the little things that bring you joy. I couldn’t agree more. I’ll tell you, you know, I didn’t understand the difference in the various qualities of ice cream, ah except in the CPG aisle, right? you You knew that you could get the store brand, which was one thing. And don’t get me wrong, it’s tasty. And it’s a nice treat. Or you could go for the super premium with a very high butterfat.
22:42.97
Anand Gala
Um, and, and so I thought, well, geez, I guess this experience only exists in the grocery aisle until one day I tried a Brewster’s or a Handel’s ice cream.
22:53.69
Anand Gala
Uh, and, and I was blown away. Now it’s not the kind of thing that you’re going to go for every day or every week.
22:59.51
vigorbranding
Right.
23:00.35
Anand Gala
But when I think about having ice cream, I can go to a lot of different places, or I can just say when I go out for ice cream. as infrequently or frequently as that is, I just wanna get something that I know is gonna be so delicious.
23:14.33
vigorbranding
right.
23:15.67
Anand Gala
And I’m gonna go to the place where it’s just gonna knock my socks off. And I’ll pay just a little bit more and I’m okay with that. I just won’t do it as often. But I want it when I want and it. And I’ll tell ya, it’s the service, it’s the quality, it’s the taste.
23:29.23
Anand Gala
Those things combined create the addiction that you just have to have it.
23:32.64
vigorbranding
That’s it. and I’m sure in most of your brands, you have a lot of repeat clients coming in because they’re they’re getting the quality, they see the quality, they taste the quality, and it’s worth it. It’s an ongoing, probably, I’m sure it becomes habitual. so that’s That’s fantastic. so okay I want to talk about like the ru last year, I think it was last year, you bought Rusty Taco and Dunn Brothers.
23:53.84
vigorbranding
um with Gala Capital. He did it with ah an all cash deal. So you didn’t take on any debt. um Talk to me about cash deals and and what are the advantages, disadvantages, and I know you’re you’re adverse to debt. I i am too. So I absolutely respect that. So talk to me a little bit about that and how you how you’ve done all that.
24:10.94
Anand Gala
Well, you know but in in both cases, they needed some investment. They needed some love. And if you put leverage on a business, you’ve got a lot of reporting requirements. You’ve got you know metrics that you’ve got to hit, ratios you’ve got to hit and report to your bank. It it puts constraints on you.
24:28.99
Anand Gala
Debt is not bad. Debt is fine. It’s a tool to grow a business. But the business has to be ready to grow in a meaningful way. And it’s got to be pretty stable and strong ah in order to continue to fulfill those criteria that your bank is going to ask you about. And in the case of these two brands, we thought that these businesses needed some work. They weren’t they weren’t bad businesses, but they just needed some work.
24:55.76
Anand Gala
And our perspective is we’d rather do that with our own money and do it in a way that we don’t have a lot of constraints on us. We can make the investments that we need to make that are for the long run. And that may be five years, 10 years, 20 years, but when you’ve got ah when you’ve got debt, you know you really need to focus on cash flow rather than making those investments that need to happen and pay off over the long period of time.
25:20.85
Anand Gala
because you’ve got to service that debt. So our perspective is let’s do it where we’ve got a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility. Let’s go ahead and make these investments. We’ll do it with all cash. And that way we’ve got a little more control over what we do, when we do, how we do. And as we get these things ready and we’re starting to grow them and scale them up, then we’ll look at what can they support reasonably. And we’ll we’ll probably put a little bit of debt on each of these businesses, but it’ll be some time in the future.
25:50.74
vigorbranding
Gotcha. That makes total sense. so So when you’re working on on a new franchise, um you always you make it a point to have very detailed conversations with current franchisees, which is is very smart. um How does that process work? And you know what do you learn you know from those conversations?
26:08.06
Anand Gala
Well, I think that there are some franchisees that candidly have just been waiting for the phone to ring so they can talk to somebody. It is fascinating to me how infrequently folks are speaking to franchisees, including executives of brands.
26:22.83
Anand Gala
They think they’ve got it all figured out and they’re just gonna send the memos out and send the promotions out and everybody needs to get on board. Now, in in many cases, that may be true, but you do need, this is a team effort. You gotta remember, the franchisee puts up the money. The franchisee runs that restaurant.
26:40.17
Anand Gala
you You know, they’re taking more risks than the franchise or. And so you have to respect them as effectively your partner in the business. And you don’t always have to agree. They did sign an agreement. You do control the intellectual property and you’re going to set the the tone and the direction of the brand and the business. But it’s a collaboration.
27:00.32
Anand Gala
and And I think no different than in a successful marriage or a successful partnership or even in a successful corporate environment. You have to find a way to effectively communicate with your peers. And I consider the franchisees to be our peers. So we want to hear them. We want to listen to them. We want to take their ideas and their feedback into consideration. And ah you know, listen, we’re we’re not the ones that have it all figured out.
27:24.87
Anand Gala
As the old saying goes, some of the best ideas come from the franchisees because they are toeto toe to toe face to face with the customer.
27:30.43
vigorbranding
Yeah.
27:31.97
Anand Gala
They see the behavior.
27:32.45
vigorbranding
That’s it.
27:32.93
Anand Gala
They see the interaction every single day more often than we do. That’s for sure.
27:38.07
vigorbranding
Yeah, they’re the boots on the ground. Have you ever backed away um from a deal based on and you certainly don’t have to mention any names, but have you ever backed away from a deal based on some feedback that you’ve heard from the franchisees? It kind of scared you off a little bit.
27:48.85
Anand Gala
You know, we have, we have actually.
27:50.73
vigorbranding
Wow.
27:50.94
Anand Gala
ah there There were concerns in one brand that we looked at and there were a number of franchisees that said, geez, you know, um I’m not making money. I’m losing a lot of money. I can’t keep doing this.
28:02.56
Anand Gala
I’m just gonna close my store down. And we heard that over and over and over again. So then you have to think to yourself, what am I really buying? And and maybe the investment banker did a great job in polishing this thing up and and putting a story behind it.
28:16.29
Anand Gala
But, you know, when you really get to the reality of it, this wasn’t gonna be much of a brand for much longer. And so we have to make the hard decisions that we either are gonna say, no, thank you, or we’re gonna you know we’re going to have to recommend a price adjustment um because we think in order to really stem the stem the loss there of franchisees, we’re gonna have to put a lot of incentive in place. We’re gonna have to make a big investment into them and their marketing and their operations. And that changes the economics of a deal.
28:48.13
vigorbranding
Yeah, I mean, that that that that totally, totally tracks. I mean, and it’s it’s interesting because yeah as an agency, too, we’ve we’ve had several situations where, and we were talking about this earlier, you were on both sides, the franchisee-franchise, or I think that’s really, in a way, your superpower. I think your empathy and the understanding really is ah is ah is it a massive benefit ah in your in your world. and ah But many times, we’ve been asked to for lack of a word act like the whatever you call it bulletproof vest liaison mediator between the the franchisees and the franchisor and I always felt like that was like uh I mean we’re happy to do it as an agency but I always felt like that that that just it signals that there’s a really a communication gap you know what I mean that to you really should you know yeah
29:29.90
Anand Gala
Oh, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I encourage people have the hard conversations. I’m not saying that you’re gonna be comfortable doing it. They they are uncomfortable conversations, but it that’s just life.
29:43.08
Anand Gala
That’s just life.
29:44.79
vigorbranding
Yeah, no doubt. All right. Well, let’s have some fun with us now. How, I mean, you have a lot of restaurants.
29:47.59
Anand Gala
Yeah.
29:49.23
vigorbranding
I mean, obviously you can, you have your choice every day. I’m sure you do, but you, you eat in your restaurants that you invest in, correct?
29:55.66
Anand Gala
Oh, every week, every single week, yep.
29:56.65
vigorbranding
Okay. That’s what I wanted to ask you. How often and like, what, you know, is it a coffee thing? Then I’ll get a pizza one day and maybe a burger the next.
30:03.48
Anand Gala
Yeah, I’ll mix it up, exactly.
30:04.69
vigorbranding
Nice. Nice. Nice. All right. So now I want to get your opinions on some of the menu items in your restaurants and your current portfolio.
30:10.38
Anand Gala
Okay.
30:11.59
vigorbranding
Okay. So what’s the best burger on the menu at Mujah? What’s your go-to?
30:16.68
Anand Gala
You know, so so Best Burger, that’s such a personal question, right? Everybody’s got their own approach. Mine, I’m i’m a real fan of what made them successful, right? What is their core product? And for us, our core classic is the Muyad Double Cheeseburger.
30:37.47
vigorbranding
Nice.
30:37.60
Anand Gala
Man, it is just such a amazing, delicious burger the way that it should be made. It’s it’s fantastic. If I’m feeling indulgent, i’ll I’ll pop some jalapenos on there, but oh, it’s my go-to.
30:48.61
vigorbranding
Uh, I’m getting hungry. I didn’t eat lunch today. So I’m, you know, I’m with East coast. So I’m, I’m, I’m ready.
30:54.19
Anand Gala
Yeah.
30:54.60
vigorbranding
That’s, that’s fantastic. All right. CCs. If you’re building your own pizza, what are we getting?
30:59.66
Anand Gala
So again, I’m a classic kind of guy. It’s gonna be probably a pepperoni, ah but I’ll tell you what, if you haven’t had it,
31:01.97
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
31:07.71
Anand Gala
Cece’s is known for a mac and cheese pizza.
31:12.16
vigorbranding
Oh, wow.
31:12.46
Anand Gala
Now, it’s not something you’re gonna eat every day, but it is definitely something you have got to try. It is addictive.
31:19.32
vigorbranding
I’ll take your river. I’m Italian. So I’m, you know, Mac and cheese. We never put it on pizza. I don’t know. So, but that’s definitely and both good foods.
31:22.99
Anand Gala
I know, I know. It sounds wacky, but you just gotta give it a shot one day.
31:28.54
vigorbranding
You know, put it together. You know, it’s like peanut butter and jelly probably. So maybe, maybe it works.
31:31.22
Anand Gala
Yeah.
31:32.65
vigorbranding
ah Famous Dave’s barbecue. You ribs, chicken or catfish?
31:36.50
Anand Gala
Boy, I’m gonna throw you for a loop here. um Although I love all three of those, but you’ve gotta try the brisket.
31:44.14
vigorbranding
Ah, okay.
31:44.11
Anand Gala
Oh my goodness, it is fantastic.
31:45.58
vigorbranding
love I do love brisket.
31:47.29
Anand Gala
Now, if i’m if I’m not having the brisket, it’s the St. Louis style ribs. Hands down, the juiciest, meatiest ribs I’ve ever had in my life. They are, oh, they’re addictive.
31:59.10
vigorbranding
You’re you’re not not just the owner, you’re you’re you’re obviously a connoisseur and a fan, so and comes that comes through. That’s not marketing, I can tell. All right, Dumb Brothers Coffee. how what What are we ordering there? like what What’s your go-to there?
32:10.93
Anand Gala
So if you don’t know much about Dunn Brothers, we roast our coffee fresh in the locations.
32:15.52
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
32:17.25
Anand Gala
That is really unique. um And so the coffee you’re having, or coffee-based drink you’re having, the coffee that goes into that has been roasted within the last few days.
32:27.48
vigorbranding
Be a test.
32:27.62
Anand Gala
That, if you haven’t tried fresh roasted coffee, is remarkable. You can truly, truly taste the difference.
32:35.40
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
32:36.61
Anand Gala
So for me, it’s just what is the um the the micro lot or special roast that they have during that time frame? And it’s that with maybe just a little bit of milk or just a splash of cream, but just trying to keep it simple so you really get all the real flavors and notes of that coffee coming through.
32:57.21
Anand Gala
So I’m a simple guy when it comes to coffee.
32:57.36
vigorbranding
Absolutely. Yeah. Hey, i mine’s just black with a few ice cubes in it. You know, I call it the grandma Agnes move.
33:02.69
Anand Gala
Yeah.
33:03.95
vigorbranding
My grandmother used to always put ice cubes in her coffee.
33:05.46
Anand Gala
Yeah.
33:06.56
vigorbranding
And so I’ve been drinking coffee all my life, but I love just black ice, black coffee with a little ice cubes in it. And I said, I don’t do the triple latte half oat milk.
33:12.68
Anand Gala
so So you’re saying that grandma invented, grandma invented iced coffee.
33:15.46
vigorbranding
yeah There you go.
33:17.38
Anand Gala
That’s what you’re telling me.
33:18.12
vigorbranding
yeah It’s not even ice, just a few ice cubes just so I don’t burn my mouth. And it’s probably because I like to drink coffee and I don’t, you know, so it’s not, not loaded with ice, just, you know, a few ice cubes just to cool it off.
33:21.75
Anand Gala
Ah, okay.
33:26.57
vigorbranding
Right? So very, very sensitive lips.
33:27.05
Anand Gala
All right.
33:29.61
vigorbranding
Okay. Rusty taco, pork, beef, shrimp, chicken.
33:31.44
Anand Gala
Yes, sir.
33:34.24
Anand Gala
you gotta to try the Rusty Taco. It’s the original named for our founder, the namesake.
33:36.79
vigorbranding
Okay. home
33:40.53
Anand Gala
It’s it’s ah it’s pork with some chunks of pineapple. ah It’s just, I mean, it’s a classic taco, ah which which is the foundation of what Rusty built the brand upon.
33:53.80
Anand Gala
Now we’ve got a bunch of others and and they’re very sort of Tex-Mex, Taqueria style tacos that are really delicious. So there’s that one. And then I would say, ah Boy, that’s that’s the that’s my go-to every single time, yeah.
34:08.65
vigorbranding
Perfect. That’s perfect. So, okay.
34:11.72
Anand Gala
Oh, by the way, if yeah if you haven’t tried, um the queso at Rusty Taco is off the charts. People don’t know that we have it, but we’ve got nachos and you can do that with the queso and you can do brisket or pulled pork or you know any kind of topping you want on there, just off the charts, fantastic.
34:27.40
vigorbranding
Perfect.
34:30.84
vigorbranding
Well, you’re killing me. Like I said, I haven’t eaten lunch yet. It’s going to one o’clock. So this is this is this is all good. I got to figure out what i’m gonna we’re going to have now. It’s all going through my head. So, okay. What’s what’s up? What’s next for, for, for gala partners? I mean, is there anything else on the horizon? I mean, obviously if you can’t talk about, it you can’t talk about, but anything that you’re, any categories you’re excited about, anything you’re kind of looking at, it anything you can talk about there.
34:52.63
Anand Gala
You know, honestly, we’re excited about what we have in the portfolio. we We have so much runway with every one of these businesses that we have that it’s really got to be something special to get our attention.
34:55.64
vigorbranding
Absolutely.
34:58.52
vigorbranding
absolutely
35:02.75
Anand Gala
And right now we just haven’t seen anything that’s that special. So we just double down on what we have and we’re just going deep, going long.
35:09.62
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
35:10.05
Anand Gala
you know With Dunn Brothers, we just expanded into K-Cups and into CPG, so we’re we’re pushing some of our coffee through some grocery stores.
35:10.52
vigorbranding
Wait.
35:14.74
vigorbranding
Wow.
35:19.48
Anand Gala
um We’re going to be redoing, redesigning, and relaunching our direct-to-consumer website and e-commerce pretty soon. We’ve got several new stores and new prototypes in the hopper.
35:30.40
Anand Gala
The same is true with Rusty. We’re opening, I think, it’s eight or nine locations this year. um And Muya, we just opened two of our ah very first drive-through locations, both company owned. We want to get the the ball rolling on drive-throughs. And so we’re excited to prove that model out. And so far, the customers love it.
35:48.57
vigorbranding
Yeah, well, you brought up a couple really, I think, important points. You did load up on a lot of these brands here very recently. And yeah you happened, I mean, no pun intended, but it seems like you covered every food group, like everything that’s important as far as coffee, pizza, burgers, taco, I mean, you know, boy, it’s, ah yeah, yeah, literally, yeah, you nailed it, you nailed it.
35:58.28
Anand Gala
Yeah. Our plate is full.
36:05.78
vigorbranding
So, I mean, it it does make a lot of sense to really kind of drive all that. And and the other thing you brought, which i I personally see a lot is, You know, with our company, you know, we we have about five different agencies in our in our portfolio. and And one being Quench is CPG food and beverage, which is very different than restaurants. They just happen to sell foods. We have another company called Vigor that just does restaurant expertise. But it’s amazing how many are doing the, we have this product, it’s people find it in the restaurant, it’s great marketing, they have it, they love it, like your coffee.
36:35.42
vigorbranding
And all of a sudden, it’s slotted over CPG.
36:35.64
Anand Gala
Mm hmm.
36:37.06
vigorbranding
And it’s like people, hey, I i love that coffee. It’s fresh. it’s ah And I walk into the store, and I can buy it. And it’s ah such a smart move. ah but You see it both ways. I’ve seen it from the CPG side going into restaurants, and the restaurant side going into CPG.
36:48.29
Anand Gala
Yeah.
36:49.56
vigorbranding
So I think that’s ah it’s a really, really smart move.
36:49.67
Anand Gala
Yeah, absolutely.
36:52.78
vigorbranding
Now, I have one last question. And you know it’s going to be hard for you, probably the hardest thing you have to answer all day, because you can’t you can’t say one of your restaurants.
36:54.72
Anand Gala
Yes, sir.
37:00.72
vigorbranding
If you had one last final meal, what would you eat, where, and
37:00.96
Anand Gala
All right.
37:05.55
vigorbranding
With who?
37:08.26
Anand Gala
Boy, that is a great question. ah First of all, with whom it’d be my family. Hands down, there’s nobody else who I wanna spend time with as often as possible than with my parents and my wife and my kids and my brother and his family.
37:26.81
Anand Gala
My family means everything to me. What would the meal be? It’s gotta be something that everybody loves. And so when I think about what does everybody love, it’s probably pizza.
37:36.68
vigorbranding
There
37:38.26
Anand Gala
everybody loves pizza.
37:39.72
vigorbranding
you go.
37:40.24
Anand Gala
And you can customize it every which way you want. Where would I go? My goodness. Or what would I have it? There’s a there’s a restaurant in Los Angeles, which ah I truly, truly enjoy.
37:56.39
Anand Gala
I can’t ever think that I had a bad meal there. And it’s an Italian restaurant. They happen to have amazing pizza. It’s called Osteria Mozza.
38:05.65
vigorbranding
Nice.
38:05.67
Anand Gala
And they have a a sister brand called Pizzeria Mozza. And the it’s just some of the best food I’ve ever had in my life. It’s the service. It’s the quality. It’s the flavors.
38:17.73
Anand Gala
It’s everything all combined.
38:20.04
vigorbranding
Fantastic.
38:20.05
Anand Gala
And I don’t even remember what I spent. I’m sure it was too much. But, oh man, it’s so memorable.
38:25.90
vigorbranding
Well, hey, back to your the concepts on your burger, right? I mean, if it’s a if it if the food hits the mark, you you you really don’t care what you spend. I mean, you know you know it’s it don’t be for those, but quality and and you know it’s it’s so, so important. And you were very smart and you’re a smart guy, you covered it. So if your if your family or anybody in your family watches this podcast, you know you answered the right, you had the right answer. with Only with my family. So that’s fantastic.
38:50.99
vigorbranding
and you’re You’re amazing. I love watching what you’ve been doing. it’s It’s a pleasure to talk to you and it’s great knowing you and I look forward to the next time I see you. it Thanks a lot.
39:00.65
Anand Gala
Absolutely. Look forward to it. I’ll see you soon. All right. Take care. bye
...more October 14, 2024Andy Gellert – President of Gellert Global Group Andy is president of Gellert Global Group. The company imports more than 5,500 unique food items from more than 60 countries and is one of the largest food importers in the world. Gellert Global Group is home to 12 companies, led by Atalanta, the largest privately-held food importer in the U.S.
Gellert Global is a third-generation family-run business. The Gellert Global Group comprises many of the leading North American food-importing companies and has been importing food products for over 100 years. The combined revenues of the Group exceed $1.7 billion.
The Gellert Global family includes Andy’s sister, brother and cousin. Andy’s father and uncle are also part of the company. Andy’s father, George, was recently inducted into the New Jersey business hall of fame.
Gellert Global’s goal is to be a part of every food and beverage experience.
Andy and his team use a variety of factors to determine which products and brands to partner with, including trends and the needs of customers.
QUOTES“Some of these family businesses and you hear about fighting and people not getting along. I think we’re successful because we keep growing and there’s enough things for everyone to do and for everyone to bring value.” (Andy)
“You want (joining the family business) to happen organically. It’s a fun business. There’s opportunities for (family) to join if they want. There’s no obligation to come in. We’d like them to come in, but we don’t want to make a rule that they have to come in.” (Andy)
“Network is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. Being a part of YPO (Young President’s Organization), I love leveraging my network. I like investing in early-stage CPG’s and helping and leading them to other opportunities.” (Andy)
“We don’t want to lose direction. We’re very big and we’re happy where we are but we’re not in a rush to get to two billion. We’re going to get there smart. If it means pairing down and doing SKU rationalization to be more profitable, all the better.” (Andy)
“It’s really all about efficiency. As you get bigger you can be more efficient, but you have to be diligent.” (Andy)
“We’re an importer of products so our products are expensive already. We’re always looking for ways to (save). You always have to turn over rocks to look for more opportunities.” (Andy)
“I love eating. I love food experiences. I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and saying ‘Just surprise me. Just give me what you do best.’” (Andy)
TRANSCRIPT00:00.45
Andy Gellert
Bye.
00:01.87
vigorbranding
Hey there, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m ah Michael Pavone, and I’m happy to really get a chance to talk to a good friend of mine. ah Today we have Andy Gellert here. He’s a good friend I’ve known for and respected for a long, long time. Andy’s the president of Gellert Global Group, one of the largest food importers in the world. ah They import more than 2,500 product lines from more than 60 countries. Andy, thank you so much for being here.
00:27.05
Andy Gellert
Mike, always a pleasure, always great seeing you, and nice seeing your smiling face, and I love hanging out with you. We’re always having a lot of fun together.
00:34.39
vigorbranding
Yeah, absolutely. You know, if they if they have music for this in the beginning, you know, I was going to, I was going to change up our, our forktails music and have a little.
00:41.11
Andy Gellert
Listen, I don’t like to brag about my my my my my my my my my beautiful voice. where You saw me on stage with Welcome Pepper a long time ago. I hung that up a long time ago.
00:52.98
Andy Gellert
I got straight into the food business, Mike. I can’t cant just think my life away, you know?
00:54.81
vigorbranding
Yeah. The little salt and pepper in the beginning of this thing i gets us off on everything and everything. The thing is, Andy, I have known you for a long time, but I love doing these interviews because I always learn more. so it’s like I might have seen you over the years at these shows and get to hang out and you know have a drink together, but you know when you’re digging a little deeper about the family business and about the food industry and and all of that, it’s just I’m always blown away. and your Your company and your family, which is the company, is absolutely amazing.
01:21.57
vigorbranding
So tell us a little bit about Gellert Global Group and know what they do.
01:24.57
Andy Gellert
but i mean like Next year we’ll celebrate our 80th birthday and we’re very excited. and As I said, you know I’m third generation and I live i live food. It’s a passion of mine. I love all aspects of the food industry. and you know like My grandfather started this in 1945.
01:46.38
Andy Gellert
importing meats from Eastern Europe and seafood. We’ve grown and got other lines of businesses in. We’re selling food service, retail, manufacturing, cruise line.
01:57.56
Andy Gellert
We’re now involved in, you know thanks to YPO, I’m i’m involved in the franchise business. By the end of the year, we’ll have 55 guys. Thanks to our good friend Dan Rowe.
02:05.09
vigorbranding
Wow. Yeah.
02:07.17
Andy Gellert
We’re introducing their first one. And you know we invest in food businesses and it’s just, ah We’re all about food. I tell everyone I hit my belly, it’s this is R and&D.
02:17.29
Andy Gellert
This is R and&D. I mean,
02:20.68
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. Now, you know, I know family owned, super important. I know you treat everyone like family because I’ve seen you around ah customers, employees, the whole thing, but your dad, he is an older gentleman, but still very much involved in the business. Is that correct?
02:35.09
Andy Gellert
86. I went to his house to play tennis at 6 o’clock in the morning today. We play with people from our company. He loves it like he’s, my mom goes away for the summer.
02:45.63
Andy Gellert
He’s having, ah lot this summer is incredible. He’s 86. Every, twice a week, he has people from the company come over and have dinner and just different groups of people.
02:52.74
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
02:53.86
Andy Gellert
And and he loves what he does. It’s it’s it’s really it’s really an honor to to to work with him and and watch him. he loves He loves his suppliers.
03:04.49
Andy Gellert
We love our bankers. We love our employees. It’s all about, you know, yeah he’s all, he’s all about people. And it’s really great.
03:11.81
vigorbranding
Yeah.
03:12.97
Andy Gellert
I said this summer at the fancy food show, he was honored with a lifetime achievement award. And it’s such a good honor to see him up there and enjoying all the success of the role we’ve done together.
03:22.47
vigorbranding
Well, it’s so well deserved. He deserved that honor. The company’s amazing. But you should give him a break. I mean, I think you you put sneakers on him.
03:28.24
Andy Gellert
He loves,
03:28.57
vigorbranding
i had He had sneakers on in the booth to run around. I mean, you know.
03:32.00
Andy Gellert
you know, listen, like I said, he works out before we play tennis in the morning and He’s all about the next activity and what we’re doing next. So, you know.
03:39.84
vigorbranding
That’s it’s fantastic. how many So how many members of the family are currently working in the company?
03:45.07
Andy Gellert
So today we have my sister, my brother, and my cousin in my generation. And my cousin who, my other cousin who runs the Five Guide business. And then I have my father and my uncle.
03:56.25
Andy Gellert
So there’s, you know, three, six of us, you know.
03:58.55
vigorbranding
that’s great
03:59.47
Andy Gellert
And we’re getting ready for the third generation.
03:59.41
vigorbranding
and look
04:01.81
Andy Gellert
Hopefully, you know, there are nine kids in the next generation. Hopefully one of them or two of them will come in and we’re we’re excited. It’s all about, you know, we love what we do and there’s a lot to do.
04:12.31
Andy Gellert
And, you know, some of these family businesses, you know, the family, you hear about them and they’re fighting and they’re not getting a along.
04:18.50
vigorbranding
That’s
04:19.38
Andy Gellert
I think we’re being successful because we keep growing and there’s enough things that everyone can do and everyone brings value that no one’s stepping each other’s toes.
04:25.06
vigorbranding
great.
04:27.57
Andy Gellert
We’re all different, we but we appreciate each other’s opinion and listening to each other. We argue, but, you know, we all, we we get her off our chest and we move forward. You know?
04:36.10
vigorbranding
Would you go out and play tennis, right, and solve it over the own tennis court?
04:37.88
Andy Gellert
Exactly. We stopped it on the court. We stopped it on the court.
04:40.98
vigorbranding
So you the kids, are are they are they interested? are they old not I don’t know how old they are. Are they old enough to be getting close?
04:47.10
Andy Gellert
So I think um my daughter my daughter is a social worker therapist. I don’t think she’s going to come in, you know. But my, you know, my other two ah potentially will come in.
04:57.29
Andy Gellert
one One probably more likely than the other.
04:57.44
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
04:59.68
Andy Gellert
Other is in the real estate industry. And then my sister’s kids potentially were there and my brother’s kids were a little bit younger. So I definitely think at least three or four will come in for the next generation. But in the meantime, we keep growing and getting bigger and and looking at opportunities and we have fun. Why why are we doing it?
05:17.12
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Well, so in in your situation, I mean, we’re we’re of a generation, you and I, I’ll say that, like, did you, did you have a choice or did you always know that this is what I’m going to do or I want to do it? Or did you, did dad put a little pressure on you and say, Hey, look, you know, you got to do your thing.
05:32.22
Andy Gellert
I did everything wrong in the family business. youre They all that go out and get the outside experience. And I came right in.
05:38.08
vigorbranding
yeahh Yeah.
05:38.43
Andy Gellert
And it was difficult. I’m not going to say it was a piece of cake. And my brother was a lot.
05:41.30
vigorbranding
Yeah.
05:44.06
Andy Gellert
you know He went to business school. He went to law school. He worked in private banking. And then he came in. So it it made a lot of sense. And my sister, the same thing. yeah I did everything wrong but it’s good to know, it’s good to do it because then you know you’re not going to repeat it.
05:57.78
Andy Gellert
So you know my son who who definitely looks forward to maybe joining one day says he want he wants to spend three or four years you know the outside and coming in.
05:58.16
vigorbranding
Yeah.
06:05.42
vigorbranding
yeah
06:08.26
Andy Gellert
He says he doesn’t like his boss I’m like that’s good get used to it. you Get used to it better than me you know.
06:12.52
vigorbranding
Get used to it, right?
06:17.21
vigorbranding
Well, you know, that’s I had the same rule with my girls. I mean, I don’t know that they’ll ever want to come into it. Why would anyone would go to an advertising agency or come into a marketing firm? But if they would, I said they had to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion.
06:28.93
vigorbranding
And thankfully, they’ve both been doing that.
06:29.31
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
06:31.08
vigorbranding
In fact, they’ve been doing it for a while now, so maybe they’re not interested. So ah they may have dodged the bullet or maybe I have. But I just think our generation was one of those things where, you know, yeah, go do what you want to do, but you’re coming into the company kind of thing, you know.
06:43.02
vigorbranding
I started my own business, I didn’t go to my dad’s company but I mean it was one of those things where I just think a lot of folks, it was just I guess different. ah Now I think with, I’ll say with my daughters and probably your kids like go out and do your thing and if you’re interested talk to me, don’t you know, don’t don’t not talk to me about it but you know, no pressure, that kind of thing.
07:00.05
vigorbranding
You know, it’s just a little different.
07:01.20
Andy Gellert
Yeah you want it to happen organically and you know listen he he comes around a lot of the meals and the family all gets together and a lot of time is talking about work so he’s interested and you know he spends weekends he came to the fancy food show they all came I can see what’s going on and it’s it’s a fun business so I think there’s opportunities for them in the future if they want but there’s no pressure we’re growing we we have a lot of we’ve done a great job of hiring a lot of outside ah you know ah
07:03.16
vigorbranding
Yeah.
07:19.45
vigorbranding
Yeah.
07:30.22
Andy Gellert
ah you know professionals to help us run the business and they don’t have to come. re We’re doing well and you know they’re all going to enjoy the from the fruitfuls of the business as as it as it gets bigger but there’s no obligation for them to come in. We like them to come in but we don’t want to make a rule if they have to come in.
07:48.07
vigorbranding
Yeah, but on that note, and we’ll jump in more about the business, but on the family side, you mentioned earlier that we’re both in YPO. And we both know that a lot of YPO businesses are family owned businesses. And there’s there are challenges, right, with being family owned and led. I mean, you know, what, you know, can you talk a little bit about that?
08:05.93
Andy Gellert
Listen, it’s hard, but thank God for YPO. To me, it’s one of the best opportunities of my life. I really enjoyed all the people like yourself and getting involved in the Food Network and my New Jersey Forum.
08:23.49
Andy Gellert
These guys are my board of directors and my own personal board of directors.
08:26.70
vigorbranding
you
08:28.15
Andy Gellert
They really helped me grow. where you know where I was i was being stubborn, they told me to relax, where I was not being aggressive enough, they pushed me. And it’s just been a great environment for me to to prosper as a leader because of YPL.
08:43.66
vigorbranding
That’s great. When I know your food and beverage form or that group and boy, you know, I can’t believe you learned anything from them. So ah you guys have a group of, you guys have ah ah a group of, uh, of, uh, cherished individuals, yeah characters.
08:49.65
Andy Gellert
Thank you.
08:56.99
Andy Gellert
We’ve got a great group and we’ve been together for over, you know, some of us back almost 16, 18 years and it’s great.
08:58.20
vigorbranding
Yes, you do.
09:03.87
Andy Gellert
I love seeing the guys and we don we try not to miss meetings and and we’re supportive of each other.
09:06.99
vigorbranding
Yeah, it’s cool. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of them one here, so it’s ah it’s been great. They’re they’re they’re like the characters, that’s for sure. So yeah and you mentioned your father got an award at Fancy Food. I was there at Fancy Food this year, and what it’s a great honor. He’s also a member of the New Jersey Business Hall of Fame.
09:24.61
Andy Gellert
Yeah, please listen, though we it’s not easy. I think we’re the 11th largest privately held business in New Jersey. We’re very proud of that. and we you know it’s We work hard and he deserves to be honored for what what what he’s accomplished.
09:39.11
vigorbranding
Yeah. i mean so As I was saying earlier, you know I get to meet folks and we get to see you know different folks at different shows. and i had i i mean I knew you ran a great, important company. I had no idea the size and scale. so you know on Your vision is to be a part of every food experience. and you know Well, I will say that sounds like a really you know audacious goal, right? But with your company, you kind of are. i mean you have you have you have You have a franchise, you have you import your frozen food, you have CPG, you have a private, I mean, it’s it’s incredible.
10:13.44
vigorbranding
Can you talk a little bit about the breadth and the different companies within your organization?
10:15.87
Andy Gellert
I mean, it’s exciting and I think we’ve grown over the years through acquisitions. I think the last 18 months we made three acquisitions. We’re probably closing on one the next month and have two on the table that we’re looking at. So growth is, you know, we’re always looking at mergers and acquisitions. And we like to say, listen, private equity, if you’re a family business, you want to stay apart, you know, how enjoy the ride, take some money off the table and join our family instead of private equity where they
10:44.81
vigorbranding
Yeah.
10:45.10
Andy Gellert
change your business up and listen if you want to cash out you can always cash out but if you want to enjoy the ride a little bit longer and take some money off the table we’ve been very successful about people wanting to join a family business and ours is that we’re like a large very large family business so we get to a lot of opportunities to look at business deals.
11:05.69
vigorbranding
Yeah, and you know, ah your your ah passion for the business and your your love of people, it sort of precedes you. Like I’ve always seen that about you, your energy and i it’s not, it’s not, it’s not artificial.
11:18.40
vigorbranding
You do that. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen you at the booth when I’m standing walking the shows and stuff. And it’s, ah it’s really kind of ah really cool. And I’m sure that’s a compliment to your father and and I’m sure your whole family’s like that. But you do treat everybody like family.
11:29.62
vigorbranding
And I think that’s ah admirable.
11:30.12
Andy Gellert
but You know, network is always um is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. And being part of YPO, I love leveraging my network and not for myself, but helping people.
11:39.05
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah.
11:41.20
Andy Gellert
I like investing in early stage CPGs and helping these young people and watching their passion and, you know, leading them to other opportunities. I love putting two people together and let let them prosper.
11:53.58
Andy Gellert
It’s it’s really a ah pleasure of mine, you know, watching that happen.
11:58.17
vigorbranding
Yeah, well, and that’s, that leads to success, right?
12:00.84
Andy Gellert
It’s really pure joy.
12:00.82
vigorbranding
You know, you help people out.
12:01.68
Andy Gellert
at You’re 100%.
12:01.74
vigorbranding
Yeah, absolutely. So, and I will say, ah you know, I’ve been informed with you and you were a treasure and valuables all get out. And the amount of people you know, and and the connections you have are second to none.
12:14.02
Andy Gellert
Well,
12:14.00
vigorbranding
And you know,
12:14.46
Andy Gellert
we do have a good friend in LA who like to compare.
12:16.32
vigorbranding
okay
12:17.18
Andy Gellert
My good friend, our good friend Clara, who probably knows one more than I do.
12:20.44
vigorbranding
yeah hey
12:22.30
Andy Gellert
job
12:23.31
vigorbranding
heard I would always keep score when we’d be talking, like who knew who or who knew the other person better or whatever else, but I will say, yeah I’m excited for you to be on here because I know my podcast now will be, I’ll rival the the football games, you know the upcoming football games for for for viewership because because of you.
12:34.55
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
12:38.34
vigorbranding
So I just, I appreciate that. So, but but back when companies, though you have frozen, you have CPG. can you Can you talk a little bit about the different types of of ah products?
12:46.45
Andy Gellert
Yeah, so we’re in the frozen fruits, frozen vegetables. You know, we just actually, a few years ago, we invested in a company called Cafe Spice. I made him join YPO and they make ethnic meals. um I just, you know, we did ah the Bloomberg of Food, the Food Institute,
13:04.37
Andy Gellert
We made a minority investment in there.
13:04.43
vigorbranding
Yep.
13:06.90
Andy Gellert
were you know We do a lot of different retail, private label, manufacturing. We’re just trying to leverage all the everything on a plate. look at you know we’re We’re looking at an olive business, a rice business. There’s so many opportunities out there. We just want to add on to our great team here. We’ve got great people.
13:27.64
Andy Gellert
ah We have great sales people, great buyers, and you know, finance. And we just, we can do some more. So we’re looking for more opportunities.
13:33.69
vigorbranding
Mm hmm. That’s great. Do you need an ad agency? I’m just kidding.
13:37.95
Andy Gellert
We’ve said, a lot of us not our own brand. We do have some brands that we, that are ours.
13:43.18
vigorbranding
Yeah.
13:43.84
Andy Gellert
And we bought, we bought two brands from, from UNFI, Mountain Vicos that was owned by UNFI and Sonoma Cheese.
13:48.53
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
13:52.16
Andy Gellert
So we do, we do work on our brand. So we, you know, we and um we have a marketing department.
13:54.60
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
13:56.46
Andy Gellert
We got a, get you more engaged, Micah.
13:58.46
vigorbranding
There you go.
13:58.78
Andy Gellert
I’ll get to that.
13:59.35
vigorbranding
Hey, I’m always here for that. That’s awesome.
14:01.26
Andy Gellert
For even your Philly cheesesteak, we’ll have a meeting, you know, that’s all I need.
14:03.59
vigorbranding
You got it. Hey, that’s done. No no no problem there. So when you’re when you’re building and you’re always looking for these new new products or companies, ah yeah what when you want to import them, what what factors are you looking at?
14:15.50
vigorbranding
like I mean, obviously you you go to need a lot of things, there but you’re in so many different places. What what is it that you’re you’re kind of like, what’s on your checklist at the top of the checklist?
14:23.65
Andy Gellert
So we want to look at something that makes sense. so if you know We love the the old math, one plus one equals four. So we want to find efficiencies. Maybe they’re doing the same thing we are, but they have a big they have a big finance team that we don’t really need going forward.
14:38.14
Andy Gellert
Or maybe they’re in one segment of the business where we’re not in.
14:42.04
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
14:42.16
Andy Gellert
So we try to really identify where we can do the math where one plus one equals four and five.
14:47.91
vigorbranding
Right.
14:48.70
Andy Gellert
you know we don’t want to doesn’t that A copycat doesn’t really help sometimes, but if they have a you know a big ah big staff on the some redundancy there, then it could make sense.
14:54.08
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
14:58.10
Andy Gellert
Otherwise, it could be a whole new field that we can add to our already you know deep bench of of products that we do. So we don’t have a playlist of what we’re looking for. We just look at different opportunities and see if they make sense.
15:11.27
Andy Gellert
i mean like Just like building a network, we love looking at decks and looking at opportunities or
15:16.32
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
15:16.75
Andy Gellert
Why are companies for sale? Why aren’t they aren’t? And a lot of times, i likeck listen, this is going to go to private equity. We’re not going to need a bit because we know we’ll be blown out of the water.
15:25.59
vigorbranding
right Yeah. Yeah. that makes That makes a lot of sense. So, I mean, obviously, and you know, I kind of had this philosophy as well in the business. It’s like, you’re opportunistic. You know, you’re not saying I’m looking for this exact thing.
15:36.91
vigorbranding
It has to be this big, that, you know, that that category doing that thing. It’s sort of like, Oh, here’s an opportunity. Hmm. This fits or no, it doesn’t fit. Or, Hey, this can enhance that.
15:43.96
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
15:44.95
vigorbranding
And if we do this, maybe we can go here. And so I’ve always looked at that. It’s kind of fun to do it that way. I kind of always.
15:50.32
Andy Gellert
It’s not a good idea. You’re looking under the rug and see what’s there and putting that puzzle together because like I said, a big company that’s competitive in mind, it’s going to go for a lot more for private equity.
15:51.60
vigorbranding
Yeah.
15:54.65
vigorbranding
Yeah.
16:03.40
Andy Gellert
I don’t even want to play in there. I don’t have private equity money where I could afford to strike out.
16:05.38
vigorbranding
Right.
16:10.74
Andy Gellert
I want to make sure these are successful acquisitions and they fit in them all.
16:15.96
vigorbranding
Yeah, and you make a really good point because we’ve seen, you know, I’ll say, and um I know you’ve seen for sure, but in my business with CPG and in the restaurant side, private equity will come in and they, I’m not gonna say they don’t care if they fail, but they they know it’s a numbers game.
16:31.27
vigorbranding
They know that all aren’t gonna pan out. So they make these investments and then they they do their, they they they they apply their playbook and then, you know, if it’s like baseball. if they They hit three out of, ah if they hit three out of 10, they feel like they’ve done something and and you probably have financially, but
16:40.88
Andy Gellert
yeah
16:44.73
vigorbranding
The other seven are just left to the wayside.
16:46.68
Andy Gellert
Exactly. And and they’ve, you know, they can afford to do that. We really don’t want to do that.
16:49.73
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah.
16:51.36
Andy Gellert
And we don’t want to, we don’t want to lose direction.
16:51.34
vigorbranding
No.
16:53.42
Andy Gellert
I mean, listen, and we like, you know, we’re very big and we’re happy wherever you are, but we’re not in a goal to rush to get to 2 billion.
17:00.89
vigorbranding
Right.
17:01.14
Andy Gellert
Wouldn’t get there smart. And if it means paring down and skew rationalization to be more profitable, all the better.
17:06.88
vigorbranding
Mm hmm. Do you find yourself doing that a lot? Do you do you have to go in there and and do skew rationalization or?
17:12.64
Andy Gellert
all the time, all the time, we really, you know, skew rash, customer rationalization, and we’ll bundle a bunch of customers and give them to a bigger customer just to make sure our warehouse is more efficient.
17:13.21
vigorbranding
Yeah.
17:16.68
vigorbranding
Yeah.
17:21.11
vigorbranding
Yeah.
17:23.25
Andy Gellert
It’s really all about efficiency. I mean, as you get bigger, you could be more efficient.
17:24.87
vigorbranding
Yeah.
17:27.21
Andy Gellert
And, but you have to be diligent and skew rationalization, customer rationalization, people rationalization, you know, rationalization as well.
17:32.84
vigorbranding
Yep.
17:35.97
Andy Gellert
You know, it’s important.
17:37.23
vigorbranding
Yeah. And that’s that’s such ah’ such an interesting point because I think, you know, and I’ll say i’ll say in my own experience, you know, i in our holding company, we have several different marketing companies and I’m always afraid to let customers go.
17:48.21
vigorbranding
Like, oh, though no, that we can do it for them. Sometimes it’s not good business, right? And sometimes you have to make those tough decisions and, you know, it’s it’s hard to let employees go, but it’s it’s hard for you to let, or I’ll say for me, to let a piece of business go, a paying customer.
17:52.67
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
18:00.83
Andy Gellert
Yeah, ah it’s, you know, you don’t like the same thing. But, but you got to look at it like, you know, you still have another 300 other employees out there that you want to do for the better the of the group.
18:07.78
vigorbranding
Right.
18:10.14
vigorbranding
Right.
18:10.45
Andy Gellert
So it makes sense to let someone go or let a customer go in order to be more efficient for everyone else.
18:10.42
vigorbranding
That’s right.
18:17.54
Andy Gellert
So it’s hard.
18:17.83
vigorbranding
yeah
18:19.55
Andy Gellert
And initially, it’s hard. But over time, you realize It’s a better decision and to be you know to be more efficient and just try.
18:27.95
vigorbranding
Absolutely. So I mean, one of the things that, you you know, we have the two agencies, we have quench, we have, ah which is CPG food and beverage, we have a vart of Vigor, which is ah ah restaurant marketing. and you you You cover them all because you’re in franchise with five guys, you’re in, you know, in the CPG world. um You know, it’s it’s sort of like, it’s hard to keep track of everything. How do you manage it all? I mean, I know you have different folks, but you’re sitting up there, are you just pulling up a different P and&L for each of these business units every two days? or
18:56.16
Andy Gellert
I mean, we’re on ah basically a lot of these Zoom calls and just listening in and we just had one a few minutes ago, you know, we do a lot of nut and dry fruit business and we’re working on getting bigger in the bakery in the in the supermarket.
19:09.09
Andy Gellert
So how could we be, you know, and and we sat down today and we talked about all of our items and they all fit in the bakery. bill We’re selling very little of the bakery. So it’s an untapped market and it gets everyone excited.
19:21.02
Andy Gellert
And we sit down and f throw things at the wall and see what sticks.
19:24.19
vigorbranding
That’s great.
19:24.58
Andy Gellert
And we’re kind of fun. like we just said hey You know, we do this item, this will be good for, and I just, I love sitting in these meetings and just, you know, throwing out ideas.
19:32.21
vigorbranding
That’s great. That’s great. Very cool. Well, I know at Quench, you know, the CPG side, we would do to learn, to understand the industry. You know, we started the agency in food and beverage.
19:43.65
vigorbranding
It’s like, you can’t just say you do advertising and marketing food and beverage. You have to have an expertise. We’re going to hire people from the CPG world. But then what we did was we created a food and beverage trench to learn what was going on.
19:54.01
vigorbranding
Right. And the first year we’ve done them for 15 years. You know, you’ve probably seen me speak on them at different events.
20:00.02
Andy Gellert
Yeah, are you do a great job. I love hearing your updates on the YPO conferences and you really got a pulse of what’s going on in the industry.
20:07.49
vigorbranding
Yeah. would So we we would do that. just We did it actually just for our own edification, just to learn. And then when we did it, we said, well, let’s let’s just give these away. So we do them every year. We give them away, fast companies written about them and all that. Do you use trends ah for your business to for like that next big thing?
20:21.92
vigorbranding
Or is it more of truly just looking at the pieces and moving things around on the board?
20:26.18
Andy Gellert
We look at trends, we look at pieces, you know, we lot of our a lot of our suppli customers say, we like this item, can you go out and find it for us? And we got people or, you know, and in some cases we do a lot of business, some of our our customers say, here’s an item, you know here’s the supplier, you know, you’re you’re a great importer, we want you to import it for us. So it just, because we’re a trusted supplier, we’re good at logistics, they actually given us business to to handle.
20:53.89
Andy Gellert
And it’s it’s exciting. And then we take that business and look at other opportunities as well.
20:59.70
vigorbranding
How is there anything are you doing anything in the beverage side is it mostly all just food?
21:01.22
Andy Gellert
e
21:04.27
Andy Gellert
No, I mean, we the beverage side we have, so we, Cipriani, you know, the so we we handle all their CPG items.
21:09.46
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm Okay Mm-hmm
21:13.80
Andy Gellert
So they make a the bulini mix, non-alcoholic bulini. So we’re slowly getting it. That’s our beverage and, you know, we’ll see where that takes us. but That’s new space for us.
21:24.96
Andy Gellert
And we’re doing it on the retail side. Now we’re looking to try to listen to all the beverage distributors we don’t really touch on. So we’re getting a ah handle on that business as well.
21:31.95
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
21:34.96
Andy Gellert
So that’s the only part of beverage. know I’m an investor in a few CPG, like Ollie Pop and Lemon Perfect, a few others.
21:40.57
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
21:43.06
Andy Gellert
But but not I think that’s a tough space. But I think we’re we’re getting our feet wet with this Trippiani land.
21:48.39
vigorbranding
See, that’s interesting.
21:48.67
Andy Gellert
We’re very excited.
21:50.05
vigorbranding
You’re 11 perfect. We just took over their space in Atlanta. They’re headquartered in Atlanta, yeah.
21:53.76
Andy Gellert
Oh,
21:54.76
vigorbranding
And we just took over their space. They went ah they went all virtual, so yeah.
21:58.07
Andy Gellert
yeah. Yani went to Cornell with me.
22:00.32
vigorbranding
Yeah. Oh, is that right?
22:00.83
Andy Gellert
Yeah, yeah he’s a you should get him on your podcast.
22:03.45
vigorbranding
Well, I’ve met him, he’s a great guy.
22:05.26
Andy Gellert
I he’s Mr. Energy. It was his birthday this week.
22:06.69
vigorbranding
Oh my gosh.
22:07.72
Andy Gellert
So I just I love that guy.
22:08.28
vigorbranding
Is that right? I will reach out to him. Yeah, i we you you can you can appreciate this, Andy, you know me pretty well.
22:11.20
Andy Gellert
He
22:15.37
vigorbranding
So i’m goingnna I was gonna sublease his his office, right? So you know it’s a real estate deal. I’m gonna sublease it, we’re gonna move from one ah ah one office to this other office. So I talked to him and he was like, he was going 180 miles an hour and it was great and all that.
22:29.28
vigorbranding
And I was like, I really like this guy. And I’m like,
22:31.92
Andy Gellert
He’s an infectious personality.
22:32.86
vigorbranding
Yeah.
22:33.53
Andy Gellert
you
22:33.75
vigorbranding
And I’m like, you know, johnny i said hey if you want, I mean, I’ll, I’ll do the deal here with you, but if you want to stay, like, you know, I mean your energy and what you’re, you’re in the beverage, that’s what we do.
22:44.21
vigorbranding
I mean, you can stay, you know, like if you have meetings here and like your, if your people come in, like it’s a big enough space for all of us, I’m not asking for anything on the other side.
22:46.07
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
22:51.86
vigorbranding
ah You can stay. I mean, I just i thought energy, you know, creates more energy. So, and we talked about that, but then he was like, you know, isn’t that crazy?
22:57.60
Andy Gellert
That’s so funny to know that guy. I met him at Expo West. And he had a small little table.
23:03.20
vigorbranding
Yep.
23:03.40
Andy Gellert
And I’m like, wow, this guy’s this guy has a firecracker.
23:07.14
vigorbranding
Yeah.
23:07.31
Andy Gellert
And I’m like, um’m I’m supporting you.
23:09.42
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
23:09.51
Andy Gellert
And it’s a great story.
23:11.92
vigorbranding
That’s very cool. That’s the end goes to show you know everybody that’s amazing to me amazing. That’s funny.
23:17.14
Andy Gellert
Take that, Clara.
23:21.03
vigorbranding
I’ll make sure we tell her that.
23:22.87
Andy Gellert
but
23:22.95
vigorbranding
So, all right, now I’m gonna bring up something, I guess negative or whatever, but inflation. Inflation is, ah you know, is it affects every industry, especially food.
23:28.56
Andy Gellert
It’s tough. its you know
23:30.55
vigorbranding
Yeah. how How much of an impact has that had on you guys?
23:32.99
Andy Gellert
That’s a very important product.
23:33.03
vigorbranding
and
23:34.29
Andy Gellert
So our product are expensive already. And so it’s tough. We have to find you know so you know find other opportunities. That’s why we invested in this cafe spice that makes meals.
23:44.93
Andy Gellert
So maybe we make things more efficient for more of our customers and look at other opportunities. Maybe so source something that’s coming from Europe, getting it from South America. And and we’re always looking for ways to skin.
23:59.19
Andy Gellert
We started importing French fries from Belgium. to the East Coast because it’s it’s more effective and looking at opportunities like that. and Now we’re looking at opportunities in India. You always have to turn over rocks, look for more opportunities. It’s scary.
24:14.30
Andy Gellert
and it’s it’s you know the It’s all the news, the the price inflation. So we’re always looking for newer opportunities to try to make things better for our customers.
24:25.43
vigorbranding
And being a global you know accessing globally with conflict and things like that, I mean obviously that’s affecting everything. i mean are you having are you ah is there um Is there ever a chance where one area of the business is sort of shut down or hey we can’t get this from there?
24:40.46
Andy Gellert
Yeah, things happen all the time. I mean, you know, when the Ukraine war first started, you know, it was it was a big factor because happened old Europe was tough.
24:42.39
vigorbranding
It’s crazy.
24:51.28
Andy Gellert
And then when there was a ah big problem of freight from the from from Asia, supply chain issues from COVID. I mean, we’ve we’ve seen them all, Mike.
25:00.35
vigorbranding
crazy
25:01.71
Andy Gellert
And now ah there’s an impending dock strike that’s going to come. So that’s going to affect from Maine all the way to Texas.
25:07.59
vigorbranding
hear about that?
25:09.05
Andy Gellert
and
25:09.51
vigorbranding
Yeah.
25:09.86
Andy Gellert
That’s really making us very nervous and our customers nervous.
25:11.55
vigorbranding
Oh yeah.
25:12.86
Andy Gellert
So, but we, you know, we do the best we can and we keep fighting every day, you know, get up, get up and play some tennis, you know.
25:13.80
vigorbranding
Wow.
25:18.34
vigorbranding
Yes, I was gonna say, you get played tennis and smile and have a positive attitude and that’s the secret sauce.
25:23.15
Andy Gellert
You just got to, you know.
25:25.04
vigorbranding
You know, and I do love because every time I’m talking, I think, I think you always say, yeah, I played tennis with my dad this morning and you know, family businesses, there’s so many family businesses that end up like not talking to each other and you hear all the the generational strife or the the falling apart.
25:37.72
vigorbranding
The fact that you you still hang with your dad, my dad was my best friend. So that’s just so near and dear to me. It’s incredible. I think that’s so awesome.
25:43.18
Andy Gellert
Well, today is a little, today is a little flat with him. I showed up at his house at 10 to 6, pouring rain, and the the match was canceled. So I had to wake up for nothing, and I’m a little annoyed.
25:50.67
vigorbranding
ah Oh boy.
25:53.10
Andy Gellert
But that doesn’t matter at all.
25:55.76
vigorbranding
I hope you don’t ever let him win.
25:57.56
Andy Gellert
Well, i I’m his partner. He doesn’t move very well, and people, no one was allowed to drop shot him, you know?
25:59.16
vigorbranding
Okay.
26:04.11
Andy Gellert
get Everyone starts booing, whoever dropped off him.
26:06.88
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
26:07.02
Andy Gellert
But it was an accident. They’re like, no, you know? He’s got a bunch of rules, you know?
26:11.16
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. It’s his own tennis game, right? It’s his own.
26:13.99
Andy Gellert
theel game is his ze tennis game
26:16.17
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. So, if I if i may ask, and I know if there’s something you can’t say, that’s fine, but what’s what’s next for Gellert Global? I mean, what is anything new on the horizon, anything exciting you could talk about?
26:23.54
Andy Gellert
i We’re looking at more opportunities. you know we will be like We have such a great team. We have such great suppliers, such great employees, such great customers. We just want to keep doing what we’re doing and look for more opportunities. And if it makes sense to to make an acquisition, we’re going to do it.
26:40.44
Andy Gellert
and uh, it’s, it’s fun. You know, I mean, you know, just look at my cousin and the five guys, we were like 12, five guys. Now this year, by the end of the year, we’ll have a hundred. I mean, it’s just, uh, opportunistic and good people and growth to move forward.
26:50.43
vigorbranding
That’s awesome.
26:57.42
vigorbranding
Yeah. And, and Dan Rowe, as you mentioned, he’s a king of a guy and he, he was actually on the podcast and he, he’s, he’s fantastic.
27:00.10
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
27:03.17
vigorbranding
So that’s good company right there.
27:05.70
Andy Gellert
Yeah. Yeah. We were at a YPL event and he’s like, and we’ we’re looking My cousin at the time had a bunch of cinnabons and we’re looking for our second concept and we’re at a YPO in DC.
27:11.89
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
27:15.43
Andy Gellert
He’s like, Andy, come try this concept. And I took a bite of the five guy burger. I’m like, this is like a, like the, when you taste a cinnabon for the first time, it’s wow factor.
27:23.93
vigorbranding
Right. Yeah.
27:25.78
Andy Gellert
I called my cousin and the next thing we know, we you know we’re down there signing the deal. So it was, it’s been a great journey.
27:30.70
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Yeah. Fantastic. Very cool. All right. So now I asked this question. I have one last question, right? And this probably, well, I don’t know if it’ll be easy for you, but it’s not like you have to say, you can’t say five guys.
27:41.96
vigorbranding
So I have to fill it out there. So, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why, and I’m going to say this too.
27:48.70
Andy Gellert
Like, that’s the hardest thing because I love.
27:48.90
vigorbranding
And and and who with, I want to know who with.
27:52.53
Andy Gellert
That’s like the hardest question anyone can ever ask me. I love like, it’s like, we I think I told you was before we started out that you was open with my son and my wife and there’s so much food options.
28:00.19
vigorbranding
Yeah.
28:04.26
Andy Gellert
I had a headache. I couldn’t find what to get. Would I get to the Korean bowl or the palette for the steak sandwich? or or the fancy chicken with truffles, the dumplings.
28:15.10
Andy Gellert
you know i’m like I almost get a headache, I can’t even decide.
28:15.19
vigorbranding
yeah
28:19.04
Andy Gellert
so back It’s impossible. I just i love eating, I love food experiences, I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and say, just surprise me.
28:29.38
Andy Gellert
only even Just give me what you you you do best and let me try it.
28:29.31
vigorbranding
Yeah.
28:33.30
Andy Gellert
and and you know it’s really i can’t i There’s not one meal that I have to have. i
28:39.23
vigorbranding
Yeah.
28:40.25
Andy Gellert
I love a good sandwich. I love a good burger. I got a good steak. I like Italian, French, Spanish food, everything.
28:45.72
vigorbranding
Yep. ah You know, it’s funny. i I’m the same way. I’m lucky. I can eat anything. Like I don’t get nothing. I don’t have any allergies. I don’t get sicker. But you know, if I have a go to at a certain thing at a certain place, i will I’ll have a go at my go to.
28:56.26
vigorbranding
But nine out of 10 times when I go to a restaurant, like whatever the chef wants to make, because I figured he’s gonna put his heart and soul on it.
28:56.44
Andy Gellert
e
29:00.90
Andy Gellert
Yeah.
29:02.21
vigorbranding
Right. If it’s, if I’m asking him his opinion.
29:02.59
Andy Gellert
but i agree yeah if if if If they put it on the menu and then they’re behind it, I would take their recognition and set something I really want.
29:05.89
vigorbranding
Yeah.
29:09.81
Andy Gellert
so My father, yeah.
29:10.21
vigorbranding
Right. That’s right. That’s right. You nailed it. And I love the fact that you mentioned the U.S. Open and there was somebody there at the U.S. Open that had better seats than you, which was your. Of course, yeah.
29:21.87
vigorbranding
Andy, you know, I love being with you. I love talking to you and I appreciate your time. ah Just thank you so much for being on Fork Tales.
29:28.25
Andy Gellert
ah mike First of all, congratulations to you and the organization you built and you’ve always been You’re always smiling, too. i mean actually That’s why we like each other so much.
29:36.16
vigorbranding
Yeah.
29:36.89
Andy Gellert
We’re always smiling. Have a good time. And your trends are amazing. And I really enjoyed seeing you and doing this with yourself.
29:43.81
vigorbranding
fantastic well thank you so much
29:45.78
Andy Gellert
All right?
29:46.39
vigorbranding
take care
29:46.78
Andy Gellert
Take care. Bye.
29:47.78
vigorbranding
right
30:07.41
vigorbranding
Fantastic.
30:11.01
vigorbranding
Well, thank you so much. Take care.
...more September 30, 2024Ep 88: Shannon O’Shields / VP of Marketing for Rubix Foods and Gen Z whisperer Shannon is VP of Marketing for Rubix Foods. Rubix bills itself as “a premier culinary and food science-focused provider of flavor and functional ingredients, offering up insight-driven concepts and breakthrough food solutions for industry leading restaurants, retailers and manufacturers in the United States.”
Rubix works with about 70% of the top QSR and FSR chains with a focus on sauces, glazes and spreads. Rubix has a full R&D team that works on new flavors and processes to help with shelf life and other factors.
Consumers today demand specific flavors from specific parts of the world.
The quick-service restaurant (QSR) industry faces unique challenges in product development. Scaling products to meet operational demands, managing supply chains, and maintaining cost-effectiveness are all critical.
Products must also maintain consistent taste, shelf stability, and not require refrigeration, adding to the complexity. This differs from fine dining, where chefs can source fresh ingredients from farmers’ markets and prepare them on-site. The technicalities involved in QSR make the development process much more intricate and demanding compared to traditional restaurant models.
Rubix Foods created the NEXT Flavor Network, an insight generator comprised of an exclusive group of social influencers who have joined the Rubix team to bring Gen Z-approved concepts to restaurant menus.
QUOTES“What really sets (Rubix Foods) apart is the market research and consumer insights, which plays a huge role in what we do, and also speed-to-market. Because of our size and the team members that we have here we are able to be much more nimble and agile.” (Shannon)
“We’re able to help restaurants capitalize on (flavor trends) at the peak of their virality and take advantage of trends much faster than (competitors).” (Shannon)
“Gen Z is the most diverse demographic in history and they’re really excited about trying new flavors. Social media is a part of that.” (Shannon)
“We’re seeing a lot of really exciting flavor profiles entering the marketplace. Like Korean flavors and Korean barbeque, Hawaiian flavors, a lot of spins on tropical and Caribbean flavors. It’s been really exciting. Not much is off limits right now.” (Shannon)
“We all eat food. We all have our own unique food experiences. So it’s extremely interesting and nuanced and novel to see how other people are experiencing food. Food influencers have really tapped into that.” (Shannon)
“There are very few companies that can allow brands to take advantage of social trends at the peak of their virality and actually get them on a menu while consumers still care about it. That is what brands need to do if they want to win with Gen Z.” (Shannon)
...more September 04, 2024Ep 87: Doug Renfro / President of Renfro Foods and Salsa Creator Extraordinaire Renfro Foods is a privately owned, award-winning food producer of salsas, sauces and relishes, including 30 Mrs. Renfro’s products, located in Fort Worth, Texas.
Founded in 1940, Renfro Foods is owned and managed by the second and third generations of the Renfro family. Its products are sold in the United States, the Caribbean, Canada and the U.K.
As president of Renfro Foods, Doug works closely with his cousins Becky and James to run the company. In particular, Doug focuses on research and development, private label and contract packing, quality assurance, sales and marketing, legal, information technology and a dozen other areas
Doug and his cousins strive for family harmony in managing the company and don’t make any major decisions without a unanimous vote of support.
For Doug, one of the benefits of working with family is the ability to be brutally honest with each other and still maintain a civil and professional relationship.
The team at Renfro Foods pays close attention to flavor trends to identify new salsa flavors.
QUOTES“When I got out of college, if I had come to work here I would have been chopping cabbage. The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle.” (Doug)
“When I came (to Renfro Foods) I had been in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company. My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his desk calculator. I said, ‘Here’s a spreadsheet. It’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond.’ He saw what that did and he said, ‘Can you do that every 90 days from now on?’” (Doug)
“If you don’t demand as much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell (people) is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed and suddenly it’s a great idea.” (Doug)
“If you take business things personally, that screws (family) relationships up.” (Doug)
“I think we lost money on every jar of Raspberry Chipotle we sold last year. Thankfully we didn’t sell many.” (Doug)
“I want everything on the label to be tasteable but you can’t always afford to do that without losing money,” (Doug)
TRANSCRIPT00:01.23
vigorbranding
All right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy.
00:13.93
Doug Renfro
sorry
00:15.18
vigorbranding
Renfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time.
00:32.73
Doug Renfro
Thanks, happy to be here.
00:34.60
vigorbranding
So ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company.
01:12.84
Doug Renfro
Sure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed.
01:50.40
Doug Renfro
yeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes.
01:56.90
vigorbranding
Yep.
02:01.53
Doug Renfro
And I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic.
02:07.41
vigorbranding
Right.
02:09.47
Doug Renfro
So when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore.
02:46.98
Doug Renfro
ah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price.
03:18.68
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
03:19.53
Doug Renfro
And we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs.
03:19.54
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
03:23.12
Doug Renfro
Rimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big.
03:31.24
vigorbranding
yeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality.
03:52.55
Doug Renfro
you
03:59.98
vigorbranding
So I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite?
04:05.52
Doug Renfro
Weirdly, that is also my favorite.
04:06.85
vigorbranding
Ah Nice
04:06.92
Doug Renfro
and and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically.
04:17.07
vigorbranding
Thank
04:19.83
Doug Renfro
I was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores.
04:22.21
vigorbranding
you.
04:29.82
Doug Renfro
and That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was.
04:50.78
vigorbranding
Yeah.
04:54.17
Doug Renfro
10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing.
04:58.86
vigorbranding
Right, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes?
05:03.42
Doug Renfro
If you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get.
05:11.51
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that.
05:36.67
Doug Renfro
Sure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage.
05:43.53
vigorbranding
Yeah.
05:43.60
Doug Renfro
ah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond.
06:16.59
Doug Renfro
And he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job.
06:41.34
vigorbranding
yep
06:42.42
Doug Renfro
And then we can talk about management training on your management track.
06:44.65
vigorbranding
here
06:46.70
Doug Renfro
And ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here.
06:59.74
Doug Renfro
Yeah.
06:59.93
vigorbranding
Yeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion.
07:01.41
Doug Renfro
yeah
07:04.61
vigorbranding
If you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education.
07:18.22
Doug Renfro
and And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38.
07:19.88
vigorbranding
kind
07:23.63
Doug Renfro
So you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think.
07:23.85
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
07:27.19
Doug Renfro
So there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me.
07:33.14
vigorbranding
Yeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar.
07:46.85
Doug Renfro
so
07:46.95
vigorbranding
ah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff.
07:47.79
Doug Renfro
well
07:51.08
vigorbranding
Just, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there.
07:59.16
Doug Renfro
Yeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me.
08:19.23
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
08:19.42
Doug Renfro
And it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea.
08:42.33
vigorbranding
Hmm.
08:43.81
Doug Renfro
And actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down.
08:59.28
vigorbranding
Yep, that’s right.
09:00.96
Doug Renfro
It’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things.
09:30.24
vigorbranding
That’s great.
09:38.26
Doug Renfro
And we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that.
09:59.72
vigorbranding
yeah Yep.
10:02.50
Doug Renfro
We’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business.
10:02.81
vigorbranding
Yeah.
10:05.90
Doug Renfro
We can do that.
10:06.99
vigorbranding
Yep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important.
10:17.69
Doug Renfro
Okay.
10:18.01
vigorbranding
there’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so
10:49.71
vigorbranding
And so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty.
11:03.05
Doug Renfro
Yeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up.
11:22.85
vigorbranding
so you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that?
11:42.45
Doug Renfro
Yeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa?
12:12.69
Doug Renfro
It’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to.
12:19.59
vigorbranding
Right.
12:22.91
Doug Renfro
And i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine.
12:31.59
vigorbranding
Yeah, makes sense.
12:31.88
Doug Renfro
um But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that.
12:49.81
vigorbranding
Well, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either.
13:22.12
vigorbranding
So I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that.
13:39.90
Doug Renfro
Thank you.
13:42.28
vigorbranding
So, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work?
13:55.53
Doug Renfro
But it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se.
13:58.43
vigorbranding
Okay.
14:02.35
Doug Renfro
We were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families.
14:12.71
vigorbranding
Yeah.
14:13.20
Doug Renfro
and so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a
15:01.69
Doug Renfro
but we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle.
15:10.26
vigorbranding
but
15:10.84
Doug Renfro
I’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot.
15:33.05
vigorbranding
Hmm.
15:34.74
Doug Renfro
and The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature.
15:45.35
vigorbranding
Yeah.
15:47.18
Doug Renfro
and frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one.
16:20.17
vigorbranding
Nice.
16:20.37
Doug Renfro
And we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next.
16:25.34
vigorbranding
There you go. I love it.
16:26.20
Doug Renfro
I’m still thinking.
16:29.01
vigorbranding
So what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages?
16:36.24
Doug Renfro
i And there’s there’s branded food service and then Copac Private Label. So it’s three, it’s a triad, which is really nice. It it really, you know, diversifies things for us. And we’re sort of 40, 45% Renfro and then you split the rest of it between food service and and other brands. Like I can take the national retailer usually and show you, you know, two to five other brands that we make and and not all salsas.
16:53.69
vigorbranding
That’s great.
16:59.57
vigorbranding
Mm
17:00.60
Doug Renfro
You know, we we’re acidified foods, condiments, so we can do cheese in a jar, which God didn’t mean to happen. um barbecue sauce, relish, you know, sauces.
17:12.54
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. That’s very cool. um So I mean, the flavor thing, again, is brilliant. And I love all the different combinations and they are delicious. You know, through my career, you know, again, doing CPG for for basically, almost 30 years, I hate to say the agencies around for 33 years, but doing the CPG thing for good, I think 25 years. ah food, um the flavor thing was almost, it almost seems a shortcut because there’s a lot of expense involved in in flavors. But like I remember, okay, that as dumb as this sounds, potato chips. It’s like, you know, ah plain potato chips still sell great, but put flavors in there and we helped many ah snack food brands, currently hers, with a lot of their products and and just adding new flavors all the time.
17:43.66
Doug Renfro
Wow.
17:52.57
vigorbranding
Just the consumer loves it. It gets them excited. We even did it with tuna, which, I mean, adding flavor to tuna, ah you know, and it just, we blew sales out of the water. Now, again, the companies were the the R and&D behind it, but we were like all in for the, the you know, the Sriracha flavored and all the different types of ah tuna flavors. And, you know, for Starkus, and it blew them out and the sales went through the roof.
18:14.72
Doug Renfro
So.
18:17.12
vigorbranding
So, I mean, the, I know R and&D and I know category extensions can be expensive, but I also think there’s a a sort of a hidden ah marketing excitement. ah It just you know it brings brings energy to the category. And again, when you see your products against across the shelf or those log those those labels across, it’s ah it’s a really impressive uh a lineup i mean how how you mean i do i obviously probably feel the same where you wouldn’t have so many but i mean yeah i’m sure you’re torn like do we want another skew do we not want another skew can you talk a little just a little bit about that
18:51.01
Doug Renfro
Yeah, it’s challenging because everything in life, usually the 80-20 rule works and ours, you know, we have 28 current Renfro SKUs, the top four do have the sales, you know, the top seven or 70% of the sales.
19:01.36
vigorbranding
huh
19:03.24
Doug Renfro
So you’re like, well, why don’t we just cut the rest of them because people want variety and the people who want those second tier items. It’s funny on our online platforms, those will be our best sellers because they’re so hard to get and the people don’t care what it costs. They just want it so badly.
19:16.56
vigorbranding
Right.
19:17.79
Doug Renfro
and But and you know no matter what you do, I don’t care if you have another 10 fantastic skews, the top four or five are going to be half your sales.
19:24.24
vigorbranding
That’s right.
19:26.20
Doug Renfro
If you go to a farmer’s market and they got like 30 kinds of jelly, you’ll inevitably find that two or three do most of the sales. But they they get attention. People come over there because they want to taste you know coconut marmalade, but they end up buying peach. you
19:40.92
vigorbranding
Right, right, right, right. Well, I think I heard you say that the mango habanero is number two. What’s what’s number one?
19:47.21
Doug Renfro
of habanero, though the one I was told internally would never sell much because it was so hot, but it’d be cute to have.
19:53.27
vigorbranding
Wow.
19:53.65
Doug Renfro
think It’s been number one for over 15 years and I can’t eat it. i Most of the things that are best sellers that I’ve created and when I create for Renfro, my cousins get votes in our sales director. If it’s non Renfro, the customer rules or I’ll make up something. but for rent bro i I first cook with Microsoft Excel because it we line price. It doesn’t matter how good it is if we lose money on it because I can’t charge more on just one item. So first I pre-cook it in Excel and if it’s going to work financially, then I i do what I think is good. and Then I bring in my cousins and a lot of like on the craft beer, we were about ready to take it to New York.
20:31.12
Doug Renfro
for the big show and I was like, it’s just kind of bland. And then my cousin Becky was like, yeah, it’s, they need something.
20:36.20
vigorbranding
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
20:36.98
Doug Renfro
So I threw in Guajillo, Ancho and Chipotle in small amounts. It’s kind of a mid range. And we’re like, she’s like, yeah, that’s better. And then James might think it needs to be chunkier who runs production and our sales director might have an opinion. And so it, you know, it is a village situation, but you’re right. Right now we’re like, oh, it gives me a headache to think about another skew. Cause how much could it sell? Your home runs are about one a decade.
21:00.63
vigorbranding
yeah Yeah. So you you said something very interesting there. And again, being in a CPG world, I have experience with that whole line pricing thing. So if I can ask, like I’ll say it this way. We had a client we worked with for, oh boy, we built the brand. It was probably a good 18 years and it was Turkey Hill Ice Cream. And Turkey Hill, like most brands, had a line price. But there was an awful lot of a difference in cost to make vanilla ice cream versus, let’s say, ah like a rainforest crunch or anything with nuts and stuff. Because the expense of those nuts, and and people don’t realize that.
21:32.10
Doug Renfro
Right.
21:33.41
vigorbranding
They just think it’s, oh, it’s two for $5. Or, oh, the price went up. Or it’s 89 cents more. But they they don’t realize. that one flavor to another flavor could be a huge difference and in in the cost to make it. um do you run I mean, I have to imagine you run into that to a degree. And ah you know is that something you have to deal with?
21:52.47
Doug Renfro
and and Absolutely. I think we lost money on every jar of raspberry chipotle we sold last year. Fortunately, we didn’t sell many. but yeah Raspberry is an item that the price goes wildly up and down, fluctuates like crazy. and Most things don’t. they They go up slowly or they sit still. but Our craft beer salsa, we don’t make as much money on it, but it’s fabulous and tastes great. But yeah would I be thrilled if everybody just bought mild all day long? Absolutely. I could get a new car.
22:23.33
vigorbranding
Yeah, there you go.
22:23.47
Doug Renfro
i myself And that is that is exactly the challenging aspect. Blackberry Serrano, you know making that worthy of the name, I get really annoyed when I go to a restaurant. They got a tomatillo pecan, you know smoked watermelon sauce, and all I can taste is salt. I want i want everything on the label to be tastable, but you can’t afford always to do that as much as you’d like without losing money.
22:39.89
vigorbranding
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s ah well yeah that’s ah that’s the the the the difficult part of, I’ll say, what you guys do. And that’s that’s putting product ah quality product in ah in a container. Whatever your your product is. It could be ice cream, salsa. It could be potato chips. It can be candy. it’s just the the The flavoring, you can do it. But there’s always these these cost constraints, that line pricing thing. and And then there’s the evil empires of the retailers, right? so
23:12.03
Doug Renfro
It’s a delicate dance.
23:12.91
vigorbranding
but its It is a delicate dance and I don’t i don’t envy you. so But hey, you sent us a bunch of salsa, so like we’ve had a lot of parties at Proven Group, and ah but we’re gonna have our first salsa party coming up, so we’re pretty excited about that. um But as we know, um you you have recipes throughout the thing, so ah your salsas aren’t just for tortilla chips.
23:29.66
Doug Renfro
the
23:33.46
vigorbranding
You have tons of recipes on your website that you salsa.
23:33.90
Doug Renfro
right
23:37.31
vigorbranding
um So we’ll have some fun.
23:37.41
Doug Renfro
ye
23:38.43
vigorbranding
I’m gonna i’m gonna name a few recipes from your site that use salsa. And you can tell me if you’ve tried it and what you thought of it. Ready to roll?
23:46.76
Doug Renfro
Ready.
23:47.46
vigorbranding
All right, we have the Molten Chili Chocolate Brownie with raspberry chipotle salsa.
23:54.46
Doug Renfro
That came out of a wine pairing dinner. I thought it was and a winery owner and we’re a charity event and I thought she was inebriated and they She would sober up later. No, she flew us out there and had her chef and they had like 80 people bought tickets and they paired a Renfro item with every course. And for dessert, they they used the raspberry chipotle. I think they blended it with maybe raspberries and sugar also. But ah on chocolate, that did pair nicely.
24:19.34
vigorbranding
Yeah, ah that’s interesting.
24:19.62
Doug Renfro
yeah
24:21.07
vigorbranding
and But that was your most expensive vitamin, so maybe you don’t want to sell too many of those brownies, right?
24:24.76
Doug Renfro
ah please Yeah, please don’t buy too much of it.
24:29.31
vigorbranding
Alright, meatloaf with craft beer salsa.
24:33.21
Doug Renfro
I have not had that. I have had it with the roasted salsa, which has a really strong mesquite aspect to it.
24:39.53
vigorbranding
Nice. ah Grilled, and this is also a delicious ah one of your products, but grilled peach salsa chicken with a pe with ah with a peach salsa.
24:48.11
Doug Renfro
yeah Back in the day when we still had to demo at the booth, that was our go-to.
24:51.39
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
24:52.21
Doug Renfro
And and it’s funny, people think they’re cooking. If you say, put a jar of peach salsa in a baggie, throw in the chicken breast, put it in the fridge for an hour or two, then grill it. They think they’re like a gourmet chef. um And it tastes delicious.
25:03.30
vigorbranding
Yep.
25:04.91
Doug Renfro
You can reserve some. ah It’ll caramelize on the grill, and then you can reserve like a third of it and pour it over just as you serve it.
25:07.79
vigorbranding
Mm
25:10.15
Doug Renfro
And that is delicious and crazy simple.
25:10.85
vigorbranding
-hmm. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a very good friend of mine owns a company called Gazebo salad dressing, and he sells way more salad dressing as a marinade than he does as a salad dressing. And it’s really, truly a salad dressing, but people find figured out that you know marinating in this in these products, and I’m sure your products are are phenomenal for that.
25:32.84
Doug Renfro
And I love any recipe that’s take a whole jar and use it.
25:35.06
vigorbranding
Right. That’s right. That’s right.
25:36.98
Doug Renfro
No tablespoon recipes.
25:38.73
vigorbranding
Yeah.
25:38.89
Doug Renfro
yeah
25:39.37
vigorbranding
Yeah. He he realized that early on. It’s like, well, you know, the more, especially guys, right? Guys are grilling. So what do they do? They dump the whole jar to your point, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to spare anything.
25:45.50
Doug Renfro
Absolutely. sister yeah
25:47.93
vigorbranding
So that’s, that’s the perfect consumer right there.
25:48.64
Doug Renfro
yeah
25:50.55
vigorbranding
All right. spag Spicy spaghetti sauce with medium salsa.
25:54.72
Doug Renfro
I don’t recall having that. I think we i think my cousin Becky pre-cooked everything before we would let it be on a label back and when we started doing this. I i probably sampled it, but she’s our ah she she cooks as my wife does too. ah gee They’re both excellent cooks and will actually whip these things up. I’m gluten-free too, but my wife can find gluten-free pasta to put that on.
26:16.82
vigorbranding
There you go.
26:16.93
Doug Renfro
I’ll tell her Michael said we had to taste it.
26:18.85
vigorbranding
There you go. That’s it. That’s it. So the last one is Mexican fudge with green jalapeno salsa. This one isn’t a chocolate fudge, it’s more of a cheese.
26:27.63
Doug Renfro
yeah When I came back 32 years ago, that was the only recipe we had, and it’s still the most popular. My aunt came up with that, interestingly. and it’s It’s cheddar cheese, eggs, and green salsa, and you just add more green salsa if you want it spicier, and you you put it in a pan, you throw it in the oven for 40 minutes, you go get ready for the party, whatever, take it out, slice it up, put it on triskets or whatever, and people love it. It’s gone, especially when it’s warm, and you serve it that way. ah We call it cowboy cobbler. I mean, there’s a million things, but it’s just three ingredients. like Even I can’t screw it up.
27:01.20
vigorbranding
Now you said that that when you do R and&D, it’s your cousins get involved, but you also said like the the really hot, you can’t eat. Like that’s for, is that your palette? Is it just, you don’t really like super spicy or how does that work?
27:10.80
Doug Renfro
It hurts.
27:14.06
Doug Renfro
My assistant, it’s ah my R and&D guru that I’ve got working with me now the last few years. He’ll make me occasionally do a cutting of like ghost pepper case. So in the morning, I’m like, really? That’s my breakfast. And with ghost pepper, habanero, Carolina Reaper, I can taste two or three, four samples. And I’m done for a few hours because then I’m torched and I can’t distinguish anything different.
27:33.60
vigorbranding
Right.
27:37.32
Doug Renfro
Fortunately, I don’t have to very often when we’re coming up with something. um You know, I created a ah special ah triple hot reaper for a business group you and I are in and I tasted that till I couldn’t see my feet and then we said, okay, it must be fine.
27:53.90
vigorbranding
Well, that’s fantastic. So tell me, before we wrap up, like what’s next for Renfro Foods? i mean Can you share any details about what you’re cooking up for the future? Anything you’re excited about? Anything that’s going on in the company or in the family?
28:07.24
Doug Renfro
Yeah, that’s always a frustrating thing about doing so much private label and co-pack and food services. I can’t talk about most of it, but it’s really cool. We’re we’re doing things for people like ah the dairy-free queso, you know, that’s nut-based, the things that my 87-year-old father is like, what?
28:22.27
vigorbranding
me
28:26.19
Doug Renfro
That’s what my grandparents wouldn’t have known. ah We do ethnic sauces. We were always reinvesting in the plant. my My dad, my late uncle, my grandparents taught us don’t ever milk the company. So we doubled our shipping warehouse two years ago. We added a brand new two story production employee break room with QA and production offices above it. We automated some more things on the food service line. We’re always reinvesting. We’re always looking, you know, for the future we’re doing licensing agreements with other brands where we handle the marketing for them and you’ll see if yeah you’re gonna be in the new york show i think you’ll see another brand in our booth that i can talk about then.
28:55.96
vigorbranding
Awesome.
28:59.33
vigorbranding
Yep.
29:04.36
vigorbranding
Super. That’s awesome. I mean, congratulations on all the success. and I mean, you’re, you’re a great president. You’re always very self-deprecating. Absolutely hilarious. Lots of fun. And I think that just, it sort of just, you represent the brand in my mind and in a lot, in all the positive ways, you know, and I would love to see you put a wig on and and try and emulate your camera. That would be, ah that would be fantastic.
29:23.97
Doug Renfro
maybe yeah yeah
29:25.99
vigorbranding
That’s how you should work the booth. You should be Mrs. Renfro. So,
29:28.46
Doug Renfro
like
29:29.43
vigorbranding
All right, so I have one last question I asked this from every guest and it can’t be your product if you had one final meal What would you eat? Maybe where and why?
29:40.36
Doug Renfro
Well, I forgot the can’t do your problems. You gotta start with chips and salsa. And frankly, I do eat lots of people’s salsa. It’s it’s experimentation, but also, you know, I always ask people, you think the donut shop guy eats a donut every day? You know, you want to change it up. ah for lunch ah For the entree, I think I’d have chicken tikka masala. My wife and I have become big fans of of Indian food and eating it around the world. I would say one of the places in London, I think it’s Rick Road that has all their Indian restaurants.
30:05.10
vigorbranding
Nice.
30:06.18
Doug Renfro
And then Grand Marnier Soufflé for dessert. It’s one of those things that’s too hard to make at home, but most so hard that it’s hard to find it. There’s a French restaurant locally. I can get it like occasionally and that, now those don’t go together, but you said final meal, so it doesn’t matter.
30:20.00
vigorbranding
That’s it. Final meal. Yeah, that’s what you got to do. That’s fantastic.
30:23.12
Doug Renfro
ah
30:23.48
vigorbranding
Well, Doug, thank you very much.
30:24.20
Doug Renfro
yeah
30:25.29
vigorbranding
I look forward to, I know you’re doing ah an event in in in Fort Worth ah for all of us. um That’ll be fantastic. And I will see you at Fancy Food.
30:34.95
Doug Renfro
See you there. Thanks again for letting me play.
30:36.83
vigorbranding
All right, pal. Appreciate it.
00:01.23
vigorbranding
All right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy.
00:13.93
Doug Renfro
sorry
00:15.18
vigorbranding
Renfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time.
00:32.73
Doug Renfro
Thanks, happy to be here.
00:34.60
vigorbranding
So ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company.
01:12.84
Doug Renfro
Sure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed.
01:50.40
Doug Renfro
yeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes.
01:56.90
vigorbranding
Yep.
02:01.53
Doug Renfro
And I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic.
02:07.41
vigorbranding
Right.
02:09.47
Doug Renfro
So when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore.
02:46.98
Doug Renfro
ah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price.
03:18.68
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
03:19.53
Doug Renfro
And we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs.
03:19.54
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
03:23.12
Doug Renfro
Rimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big.
03:31.24
vigorbranding
yeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality.
03:52.55
Doug Renfro
you
03:59.98
vigorbranding
So I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite?
04:05.52
Doug Renfro
Weirdly, that is also my favorite.
04:06.85
vigorbranding
Ah Nice
04:06.92
Doug Renfro
and and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically.
04:17.07
vigorbranding
Thank
04:19.83
Doug Renfro
I was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores.
04:22.21
vigorbranding
you.
04:29.82
Doug Renfro
and That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was.
04:50.78
vigorbranding
Yeah.
04:54.17
Doug Renfro
10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing.
04:58.86
vigorbranding
Right, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes?
05:03.42
Doug Renfro
If you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get.
05:11.51
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that.
05:36.67
Doug Renfro
Sure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage.
05:43.53
vigorbranding
Yeah.
05:43.60
Doug Renfro
ah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond.
06:16.59
Doug Renfro
And he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job.
06:41.34
vigorbranding
yep
06:42.42
Doug Renfro
And then we can talk about management training on your management track.
06:44.65
vigorbranding
here
06:46.70
Doug Renfro
And ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here.
06:59.74
Doug Renfro
Yeah.
06:59.93
vigorbranding
Yeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion.
07:01.41
Doug Renfro
yeah
07:04.61
vigorbranding
If you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education.
07:18.22
Doug Renfro
and And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38.
07:19.88
vigorbranding
kind
07:23.63
Doug Renfro
So you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think.
07:23.85
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
07:27.19
Doug Renfro
So there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me.
07:33.14
vigorbranding
Yeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar.
07:46.85
Doug Renfro
so
07:46.95
vigorbranding
ah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff.
07:47.79
Doug Renfro
well
07:51.08
vigorbranding
Just, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there.
07:59.16
Doug Renfro
Yeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me.
08:19.23
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
08:19.42
Doug Renfro
And it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea.
08:42.33
vigorbranding
Hmm.
08:43.81
Doug Renfro
And actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down.
08:59.28
vigorbranding
Yep, that’s right.
09:00.96
Doug Renfro
It’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things.
09:30.24
vigorbranding
That’s great.
09:38.26
Doug Renfro
And we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that.
09:59.72
vigorbranding
yeah Yep.
10:02.50
Doug Renfro
We’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business.
10:02.81
vigorbranding
Yeah.
10:05.90
Doug Renfro
We can do that.
10:06.99
vigorbranding
Yep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important.
10:17.69
Doug Renfro
Okay.
10:18.01
vigorbranding
there’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so
10:49.71
vigorbranding
And so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty.
11:03.05
Doug Renfro
Yeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up.
11:22.85
vigorbranding
so you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that?
11:42.45
Doug Renfro
Yeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa?
12:12.69
Doug Renfro
It’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to.
12:19.59
vigorbranding
Right.
12:22.91
Doug Renfro
And i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine.
12:31.59
vigorbranding
Yeah, makes sense.
12:31.88
Doug Renfro
um But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that.
12:49.81
vigorbranding
Well, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either.
13:22.12
vigorbranding
So I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that.
13:39.90
Doug Renfro
Thank you.
13:42.28
vigorbranding
So, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work?
13:55.53
Doug Renfro
But it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se.
13:58.43
vigorbranding
Okay.
14:02.35
Doug Renfro
We were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families.
14:12.71
vigorbranding
Yeah.
14:13.20
Doug Renfro
and so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a
15:01.69
Doug Renfro
but we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle.
15:10.26
vigorbranding
but
15:10.84
Doug Renfro
I’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot.
15:33.05
vigorbranding
Hmm.
15:34.74
Doug Renfro
and The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature.
15:45.35
vigorbranding
Yeah.
15:47.18
Doug Renfro
and frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one.
16:20.17
vigorbranding
Nice.
16:20.37
Doug Renfro
And we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next.
16:25.34
vigorbranding
There you go. I love it.
16:26.20
Doug Renfro
I’m still thinking.
16:29.01
vigorbranding
So what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages?
16:36.24
Doug Renfro
i And there’s there’s branded food service and then Copac Private Label. So it’s three, it’s a triad, which is really nice. It it really, you know, diversifies things for us. And we’re sort of 40, 45% Renfro and then you split the rest of it between food service and and other brands. Like I can take the national retailer usually and show you, you know, two to five other brands that we make and and not all salsas.
16:53.69
vigorbranding
That’s great.
16:59.57
vigorbranding
Mm
17:00.60
Doug Renfro
You know, we we’re acidified foods, condiments, so we can do cheese in a jar, which God didn’t mean to happen. um barbecue sauce, relish, you know, sauces.
17:12.54
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. That’s very cool. um So I mean, the flavor thing, again, is brilliant. And I love all the different combinations and they are delicious. You know, through my career, you know, again, doing CPG for for basically, almost 30 years, I hate to say the agencies around for 33 years, but doing the CPG thing for good, I think 25 years. ah food, um the flavor thing was almost, it almost seems a shortcut because there’s a lot of expense involved in in flavors. But like I remember, okay, that as dumb as this sounds, potato chips. It’s like, you know, ah plain potato chips still sell great, but put flavors in there and we helped many ah snack food brands, currently hers, with a lot of their products and and just adding new flavors all the time.
17:43.66
Doug Renfro
Wow.
17:52.57
vigorbranding
Just the consumer loves it. It gets them excited. We even did it with tuna, which, I mean, adding flavor to tuna, ah you know, and it just, we blew sales out of the water. Now, again, the companies were the the R and&D behind it, but we were like all in for the, the you know, the Sriracha flavored and all the different types of ah tuna flavors. And, you know, for Starkus, and it blew them out and the sales went through the roof.
18:14.72
Doug Renfro
So.
18:17.12
vigorbranding
So, I mean, the, I know R and&D and I know category extensions can be expensive, but I also think there’s a a sort of a hidden ah marketing excitement. ah It just you know it brings brings energy to the category. And again, when you see your products against across the shelf or those log those those labels across, it’s ah it’s a really impressive uh a lineup i mean how how you mean i do i obviously probably feel the same where you wouldn’t have so many but i mean yeah i’m sure you’re torn like do we want another skew do we not want another skew can you talk a little just a little bit about that
18:51.01
Doug Renfro
Yeah, it’s challenging because everything in life, usually the 80-20 rule works and ours, you know, we have 28 current Renfro SKUs, the top four do have the sales, you know, the top seven or 70% of the sales.
19:01.36
vigorbranding
huh
19:03.24
Doug Renfro
So you’re like, well, why don’t we just cut the rest of them because people want variety and the people who want those second tier items. It’s funny on our online platforms, those will be our best sellers because they’re so hard to get and the people don’t care what it costs. They just want it so badly.
19:16.56
vigorbranding
Right.
19:17.79
Doug Renfro
and But and you know no matter what you do, I don’t care if you have another 10 fantastic skews, the top four or five are going to be half your sales.
19:24.24
vigorbranding
That’s right.
19:26.20
Doug Renfro
If you go to a farmer’s market and they got like 30 kinds of jelly, you’ll inevitably find that two or three do most of the sales. But they they get attention. People come over there because they want to taste you know coconut marmalade, but they end up buying peach. you
19:40.92
vigorbranding
Right, right, right, right. Well, I think I heard you say that the mango habanero is number two. What’s what’s number one?
19:47.21
Doug Renfro
of habanero, though the one I was told internally would never sell much because it was so hot, but it’d be cute to have.
19:53.27
vigorbranding
Wow.
19:53.65
Doug Renfro
think It’s been number one for over 15 years and I can’t eat it. i Most of the things that are best sellers that I’ve created and when I create for Renfro, my cousins get votes in our sales director. If it’s non Renfro, the customer rules or I’ll make up something. but for rent bro i I first cook with Microsoft Excel because it we line price. It doesn’t matter how good it is if we lose money on it because I can’t charge more on just one item. So first I pre-cook it in Excel and if it’s going to work financially, then I i do what I think is good. and Then I bring in my cousins and a lot of like on the craft beer, we were about ready to take it to New York.
20:31.12
Doug Renfro
for the big show and I was like, it’s just kind of bland. And then my cousin Becky was like, yeah, it’s, they need something.
20:36.20
vigorbranding
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
20:36.98
Doug Renfro
So I threw in Guajillo, Ancho and Chipotle in small amounts. It’s kind of a mid range. And we’re like, she’s like, yeah, that’s better. And then James might think it needs to be chunkier who runs production and our sales director might have an opinion. And so it, you know, it is a village situation, but you’re right. Right now we’re like, oh, it gives me a headache to think about another skew. Cause how much could it sell? Your home runs are about one a decade.
21:00.63
vigorbranding
yeah Yeah. So you you said something very interesting there. And again, being in a CPG world, I have experience with that whole line pricing thing. So if I can ask, like I’ll say it this way. We had a client we worked with for, oh boy, we built the brand. It was probably a good 18 years and it was Turkey Hill Ice Cream. And Turkey Hill, like most brands, had a line price. But there was an awful lot of a difference in cost to make vanilla ice cream versus, let’s say, ah like a rainforest crunch or anything with nuts and stuff. Because the expense of those nuts, and and people don’t realize that.
21:32.10
Doug Renfro
Right.
21:33.41
vigorbranding
They just think it’s, oh, it’s two for $5. Or, oh, the price went up. Or it’s 89 cents more. But they they don’t realize. that one flavor to another flavor could be a huge difference and in in the cost to make it. um do you run I mean, I have to imagine you run into that to a degree. And ah you know is that something you have to deal with?
21:52.47
Doug Renfro
and and Absolutely. I think we lost money on every jar of raspberry chipotle we sold last year. Fortunately, we didn’t sell many. but yeah Raspberry is an item that the price goes wildly up and down, fluctuates like crazy. and Most things don’t. they They go up slowly or they sit still. but Our craft beer salsa, we don’t make as much money on it, but it’s fabulous and tastes great. But yeah would I be thrilled if everybody just bought mild all day long? Absolutely. I could get a new car.
22:23.33
vigorbranding
Yeah, there you go.
22:23.47
Doug Renfro
i myself And that is that is exactly the challenging aspect. Blackberry Serrano, you know making that worthy of the name, I get really annoyed when I go to a restaurant. They got a tomatillo pecan, you know smoked watermelon sauce, and all I can taste is salt. I want i want everything on the label to be tastable, but you can’t afford always to do that as much as you’d like without losing money.
22:39.89
vigorbranding
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s ah well yeah that’s ah that’s the the the the difficult part of, I’ll say, what you guys do. And that’s that’s putting product ah quality product in ah in a container. Whatever your your product is. It could be ice cream, salsa. It could be potato chips. It can be candy. it’s just the the The flavoring, you can do it. But there’s always these these cost constraints, that line pricing thing. and And then there’s the evil empires of the retailers, right? so
23:12.03
Doug Renfro
It’s a delicate dance.
23:12.91
vigorbranding
but its It is a delicate dance and I don’t i don’t envy you. so But hey, you sent us a bunch of salsa, so like we’ve had a lot of parties at Proven Group, and ah but we’re gonna have our first salsa party coming up, so we’re pretty excited about that. um But as we know, um you you have recipes throughout the thing, so ah your salsas aren’t just for tortilla chips.
23:29.66
Doug Renfro
the
23:33.46
vigorbranding
You have tons of recipes on your website that you salsa.
23:33.90
Doug Renfro
right
23:37.31
vigorbranding
um So we’ll have some fun.
23:37.41
Doug Renfro
ye
23:38.43
vigorbranding
I’m gonna i’m gonna name a few recipes from your site that use salsa. And you can tell me if you’ve tried it and what you thought of it. Ready to roll?
23:46.76
Doug Renfro
Ready.
23:47.46
vigorbranding
All right, we have the Molten Chili Chocolate Brownie with raspberry chipotle salsa.
23:54.46
Doug Renfro
That came out of a wine pairing dinner. I thought it was and a winery owner and we’re a charity event and I thought she was inebriated and they She would sober up later. No, she flew us out there and had her chef and they had like 80 people bought tickets and they paired a Renfro item with every course. And for dessert, they they used the raspberry chipotle. I think they blended it with maybe raspberries and sugar also. But ah on chocolate, that did pair nicely.
24:19.34
vigorbranding
Yeah, ah that’s interesting.
24:19.62
Doug Renfro
yeah
24:21.07
vigorbranding
and But that was your most expensive vitamin, so maybe you don’t want to sell too many of those brownies, right?
24:24.76
Doug Renfro
ah please Yeah, please don’t buy too much of it.
24:29.31
vigorbranding
Alright, meatloaf with craft beer salsa.
24:33.21
Doug Renfro
I have not had that. I have had it with the roasted salsa, which has a really strong mesquite aspect to it.
24:39.53
vigorbranding
Nice. ah Grilled, and this is also a delicious ah one of your products, but grilled peach salsa chicken with a pe with ah with a peach salsa.
24:48.11
Doug Renfro
yeah Back in the day when we still had to demo at the booth, that was our go-to.
24:51.39
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
24:52.21
Doug Renfro
And and it’s funny, people think they’re cooking. If you say, put a jar of peach salsa in a baggie, throw in the chicken breast, put it in the fridge for an hour or two, then grill it. They think they’re like a gourmet chef. um And it tastes delicious.
25:03.30
vigorbranding
Yep.
25:04.91
Doug Renfro
You can reserve some. ah It’ll caramelize on the grill, and then you can reserve like a third of it and pour it over just as you serve it.
25:07.79
vigorbranding
Mm
25:10.15
Doug Renfro
And that is delicious and crazy simple.
25:10.85
vigorbranding
-hmm. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a very good friend of mine owns a company called Gazebo salad dressing, and he sells way more salad dressing as a marinade than he does as a salad dressing. And it’s really, truly a salad dressing, but people find figured out that you know marinating in this in these products, and I’m sure your products are are phenomenal for that.
25:32.84
Doug Renfro
And I love any recipe that’s take a whole jar and use it.
25:35.06
vigorbranding
Right. That’s right. That’s right.
25:36.98
Doug Renfro
No tablespoon recipes.
25:38.73
vigorbranding
Yeah.
25:38.89
Doug Renfro
yeah
25:39.37
vigorbranding
Yeah. He he realized that early on. It’s like, well, you know, the more, especially guys, right? Guys are grilling. So what do they do? They dump the whole jar to your point, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to spare anything.
25:45.50
Doug Renfro
Absolutely. sister yeah
25:47.93
vigorbranding
So that’s, that’s the perfect consumer right there.
25:48.64
Doug Renfro
yeah
25:50.55
vigorbranding
All right. spag Spicy spaghetti sauce with medium salsa.
25:54.72
Doug Renfro
I don’t recall having that. I think we i think my cousin Becky pre-cooked everything before we would let it be on a label back and when we started doing this. I i probably sampled it, but she’s our ah she she cooks as my wife does too. ah gee They’re both excellent cooks and will actually whip these things up. I’m gluten-free too, but my wife can find gluten-free pasta to put that on.
26:16.82
vigorbranding
There you go.
26:16.93
Doug Renfro
I’ll tell her Michael said we had to taste it.
26:18.85
vigorbranding
There you go. That’s it. That’s it. So the last one is Mexican fudge with green jalapeno salsa. This one isn’t a chocolate fudge, it’s more of a cheese.
26:27.63
Doug Renfro
yeah When I came back 32 years ago, that was the only recipe we had, and it’s still the most popular. My aunt came up with that, interestingly. and it’s It’s cheddar cheese, eggs, and green salsa, and you just add more green salsa if you want it spicier, and you you put it in a pan, you throw it in the oven for 40 minutes, you go get ready for the party, whatever, take it out, slice it up, put it on triskets or whatever, and people love it. It’s gone, especially when it’s warm, and you serve it that way. ah We call it cowboy cobbler. I mean, there’s a million things, but it’s just three ingredients. like Even I can’t screw it up.
27:01.20
vigorbranding
Now you said that that when you do R and&D, it’s your cousins get involved, but you also said like the the really hot, you can’t eat. Like that’s for, is that your palette? Is it just, you don’t really like super spicy or how does that work?
27:10.80
Doug Renfro
It hurts.
27:14.06
Doug Renfro
My assistant, it’s ah my R and&D guru that I’ve got working with me now the last few years. He’ll make me occasionally do a cutting of like ghost pepper case. So in the morning, I’m like, really? That’s my breakfast. And with ghost pepper, habanero, Carolina Reaper, I can taste two or three, four samples. And I’m done for a few hours because then I’m torched and I can’t distinguish anything different.
27:33.60
vigorbranding
Right.
27:37.32
Doug Renfro
Fortunately, I don’t have to very often when we’re coming up with something. um You know, I created a ah special ah triple hot reaper for a business group you and I are in and I tasted that till I couldn’t see my feet and then we said, okay, it must be fine.
27:53.90
vigorbranding
Well, that’s fantastic. So tell me, before we wrap up, like what’s next for Renfro Foods? i mean Can you share any details about what you’re cooking up for the future? Anything you’re excited about? Anything that’s going on in the company or in the family?
28:07.24
Doug Renfro
Yeah, that’s always a frustrating thing about doing so much private label and co-pack and food services. I can’t talk about most of it, but it’s really cool. We’re we’re doing things for people like ah the dairy-free queso, you know, that’s nut-based, the things that my 87-year-old father is like, what?
28:22.27
vigorbranding
me
28:26.19
Doug Renfro
That’s what my grandparents wouldn’t have known. ah We do ethnic sauces. We were always reinvesting in the plant. my My dad, my late uncle, my grandparents taught us don’t ever milk the company. So we doubled our shipping warehouse two years ago. We added a brand new two story production employee break room with QA and production offices above it. We automated some more things on the food service line. We’re always reinvesting. We’re always looking, you know, for the future we’re doing licensing agreements with other brands where we handle the marketing for them and you’ll see if yeah you’re gonna be in the new york show i think you’ll see another brand in our booth that i can talk about then.
28:55.96
vigorbranding
Awesome.
28:59.33
vigorbranding
Yep.
29:04.36
vigorbranding
Super. That’s awesome. I mean, congratulations on all the success. and I mean, you’re, you’re a great president. You’re always very self-deprecating. Absolutely hilarious. Lots of fun. And I think that just, it sort of just, you represent the brand in my mind and in a lot, in all the positive ways, you know, and I would love to see you put a wig on and and try and emulate your camera. That would be, ah that would be fantastic.
29:23.97
Doug Renfro
maybe yeah yeah
29:25.99
vigorbranding
That’s how you should work the booth. You should be Mrs. Renfro. So,
29:28.46
Doug Renfro
like
29:29.43
vigorbranding
All right, so I have one last question I asked this from every guest and it can’t be your product if you had one final meal What would you eat? Maybe where and why?
29:40.36
Doug Renfro
Well, I forgot the can’t do your problems. You gotta start with chips and salsa. And frankly, I do eat lots of people’s salsa. It’s it’s experimentation, but also, you know, I always ask people, you think the donut shop guy eats a donut every day? You know, you want to change it up. ah for lunch ah For the entree, I think I’d have chicken tikka masala. My wife and I have become big fans of of Indian food and eating it around the world. I would say one of the places in London, I think it’s Rick Road that has all their Indian restaurants.
30:05.10
vigorbranding
Nice.
30:06.18
Doug Renfro
And then Grand Marnier Soufflé for dessert. It’s one of those things that’s too hard to make at home, but most so hard that it’s hard to find it. There’s a French restaurant locally. I can get it like occasionally and that, now those don’t go together, but you said final meal, so it doesn’t matter.
30:20.00
vigorbranding
That’s it. Final meal. Yeah, that’s what you got to do. That’s fantastic.
30:23.12
Doug Renfro
ah
30:23.48
vigorbranding
Well, Doug, thank you very much.
30:24.20
Doug Renfro
yeah
30:25.29
vigorbranding
I look forward to, I know you’re doing ah an event in in in Fort Worth ah for all of us. um That’ll be fantastic. And I will see you at Fancy Food.
30:34.95
Doug Renfro
See you there. Thanks again for letting me play.
30:36.83
vigorbranding
All right, pal. Appreciate it.
...more August 21, 2024Ep 86: Burney Jennings / Executive Chairman of Biscuitville Burney Jennings is the CEO and president of Biscuitville. Burney took over the leadership reins from his father and founder of Biscuitville Maurice Jennings in 1996. Burney’s bold leadership, vision and keen sense of knowing what customers want has contributed to the company’s growth and success.
Headquartered in Greensboro, North Carolina, Biscuitville Fresh Southern is a family-owned company serving authentic Southern food made fresh daily from locally sourced ingredients. Known as the Home of the Biscuit Window Since 1966, Biscuitville serves scratch-made biscuits baked fresh every 15 minutes.
Biscuitville employs over 2,400 people and operates more than 70 restaurants in North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina. In July 2023, Biscuitville was voted the nation’s Best Fast Food Breakfast & Best Regional Fast Food restaurant in the 2023 USA Today Readers’ Choice 10Best contest.
Burney’s father inherited his mother’s famous biscuit recipe after his ailing mother gave him a choice of his inheritance – the recipe or the farm. Burney’s father chose the recipe and the rest is history.
Biscuitville has stood out from the competition for not working with food delivery services like Uber Eats and GrubHub. According to Burney, the decision was based on several factors including the inability to accommodate to-go orders because the restaurant is so busy.
Biscuitville has made headlines with its “Life After 2” program in which each of its locations close at 2pm each day. The program allows employees to pursue other interests and spend more time with their families.
QUOTES“(My grandmother) gave my dad – since he was the oldest – the choice: My biscuit recipe or the farm. He chose the biscuit recipe.” (Burney)
“The key to a good biscuit is love.” (Burney)
“Growing up, my dad was fascinated by chain restaurants. My dad told me, ‘We all know how to make a McDonald’s hamburger. We know the ingredients. It’s not about the burger, it’s how they do it. It’s the system they put in place. It’s the marketing, it’s the brand, it’s the people, it’s the execution.’” (Burney)
“We started closing at 2pm. Our food quality went up, our food costs went down and our employees are much happier. Now of course, you need to be a morning person. If you’re not a morning person, we’re not a good place for you.” (Burney)
“We really strive to work with local companies first, and if we can’t be local, we work with family businesses.” (Burney)
“We’ve been able to differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close at 2pm. People know breakfast is our focus.” (Burney)
TRANSCRIPT00:00.01
Burney Jennings
I can, this is not too close.
00:04.65
vigorbranding
No, ye you’re perfect.
00:05.35
Burney Jennings
No video? Okay.
00:06.54
vigorbranding
Yep. Okay. You ready to roll?
00:08.75
Burney Jennings
Now I’m ready to roll.
00:10.09
vigorbranding
All right. Welcome, Fork Tales fans. The best biscuits in the world are made in the South, of course. And the best place to buy those biscuits is a restaurant called Biscuitville. Today’s guest is the chairman of bisop but Biscuitville, Bernie Jennings, and we’re going to talk about biscuits, family, and a whole lot more. Bernie, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome, and we’re looking forward to hearing your story.
00:35.38
Burney Jennings
Thank you, Michael. I appreciate you inviting me to your podcast.
00:39.08
vigorbranding
Very cool. So, okay. We’ll start sort of in the beginning here. Your father founded Biscuitville in 1966 and you were raised to eventually take over the reins, which you did in 1996. You often joke that your birth date and your higher date are the same date. ah Talk about that a little bit. Talk about the start and how you got into the business and how you were raised basically in the business.
01:03.01
Burney Jennings
Sure, so I feel like I was born into the business watching my dad as an entrepreneur, um you know, try different things in the restaurant business. He started out with, you know, really a bread store um and he was selling day-old bread and um through his travels and he was also selling flour as not flowers as in roses but flour um by the train carload um and he saw pizza and he thought that was a pretty neat concept so he started a concept called pizza to go
01:28.83
vigorbranding
Wow.
01:35.86
Burney Jennings
I eventually added biscuits in the morning because it was of as in a slow day part to no day part. And to make a long story short, change the name to Pizzaville. The biscuits were doing really well. I said, but let me just see if I can make a go at a biscuit concept without the pizza. and opened up one in downtown Danville, Virginia called it Biscuitville and the story goes on from there. Eventually converted all the pizzavills over to Biscuitvilles and we’ve been growing ever since. But to answer your question, watching my dad go through that and I remember yeah he used to do his own training videos and
02:15.96
Burney Jennings
yeah middle of the night, yeah know I fell asleep at about 1130 and he woke me up at 630 in the morning when they were doing the videos and I just feel like I grew grew up in the business. um But you know how did I get into the business?
02:27.33
vigorbranding
That.
02:31.64
Burney Jennings
um I call myself a late bloomer. I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was growing up. I didn’t know if I wanted to be in the restaurant business, in the real estate business, oh just didn’t know. So when I got out of college, I started working for my dad doing odds and end jobs and eventually worked my way into a restaurant we called, what we had called the cutting board, which was a steakhouse in Burlington. um From that started managing a Pizzaville restaurant. And you know from that went over to the Biscuitville side and really worked every department in the company.
03:08.55
Burney Jennings
um I didn’t run all the departments, but I got an exposure to that. And around 1996, my dad made me president of the company. But it wasn’t like I set out to the be in it.
03:17.62
vigorbranding
Wow.
03:22.29
Burney Jennings
But once I started getting a taste of it, I loved it.
03:25.85
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. So like I have a rule like for my daughters, ah not that they’re interested whatsoever in what I’m doing ever, but if they want to get into the business, my my rule was you have to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion. Did you guys have anything like that?
03:40.12
Burney Jennings
Right.
03:41.12
vigorbranding
Or is there any kind of rules that you set up that way or anything you know to that to that thing? Or is it just a coincidence? It just happened happened to work out.
03:48.73
Burney Jennings
It just happened to work out for me. However, I also learned that rule. having you know I have four kids. One of them does work in the company, my oldest son, Blake, and he had to do the same thing. He worked about five or six years outside of our business before he joined us. And his skillset is real estate development, did that in Washington, DC in Raleigh. But I think that’s really important, joining a family business to have that outside experience before joining.
04:12.40
vigorbranding
Mmhmm.
04:18.74
Burney Jennings
And I’m sure I would have benefited from it.
04:19.01
vigorbranding
Amen. Yeah, well, and you know, look, we I talked to a lot of folks that are part of family businesses and, you know, it’s it’s awesome, right? yeah And there’s there’s nothing more important than family, right?
04:29.60
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
04:30.37
vigorbranding
and but But family owned businesses, I mean, it can be it can be a difficult run. I mean, you know, there’s we we, you and I certainly know of a lot of of of of family businesses where there’s turmoil and problems. So ah to navigate that, I think it’s good to have those rules set up out front and And you gotta abide by them, right? I mean, it’s ah it’s an important thing.
04:49.95
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
04:51.07
vigorbranding
So now, is your son, is he going to be, I mean, what is his role right now?
04:56.05
Burney Jennings
He does a real estate development work, yeah repair which would include the construction repairs and maintenance site selection.
04:57.93
vigorbranding
Okay.
05:03.21
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
05:03.88
Burney Jennings
I mean, that’s that’s his job.
05:07.45
vigorbranding
Yeah, which is not nothing, because you have how many locations? Like 50 plus, right?
05:10.79
Burney Jennings
Yeah, we’re about 79 locations a day with four under construction.
05:13.16
vigorbranding
Wow. Okay. Wow. Jeez.
05:16.06
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
05:16.19
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. So yeah I want to take it back to the beginning because I love, I always say there’s always these great stories, right? So I love this story. Your ailing grandmother called her grandsons to her bedside, which had been your father, asked them to choose their inheritance.
05:28.11
Burney Jennings
Right?
05:31.03
vigorbranding
So you want to tell that story?
05:33.05
Burney Jennings
Yeah, so he she gave my dad since he was the oldest on the choice between the biscuit recipe or the farm and he chose the biscuit recipe and my brother might hit my uncle which was his brother got the farm.
05:49.20
vigorbranding
So how did the farm work out? I mean, is was he happy with that trade?
05:51.52
Burney Jennings
You know, I say my dad, and and I think it’s just a great story. Interestingly enough, um my uncle used to ask me, where’s the farm? He was he he still was looking for the farm. um it’s eastern east and My grandparents lived in eastern Tennessee, in a great area.
06:09.33
vigorbranding
Okay.
06:11.84
Burney Jennings
In fact, there’s a Jennings Cemetery there, lots of Jennings there.
06:14.51
vigorbranding
Wow.
06:17.11
vigorbranding
Wow. So, so the farm does exist.
06:17.94
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
06:19.03
vigorbranding
Your uncle got the farm. Did he ever, was your uncle ever a part of the business?
06:20.61
Burney Jennings
Yeah. Um, so when we look at the business side, I mentioned early on that my dad was a flower salesman.
06:28.81
vigorbranding
Yep.
06:28.91
Burney Jennings
Um, that was with, that was something that his dad or my grandfather, this is my grandfather had. And that’s a business. My uncle, who was a younger brother took over when my dad got into restaurant business.
06:40.71
vigorbranding
Gotcha.
06:42.31
Burney Jennings
My uncle did the flower business.
06:45.72
vigorbranding
That’s funny.
06:46.46
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
06:46.48
vigorbranding
Does a farm in Tennessee still exist?
06:49.04
Burney Jennings
No, I mean, that yeah, it exists, but it’s not family owned anymore.
06:50.00
vigorbranding
Okay.
06:52.36
vigorbranding
Not in a family. That’s funny.
06:53.42
Burney Jennings
Yeah. Yeah.
06:55.24
vigorbranding
So I guess without giving away the secret recipe, the thing that that your father chose, what’s what’s the key to a good biscuit?
06:55.37
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
07:03.02
Burney Jennings
Yeah, so my dad was very, very practical. And I’ll answer the question, the key to the good bisits the key to a good biscuit is love. And what I mean by that is growing up, my um yeah my dad was fascinated with chain restaurants. And he he told me, look, we all know how to make a McDonald’s hamburger. We know the ingredients. It’s not about the McDonald’s hamburger. It’s how they do it. It’s the system they put in place. It’s the marketing. It’s the brand. It’s the it’s a people. It’s the execution. He said, so yeah when when we look at making a good biscuit,
07:44.93
Burney Jennings
It’s pretty simple ingredients. It’s self-rising flour, shortening, and buttermilk.
07:50.23
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
07:50.31
Burney Jennings
It’s what do you do with it? How do you market it? How are, you know, it’s a friendliness. How do you make the people who are buying it feel special? So I call it love. It’s that’s how you make a good biscuit.
07:59.82
vigorbranding
Yep.
08:02.26
vigorbranding
Yeah. Well, you know, bra I’ve known you for a long time and you’re very engaging and you can it’s amazing because it’s I can tell you care. and And you know, people might be listening saying, okay, right, you make it with love.
08:10.06
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
08:12.71
vigorbranding
But like family, not just your family, your company, you see your company as a family. And I think that whole, that passion and that caring for people really, really comes through.
08:17.61
Burney Jennings
Right.
08:22.62
vigorbranding
And I think I commend you for that. And ah I mean, I just think that’s an ah it’s an amazing attribute to you and your company.
08:29.06
Burney Jennings
Well, thank you.
08:30.68
vigorbranding
So Biscuitville has made some great headlines in recent years for going against industry trends. And I’m i’m always impressed by things like this. It’s hard to stand by, I’ll say, you’re your your beliefs, if you will, and you know i mean from just being open for breakfast ah you know to to you know all the other things that you that you do and that you keep sacred, I guess. um So the one of the huge trends, obviously, especially since COVID was ah third party delivery services like Uber Eats, DoorDash, and Grubhub. um you You are not working with them, is that correct?
09:05.54
Burney Jennings
That is correct. Yeah, I can expand.
09:07.88
vigorbranding
what And the thinking there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:09.57
Burney Jennings
Yeah,
09:10.23
vigorbranding
i’d like to yeah I want to hear a little bit about thinking there because i’ I’m intrigued.
09:14.03
Burney Jennings
yeah so it’s it’s several things. One, um we have worked on our packaging so our food can travel well. um An example in in in the restaurant business is french fries. How do you keep a french fry hot and fresh for 20 minutes while it’s going from your restaurant to to be delivered?
09:30.01
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
09:35.33
Burney Jennings
So our biscuits are best eaten fresh. um When we look at our business, we’re opened basically eight and a half hours a day, 5.30 to 2 in the afternoon. And we do a lot of business in a short period of timeframe and getting to go order like an Uber Eats order on a 930 on a Saturday done workforce because we’re having trouble. you know, taking care of those guests that are in front of us. um yeah Chipotle, I think, has done a really good job in their restaurants of making a second makeup line just for to-go orders so that it doesn’t mess up their dining.
10:15.27
Burney Jennings
With us, we we we have the dining room and we have the drive-through. Drive-throughs went from pre-COVID around 63% of sales to now 75% of sales.
10:26.94
vigorbranding
Wow.
10:27.69
Burney Jennings
It does seem to be coming off a little bit, but it’s holding holding in that number. um So we’re doing a tremendous amount of business in a short period of time and it’s part of a capacity issue of how do you fit those orders in. So it’s on our radar.
10:42.93
vigorbranding
Mmhmm.
10:45.08
Burney Jennings
I think we’ll end up solving the packaging and solving some of the back of house stuff but for right now it’s not it’s not top of mind for us.
10:53.42
vigorbranding
Well, and again, you know, going back to to like what I was saying earlier about you and the way you, ah your personality, everything, you know, you say you make these biscuits with love. Well, you’re not, you you refuse to sell them ah through a delivery service because it’s not about the delivery service, per se, it’s more about like the quality of the product that they’re going to get at the end of the day. And at the end of the day, that’s your brand, right? I mean, your Biscuitville and, you know, you don’t want to have, a you you don’t want to to have um anything happen to that product that diminishes the the experience, the consumer experience.
11:13.52
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
11:20.02
Burney Jennings
Right.
11:23.16
Burney Jennings
and I agree. And I like those delivery services. I use them my so my myself.
11:26.72
vigorbranding
Yep.
11:28.08
Burney Jennings
It is definitely not about the delivery service. They’re doing a great job in providing ah a good service.
11:33.84
vigorbranding
Yep. The other thing, and i’m I’m curious about this too, because again, I commend you for it. So I’m not, well, by no means am I questioning it, but 5.30 a.m. ah to closing at two, I mean, you know, again, most most restaurants out there be like, okay, well, that’s great for them.
11:41.49
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
11:47.45
vigorbranding
What are we gonna do for the the you know lunch? You know, we’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. What about dinner? We’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. I mean, everyone would try and open up as many day parts as he absolutely humanly could. And look at some of the different QSRs, like I’ll say, like McDonald’s. I mean, they’re they’re in the basic dessert business, they’re in the coffee business, they’re in the whatever the next trend du jour is.
12:05.27
Burney Jennings
Right.
12:08.55
vigorbranding
how How hard was it for you to stay sort of, ah for lack of a word, true to yourself and just do this this morning, 5.30 a.m. to closing it to?
12:17.24
Burney Jennings
Yeah, so we started out open till eight o’clock at night. We had bone-on chicken.
12:20.36
vigorbranding
Okay.
12:21.92
Burney Jennings
um We added vegetables. and We had a lot of different products. And to make a long story short, from about one o’clock in the afternoon till 5.30, it was pretty much dead.
12:33.71
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
12:33.98
Burney Jennings
And when you’re in the quick service business, people want a great product that’s fresh. And you can imagine how it’s difficult it is to do that when you really don’t have much business between one and 530.
12:41.66
vigorbranding
Yep.
12:49.41
Burney Jennings
And this was before snacking, you know, the snacking concept and the coffee concepts and people, you know, going to a restaurant um in mid afternoon really existed.
12:53.51
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
13:00.21
Burney Jennings
So we dropped that day part, started closing it too. um Our food quality went up, our food costs went down, and our employees were much happier.
13:11.53
vigorbranding
Mm
13:11.84
Burney Jennings
So now we call it when we’re hiring, it’s called life after two. So we use that as a selling point to hire people. Now of course you need to be a morning person. If you’re not a morning person, We’re not a good place. We’re not a good place for you. um You definitely need to be a morning person. um So that means I’d say the majority of our management team is geared towards closing it to being at home with their family, having worked out if they do have a family who’s going to take care of those kids in the morning so they can be there in the afternoon.
13:37.79
vigorbranding
hmm.
13:46.54
Burney Jennings
It’s a big decision staying open later and how many people are you going to lose because that’s not what they signed up for.
13:46.59
vigorbranding
Yeah.
13:53.07
vigorbranding
That’s right. And that’s very smart of you to look around the corner because let’s face it. I mean, I love that that life after two. I think that’s super smart. I mean, and again, I say this because knowing you for a while, I could tell that like company culture, you treat everything like family and that whole life after two plays right into that.
14:06.26
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
14:08.75
vigorbranding
So it’s not a It’s not another gimmick or it’s not a, well, we you know we got we got to worry about our employees. It’s something you’ve always done.
14:14.95
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
14:15.45
vigorbranding
and and Candidly, I think that’s reflected in the quality of the product. you say you The biscuits are made with love. I think that’s what you know people sign up for this life after two and they’re they’re’re they’re dedicated to you and your brand and the family. i think that’s ah I think that’s very commendable and something I think people try to build or create later, but you’ve always sort of had that incorporated, haven’t you?
14:36.98
Burney Jennings
Right.
14:38.19
vigorbranding
So, okay, three quarters of your sales come from drive-through customers. That’s in line with most of the fast food industry, which is around 70.
14:41.54
Burney Jennings
Yes.
14:45.17
vigorbranding
Last year you opened your first drive-through only location. Do you see a lot of potential for more drive-throughs? Is that like maybe the future? ah Or is it still in the test and learn phase?
14:56.76
Burney Jennings
Yes, in the test and learn phase, um we opened up eight restaurants last year. All of them had a dining room, except for that one. That is a test location. And then the next eight, we were planning on the the dining room. We found the dining room does add to our return on investment. And we got 25% of our guests coming in into the dining room. Now, about 10% of them are taking it to go, but another 15 are staying in the dining room. So we see it as something here to say, here to stay.
15:24.63
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
15:27.23
vigorbranding
Okay. Good. Good. So what do you think? What’s the best thing on your menu? Other than the biscuit? I think that’d be the obvious answer.
15:33.01
Burney Jennings
ah my my favorite is so My favorite is sausage, egg, and cheese with sc with scrambled egg.
15:34.25
vigorbranding
What do you think?
15:37.33
vigorbranding
Oh, there you go. ah Perfect.
15:39.76
Burney Jennings
You know, our our sausage is made by Swaggerty. It’s a third, and I think getting ready to go on a fourth generation family business out of Servirville, Tennessee, which is right by Dollywood.
15:46.88
vigorbranding
Wow.
15:50.29
vigorbranding
Uh huh.
15:50.62
Burney Jennings
um And, you know, I didn’t mention it early on, but we really strive to go with local companies first. And if we can’t be local, We want them to be family business doesn’t always work out that way, but you know a fourth generation family business for our sausage, a third or fourth generation for baking bacon coming out of um Ohio. um yeah Our helm is made locally you know in Wiltsboro. Um, yeah, it’s that, that local or family is really important.
16:21.46
Burney Jennings
Oh, and we decided community coffee about three years ago and they’re in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
16:25.31
vigorbranding
Very cool. Yep.
16:28.26
Burney Jennings
Great, great family business.
16:30.10
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Very cool.
16:31.05
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
16:31.56
vigorbranding
Well, you know, it’s like, you you know, some of the things are like the shift to drive-throughs and then, you know, take out.
16:38.39
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
16:38.47
vigorbranding
And, you know, I mean, that, that happened. COVID really, you know, moved a lot of that along fast. You know, like we see things like Pizza Hut’s practically eliminating dine in, but it really feels like the Biscuitville brand and just sort of the way you feel about family and the folks. It feels like the dine-in is here to stay as far as Biscuitville, right? i mean that’s like It feels like that’s a it’s a really integral part of your brand and and your your brand promise and the the love, the fresh and all that kind of thing.
16:58.74
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
17:05.66
Burney Jennings
No, it is. Yeah. Have no, no, no plans on changing it. And even it you when we look at this drive through only um test, that’s a concept that we would put on a smaller site where we couldn’t fit a restaurant with a dining room, but we want, we definitely wanted to be in that market.
17:27.96
vigorbranding
Yeah, that makes total sense.
17:28.74
Burney Jennings
So we we to to us, that’s an add-on, not a replacement.
17:29.00
vigorbranding
and Yeah, absolutely.
17:32.16
Burney Jennings
but Yes.
17:33.48
vigorbranding
So you’ve got more than 70 locations, as you mentioned, in the Carolinas and Virginia, which is ah a lot of restaurants in a, I’ll say not a small area, but a tight, tight, tight footprint.
17:41.34
Burney Jennings
Right.
17:43.47
vigorbranding
All of your locations are company owned, no franchisees. ah That gives you a lot of control of the brand, the product. and But does does that does that limit growth for you as well? And talk about the the idea of not franchising versus franchising and the benefits.
17:57.73
Burney Jennings
Sure, let’s go with the first one, the growth. ah We just moved into South Carolina two years ago and that’s a big part of our growth.
18:04.29
vigorbranding
Nice.
18:07.28
Burney Jennings
um are Three years ago, all of our restaurants were within the two-hour drive of Greensboro, North Carolina, which is our headquarters. Now we’re in about a three and a half hour drive. So we just opened up in Columbia, South Carolina, in Florence, in Harpsville, and one in Neuber, North Carolina. um The growth rate is limited. I mean, the being company owned limits your growth rate.
18:31.08
vigorbranding
Mhm.
18:31.28
Burney Jennings
We don’t have an unlimited supply of cash and equity to grow. So you can only grow as fast as the money that you’re borrow able to borrow or the money you’re able to put into it.
18:36.86
vigorbranding
Right.
18:44.16
vigorbranding
Right.
18:44.52
Burney Jennings
um You could certainly grow faster having private equity come in and buy a big stake, but just not interested in going down that path.
18:48.70
vigorbranding
Mhm.
18:53.37
Burney Jennings
another growth Another way to grow faster is the franchising model, something I have zero experience with. We may do that one day, but right now um where we want to own it and control it, and you mentioned it earlier, we feel like it gives us a lot more control over um the operations piece.
19:16.52
vigorbranding
I think it does and I think that, and um look, we have a lot of brands that are franchised and it’s great and they’re smart business models, but but just again, going back to like how you feel about it. And you know, you said your biscuits, I love it. In the be beginning, they’re made with love. Well, there has to be an extreme amount of control there. So you’re not willing to just ship them out and into through a delivery service for quality sake.
19:35.75
Burney Jennings
right
19:40.16
vigorbranding
You’re not willing to just sell your your your brand to other people and put it in their hands you know with the fear that maybe it won’t be up to the to your standards. I think there’s a whole lot of ah things that you’re doing or you’re choosing not to do that are actually making you successful. I think that’s really commendable.
19:55.96
Burney Jennings
yeah but Thank you.
19:55.98
vigorbranding
I think it’s very difficult to do because you know business is business, right? And like you know it’s about it’s about revenue and growth and all that. So I commend you for kind of sticking to your guns, if you will, and and doing things the way you do it. um So yeah last year Biscuit Fills voted best fast food breakfast in the u and in a USA Today readers poll. that’s That’s huge and congratulations on that.
20:16.39
Burney Jennings
right Thank you.
20:17.83
vigorbranding
So we’re seeing a lot of the fast food breakfast wars and and they’ve been raging for a long time. Everyone’s kind of getting into it ah and the that’s a huge win for you. do you what What do you attribute that to that win? So you’re up against all this competition. You guys are voted number one.
20:32.80
Burney Jennings
Yeah, for us, um in fact, every now and then I’m talking to somebody and they get us confused with Chick-fil-A. And by the way, we’re not Chick-fil-A. It’s a different concept, but they go they think we’re closing on Sundays.
20:46.25
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
20:46.27
Burney Jennings
it’s yeah we are we’ve put us We have worked hard to put us into a premium QSR category.
20:54.35
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
20:55.03
Burney Jennings
So when we look at how we compare ourselves, certainly we’re comparing, um we do competitionensation competition shopping with Chick-fil-A, Bojangles, McDonald’s, and Hardee’s.
21:07.89
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
21:07.96
Burney Jennings
And those are really the core ones in our market. But when we look at our pricing and the quality of the ingredients we’re using, We want to make sure we’re using better ingredients than they are. Now, granted, an egg is an egg is an egg. you can’t yeah You can’t do anything different there, but you can do something different with your bacon, with your sausage, with the, you know, using a center cut ham. um yeah the The chicken, like our chicken, is the Springer Mountain Farms label, which is what you see in high-end restaurants.
21:36.08
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
21:42.29
Burney Jennings
It costs us more money, but that’s important to us because we think it’s a better product. And when you yeah when you have what we think, really which we know is a better product, you gotta charge a premium price for that. So when we look at our pricing, it’s not gonna be the same. You put our pricing up against any of the people we competition shop with, I tell our folks, it better be higher. It better be more expensive because we’re spending more money than they are putting that product in front of the guests.
22:04.64
vigorbranding
Right.
22:10.85
vigorbranding
Absolutely. so we’re like ah There’s obviously a consistent thread here as far as quality. ah Working with family-owned businesses.
22:18.86
Burney Jennings
Yes.
22:19.09
vigorbranding
ah you know i’ll say so I’ll say smaller types of companies. how Where did that come from? i mean like Is that all you? i mean Was that something instilled by your father? Where did that sort of dedication to, I’ll say family, quality of life for your employees, and and and and clean ingredients and and and and the like, where did that all come from?
22:39.35
Burney Jennings
Yeah, I’ll give a, it’s a two-part answer. One, on the you know ingredient side, we did some research about 10 years ago, and it was internal and external. And it what we found, and it was just by chance, being a smaller chain and local chain, We had, by chance, been dealing with family-owned businesses and local businesses, and many of our customers knew that, but we didn’t play on it. ah like We didn’t point it out, and we said, wait a minute.
23:16.79
Burney Jennings
This is something if our customers know about it and care about it, there’s probably some who don’t know about it but do care about it. So we we made that part of our strategy on a go-forward basis to really focus on local businesses first and family owned businesses second. And then the second um is is the how we treat our people. I think that’s what you were asking in how we operate in our business.
23:42.88
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
23:47.78
Burney Jennings
Part of that is being a family businesses. I truly believe family businesses approach business and how they treat people different than public companies and different than private equity. So in part of it was my upbringing from my parents on how you treat people and treating people with respect and treating people how you want to be treated. So my team kind of knows this if there’s ever a dilemma when it comes to the people. but be yeah so How do you, if this was you how do you, how would you like to see the answer?
24:19.95
vigorbranding
right
24:20.20
Burney Jennings
And sometimes it’s financially, I mean, it hurts us financially, but it I think we benefit in the long run. So, you know, I try not to be penny wise and pound foolish in making those financial decisions.
24:31.67
vigorbranding
yeah
24:34.34
vigorbranding
I have a strong constitution when it comes to that. I think I really commend you on it.
24:37.00
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
24:37.76
vigorbranding
I think that’s wonderful. um You know, so you’re also voted best regional fast food chain. ah There’s a lot of Southern fast food chains that wanted to win that.
24:46.13
Burney Jennings
Yes.
24:47.59
vigorbranding
Can you talk a little bit about that? Who the competition might have been and you know, why, why, why do you think that you you guys were picked?
24:54.29
Burney Jennings
um you know There were several big operators who the competition might have been, um and I think they’re really good operators, and I’ve already you know i’ve already mentioned them.
25:02.52
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
25:07.43
Burney Jennings
um They got some great franchisees, McDonald’s, Bojangles, Hardee’s, Chick-fil-A.
25:07.67
vigorbranding
Yep.
25:13.23
Burney Jennings
They’re all really, really good competitors and operators. um You know, for us, I think we are able to different differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close it too. And we’ve already talked about that, but people know breakfast is our focus. And I think when you have that type of focus, it does put you ah in a better position to compete in that space.
25:40.12
vigorbranding
amen and you know I’ll say on that focus, and I you know i know that i think you kind of answered this in a different way earlier, but I can’t help as ah as a marketer and an entrepreneur. i mean you know I have one marketing firm that does restaurant marketing, and I have another another marketing firm that does CPG, food and beverage, right two different companies. and you know you think well they are In my mind, they are very different because you know a restaurant is a retail business that just happens to sell food and beverage. and I don’t mean that to take that lightly, but CPG is you know is what it is.
26:06.40
Burney Jennings
Right.
26:10.39
vigorbranding
it’s ah It’s branded food that is sold at at retail, usually at a gro obviously grocery store. so ah Different businesses, different business models, they just happen to both be food and beverage.
26:16.09
Burney Jennings
Right.
26:20.65
vigorbranding
I’ve been seeing over the years a lot of crossover and you you know we have mutual friends that have restaurants on one side, but then they’ve taken their they’re they’ their primary item and they’ve moved it into the grocery chain. And I got to think with with the with the brand that you have at Biscuitville and the reputation, that if if you could figure out a way to package up those biscuits and get them in a grocer’s freezer, I gotta think that’s a home run.
26:44.98
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
26:47.04
vigorbranding
But can you talk a little bit about that? I have a feeling it goes back to, like you were saying, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. So can you talk a little bit about that? Have you thought about that? Or is that maybe something on the horizon?
26:57.12
Burney Jennings
If it’s not on the horizon, we have put very little thought into it. It does go back to yeah know the freshness of the product and how it would reflect on the brand. We may do that one day and you know it may be, um you know doing we have we have party biscuits.
27:11.41
vigorbranding
Hm.
27:15.09
Burney Jennings
yeah We used to call them silver dollar. They’re just small biscuits that you’d see third on a platter or passed around around at a party. Something like that would be really good in my opinion, for yeah a freezer section in a grocery store.
27:29.85
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you see like ah some of the guys that, the you know, some of the folks have done parbake. So ah instead of it being like, for lack of but a better word, just a frozen ingredient built product, they’ll they’ll they’ll go so far as to, you know, partially bake it and then freeze it.
27:41.28
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
27:46.77
vigorbranding
And I think that makes one heck of a ah lot better, fresher product. And so
27:50.44
Burney Jennings
yeah
27:50.83
vigorbranding
there there might That might be ah an opportunity for you. And hey, look, far bring it for me to tell you how to make biscuits. That’s the last thing I’m going to do. But from a marketing standpoint, I mean, boy, I got to tell you, I think you have such a great brand. And it comes down to just because of the fortitude and and really focusing on a ah breakfast segment, the biscuit, a time frame, fresh and making it with love that I think is
28:06.90
Burney Jennings
Yeah. Right.
28:12.43
vigorbranding
Well, that’s what makes great brands. So I think I think that’s awesome.
28:14.41
Burney Jennings
Yeah.
28:15.70
vigorbranding
So I mean, you know, before we go here, like what’s what’s next for Biscuitville? What else? What else? you you For lack of a better word, cooking up. Is there new locations? Are you moving into any new areas? What would what excites you? what’s What’s going on at Biscuitville?
28:29.14
Burney Jennings
You know, it’s the growth. We were a very slow growth company. I wouldn’t call us a fast growths growth company, but the new markets is where we’re focused. You know, South Carolina ah moving into Greenville next year, you know, just expanding in that South Carolina market is really important to us.
28:38.95
vigorbranding
Awesome.
28:48.30
vigorbranding
Yeah that’s excellent and you know I’m a big trends guy I mean you know at Quench we do the food and beverage trends and the restaurant trends I’ve been doing it for I think it’s like 17 years now and I will say I mean you know that that focus
28:48.35
Burney Jennings
Hope to get to Georgia one day, but that’s a good five or six years down the road. Yeah.
29:09.19
vigorbranding
on a product and a focus on a day part. And if just the overall, again, the Constitution you have and the focus that you have and the fortitude you have is what makes brilliant and great brands. So I commend you for it. You check a lot of boxes. I’ll tell you as far as what’s on trend, what consumers want. And I think that’s that’s ah very, very admirable. So I guess keep up keep up the great work.
29:29.37
Burney Jennings
Thank you.
29:31.24
vigorbranding
so So now I have to have a good
29:31.64
Burney Jennings
Thank you, Michael. But you know, hell ah you know, um I do read your material and Quench does a really good job at the market research. I love the presentations you do. They’re exciting, they’re engaging, and they are full of a lot of tidbits of information that I can walk away with. So you guys do a great job with that.
29:51.36
vigorbranding
I appreciate you saying that. That’s very kind. Now before I let you go here, I have one last question. I’m going to, you know, you can’t say one of your biscuits. So it’s got, you got it. I’m going to steer you off your biscuits, right? You don’t have to mention any other brands, but if you had one final meal, What would you eat and why?
30:05.37
Burney Jennings
Hmm One final meal my wife makes the best pepperoni pizza And I’ve had a lot of pepperoni pizza, especially since you know growing up we had a pizza pizza pizza restaurant um That’s I would say that that’s it
30:07.21
vigorbranding
And maybe even where, if it’s a special restaurant or a special place or whatever else.
30:13.51
vigorbranding
Yeah.
30:22.52
vigorbranding
like ah Pizzaville. Yeah.
30:30.62
vigorbranding
Well, maybe one day.
30:31.37
Burney Jennings
its It’s very simple, pepperoni, cheese, sauce, and a great crust.
30:33.12
vigorbranding
yeah
30:36.69
vigorbranding
We know history repeats itself. So maybe one day there’ll be this thing where, I mean, your grandmother, ah you know, gifted your father the biscuit recipe.
30:45.38
Burney Jennings
Right.
30:46.74
vigorbranding
Maybe one day you’re your wife gifts the pepperoni ah recipe to one of your your your kids and maybe maybe it all comes back around, you know?
30:54.79
Burney Jennings
You never know.
30:56.77
vigorbranding
Pizzaville reborn with with your with your wife’s recipe.
30:57.78
Burney Jennings
That’s right.
30:59.55
vigorbranding
I love it.
31:00.15
Burney Jennings
Right.
31:00.19
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Well, Bernie, you are fantastic as always. I really appreciate your time and thank you so much. And again, congratulations on such a great brand. And again, brands are built on promises. And I mean, your promises of of ah fresh and and love and and all that just really comes through and everything. And that’s that’s it’s very admirable.
31:21.02
Burney Jennings
hi Thank you. Been a pleasure.
31:25.08
vigorbranding
Cool. All right. i think
...more August 01, 2024Ep 85: Ben Jacobs / Chef, founder of Tocabe and Native local pioneer Ben started Tocabe with his friend and business partner Matthew Chandra. Opened in 2008, Tocabe is one of the only restaurants in Denver specializing in Native and Indigenous cuisine and one of only a handful in the United States.
Ben is a tribal member of the Osage Nation of northeast Oklahoma.
Ben also created Seed To Soul, which creates prepared authentic Native American meals for people in need in Native American communities. In Ben’s words, Seed to Soul helps to create and develop a Native food system.
Tocabe was featured on Diners, Drive-In’s & Dives in 2011. Before the appearance, Tocabe was struggling. After the appearance, business “skyrocketed.”
Ben admits that operating a Native restaurant isn’t as easy as a burger or pizza restaurant because the food doesn’t have the built in knowledge and familiarity that other restaurants might have.
QUOTES“Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?’, I don’t know. And that’s the whole point. We’re all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben)
“I always like to say we’re the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it’s not clearly defined.” (Ben)
“When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben)
“We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we’re ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben)
On Tocabe’s appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben)
“For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it’s so spread out, we can’t always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.’” (Ben)
“We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben)
TRANSCRIPT“Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?’, I don’t know. And that’s the whole point. We’re all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben)
“I always like to say we’re the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it’s not clearly defined.” (Ben)
“When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben)
“We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we’re ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben)
On Tocabe’s appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben)
“For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it’s so spread out, we can’t always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.’” (Ben)
“We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben)
...more July 18, 2024Ep 84: Audley Wilson / Shark Tank survivor & Founder of RoboBurger Roboburger is billed as the “World’s First Burger Chef In a Vending Format.” RoboBurger condenses the average kitchen by 99% into just 12 square feet, including refrigeration, heating, ventilation, prep line and cleaning. Burgers are automatically grilled and assembled in under 4 minutes.
Roboburger RoboBurger was invented by Audley Wilson, a data scientist; Dan Braido, a Rutgers PhD grad; and Andy Siegel, a serial entrepreneur. Audley and his team have been working on Roboburger for about five years but Audley’s passion for robotics goes all the way back to his childhood.
Audley has been passionate about robotics and automation from a young age, and one of his teenage years robotics prototypes got him a scholarship at Carnegie Mellon.
RoboBurger was in beta phase up until SharkTank. They launched their first beta location in a dive bar in Jersey City in 2020. They launched an NSF-certified model in 2022. The units now – generation 5 – are UL certified and are launching in locations from Indiana to Missouri.
Future locations for Roboburger machines include colleges, airports and rest stops.
Friends encouraged Audley to take his idea to Shark Tank since the earliest days of the Roboburger process. Shark Tank producers noticed the media coverage about RoboBurger and reached out to Audley in 2022 with an offer to appear. It wasn’t until 2023 that Audley and his team decided the machine was reach for a prime time appearance.
QUOTES“No one ever went bankrupt trying to feed America burgers.” (Michael)
“One of the biggest challenges (with Roboburger) has been the health requirements. Getting that NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge and getting our UL certification on top of that was even more.” (Audley)
“We clean the griddle after every burger. We do heat sanitization every four hours. We’ve actually got our cleaning process certified by a third party.” (Audley)
“(One of our goals is to) make food service accessible for vending.” (Audley)
“People are starting to shift to a higher convenience lifestyle. How can I get what I want, when I want it, wherever I am.” (Audley)
“When you get to Shark Tank, it’s just one go. You’re standing on a carpet. It’s live. There are no cuts.” (Audley)
“Shark Tank was a really interesting experience. I’ve done thousands of pitches over the years, but I’ve never had one (like Shark Tank).” (Audley)
“We’re very happy with the (Shark Tank) deal. Those are exactly the sharks that we wanted to make a deal with.” (Audley)
TRANSCRIPT00:01.57
vigorbranding
Hello there to Fork Tales. Today’s guest is Audley Wilson. Now, typically, I have chefs on. Typically, I have restaurateurs. But today, we have a robotics expert. ah He is a burger expert and founder and CEO of Robo Burger, the world’s first burger chef in a vending machine. That’s right. He makes burgers within a vending machine. He also recently appeared on Shark Tank to pitch his idea to the investors. Audley, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:31.42
Audley Wilson
Well, thank you so much, Michael, for having me on. I’m excited to be speaking with you.
00:36.82
vigorbranding
Awesome. wow You and I got to meet, I think it was a little over a year ago and I i saw you then again in LA and I got to actually not only see you, but I also saw the Robo Burger. So that’s super cool and I i got to test it. I got to have the burger and it was ah it was impressive. So let’s start with some background about rogo Robo Burger. I’m sorry, it’s like a tongue twister. ah Tell us about Robo Burger and how it all got started.
00:58.35
Audley Wilson
hey five times but So, oh man. Well, so it’s a long story. I’ve been working on a robo burger for in this current incarnation for about five years, but I’ve been working on food robotics over the course of my, for my entire life and burger machines for about 20. So, uh, you know, my first burger machine, my first food machine, uh, got me into Carnegie Mellon. Uh, and like, you know, then it was really focused on. residential kitchens, right? So like, how can you make an entire kitchen, fully automated?
01:31.33
Audley Wilson
And yeah so, you know, talk about really ahead of your time. um So like, that was, that was my first machine, and it was really, could do a variety of different meals.
01:34.72
vigorbranding
Right.
01:40.23
Audley Wilson
But really all it can make well is rice and chicken. when Yeah, it’s ah but first i college kid that’s great.
01:44.40
vigorbranding
So, but was that something that you did before? yeah Was that something you did before school? Like before you got into the into Carnegie Mellon or was it a contest or talk about that?
01:51.97
Audley Wilson
Yeah. Yes, I was working on this since ah when I was in high school.
01:56.90
vigorbranding
That’s crazy.
01:57.18
Audley Wilson
So when I was in high school, I was there, so you know, constantly working on this crazy machine because I was like, you know, I got to feed myself in college. So why not just have a crazy machine that could do it? um And but really, one of the challenges was it was trying to do so many things in one machine. So it was a super, super, super complicated. um But yeah, so that was that was what I was working on in high school. um I’ve been making food, ever since I learned, I self taught electrical computer engineer. So when I was like eight years old, my dad started teaching me how to do electronics. And then I was like, this is this is awesome. Took his college textbooks and started going through those. And I was like, you know so I taught myself electronics. And then I was like, well, if I could make motors move and lights turn on, why not make a food machine? I was watching the Jetsons a lot back then.
02:44.85
vigorbranding
Uh huh.
02:44.83
Audley Wilson
um you know, because it was on constant replay back in the 80s. So was it was like, okay, you know, like, I can make, I can make, you know, Rosie goes up to a machine and she enters what she wants. And then she, you know, outcomes as like, you know, ham on a bone or whatever. ah yeah and I wanted to make that machine.
03:03.40
vigorbranding
That is, that’s crazy. That’s it’s wild. And you know I gotta to say, you’re probably the only human being on earth that can say, I’ve been working on a burger machine for 20 years.
03:13.02
Audley Wilson
Yes, taking a little longer than I expected.
03:13.63
vigorbranding
ah but But you’re dedicated your life to the burger machine. I think that’s awesome. I mean, you know.
03:19.72
Audley Wilson
Oh, yes, definitely. um you know In college, yeah when I got into CMU, one of the reasons I got in was actually because of that that’s residential food machine.
03:29.71
vigorbranding
Sure.
03:29.84
Audley Wilson
um and In college, own they CMU was awesome and know they they were able to fund some of my development. I was working on the machine throughout the time period. My junior year, i was I was an entrepreneurship major there, so my junior year I had to start a business. So, that’s when I started my first business, which was actually a restaurant. um So, because I was like, okay, my robot isn’t there yet. um If I actually want to dedicate my entire life to food robotics, I should probably learn how to to cook and how a restaurant works. um So, I started a restaurant, you know, because there’s no simpler way to do that. um
04:03.50
Audley Wilson
yeah But yeah that’s really yeah everyone’s like, that’s a horrible idea. Don’t do this. This this industry is hard. And you know I definitely learned that that’s the case.
04:13.68
vigorbranding
yeah
04:13.75
Audley Wilson
um and But to what it was excellent about that time period is they it ah enabled me to really understand what the problem was that I wanted to solve. um you know the labor What I was facing was massive labor problems, um you know tons of really really long hours that I needed to cover, a lack of consistency between my chefs on the weekend or the the late night shifts, um you know and also the size of the kitchen. right My kitchen took up a large space, like you know how can I make this all smaller?
04:39.33
vigorbranding
Right.
04:43.44
Audley Wilson
And then like you data. There was like no data in my kitchen. I got data really by putting it in at the end of the day, so I didn’t really have that much data back in 2004. So you know that’s that’s what i wanted to solve like how could i just make this that and it like hit me like one night when i was uh when i was closed down my restaurants like wow what if i just like made this a lot simpler to go back to an automated food restaurant that that ma machine i was working on upset focus on commercial. One thing, just the burger, because it’s yeah like’s it’s pretty standardized for the most part.
05:16.00
vigorbranding
Hmm.
05:19.52
Audley Wilson
right you know Top bun, bottom bun, patty, and anything else that goes on in the in the middle there.
05:22.28
vigorbranding
Okay.
05:26.00
Audley Wilson
so like you know It’s consistent. um so yeah I could do one thing over and over and over and over again. and At that time period, I really wanted to like automate the whole back end of a Burger King. but
05:36.58
vigorbranding
Yeah, that’s it’s fascinating. So when you did your restaurant i mean and obviously you summed up everybody’s issues in the restaurant business. I mean, quality of food, consistency, the the labor shortage and just the cost of labor. I mean, you know, ah you’re you’re talking to everybody here and that makes ah that makes a ton ton of sense. um but But just real quick on your on your restaurant, like when you started a restaurant, it was at one location, was it a QSR, was it a focused, it it was it one of those where you focused on just one sort of type of food or one one sort of like like li burgers or a hot dogs or anything like that. Talk talk about that a little bit.
06:11.34
Audley Wilson
Yeah, so I was writing a trend back in 2004. I’m not sure if you remember hookah lounges. They had just came through New York City.
06:17.58
vigorbranding
Sure.
06:19.21
Audley Wilson
So one of my friends dragged me to a hookah bar in LES, you know, checked out the scene. I was like, this is actually pretty cool. This is an experience I haven’t had before. And, you know, it didn’t exist in Pennsylvania at the time. So, you know, I was the first hookah bar in Pittsburgh. um yeah so I opened opened the the concept there at first it was a hookah bar mediterranean tea and drinks and then i then i built out the kitchen myself and with my friends and my fraternity brothers built out the kitchen so went through the whole ah you know process of getting all the like the licenses and everything there so that’s what i learned about the permitting processes which.
06:59.52
vigorbranding
Uh-huh.
06:59.86
Audley Wilson
a big part of our life now. And yeah and then then after that, we turned it into a whole music scene. We had like lines around the block. It was it was pretty cool. um and It was Mediterranean food was the ultimate focus. um Because it was so hard to build out the kitchen, we ended up going all electric um you know using these huge pizza ovens to heat up legs of lamb because we couldn’t do a stack. And that’s really one of those things I think my machine really solves for. you know it’s a vetless solution So you can put it anywhere, just plug it in literally, cleans the air, filters it.
07:27.98
vigorbranding
Yeah.
07:35.57
Audley Wilson
Because they told me it was like 100,000 to put in my vent, ah just just the vent solution.
07:37.84
vigorbranding
Oh, sure.
07:40.66
Audley Wilson
I was like, really, this is crazy. um So I unfortunately limited the options that I had in my my establishment.
07:48.17
vigorbranding
Yeah, and you are obviously a serial entrepreneur. I feel like you you can see something and you can, you know, and it’s not a problem. It’s an opportunity, right? And everyone says that, but I think it’s obvious you’ve executed on that all across the board from evolving your hookah thing to the to the robotics. to If I can do electronics, why can’t I make burgers with it? too I’ve got to eat. So therefore, I should make something that can feed me. It’s pretty crazy. That’s that’s awesome. And you know it just goes to show, I guess, that that that drive and positivity and and the and the willing to have your eyes wide open and and execute.
08:20.60
vigorbranding
That’s the key, execute.
08:21.19
Audley Wilson
All
08:21.52
vigorbranding
And I think it’s awesome. So I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, but I’m really i’m really impressed by all that you’ve done.
08:26.79
Audley Wilson
right.
08:27.36
vigorbranding
It’s really, really super cool. So, okay, we’ll get to Robo Burger here.
08:29.93
Audley Wilson
go
08:31.40
vigorbranding
Now, why why not pizzas? why and but eat Why not hot dogs? Why not chicken wings? Why why burgers?
08:37.09
Audley Wilson
Yeah, again, it’s the standardization. um One of the hardest parts of food machines and in general, when I’ve been building them, has been dispensing the ingredients, right? So, you know, if you have like too wide a variety of ingredients, then it could be like challenging. um But really, I love burgers. ah Back in the day, I was eating probably about five burgers a week. um yeah know So it’s pretty ah pretty high pretty high percentage of burgers.
09:07.61
Audley Wilson
um and you know And I think they’re really the design of it. I love the sandwich. yeah It’s like ah the perfect meal on the go.
09:14.05
vigorbranding
Yep.
09:16.30
Audley Wilson
You know you could grab it. You could take it in your car. I think it’s just a very convenient form of of heating yeah what I think it’s a little more sloppy.
09:25.77
vigorbranding
Well, look, yeah and no one’s ever going to, yeah no, no, one I don’t think anyone ever go really bankrupt trying to feed America burgers.
09:28.80
Audley Wilson
yeah
09:33.69
vigorbranding
Cause I mean, that’s definitely, uh, it’s definitely on the forefront of, uh, I think America’s palette for, uh, uh, for a lot of reasons, but.
09:34.35
Audley Wilson
Yeah.
09:40.37
vigorbranding
So, but like, okay, vending machines, they’ve been around for a while as far as food, hot food, but obviously pre-made and, you you know, soggy thing, not necessarily good for sure.
09:49.14
Audley Wilson
yeah
09:50.50
vigorbranding
ah You know, what what were some of the challenges with putting the process into a 12 square foot box? And talk about the process of your burger because it is not just you know, ah just reheated. It’s not just a microwaved pre-made sandwich. I think maybe that might be even a drawback. Maybe people might think, well, geez, this is probably what this is, but it’s not. It’s it’s it’s made fresh.
10:10.34
Audley Wilson
Yeah.
10:11.16
vigorbranding
So can you talk a little bit about that and then some of the um some of the challenges?
10:15.55
Audley Wilson
Yeah, throughout this journey, I’ve been blessed to have two really good co-founders, Andy Siegel and Dan Bredo. Dan was my CTO. hes Me and him went to Carnegie Mellon together. So he’s really been faced with having to conquer these insane hurdles of really taking an entire commercial kitchen and putting it into 12 square feet um and getting and NSF and UL certified as such.
10:30.03
vigorbranding
Thanks.
10:40.26
Audley Wilson
um So you know one of the biggest challenges, again, was ah you know the, you know, all the health requirements, right? You know, getting that and NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge, and then getting our UL certification on top of that was even more. You know, you always hope that there is some governing body that is ultimately saying, is this good is this safe and am I going to die by eating this? what these these um These groups are there for, um you know, their standards really have pushed us to the next level in making a much better, safer um thing, but ultimately the the ah challenges are or great. um So some of them, you know was you know, most vending machines start with food in a pre-packaged container and they stay there the entire time.
11:30.83
vigorbranding
Mmhmm.
11:31.17
Audley Wilson
hours actually starts in a package. We open the package, dispense the part, the components from there, close those packages, then cook and assemble everything and then put it into a second, into a final packaging. So, you know, due to that, the food touches, you know, food touching zones for all the chefs out there, you know, obviously everything needs to be cleaned. You know, so how do you actually cook? So we, like I guess you could go through the cooking process for ah listeners who don’t know how this machine works. So Roamer Burger, when you after you’ve done ordering what you like on the screen and paying, it’s going to then take a frozen patty out of the freezer, put it onto a griddle, and cook it on both sides.
12:14.66
Audley Wilson
While that’s cooking, it’s going to dispense buns from the toaster into the toasters from our sealed dispensers, and and then start toasting those. Once the buns are toasted, it’s then going to grab a box, put the buns into the box, add the chosen condiments, get the patty, and then get grab go over and get cheese a layer of cheese on top, and then go out to the user and where the user will see it come out, and then the clamshell box will close. So that’s ultimately the process. That’s our our patented procedure for making a burger.
12:46.19
Audley Wilson
um We have five patents there. So those are like we have five different inventions. um First one is the oven system, the way we actually cook it on a griddle.
12:50.62
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
12:55.89
Audley Wilson
yeah So that like yeah we’re actually cooking that. Making it really you know, you really get to the char we really you know, it’s the same way you would want a patty cooked the toasters or another patent that we had because ultimately we had to toast the but toast the bun and also perfectly dispense it our first burger machine back in 2019 that we put that we we were we put live in Andy’s Bar in Jersey City it would flip the buns half the time like ah
13:26.69
Audley Wilson
ah Every time, just with the buns half the time. It was, it was, it was the worst. We called it a lucky burger because they just kept it. But it was like, we were always lucky. It was horribly unlucky with the the buns.
13:36.98
vigorbranding
Mm
13:38.74
Audley Wilson
It’s, you know, but that’s the thing, you know, these simple, these products are very soft and delicate, you know, the bun.
13:43.78
vigorbranding
hmm.
13:44.11
Audley Wilson
um And you actually have to get it there right side up every single time. um And, you know, every, everyone’s, everyone is used to having a burger but prepared one way. So, you know, if it’s ever done wrong. um The next, next patent we had was our dispenser, which is actually what holds all these, uh, these a bench, all these, uh, the buns and the top on the bottom button and the paddy sit in different dispensers. So that was a real challenge because, you know, the buns are soft. Um, sometimes, sometimes things can stick. How do you actually you know dispense it every single time? Um, so that was a huge challenge for us.
14:20.49
vigorbranding
Mmhmm.
14:20.83
Audley Wilson
every Every step was just huge hurdles, but my team must have a really good team, people really solving these problems. it The list just keeps going, but you now now everything is really down to the hardware mechanisms have been perfected, and now we’re getting to do some really, really cool things on the software side, which is really exciting.
14:42.88
vigorbranding
Yeah, very cool. And it is amazing because, excuse me, the the the the burger is grilled and it’s not just nothing. And that’s the thing, I guess I wonder that that you have to not not overcome, but I think people would just assume because why wouldn’t you that, oh, it’s pre-made, pre-packaged, it’s in a microwave and that’s not it at all. And in fact, I’ll say, I’ll give some plugs here. You know, um Quench, our agency does CPG, food and beverage. ah We started in Pennsylvania and your buns are Martin’s potato rolls, which are very famous here in Pennsylvania, and they are making their rounds around the country, and it’s a really quality product. And and I think Heinz Ketchup is what you’re using too, another Pennsylvania brand.
15:19.59
Audley Wilson
Yeah, so yeah, yeah we love Heinz. The machine that you know has these Heinz bagged products in it. So pretty much all of our condiments start in the Heinz bags and then they get stayed sealed throughout the entire system and that’s like one of those big tests that they also make sure.
15:37.29
vigorbranding
Yeah.
15:37.29
Audley Wilson
How do you actually clean these lines? Have you guys ever had a beer line in your in your restaurant? right Lines are the worst.
15:41.48
vigorbranding
Yep. Yep.
15:42.87
Audley Wilson
You got to clean them.
15:44.02
vigorbranding
That’s right.
15:44.03
Audley Wilson
So like you know the machine also has like automatic processes to clean our condiment lines and systems like that because Every line is a problem um if you don’t have an actual cleaning solution.
15:54.10
vigorbranding
Yep.
15:54.22
Audley Wilson
So a machine will automatically do soap, sanitizer, hot water. It has built-in hot water heater. Pretty much, we have as many many things that you could possibly fit into 12 square feet. um and you you know Everything that you would expect to be in your in a restaurant is inside of this.
16:12.20
vigorbranding
Yeah, and candidly, there’s there’s there’s there’s ah I mean, you guys are cleaning after every burger. So we hear about health inspectors. We hear about, oh, don’t go back in their kitchen, you know about restaurants. Oh, boy, you don’t want to see what it looks like back there. But you guys are actually cleaning after every every burger. and and and and you know and and So the the sanitation part of this thing, the the health part of this thing is like first, foremost, and and extremely well thought out.
16:27.01
Audley Wilson
Yeah.
16:37.05
vigorbranding
Is that correct?
16:38.22
Audley Wilson
Yeah. 100%. You know, that’s been, uh, from the very beginning, it was like, you have to get the and NSF certification. Otherwise we can’t do this. We have to be able to really scale this across the country. Um, you know, in the and NSF, you know, that blue sticker that says and NSF, that was our goal from the beginning.
16:51.00
vigorbranding
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
16:53.73
Audley Wilson
um So, you know, like we clean off clean the the griddle after every burger, we do heat sanitization after every four hours, we do every day, it does a the daily soap, sanitizer, hot water treatment, you know, the three bin sink that you, you know, obviously required by the health department, um we do that process. And we’ve actually gotten our cleaning cleaning procedure certified by a third party. um like, you know, after you months and months and months of usage and doing the cleaning process, you know, in like, indetectable levels of microbes. So, you know, we did the whole culture growth and everything. My, Dan, he’s a PhD, so it’s been ah insane to have him on, you know, fighting this battle because he’s
17:37.98
Audley Wilson
yeah He’s really been leading the charge. We’re actually going to the American ah the Association of Food and Drug Officers’ Apto conference next week to present the machine to all of the health the big health officials around the country because you know we’re we’re we’re not we’re we’re not shy now to show what we’ve done because it’s it’s been challenging to get here, um but it’s pretty cool.
17:54.22
vigorbranding
Very cool.
18:01.29
vigorbranding
Yeah, ah yeah you should be you should be incredibly proud. and You know, you always are smiling and you’re always laughing. and I can only imagine how many obstacles you faced. And so you you’re you have the perfect attitude as ah as an entrepreneur because you’re you’re willing to smile and figure out the next thing. And that’s that’s ah that’s a gift. It sounds obvious, but boy, it’s so hard. And yeah, yeah.
18:21.34
Audley Wilson
Oh man, yeah, those was hard days where it’s just like, you’re just like, you go home, you’re like, I don’t even know how we’re gonna, I don’t know how to put a smile on the face.
18:28.18
vigorbranding
Yeah.
18:29.13
Audley Wilson
it And then you go in the next day, it’s like, gotta kick, gotta kick ass today to enter.
18:32.63
vigorbranding
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s absolutely right. All right. So you opened up your first row robo burger pop up in Jersey city in 2022.
18:36.44
Audley Wilson
Yeah.
18:39.98
Audley Wilson
yeah
18:41.01
vigorbranding
How many locations you have now and then where do you see your machines being successful?
18:45.62
Audley Wilson
Yeah, so it’s been we’ve been in the beta period up until Shark Tank. so That was actually when we had pulled our our machines for all of our beta machines from the market. so First, we and we actually launched our first um unit to the market in 2020. That was in that that dive bar in Jersey City.
19:00.78
vigorbranding
Okay.
19:03.87
Audley Wilson
Then in 2022, we introduced our and NSF certified Mark II generation Two model to the mall and then we then after that we went to a pilot flying J and a couple other locate in the college in Queens and a couple of the locations um to you know, just perfecting the technology getting up to the next levels and then now we just got our and NSF or UL certification for our generation five units and those are the units now we’re rolling into the market.
19:28.50
vigorbranding
Mm hmm. Hmm.
19:33.91
Audley Wilson
So we have ah we we just launched our first units like a month ago into the market in ah in a business in a business and a business location with Pfizer. And now we’re and we’re launching with Penn Entertainment some casinos. in Pennsylvania they’re who are actually launching in their location in Indiana and then in their location in St.
19:51.77
vigorbranding
Mmhmm.
19:57.67
Audley Wilson
Louis this month and then next month we’re launching with another location for that same business and then machines after machines so going into a bunch of airports in terms of where we see the best bits you know convenience It’s really like where we are the the kitchen for convenience, both unattended retail as well as the traditional convenience store. So we we really are we really are looking forward to working with partners there. Bending, obviously. Bending partners, who we’re now able to
20:32.03
Audley Wilson
Make food service accessible for vending, which has really never been the case before. Food service previously was always prepared food, and distribution just dropping it onto to a cold case. and Now we’re talking about real food service, you know being able to offer their customers a higher so higher level solution. airports. We’re going into Orlando, MCO, and we’re going to be going into a few other airports throughout the country when our partners in the travel hospitality industry. And, you know, we’re excited to go into a few colleges.
21:05.70
vigorbranding
Sure.
21:06.61
Audley Wilson
Hopefully our album amount is over the course of the next few months. So I’m just really excited to start getting this technology out there.
21:11.14
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Well, it makes sense. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. You know, it’s kind of interesting because, ah you know, candidly, I was watching the your episode of Shark Tank, and we can talk about that. yeah But when I was watching, I was watching with my wife, and my you know, my wife’s smart.
21:23.90
Audley Wilson
you
21:26.40
vigorbranding
She’s like asking questions like, yeah do you really need um a vending machine that serves burgers? She was impressed by how fresh it was and all that. and i said to her i said well but like Someone did the first vending machine for a soda. and At the time, you could get a soda at your house, you get a soda at a grocery store, you get a soda probably at a convenience store. so There’s plenty of places to get a soda. Why did you need to build a refrigerator, put it somewhere? and and When you think about it from that perspective, i mean it probably seemed a bit outlandish and maybe almost unnecessary But yet, let’s face it, ah soda vending machines are huge.
21:58.43
vigorbranding
So why not burgers? why i mean it makes total When you look at it from that perspective, I think it makes total sense.
22:00.66
Audley Wilson
Indeed.
22:02.65
vigorbranding
Because again, to your point, like colleges or airports, there’s people that want to have a decent, ah you know a good quality food experience, and places aren’t open. And especially now after COVID, there’s so many issues with employees and you know cutting down hours and and and all of that that you you’re you’re actually answering. You’ve been working on the solution to a problem that probably has been exacerbated over the last couple of years. you know it’s a
22:27.50
Audley Wilson
Yeah. it It’s interesting as well.
22:28.14
vigorbranding
so
22:29.57
Audley Wilson
Think back to like even like 2000, like there were so many more cafeterias, like, you know, in every business that was open, c catering to the office.
22:34.22
vigorbranding
Right.
22:38.83
Audley Wilson
Obviously there’s more work from home now, which has sort of caused a sort of shift, right?
22:40.66
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
22:43.75
Audley Wilson
So people have gone from like these, the cafeterias and people sort of moving back into this unattended retail.
22:46.82
vigorbranding
Right.
22:50.78
Audley Wilson
Vending solution. Um, you know, so going back to the world where the the automat was a solution, right? You know, so if you think back about that back in the 50s, there was the automat Um, so I think people are really starting to shift back to this high high convenience, right? How can I get what I want when I want it wherever I am? um And at the same time businesses need to handle for the fact that there’s ah you know, there’s less labor out there um at ah significantly higher rates than it was yeah I’m thinking back to minimum wage when I had my restaurant in 2004 was six dollars six dollars an hour
23:22.47
vigorbranding
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
23:25.27
Audley Wilson
I’m like, wow, I can’t even imagine. so you like having like you know I had 20 people. like I can’t imagine having that many people in a tiny small business with today’s minimal wages and increased food costs.
23:33.43
vigorbranding
Right. Right.
23:41.09
Audley Wilson
so you know like the The challenges are getting are bigger for the operator than ever. But yeah know by by going to the small unattended footprint, people are able to you know the distribute their costs over multiple locations, and make more money, um and and find new opportunities for growth.
24:01.13
vigorbranding
That’s great. so i mean we We talked briefly about the Shark Tank episode. I think people are really interested because it is ah as an entrepreneur, i mean i like I said, it’s one of those things where I’d sit there and and and focus on. I couldn’t watch it late at night because my brain would be spinning. you know i I loved it trying to figure out the angles. Would I do the deal? If I was selling the idea, how would I sell it? you know Looking at it from a marketing perspective, looking at it from a business perspective, it’s just you know my head’s going to explode. so Talk about that. like did you Did you pitch your idea? Did they come to you? What was the experience like? Did they do run-throughs? Talk a little bit about that and how the whole thing came together. i mean we see you know What do we see? Like 15 minutes, 12 minutes of any segment. um and you know but But what all is in there? i mean how How does that all work? I’d love to hear hear sort of like the behind the scenes a little bit.
24:51.43
Audley Wilson
Yeah. Yeah, I remember when I started working on my burger machine back in the day, you know, Shark Tank had came out and they were everyone was like, you should go on Shark Tank with this idea. So it was crazy to to actually go on Shark Tank eventually. The way it all came about was through, I guess, you know media When we launched our first mission our first Gen 2 machine in the mall here in Jersey, we got 4.4 billion impressions, like 43 million in earned media value.
25:22.69
Audley Wilson
So like we just got so much media.
25:23.32
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
25:24.93
Audley Wilson
um like I remember my wife ah my wife’s mom from Moldova saw us on TV and filmed it and sent us the video in Moldova.
25:30.52
vigorbranding
Mm
25:35.28
Audley Wilson
I was like, wow, this is… And I think that shows that like you know people have a lot of interest in this type of technology, and burgers specifically burgers are completely automated in a vending format.
25:39.48
vigorbranding
hmm.
25:48.13
Audley Wilson
um So that’s when we got the eye of the, I think, Shark Tank team.
25:54.63
vigorbranding
Gotcha.
25:54.68
Audley Wilson
um So at that point they you know they reached out to me back back in 2022. I didn’t even respond because I’m like, there is no way I’m going on Shark Tank with this machine. It is way too early. I need to itate iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate. And then we did probably about 100 more iterations after that.
26:14.76
vigorbranding
wow
26:14.72
Audley Wilson
And then you know a year later, i yeah like i get ah i get a response I get the same email again. It’s like, hey. I was like, wait, hold on. Did I respond the last time? And that’s what I realized. I didn’t respond like, wow, I’m a horrible person. ah hu So like, you know, it’s like, all right, you know what? I think we’re ready. So we responded, then then that pretty much got us into the process. And then we we had to do our practice pitches where, um you know, the producer’s feedback to me was usually around, you know, like every everyone did great, upset oddly, more energy.
26:49.93
Audley Wilson
but So my other two partners, they’re like very photogenic. So they like yeah they they really love being on camera. um but So yeah that was that was ah that was a fun process of you know just trying to you try to actually get nailed the pitch, because you get to practice, or they’re practicing it amongst ourselves um with some of our friends, trying to like, you this is you know this is what we’re, or what do you think about this these lines guys?
26:56.32
vigorbranding
ah
27:14.59
vigorbranding
Mm hmm.
27:15.64
Audley Wilson
um And then, Yeah, but yeah we never when you actually get to Shark Tank, it’s just one go. it’s You get on stage, and you know that youre you’re there that you’re standing on this carpet, and the next, to you know the door’s open, and and it’s it’s live. it’s a the never no no No cuts.
27:36.12
vigorbranding
Got it.
27:36.28
Audley Wilson
you and there you know they The team there is amazing. There’s so many cameras trained on your every move. um they’re you know they’re They’re amazing. um Yeah, it but it was ah it was really it was a really interesting experience. It was, you know, I’ve done thousands of pitches, you know, over the over the years, you know, thousands, but this one was, you know, I never had one. It was, you know, quite the same film where, you know, it’s going to be viewed by everyone and with everyone’s ah full ego and energy and enthusiasm coming for television, you know, in terms of the the judges on the other side. So, you know, it was quite an experience.
28:13.83
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. so So I read somewhere that that entrepreneurs who appear in the show required to meet with a show psychologist afterwards, just to make sure you weren’t beat up too bad or tortured by the experience. Was that true? Did you guys talk to somebody afterwards?
28:24.62
Audley Wilson
That’s 100% true. That’s 100% true. I know, like, everywhere they told us before, it was like, ah that’s weird. And then author words, it was like, it actually was it was nice to talk. Like, we were all very over the moon and excited. So it was nice to, you know, they they really, you know, they’ve been doing it for 15 years.
28:40.86
vigorbranding
Yeah.
28:45.31
Audley Wilson
They know what they’re doing. It’s an impressive of organization.
28:46.60
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure. Hey, and you guys got a deal. Congratulations. I’m sure some people are over there and they’re in the fetal position crying in the corner. You know, like I spent most of my life, bill you know, dedicated to this business and they’re telling me it’s a terrible idea. So, ah but but yeah.
28:58.91
Audley Wilson
You know, at one point, and you you know you you saw the episode, at one point in the middle of the episode, it’s like, wow, that’s good to be me.
29:05.63
vigorbranding
Yeah. Well, my wife said, Oh, they’re not going to get a deal. I’m like, well, just watch. Let’s see. You know? And, uh, you’re, by the way, you said about not being photogenic. I disagree with you, but your, your, your partner, the CMO was hilarious because he got a lot of closeups because in the beginning they were saying some stuff that wasn’t so nice and his eyes are just like, you look like a deer in the headlights. It was awesome. So he made he made for good TV. That’s for sure. That guy’s he’s a character you can tell.
29:26.93
Audley Wilson
yeah
29:28.22
vigorbranding
Uh, but.
29:28.42
Audley Wilson
yeah he’s so He’s definitely a character. He used to be on ah TV commercials back in the day, like Mr. Bubbles and all this other stuff. And and he’s ah you know he he’s is ah quite a character.
29:41.26
vigorbranding
Yeah. And so you you you got in with Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O’Leary and Michael Rubin. So you got a $1.5 million dollars loan at 9%. And are you are you happy with the deal? Have you guys ah gotten any traction?
29:52.16
Audley Wilson
Yeah, we’re very happy with the deal. These are exactly the sharks that we wanted to work with.
29:54.39
vigorbranding
OK.
29:57.73
Audley Wilson
yeah We wanted to we wanted to know work with Mr. Wonderful. We wanted to have him ah up on stage and interacting with the machine. ah And that that was before we found out who the guest shark was going to be.
30:08.71
vigorbranding
Mm-hmm.
30:08.88
Audley Wilson
And it was Michael Rubin. And we’re like, wow, Michael Rubin. That’s really cool. So like you know we ended up getting exactly the sharks that we wanted to do a deal with. two sharks and especially after coming to a point where we thought we were going to have like zero sharks at one point.
30:23.43
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah.
30:23.51
Audley Wilson
is So you it was it was ah was it it was just a it was ah it was a lot of fun um after it was done. It was the most intense 34 hours and but of my life, the most intense 34 hour trip to LA ever.
30:41.85
vigorbranding
Yeah, I’ll bet.
30:41.91
Audley Wilson
um It was just nonstop.
30:44.97
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Okay. So let’s talk back to back on the rubber burger. Can you share some details about what you’re, you’re cooking up for the future? I mean, like, you know, some people want bacon on their burgers. You know, we know the lettuce and tomato thing and fresh vegetable. That can be obviously comp an issue. Can you talk a little bit about maybe some of the decisions you made to do things, not to do things and some potential ideas of what you might do next?
31:00.46
Audley Wilson
Yeah,
31:04.12
Audley Wilson
yeah so so let let’s talk about lettuce and tomatoes first. The reason we didn’t do do lettuce and tomatoes first is Dan would always say is because of E.
31:08.15
vigorbranding
Yeah.
31:13.30
Audley Wilson
coli and some of the challenges there and being able to detect it.
31:13.77
vigorbranding
Hmm.
31:16.27
Audley Wilson
um It actually is just another hurdle for the operator and our goal is trying to reduce hurdles for the operator to be able to deliver road burger to their end consumer. So yeah that’s why we’re not offering it our first first iterations of these units. um In time, we’d like to operate. But actually, the operators that we’ve been working with haven’t been asking for that so much. But we’d love to be able to do it so that we can do more brand partnerships with you some of the bigger fast food companies that are out there that do use lettuce and tomatoes. In terms of bacon, we would like to do bacon.
31:52.30
Audley Wilson
We’re not sure how or when. We definitely want to add it to our lineup. In terms of coming soon, what we’re working towards, we want to be able to make the unit smaller. We want to have a smaller unit that we can even reduce the cost to the operator even more.
32:05.61
vigorbranding
Mm
32:10.34
Audley Wilson
We want to be able to make a bigger unit that can really be able to do really high volume. you If you think about replacing the back end of burger production for any of the big fast food companies. and So we want to be able to go about bigger and smaller while constantly just trying to reduce the cost to the operators that way. Because at the end of the day, like yeah I’m an operator, Andy’s andy’s had ah three restaurants as well.
32:32.35
vigorbranding
hmm.
32:33.68
Audley Wilson
um you like We know how how annoying it is to actually take a portion of your profits out of your pocket to fund X and Y expenses. So we just want to make it lower and lower and lower so that way they can make more money.
32:46.69
vigorbranding
that’s fantastic
32:47.31
Audley Wilson
That’s really where our focuses are on. Um, and, uh, you know, faster, you know, it’s currently takes us about four minutes to make a burger. We like to be able to get more throughput, you know, cause at the end of the day, you know, it’s all, if you’re there, which is multiple people right now, we can, we can spread, if there are multiple machines, we can spread orders across a few, the cluster of units, but you know, we don’t want to be ah that same unit to be able to make burgers two times as fast.
33:11.36
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah. And if I remember correctly, your, your machine currently can hold like 50 burgers, right? Like so, uh, it stacks.
33:17.53
Audley Wilson
Yeah.
33:18.40
vigorbranding
Yeah. So, and I mean, depend obviously depending on how many you sell that someone’s got to come in and then service the machine and, and restock it and everything else.
33:25.40
Audley Wilson
Exactly.
33:26.22
vigorbranding
So yeah, that makes total sense.
33:27.31
Audley Wilson
Exactly.
33:27.63
vigorbranding
So so
33:28.47
Audley Wilson
So in some of the airport applications in the busy or high volume, then yeah what we’re they’re doing is putting multiple machines, two, three, four machines in like clusters and then multiple clusters throughout the locations. So that’s ah really what we’re building towards that world where you have food anywhere, anytime. Because we’ve all been to that airport where yeah um the your flight gets delayed.
33:48.16
vigorbranding
Yeah.
33:50.29
Audley Wilson
You’re there till like 2 AM. m yeah The bar closed down at 8 PM.
33:52.45
vigorbranding
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no doubt.
33:56.34
Audley Wilson
just there waiting
33:57.88
vigorbranding
Yep, I totally, totally.
33:58.23
Audley Wilson
yeah so well
33:59.76
vigorbranding
I’ve experienced it pretty much every week. you know I’m on a plane every week and ah you know every other week umm I’m in a situation similar to that. like When do I eat? When should I get something? What can I get? What’s the quality I can get? you know And then with delays and layovers and canceled flights, you never know when where you’re going to be. So I think it’s i think um it makes a ton of sense. Now, I have a couple of other just really simple questions for you.
34:21.39
Audley Wilson
And you’re just there waiting.
34:21.65
vigorbranding
And I know your burger’s great. I’ve had it. So between, I’ll say, Burger King, McDonald’s, and Wendy’s, who makes the best burger?
34:28.40
Audley Wilson
ah wendy um Wendy’s, Dave Thomas all but all day long, but Shake Shack is definitely my my favorite here as a New Yorker.
34:33.92
vigorbranding
Yeah, right.
34:39.09
Audley Wilson
um yeah I’m a big Shake Shack fan.
34:42.94
vigorbranding
Yeah, I totally and you know what i agree with exactly what you said. I do agree with Wendy’s out of those three. And I i love Shake Shack. I’m a diehard Phillies fan. They have one down outside the stadium or inside the stadium. And that’s that’s usually my go to that or hot dog. Of course, it’s a baseball game. um And, you know, I was at Burger America in New York and who does the smash burger? and ah the Mr. Mott’s and he said he dedicated his life to the hamburger. So you two have a lot in common. You ought to yeah you you ought to connect.
35:07.38
Audley Wilson
Oh, man, yeah.
35:08.79
vigorbranding
He’s a
35:09.12
Audley Wilson
um but i ever I think that’s I’d love to connect to it. another
35:11.99
vigorbranding
Yeah. Yeah. And so now like one final meal, if you have to, you could pick anything other than your burger. I can’t let you just pick your burger, but anything, what would your, yeah what would your final meal be?
35:19.30
Audley Wilson
Oh, definitely. Yeah, let’s see.
35:22.01
vigorbranding
What would it be? And where would you have it? Why?
35:26.91
Audley Wilson
Probably lobster and oysters um on a beach in Jamaica.
35:30.29
vigorbranding
Very good.
35:33.31
vigorbranding
Oh, nice. Well done. I like that. I can, I can picture that. That’s fantastic.
35:37.01
Audley Wilson
Because I’m Jamaican, because I’m Jamaican, and whenever me and my wife are down there, I love love hitting up a nice lobster um but from like the rust, the shack on the beach.
35:41.71
vigorbranding
That’s great.
35:50.49
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. Ollie, you were wonderful. Is there anything else you want to mention about what you’re up to or anything else about the ah Robo Burger?
35:58.65
Audley Wilson
Yeah, well, you know, so right now we’re offering robo burger for sale for the first time really to the general public. Previously, we’ve only been working with like some of the, the biggest players that manage food and, uh, and convenience. So now we’re actually, uh, selling these units.
36:14.19
vigorbranding
Fantastic.
36:14.15
Audley Wilson
So if anybody is interesting in getting their hands on the unit, we’d love to speak with you. Um, come check us out on our website, the robo burger.com th E robo burger.com. Um, and, uh, looking forward to speaking with you.
36:27.91
vigorbranding
Ali, you are awesome. I appreciate your time and I love your passion and congratulations on your success and your fortitude, I’ll say. You just smile and keep going forward. So, I mean, it’s amazing and I’m really, really impressed by what you’ve done. Thank you.
36:41.09
Audley Wilson
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate speaking with you.
36:44.92
vigorbranding
Good deal.
...more June 28, 2024Ep 83: Craig Bernstein / Founder of Doc B’s Restaurant & Bar Craig is the founder of Doc B’s Restaurant & Bar. The restaurant is named after Craig’s late father, “Doctor B,” Doc B’s was first opened in Chicago in September 2013 and is a fresh, casual dining concept. Doc B’s has 10 locations in Chicago, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, and Coral Gables, FL; Austin, Dallas, and Forth Worth, TX.
Craig was inspired to follow a career in the restaurant industry after meeting Morton’s Steakhouse legend Allen Bernstein at a Knicks game. Craig and his dad talked to Allen at his courtside seats and he later formed a mentor relationship with Craig.
Craig interviewed Allen Bernstein for a career report in the sixth grade about being a restaurant owner. Allen would later industry Craig to other restaurant industry leaders.
Doc B’s started as a fast casual restaurant and transformed into a full service restaurant. That shift allowed Doc B’s to offer an elevated food offering and establish a better relationship with customers.
Different layouts of each Doc B’s location provides opportunities for different design elements and features within each location.
QUOTES“(Allen Bernstein) really transformed my life to a certain extent. Allen drove me to pursue a career in the restaurant industry.” (Craig)
“For me, the idea of hospitality and really going above and beyond for every guest was always really innate in the philosophy of our business. That’s why we transferred to full service.” (Craig)
“It’s about slow and steady growth. Not just growing for growth sake. Really trying to get great real estate, grow organically, grow from within and build the team from within.” (Craig)
“I know the last chapter of our book. I just don’t know all the pages between today and then.” (Craig)
“We don’t want to cut costs just to get more bodies inside the restaurant. We want to maintain our integrity, we want to maintain our value on the plate and we don’t want to trim the quality that we offer.” (Craig)
“We’re traveling. We’re in our restaurants. We’re engaging with the team and engaging with guests. We’re doing constant evaluations of the food and service.” (Craig)
“It really comes down to letting the general managers own their business and operate it like it was their four walls.” (Craig)
“What’s fun about my job is you can have a day that’s the easiest day in the world and then you can have another day where nothing is going right.” (Craig)
TRANSCRIPT00:00.60
vigorbranding
Hey there hey I’m really excited today to talk to a guest ah a gentleman I met probably a couple months ago something happened there got an error message you the phone expensive fiction problems. She’s got internet connection.
00:20.20
vigorbranding
It’s still going just gonna let rather than stop it ended I think we’ll just I’ll trim this up so you let’s start over. Okay hi I’m really excited about today’s guest mainly because I love a good origin story. Our guest today is Craig Bernstein he’s the founder of dock be’s fresh kitchen restaurants Craig I really appreciate you joining us today. Um, ah you and I met like ah I don’t know a couple months ago out in l a and I got to talking to you and I just love a good story. So welcome to the show.
00:36.61
Craig
Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for having me Michael and it was great to meet you and share with you. My story and tell you more about it today.
01:00.21
vigorbranding
Sounds great. So you know when I first heard you talk about doc bees. Um I was fascinated by it for 2 reasons. First of all as I said I’m a marker right? So I love a good story. Ah, ah, original stories or or what brands are made of so we have doc bees and also ah you know Doc Bee was your father.
01:11.97
Craig
Um, yeah.
01:18.23
vigorbranding
And my dad was my best friend so the whole thing just kind of fit together for me and I was really ah, really excited. Ah for you to be on here today so can can you tell me tell me a little bit about the whole thing about your dad and and and how this whole thing about the doc bees got started.
01:19.90
Craig
Full I have to go way back way back? Um, you know my father was a doctor um, like you mentioned my last name is Bernstein so Doc B is ultimately where the name for the business came from but um I grew up in New York long island and me my father and I you we you know we used to go to the New York Knickscapes and we had a great you know great experiences going to madison square garden rooting on the knicks in the 90 s Patrick Ewing Charles Oakley John Starks still remember it like it was yesterday. And so if I go into the story about how Doc Bees and the restaurant started. Um, yeah I could go into that detail if that’s what you’d like yeah so so it’s it’s kind of a cool story. So I’m ten years old I’m a middle child I have ah a younger sister.
02:08.55
vigorbranding
It’s awesome.
02:13.75
Craig
Sarah she’s 5 an older brother Jonathan at the time he was 12 and I remember like it was yesterday. My dad calls the house ma we all ran to the phone at that time you actually wanted to answer the phone now when the phone rings nobody wants to answer it and we picked up the phone.
02:14.96
vigorbranding
Yeah I’d love. Yeah, absolutely.
02:31.14
Craig
And my dad says I have 2 kni tickets for tonight’s game and says to my mom who can come and we all we all raised our hand I want to go I want to go and my mom said all right here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna cut straws into a hat. And whoever gets the smallest straw gets to go to the gate. So I can’t imagine my sister by the way 5 was gonna be allowed to go to the Knicks game that late at night but she was included because she always got anything she wanted and so we all picked straws. And I ended up picking the smallest straw and I won to go to the game with my dad so you know I was happy I got to go upstairs and change I remember long story short. it’s it’s raining he drives home from work picks me up. We drive into Manhattan which was always like. Like still just I still remember it so vividly and we get to the garden and I’m thinking we have these great seats see. We’re gonna have a great time and we’re walking up and it just we don’t stop up and up. We have the highest seats in in the whole garden. And you know as I was ten years old it didn’t matter where we were sitting but I wasn’t expected to be in the nosebleed section and so we have a great time I remember at that time there was a restaurant called ranch one and that was like a.
03:57.94
Craig
Chicken finger place and that’s all I ever wanted. It was ranch one chicken fingers and they gave you french fries and they served it in a big cup overflow with fries. So I got my ranch one and during halftime my dad points down to celebrity row which at that time was a. Still is a big deal but it was a big deal spike Lee and Bill Murray and he points down to celebrity where says Craig do you see that guy down there and I said dad we’re so high I I can’t see anything. He says the guy who’s sitting at the courts. That’s my friend.
04:27.86
vigorbranding
Sure and.
04:35.80
Craig
And I sat to him I said well if he’s sitting on the courts I Want to go meet it and he said I don’t know if we’ll make it down in time but let’s try so we hurried downstairs. We try to get to the court before the buzzard you know goes off that halftime’s over.
04:44.31
vigorbranding
Um.
04:52.12
Craig
And we’re we’re blocked by the velvet rope to get through to the very bottom of the court and my dad’s yelling and he’s saying Allen Allen this guy Allen turned around and waves to my dad and ultimately tells the usher. He’s safe. You could let him in. And so I go down and I’m standing on the court of madison square garden and I’m like this is unbelievable. This is incredible. The ball comes to me I catch the ball and I’m just you know just in like all so the you know halftime ends I shake this gentleman Allen’s hand I say thank you so much and. We walk all the way back up to our top row seats you want me to keep going I mean there’s a lita and so we finished the game. We have the best time and the next day Allen calls my dad and he says Rob he says you never told me that.
05:44.23
vigorbranding
Oh yeah, it’s awesome. It’s great.
05:47.52
Craig
Craig was such a precocious young. You know great kid and my dad said well I didn’t know it never came up I forgot to tell you them and so he says I want to give you tickets to the game to take the family and you know you guys can have our seats a couple weeks. Go by. We get the tickets. Keep in mind there’s 5 people to our family three kids and mom and dad and alan from what I was told was the only guy who had 4 tickets on celebrity row. Everybody else had 2 and now this is back in the day so we we go to a restaurant we eat dinner.
06:07.85
vigorbranding
Ah.
06:24.80
vigorbranding
Um.
06:26.27
Craig
And then we go to Madison square garden now remember with 4 Seats my dad puts my little sister on his shoulders and says Sarah pretend like you know they can’t see you and somehow gets us in and 5 of us sat on 4 seats on celebrity row unbelievable. It was like. Those things don’t happen anymore and and so we have an amazing time and the high fiving the players it was it was memorable. Okay, fast forward I’m in the sixth grade the same year that this happened and I have to do a career report.
06:49.20
vigorbranding
But that’s great. Yeah now.
07:01.79
Craig
What do you want to be when you grow up and so I go home and you know one of the things that we were so passionate about as a family is we always had dinner together as a family came around food. Maybe that comes full circle and my I say to my dad I said I said dad I said ah.
07:12.67
vigorbranding
Um.
07:20.82
Craig
Ms Collins gave us a report.. What do you want to be when you grow Up. He says oh do you want to be a doctor like me I said no I said I want to be like the guy who has the tickets at the Nick game. What does that Guy. Do. Oh to make money and so he says well remember that restaurant that we went to before the game I said yeah, he said well he owns that restaurant I said all I fine when I grew up my career report’s going to be restaurant owner and I did the career report and I was 10 and.
07:47.48
vigorbranding
I Want to I want to make money. Yeah.
07:56.70
vigorbranding
Ah.
07:59.17
Craig
I don’t know if that was a good thing or a bad thing but here we are today.
08:06.33
Craig
No relation. Yeah yeah, so I don’t know so he didn’t he didn’t he wasn’t the founder. You know I think Arnie Morton and the morton family founded it but he ultimately became the you know chairman Ceo of the business I think around store 6 or 7
08:16.26
vigorbranding
That’s awesome and of course the report was about ah Alan Bernstein no relation to you it just happens on the same last name and he is the founder of mortons is that correct.
08:25.24
Craig
And you know gruident you know I think the household name that that everybody knows today.
08:30.15
vigorbranding
Ah, okay.
08:33.23
vigorbranding
Yeah, he ran it. Okay.
08:40.51
Craig
Almost goingus. Yeah.
08:41.26
vigorbranding
So you wrote this report that you wanted to be this restaurantauur and we actually had a copy that report in a little bit I’m going to ask you some of the questions that you asked Allen in your report and see if you if you feel that those questions still hold water today if you would answer them differently. Okay.
08:53.39
Craig
Yeah I mean the whole way I mean he really? um you know he he really transformed my life to a certain extent I mean you know I went to Emory University in Atlanta and I started you know business and entrepreneurship and I got into some little groups of.
08:57.68
vigorbranding
Um, so anyway, so the relationship with Alan continues after that meeting he was he was like a mentor to you through your college years is that correct want to talk a little bit about that and that relationship.
09:10.73
Craig
Just you know the entrepreneurial idea when I was in college I worked on a business plan to open a restaurant in emory village and the the concept was called Bernie’s New York Delhi and you know I would float this idea by Alan and other people but I was always pitching you know I mean I always was like.
09:16.55
vigorbranding
Ah.
09:30.32
Craig
Who wants in and as a 20 year old kid. Um, nobody really wanted in I mean a little little you know little bites here and there but but nothing like we were ultimately able to to secure in the future.
09:41.52
vigorbranding
Um, no.
09:44.55
Craig
And so you know Alan really changed my life. You know ultimately I went on to work for Houston’s hillstone restaurant group and you know Alan really drove me to to go pursue that he didn’t have any you know relations or um introductions to make but he did say. You know it’s such a highly regarded bestin class restaurant company and if I could get my foot in the door there. Um, that would really be an incredible foundation to becoming a restaurant manager and ultimately I followed his advice and through that advice. Um. I got into that company and another quick story after I was with Houstons I remember Alllan called me and he said we’re opening up a 5 guys burgers Alllan became a big franchisor of a franchisee of of 5 guys and he said you have to come I said Alan I’m working I can’t he said you have to come you have to come. I drove to this opening of 5 guys in Queens New York and I go when I was there for maybe like 30 minutes and I said I have to go he said just sit down shut up I have somebody coming. You need to meet I said all right fine and so I waited I waited I waited all of a sudden David Overton
10:44.87
vigorbranding
Ah.
10:55.57
Craig
The you know chairman founder of cheesecake factory comes in and I had lunch with Alan Bernstein David Overton Mrs. Overton and we’re eating burgers fries and hot dogs at the opening of 5 guys burgers in queens.
11:08.28
vigorbranding
Yeah.
11:12.50
Craig
And I mean these stories where I share them. They just give me chills I mean nothing came of it except just to hear these industry Titans talk about the restaurant business and these are memories that I’ll never forget.
11:38.18
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic. You know I get to in this podcast I get to talk to a lot of founders. A lot of entrepreneurs which of course you’re one and they always have unique stories and they’re they’re always like um, what’s intriguing to me is a lot of times. They’re not just things weren’t just handed to to you or to them. Or to any of us. There was a lot of hustle involved right? A lot lot of struggle. A lot of lot of grit and I always I love that about the about the industry and about the entrepreneurs side of this I they say it’s super cool I know you know Alan taught you a lot about hospitality. Um, you know and the importance of hospitality in a restaurant you know.
12:04.80
Craig
Well, you know listen we we transformed our business from you know, a more fast casual although it was ah an elevated fast casual experience into a full-service you know, dining atmosphere and.
12:13.42
vigorbranding
And today’s era of of quick service is hospitality dying art.
12:19.43
Craig
You know everything from you know, hostesses up front to full service at at the tables to more expansive bars. Um elevated management teams um team members in the kitchen who could execute a little bit of a higher quality food food offering.
12:38.90
Craig
And so I think for for me and for us the the idea of hospitality and really going above and beyond for every guest experience was always really innate into the philosophy of the business and. So I think that for for us. We were always a little bit more on the elevated side and that’s why we we transferred to the full service I mean we were able to make greater connections be at the tables longer walk guest to tables and really kind of see the thing.
13:03.60
vigorbranding
From here.
13:14.40
Craig
From the start to the middle to the end with this above and beyond um gesture of hospitality and I think that’s really what was like ingrained in me I mean anytime I would ever go to Morton’s with Alan you know it was every dessert on the table. Every appetizer on the table. And even after you had every dessert he was like you gotta try this other one. That’s not yet on the menu and you gotta taste it put Allen I’m full. Ah you could. You could take 1 more bite and that’s really you know how how we how we run the business I’ll tell you 1 quick story about hospitality. Um, you know I was.
13:43.98
vigorbranding
He.
13:51.56
Craig
I started the the first restaurant and died in Chicago in the Gold Coast neighborhood about ten and a half years ago and I was in the restaurant every single day I mean morning tonight and I got to really create amazing relationships with so many spectacular guests as the business has expanded.
14:05.64
vigorbranding
But.
14:09.52
Craig
I can’t be in every restaurant every day and but those connections are everlasting so one day I think it might have been during covid so you know twenty twenty I’m sitting outside and a guest walks into place in order and she recognizes me. She says oh my goodness I haven’t seen you in so long and I’m so proud of you. We were your first guest in this whole thing and she sort of started to tear up and I said what’s the matter she said you know my husband has since passed away and we used to always come here every Friday night. And we would always come here and we would get pizza and we used to serve pizza and and you no longer have pizza and I said oh my goodness I said you know what I’m going to do for you tonight. We’re going to make you a pizza and I was sitting there with my chef and we found you know dough. We made her pizza. And so it’s like you know those types of connections and relationships I mean that’s really why we got into this business in the first place and to make somebody so happy from pizza dough and marinara and fresh mozzarella.
15:17.00
vigorbranding
A.
15:21.29
Craig
You You can’t do that in any other walk of life so to be able to have those types of connections and that type of special relationship. You know I would trade this for nothing.
15:34.50
vigorbranding
Yeah, um.
15:43.32
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah I mean food is love and it’s ah it’s a great way to connect with people and you know a lot of people’s best memories are revolve around food. You were saying earlier about your your family always ate dinner together. It’s sort of a law start unto itself. But.
15:49.28
Craig
Yeah, yeah, big big time.
15:57.17
vigorbranding
It’s just ah, it’s a wonderful part of life and it’s it’s something that you know we we all cherish and it it really does evoke a lot of great memories. That’s for sure So when when you started now you have this full-serce restaurant you really you really weren’t planning on that.
16:05.33
Craig
Yeah, so you know what I worked um so I worked for Houstons and I grew up to become a general manager with them and during my tenure. You know you started to see and this was in the in the sort of 2007 2008 2009
16:11.69
vigorbranding
Right? At at first it was not it was more of ah of a digital menu right? Fast casual kind of concept.
16:21.96
Craig
And you started to see people come in and place orders at the bar cheeseburgers, chicken salads, ribs and get the food delivered on a plate and then ask for a box and take it to go with them. And at the time we weren’t doing at least that that company delivery pickup to go. It didn’t exist and so as an entrepreneur I mean you know in 1920 years old I was trying to build a restaurant called Bernie’s deli
16:48.62
vigorbranding
See.
16:52.24
Craig
Ah, was always thinking about you know what could we? What could be the first concept that we we try to create and so the idea was how do you take casual dining and turn it into an order at the counter. Um service experience sort of think A. Panera bread but on steroids so digital menu boards and we had Gps table trackers and I think the one saving grace that that ah that we implemented is we had a full liquor wine beer program at the restaurant and we had a bar component.
17:24.32
vigorbranding
Fool.
17:28.25
Craig
Where you could get full service at the bar or you can go order at the counter sit down at the table and then the service team would sort of take care of everything else. Drink refills catch up run your food bust your tables things like that and what we noticed is. Guest would walk in and they would say hey you see that menu over there at the bar go bring me that menu and you know come take my order at the table and I’m being a little facetious the way that they they spoke but not so far off. And and ultimately you know it was through having this hybrid model right? from the get go. We trained the service team to have elevated service points. We had a full liquor program. We had full service at the bar so we weren’t just one 1 or 1 or nothing.
18:06.32
vigorbranding
Um, sure. Yeah.
18:16.87
Craig
We sort of had all these little things going so long story short We we started to take orders at the table. We started to notice that more people preferred at least in our restaurant that model and what I thought was this amazing entrepreneurial innovative idea.
18:29.61
vigorbranding
From who.
18:35.80
Craig
Take casual restaurant food and serve it in it to go order at the counter environment. You know we we soon realized that you know most people again for us in the gup coast neighborhood of Chicago wanted to sit down be taken care of but also have a ah casual go to spot. Where they could dine with us multiple times a week
19:07.50
vigorbranding
Yeah, well I mean that’s it’s smart and customers. They vote with their mouths right? They’re going to you got to follow them and what their their needs are and their wants are and you have to evolve and and roll with the punches and and and change your model if you need be That’s ah, that’s very very smart.
19:19.00
Craig
Ah, very true would I Just think that I’m just like a regular a regular guck you know and like sometimes I’m in the mood for fried chicken Sometimes I’m in the mood for a salad sometimes I’m in the mood for a fried chicken sandwich. So I think.
19:21.33
vigorbranding
I have ah I’m going to jump on a side here. It’s kind of funny because one of the things I read about you you know I’m sitting here saying you have to like listen to the customers and listen to what their needs are but your menus based on your on your favorite things isn’t it.
19:36.81
Craig
You know the menu is really built around something for everyone any day of the week whatever they’re in the mood for and you know so far I think my taste buds align with the most people you know we’re operating now in 5 states and so.
19:42.21
vigorbranding
Yeah, ah.
19:55.54
Craig
So I think it’s it’s resonating. Yes, so we have 10 restaurants and um, yeah, it’s it’s an exciting time. You know it’s sort of like slow and steady growth. You know, not just growing for growth sake but really trying to get great real estate grow organically um.
20:07.40
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. How many locations total. Okay, fantastic.
20:14.76
Craig
Grow from within build the team from within I mean we have people on our team from day one and I mean when you look back and you see ah an opening line cook from our kitchen now running the kitchen of our first restaurant I mean that’s like you can’t you can’t beat that.
20:20.10
vigorbranding
Great. Um.
20:33.85
Craig
Amazing.
20:41.26
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to feel good about that. So one of the things I think is really interesting. Is you know we talk about these you know the dock bees and or any kind of a restaurant and and the and the main thing about a restaurant I Know it’s not a franchise. It’s all they’re all owned by you. But.
20:50.86
Craig
Yeah I mean I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing but it certainly makes my architect you know, happy to to build. But no, you know I think I think what it is is you know we’re constantly trying to.
20:58.22
vigorbranding
They typically want to resemble the same look and feel. So yeah that that consists Ram your decor, an atmosphere for each location is a bit different. Can you talk about that and the thinking behind that.
21:09.95
Craig
Innovate and think outside the box and you know we’re we’re traveling looking at what other restaurants and other people in the hospitality whether it’s hotels whether it’s fast casual whether it’s full service. You know it’s all these different visual cues that. You know we’re constantly looking to incorporate into how we can make our restaurants better. So I think the the architecture and the atmospheres in the layouts are generated more around. We don’t have a cookie cutter box. So. Each restaurant some are four Thousand Square feet some are six Thousand Square feet some are in lifestyle centers some are in general mall some are in urban downtown markets and so the the atmosphere sort of forces us.
21:45.48
vigorbranding
Who.
22:00.68
Craig
Have to look at each buildout just a little bit different so that patios that then how do you incorporate that into the dining room and and and so I think it’s it’s it’s we still haven’t figured out exactly who we are. You know what I sort of say all the time is you know? and and I say this.
22:15.31
vigorbranding
You hear.
22:19.13
Craig
Somewhat facetiously I know the last chapter of our book I just don’t know all the pages between today and then and so we’re still telling our story. We’re writing our story. We. We’re constantly looking and saying what can we do? better. How do we make our kitchens a little bit bigger without sacrificing dining space. So again, a little long winded but the the architecture is more predicated on constantly trying to be better operationally and then that turns into aesthetically.
22:38.58
vigorbranding
You Yeah, they go.
22:54.46
Craig
You know, something different for for each and every store.
22:54.73
vigorbranding
Um.
22:59.18
Craig
Yeah, but that goes back to also you know like we we have this we have this menu item ah in Indianapolis which one which is our most recent restaurant. It’s called killer grill trip. So amazing. It’s awesome. It has nothing to do with Indianapolis and so you know sometimes people will say well.
23:07.66
vigorbranding
And the menus a little different depending on the location too correct.
23:18.14
Craig
You know the menu caters to the local clientele. Yes, and no I think all of our food caters to the local clientele. It’s it’s straightforward. You know, casual American themed themed restaurant. But I think again, it’s more about this innovation.
23:28.10
vigorbranding
Um, and who is.
23:36.24
Craig
Putting our chefs to work constantly exploring new taste buds and and trying also as we’ve gotten bigger to overlap use of product so that we’re not bringing in just 1 item for 1 menu but really trying to see if we can expand upon it. So The menu is also about constant curation of um tasting trying and ultimately it makes it onto to new bad news.
24:08.54
Craig
Yeah, for well yeah, there’s there’s 14 day parts in a week and you could you could test me but I’ve been there I’ve done it and I still haven’t gotten sick of it. Yeah, but you should watch us at a tasting it tasing is fun to watch because.
24:15.95
vigorbranding
And as long as you like it because I think you said in 1 of your articles you you could eat there fourteen days in a row or something like that. Okay, yeah.
24:27.43
Craig
You know what tastes right? to 1 person you taste off to another and it’s just so funny how you get into all the intricacies and just try to make the best product possible.
24:34.15
vigorbranding
Ah, that’s great. Let’s fantastic. Um, what? oh yeah, yeah.
24:41.91
Craig
Yeah I mean you know the the costs are certainly you know continue to Rise and I think our business. It’s certainly a for profit business. Don’t get me wrong, but because we have a long horizon on how we.
24:50.12
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. What do you think is the best or the best The biggest challenge facing restaurants these days. What are you seeing is the biggest challenge.
25:01.35
Craig
Look at the the company as a whole I think we could be a little bit more patient but you know the the costs continue to go up and you know we don’t just take price just because everybody else is and sort of keep up with those rising costs the wages.
25:06.40
vigorbranding
E no.
25:19.76
Craig
Construction costs the the the day parts of delivery versus dine in work from home versus coming to the office all of those I think are real challenges I mean when you when you look at the business as a whole you’re just constantly competing with.
25:24.48
vigorbranding
In here.
25:39.59
Craig
With your next door neighbor and we don’t want to cut costs just to get more bodies inside of the restaurant. We really want to maintain our integrity. We want to maintain our value on the plate. We don’t want to trim down on. The the quality or the specs that we offer and so I think what we’re blessed with is this long horizon but the the costs right now are definitely the most challenging part of our business.
26:01.47
vigorbranding
Moon.
26:22.26
vigorbranding
Yeah I mean that that makes an awful lot of sense. Sorry, let’s have some fun. So ah, back to your your sixth grade. Ah, ah you meet Alan Bernstein and you write a report. Okay and it’s for school.
26:24.60
Craig
I Mostly gotten help from my mom there.
26:34.10
vigorbranding
Ah, you interviewed Allen in the report and you asked them really I’ll say some really incredible questions I’ll say for a 12 year old it was good. In fact, there are better questions. Ah okay, that’s a good mom right there and I would say there’ are actually better questions that I’m asking you so I mean but yeah, you got lots of credit for that or your mom does I should say.
26:34.66
Craig
Yeah.
26:50.14
vigorbranding
So um, I’m going to ask you the same questions and and I want to see I mean let’s see if you answer them the same way that Allen answered them in his ah in his ah ah in his answers in the report. So the modern day you let’s go when you hire a manager and people ah to work for for you. What do you look for.
26:55.12
Craig
Yeah, you know number 1 is genuine friendliness I mean one of the pillars of our company is genuine hospitality and I think the way somebody presents themselves and um, the. The truthfulness in the way that they engage it really tells everything we can teach you how to run one of our restaurants we can put you through our sixteen week training program and teach you all the different intricacies from the kitchen to the front of house but genuine friendliness is. Is something that can’t be taught.
27:45.59
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. Allen’s answer was very very similar and it’s’s I think it’s it’s dead on because I would do this all day long up and down I look for attitude. This is what he said and the ability to communicate and I get such a huge thing I taught my kids I mean my my daughters. The 1 thing I got instilled in them. Ah, being very young I said look you got to look people in the eye. You’ve got to talk to them. Don’t be afraid tell them what you think just be sincere and communication skills are are huge. All right next question at what point did you know to expand now you asked this of Allen and I’ll see what the.
28:06.55
Craig
Yeah, yeah, you know the the business the business model always was to have more than one. Um, so store 2 for example in Chicago we signed that lease before store one opened.
28:20.29
vigorbranding
But your answer would be.
28:22.40
Craig
And that was probably the most dangerous part of the whole business because store one if I could tell you the war stories that we had there would be unbelievable. So I think we knew to expand once we got store 1 and 2 under under our our footing.
28:33.40
vigorbranding
Wow.
28:41.40
Craig
And we felt like the team was able to grow from within and we were able to start promoting hourly employees to managers managers to general managers general managers to new Store Openers and so I think the the growth from within from a people standpoint. I think put us in ah in a confident position to start growing the business.
29:12.63
Craig
Um, and keep in mind he was swapping to a 10 year old
29:14.10
vigorbranding
Very good. His answer was because I had a plan for how many to build so sometimes sometimes that could be revisionist history right? Like you know he’s just giving you like he’s 1 word like these little short sentence answers. It sounded pretty like he had all figured out. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.
29:21.10
Craig
Um, yeah, yeah and I did gain about 60 stores at the time by then.
29:28.50
Craig
Yeah I’ll show you my American Airlines travel app you know we’re traveling we’re we’re in the restaurants we’re we’re engaging with the team. We’re engaging with guests. We’re doing. You know we’re doing constant evaluations on food and service.
29:30.25
vigorbranding
But I think he’s trying to impress you by the the way he’s throwing these these answers down. So how do you maintain? How do you maintain the quality of all your restaurants.
29:48.29
Craig
But I think that’s a little bit. You know it sort of comes from um you know, really trying to give the general managers ownership of their restaurants and so even if we’re in 1 restaurant today. We’re still not in 8 other restaurants and if we’re we’re in 1 store.
29:48.57
vigorbranding
Ah.
30:07.81
Craig
And so I think it really comes down to letting the general managers you know own their business operate it like it was their 4 walls and you know we we do a lot of follow ups. We try to give them the tools to be successful. Um, but ultimately I think the.
30:09.19
vigorbranding
Are 8
30:26.20
Craig
The the businesses is as successful as the people who who run them and that’s really where we spend a lot of time and emphasis. Um on trying to grow.
30:41.70
Craig
Ah, well I think what’s fun about my job is you can have a ah day that is the easiest day in the world and everything is just moving right? along and nothing comes up and then you can have another day where it seems like nothing’s going right.
30:45.10
vigorbranding
Um, yeah, that’s excellent, all right? So how challenging is your job.
30:59.40
Craig
And so I think the the job is gonna always ebb and flow. Um, it’s gonna always have peaks and valleys I think the the what I try to focus on now is not getting you know too far deep into the valleys and let that. 1 instant Trump or overshadow all the positives that we have going on so the the job is challenging. But I think any job is challenging and and I think our our job is equally rewarding.
31:32.76
vigorbranding
In here.
31:34.28
Craig
For as challenging as it is and we can go to a restaurant and we could see all the smiling faces and we can see all the repeat guests that we’re so privileged to serve and I think seeing that in real time helps to offset. Maybe some of the challenges that you know running running restaurants come with.
31:52.75
vigorbranding
In who.
32:00.47
Craig
Ah, ah, ah.
32:04.11
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Allan answered that by my job is very challenging because I’m always trying to be on the top’ ah, that’s great. That’s great. You know and but you know with some of the things you say my. My family’s always had restaurants. My brother-in-law ah runs a restaurant now in ah in a small town in Pennsylvania and it’s sort of like the it’s sort of like the community center of the town and to me it’s it’s kind of really cool. In fact, so much so that he put up pictures black and white photographs from the old town. Historical picture. So people who come in and look at them and as crazy as it sounds. It’s the same people like night after night night after night they’re in there regularly, some people are in there every day some people are in there like once a week on the same night. They eat the same things. It’s just like I don’t know it’s it’s a really unique thing and and boy if you can get that.
32:57.48
Craig
Yeah, no to to totally I mean I think I think for us, you know we’re trying to you know again as we write our story and and you know history will be able to look back and determine Ultimately what type of restaurant we created. But I think.
32:57.68
vigorbranding
And get that kind of patronage. It’s just a wonderful thing and they’re all like friends and it’s just it’s just wild you end up like you said you take care of these folks and you you treat them right? and and they have a great experience and it just becomes ah a part of their life. It’s pretty cool, pretty cool.
33:13.30
Craig
You know the the goal is to kind of be the the community neighborhood restaurant with some you know chain systems that make the experience consistent from visit to visit and and I think if we can do that and go into these markets.
33:14.71
vigorbranding
You know.
33:25.27
vigorbranding
Um.
33:28.63
vigorbranding
E.
33:32.37
Craig
And be a place where the community can come after soccer games on the weekends and come after graduations and come for date night or come with the family I mean those are the types of memories that ultimately growing up. We always went to. The local restaurant for different experiences each time if Doc Bees can become that consistently. Um in each location that we have I think that you know that that’s ultimately what I think our mission is is inevitably going to be.
34:05.20
vigorbranding
3
34:18.24
Craig
Yeah, yeah, well I’ll say this way I know nothing else. So I my only answer is yes you know what what I try not to do now is I I don’t try to get caught up so much in the everyday.
34:19.68
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. So the last question in your question for him and I’m going to answer it that and you can I want to know your answer if you could start all over would you stay in the same business and and of course ah Alan said yes I love it. What’s your answer Greg.
34:35.27
Craig
Because I think if you get caught up in the everyday you can become overwhelmed I mean the the daily grind of business in general and specifically the restaurant business can definitely overwhelm somebody and so what I try really now to do is be be a couple of.
34:46.17
vigorbranding
Who.
34:53.75
Craig
Couple of steps ahead and think about you know where we’re trying to go with the business and the growth and the team be thankful for the past and all of those experiences ah have got us to hear and so my answer is yes I would do it all over again. Just sometimes wish that you know the the lessons that I’m now learning 10 years into it came a little earlier and I’m sure in ten more years I’ll wish what I know then I thought about now and just to kind of get through some of the more challenging days.
35:14.83
vigorbranding
Right? well.
35:23.30
vigorbranding
It’s awesome.
35:33.83
Craig
Yeah, the next restaurant is under construction in Carry North Carolina which is adjacent to Raleigh in the Durham area. Super excited about it. It’s a new lifestyle center called Fenton and I think um, you know’s it’s it’s going to thrive and in that again.
35:39.20
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah, no doubt So what’s next for duck bees. Any new markets anything new and exciting coming up.
35:49.42
Craig
Neighborhood community environment and then from there you know, sort of like slow and steady wins the race you know one 2 restaurants a year looking across across the country where we think what we know has worked up until this point can.
35:51.23
vigorbranding
Um, yeah.
36:01.37
vigorbranding
Me.
36:07.92
Craig
Hit the repeat button and work again, you know it’s amazing. The the people and the team and the real estate is really the recipe for success and if we can get those 2 things right over and over and over.
36:08.61
vigorbranding
Yeah.
36:17.70
vigorbranding
Like.
36:24.37
Craig
I Think we’re gonna have a really successful business on our hands. Yeah.
36:38.96
Craig
You know I wish I could give you some like crazy over the top like grand answer for that. But the truth is I would have 2 slices of New York pizza and I’d have it served with a Coca-cola.
36:40.19
vigorbranding
That’s awesome. No no, no argument there all right? So your very last question. Okay and can’t be your restaurant even though I know you love your food. Ah if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and why.
36:56.36
Craig
And I would go to any pizzerie in New York city it doesn’t need to be Joe’s or John’s or Rays could be anywhere I’d sit at the counter I’d take some greasy ah parmesan cheese and red chillli flake and poured on my two slice of pizza and.
37:10.21
vigorbranding
Yeah e.
37:13.60
Craig
I would be in heaven. And how I old in Chicago so I hope I don’t get out.
37:19.59
vigorbranding
Um, yeah, it’s not a bad answer me and I’ll tell you there’s something about New York pizza that’s tough to beat. So listen I yeah yeah, right.
37:26.84
Craig
There.
37:37.23
vigorbranding
And they do that fixed off you know I like a nice nice thin New York pizza you know so hey Craig you were awesome I really appreciate this. It was a lot of fun I mean obviously I never got to meet your father but I can tell you I know he’d be really proud of this and it’s a shame. He didn’t get to see.
37:40.42
Craig
That’s very small.
37:47.22
Craig
Thank you for having me Michael this was great.
37:52.30
vigorbranding
What you’ve created and and and even Allen I mean it would Allen I’m sure would just be thrilled to death so that’s that’s all great stuff. Thank you? So so much for your time I really enjoyed talking to you all right? buddy.
...more June 10, 2024Ep 82: Martino Brambilla / President of Embassy Ingredients Embassy Ingredients combines creativity and science to provide its customers with the very best innovative flavors and bakery ingredients available.
Embassy Ingredients has an on-site flavor lab and full bakery test kitchen staffed with certified flavorists, food scientists and bakery specialists.They formulate, test and manufacture a wide range of flavors and bakery ingredients ensuring that taste, quality and performance are built into every product.
Natural ingredients and colors have taken over, with nearly 80% of flavors and ingredients being natural. Using high quality, natural ingredients is something Embassy Ingredients has been focused on for many years.
It is possible to have indulgence AND clean labels. Many products that are indulgent and taste great have clean labels. The technology today allows for the use of natural ingredients that taste as good or better than the artificial ingredients of the past.
The typical Embassy customer takes 12-18 months to launch a new product. For that reason, tracking trends that are in the earliest stages and will still be relevant a year from now is important.
QUOTES]“When I started, I was the only employee. I got the orders in the morning, made them in the afternoon, delivered them the next day and got more orders.” (Martino)
“As a 17 year old kid I found out that persistence and perseverance were the personality traits you need as an entrepreneur.” (Martino)
“In the 90s I’d say about 80% of the flavors that were sold were artificial and 20% were natural. Right now it’s about 80% natural and 20% artificial.” (Martino)
“We’ve always tried to keep the junk out of mixes. Just because you’re buying something you want to indulge in, doesn’t mean it has to be completely unhealthy for you.” (Martino)
“If it’s not needed inside the product, why put it in?” (Martino)
“When you indulge, it better be good. You don’t want something that’s being made as inexpensively as possible.” (Martino)
“Every crisis you face you learn some new business skills you didn’t know you had.” (Martino)
“During a crisis (like COVID), people eat more sweets than in a non-crisis.” (Martino)
“If you taste test new recipes for a living, you get really good at tasting without eating.” (Martino)
TRANSCRIPT00:01.76
vigorbranding
Today’s guest is someone who knows a lot about ingredients a lot about flavor trends and a lot about baked goods. He’s Martino Babila and he’s the founder and president of embassy ingredients welcome to show Martino and thank you very much for joining us. So.
00:13.47
Martino
Thank you Michael thanks for being glad to be on the show.
00:18.41
vigorbranding
Yep, So tell everyone you know a little bit about Embassy ingredients. What’s your mission and what do you guys? do.
00:21.59
Martino
So embassy ingredients is centered on the bakery trace so we supply ingredients to large scale bakeries. So we have a side of our business that makes flavors and a side that makes the industrial version you might say of a Duncan hides cake mix. So when you go off to your supermarket or to Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks you’ll find our ingredients and a lot of the baker that you’re going to be buying at those qsars or supermarkets.
00:47.54
vigorbranding
Fantastic I like in forktails we talk about food and beverage right? So restaurants you know cpg all of the like. But what’s really kind of cool about you and your businesses is you make the flavors and the reasons we go to restaurants reason we buy Cpg is because we like the way stuff tastes we like the way they prepare their food and you guys are. Kind of the secret ingredient if you will ah in in behind it all. So my first question I’ve known you for a long time but I actually found this out and did not realize it so I think this is fantastic and a great way to start I love I love stories. Um, you know I started my agency. Ah my first advertising agency when I was 27 I thought that was really young. Ah, but you took over your father’s company as owner and president when you were seventeen years old ah you know and when I was 17 I was probably getting in trouble for speeding with my my new driver’s license. So I mean I can’t imagine ah starting and running a company at that point in time. Can you can you tell tell us that story how how does someone start a company or take over a company at 17.
01:45.63
Martino
But it started actually 2 years before that my dad pulled me out of school when it was in grade eleven. So technically I never graduated high school and I started a company with my brother and I and my dad so the 3 of us started up a business that was mostly distribution. My dad had a hobby of. Bringing in these flavors from italy diluting them with simple syrup which is water and sugar and we used to sell them to bakeries up and down the street. All these small italian bakeries that were all over toronto. These toronto is a large italian community Two years later my brother went off and started directing television commercials. He’s in video art. He’s done pretty well though he’s ah he did the the graphics for the sphere for the u 2 concert. Yeah and my dad and I didn’t really see I eye on how to run a business because he wanted to have a business with no employees and the business was going bankrupt.
02:28.68
vigorbranding
Um, yeah, very cool.
02:39.68
Martino
So my dad left and I took over a $5000 a year business so that was our total sales or remember at that point and I had a j two thousand wagon to do my deliveries in so there wasn’t a lot of speeding going on in that j two thousand bag and I think if I floored that sucker it wasn’t going over 60
02:44.82
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah.
02:54.12
vigorbranding
A.
02:59.43
Martino
Yeah, So so that’s how the business started I was the only employee basically got the orders in the morning made them in the afternoon delivered them again the next day got more orders we slowly ah slowly grew the business started making our own flavors started getting into bakery Mixes. Bought used equipment from a company that went bankrupt and we started blending our own cake mixes for these bakeries and then as we grew we started getting into more industrial customers and then our business model kind of evolved into dealing with the larger and larger bakeries and the big product Launches. So. And where I really learn how to run a business is that as a 70 year old kid I found that but persistence and Perseverance really are what is the personality trait you need as an entrepreneur like without that you’re not going to make it but then I went back to school in my forty s.
03:48.31
vigorbranding
Any man.
03:55.33
Martino
I went to a class called opm at Harvard and it’s ah nine weeks of schooling at Harvard is three weeks every year over three years that’s when I joined ypo because about 20% of but classmates were Ypr is and organization that we both belong to learn how to develop a business model learn how to really run a company rather than just ah, having a job in grunt work and building a business that way and really expanded the business after that and and that’s when we really broke into. Um, you might say we deal with all the largest bakeries in North America right now. So our products are going to be in your baked goods whenever you want to indulge. It’s probably something of mine is in something you’re eating during the week
04:34.64
vigorbranding
Um.
04:42.92
vigorbranding
Yeah I heard you say it before and that’s that’s amazing like there’s probably everybody in in the country at USCanada and I think South America said too that they they taste your products you’re you’re you’re in there. You’re in their bread or their their cupcake or their.
04:53.66
Martino
And Natural America. Yeah.
05:00.66
vigorbranding
They’re muffin somewhere right.
05:00.74
Martino
And we’re also some global launches with some retailers so we produce the product mostly North America sometimes we export it internationally. So there’s some of our products that are going all over the globe and global launches.
05:15.55
vigorbranding
That’s Great. You know I think it’s It’s really Interesting. You brought up about I’ll say either Ypo or I’ll just see entrepreneurs as a whole the folks I talked to on this program are all like presidents or or ceos of of companies. A lot of them are entrepreneurs. Um. Everyone seems to have by and large the same store I think I think a lot of people just think oh you know? Yeah yeah, you were highly Educated. You came from money. Ah you were handed this opportunity and that’s quite the opposite like pretty much everybody has that same thing in common that they they grind it out. They they started at the bottom they had an idea. They didn’t have any money they they just they they just pushed and I think that’s the that is the secret sauce and and absolutely every one of these great like ah stories I get to hear you know everybody just kind of pushes and pushes and pushes and and doesn’t give up I mean I’m sure you faced a lot of ah adversity. Ah, can you talk a little bit about some of the things that that you bumped up against.
06:11.56
Martino
Well, you know what I had 0 money when I took it over and at 17 you can’t even legally book get a loan from the bank because I wasn’t eighteen yet. So my only line of credit was a credit card that the bank manager was able to give me I had no help from anybody including my family actually. 1 thing that 1 thing that drove me a lot in terms of adversity was my dad’s parting words when he left was I’ll be bankrupt in six months so the thing is if I don’t think he meant it that way but that inspired me to never throw in the towel. Ah and and that’s part of my personality is.
06:45.48
vigorbranding
Um.
06:50.75
Martino
I I will never give up I just just before this podcast I just got off a call with one of our largest customers and we’re trying to work on a big new program with them and at the end of the phone call I tell them well 1 thing you’ll notice about embassy we’re very persistent and he just started laughing and he goes yes I’ve noticed that.
07:08.87
vigorbranding
That’s fantastic Hey you got to be a bulldog.
07:09.69
Martino
To this day. Yeah to this data and what if if there’s one trait that will make an entrepreneur successful or any business leader successful is persistence.
07:20.27
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah, we call it being bulldoggged here I mean we we all ah, that’s our mascot and it’s sort of our attitude you got to just be. You know you got to be bulldoggged about stuff just don’t give up and keep pushing forward. So that’s that’s awesome advice. Um all right? So let’s jump into the business thing here. Let’s talk about. Ah, the clean labels in the 80 s and 90 s people didn’t care about additives preservatives artificial colors as long as the finished products tasted good and that’s no longer the case right? So how how much of a challenge has that been to keep up with the demand for cleaner ingredients.
07:49.18
Martino
Well let me give you an example on the flavor side back in the 90 s I’d say 80% of all the flavors were sold were artificial and 20% more natural I think right now it’s about 80% natural 20% artificial
08:03.90
vigorbranding
Me.
08:06.83
Martino
And that also has gone to the color side. Um, the challenge. There’s a challenge there. There’s a cost increase in some cases but not always ah but at this point here after doing it for so many years. It’s quite simple to switch a product from Being. An artificially flavored and colored product to at least the natural flavors. The colors are more of a challenge. Ah, but that also could be done now. But that’s the most costly part is the is the color side. Um in terms of clean label in terms of what you’re Eating. We actually have fun in that like like.
08:35.98
vigorbranding
You.
08:43.98
Martino
We’ve always tried to keep the junk out of our mixes only because you’re buying something that you want to indulge in doesn’t mean it has to be completely unhealthy for you and we’ve always thought about if it’s not needed inside the product. Why put it it so we’ve always looked at keeping a shorter ingredient deck. Keeping it natural and even there we’ve done a lot of very old natural products that we launched over the last few years
09:07.73
vigorbranding
So so you can’t have indulgence in clean labels right? I mean even though we’re talking cakes and cookies people. You know they they want to watch what they eat but they can still have clean labels right.
09:19.50
Martino
Oh absolutely actually some of my favorite products that you find in the store shelf that are indulgent and taste great. Our clean label. Um, so in the 70 s the technology wasn’t there to make them clean label. And give the conditions that you need in the supermarket. For example, if if you produce a big good Today. You have to make it freeze it and then it has to go to the supermarket and then the supermarket typically wants to thaw the product and have it on the shelf for up to eight days so that customers can buy bring it over and it still tastes good. In the 70 s the technology wasn’t there to do that. Naturally the technology is there now that using natural ingredients you can achieve that and you can actually make it tasted better than using an artificial ingredients.
10:00.40
vigorbranding
5
10:06.61
vigorbranding
Very cool. So I mean talking about trends um you and I met probably years and years ago and I would do the food and beverage trends presentation at ypo and ah for ah for anybody that’s listening would would care if they go to cheers at quench agency. dotcomthey can download our food and beverage trends presentation. It’s free. We have several years we always have the most updated on the website so that’s always there so that’s how that’s how you and I met and but the thing that we had in common right? away was was talking about trends and I know that you follow them very closely.
10:39.50
Martino
Up.
10:41.18
vigorbranding
Um, the way we always looked at it. There’s innovators who are really super early on a train then there’s early adopters early majority and then late majority and then obviously laggards We’re always obviously trying to be in the forefront. Um, when I do a Trends presentation. It’s like sometimes people are like well I’ve already heard of that. Well. If No one had heard of it before at all, it certainly wouldn’t be a trend so you want to catch that early edge of it. Talk about like how you look at Trends because you’ve told me before a lot of times your flavor profiles and things like That. You’re just listening you’re watching and and again I think you’ve always said too. You want to be on the early side of it because till you can get it to Market. Ah, if you know if you wait til the the the late majority will hell it’s too late I mean it’s ah you you know it’s It’s past it’srying.
11:21.79
Martino
Hey look even inside the company here at embassy we have a lot of the dates about trends and how do we do the market research. So our typical customer takes 12 to 18 months to launch a product from the time we present it.
11:36.65
vigorbranding
E.
11:39.22
Martino
Or they request a presentation which means that if you’re trying to grab a trend that’s already out there. They’re going to be at the at after the peak. So it’s about looking at the trends that are up and coming and.
11:52.15
vigorbranding
E.
11:56.11
Martino
That really makes us that the most successful products that we’ve launched have been with companies that haven’t done focus groups that haven’t done the mentel research in terms of these are because if you wait eighteen months after that comes out, you’re you’re getting the tail end of the trend.
12:14.11
vigorbranding
That’s right.
12:14.20
Martino
You’re getting already where you’re going to be losing money on it. The most successful launches we have is when you’re scouring social media. You’re looking at what’s happening at the local small bakeries when you’re going to the trade shows and you’re looking at the booths that couldn’t afford the the really good area in the middle.
12:27.60
vigorbranding
Ah.
12:32.94
Martino
And they’re right at the back corner and these entrepreneurial companies that are really hungry and come up with this novel little product. Ah those where you get the ideas for the really good trends and then you have to then you have to sort out all these trends that you’ve seen and all these ideas These people are having of which.
12:40.70
vigorbranding
Um.
12:52.48
Martino
I’d say 80% will fail and not really become a mass Market trend and then hopefully pick the right one to say this one’s got legs. Let’s really present it to our customers and when we have customers that don’t want to go to the focus groups because. A lot of those trends will fail in the focus group because we’re showing that the customer somebody. They’ve never seen before but when people are willing to take a chance and say this is up and Coming. We’ve seen great results coming out the other end.
13:15.24
vigorbranding
Who.
13:26.11
vigorbranding
Very Cool. So How how do you balance that? How do you bounce between ah a trending exotic flavor and say something that’s familiar like comfort food so you mean at the end of the day. Sometimes you just want a really good chocolate chip cookie or a blueberry muffin I mean how does that work like how much how do you decide how much of these exotics. Or how much of ah ah say a flyer. Do you take on some of these new flavors.
13:48.23
Martino
Yeah, it’s like the basics are easy to sell and they’re always going to be a mass market item and they’re going to get great sales out of them and you could tweak those a little bit so sometimes if you don’t want to take too much risk. You can do a tweak on a basic. And then you can get on a new trend with a tweak on a basic um or you can try experimenting with ltos so a lot of our customers will try with ltls like so it reduces the risk factor and they can see if it’s something that can go mainstream and they can make it go all year round. And they come in with a three month lto project but it’s it’s really listening to the noise in the media and going around to different parts of the world and seeing what’s trending there because the us is going to get the trends usually after Europe and after asia gets them it depending the community you’re trying to Target. And it’s really listening what’s coming out of there and trying to grab um to it at the right point.
14:48.74
vigorbranding
Very cool. So if if you can tell me what are some of the trends you’re tracking now like in terms of ingredients and maybe recipe development is there anything. That’s that you’re looking at that you think is pretty cool, exciting and new.
14:59.41
Martino
Well, the stuff that’s coming out sometimes it’s not as exciting as new as I would like it to be but sometimes yeah and and you know what every year we publish a little pit thing that we send out to everybody like at like and at the end of 2023
15:06.61
vigorbranding
But it sells.
15:17.84
Martino
What other transfer 2024 and it sounds like oh my my god embassy’s got a crystal ball though. The reality is is our customers are always launching 12 to 18 months out. We already know what’s trending for 2024 because it’s already in the pipeline. So.
15:28.84
vigorbranding
Who.
15:32.32
Martino
What’s really trending for next year is a lot of basics. It seems like coming out of covid everybody wants comfort foods. Ah everybody wants to get into what their what their grandmother used to make into that comfort and so on ah, there’s a lot of indulgence where they wanted a lot richer to though.
15:36.13
vigorbranding
Her.
15:51.67
Martino
So they want something with a lot of richness. So if if people trending wise are trying to get healthier in general like there’s a there’s a push right now where people are drinking a little bit less alcohol people are trying to get a little bit healthier but people still want to indulge so when before.
16:10.40
vigorbranding
Um.
16:11.62
Martino
A lot of customers would want. Okay, how inexpensive can we make this There’s a little bit more of a push for quality so that with the clean label push is also coming to push where if I’m going to consume eight hundred calories I want it to be worth the one hour on the treadmill I’m going not to pay for this. And it’s going to taste really good and there’s nothing wrong with indulging once’s in a wild no matter what diet or you’ on you have you need to indulge or also there’s nothing long term to going to happen. But when you indulge it better be good. You don’t want to have something that had 3 cost cutting projects done before it. And it’s being made as inexpensively as possible so people are trending more. They’ll spend a little bit more money but by a smaller portion and that’s one trend that I really am supporting because everybody would rather sell quality than something that doesn’t have that quality behind it.
16:55.82
vigorbranding
And.
17:07.97
vigorbranding
Yeah I mean that makes sense absolutely so I mean you started your business. You’re 17 you’ve you’ve obviously seen a lot of challenges 2008 covid and I’m sure there’s ah, a million in between. Um. Like what are some of the the biggest challenges you’ve gone through I know you’ve said that the the covid pandemic is your biggest professional accomplishment were there others before that you want to talk a little bit about that and go into the whole covid thing. What you did there.
17:32.82
Martino
Oh I guess the the big the last time before covid that was a great learning process every every crisis Trust me, you learned some new business skills. You never thought you had was 2008 financial crisis like and for about three months or sales went down 50% because none of our customers knew what to buy or if to buy anything and so on and it ended up just being a depletion of supply chain because what we found that that during a crisis people actually more sweets than in a non-crisis so business rebounded very fast after that.
18:05.40
vigorbranding
That’s right? so.
18:11.59
Martino
Um, during Covid The biggest issue was supply chain. Okay, that’s that’s probably with everybody else. It was a matter of how do we keep our customers supplied and how do we keep their operations going and how do they continue supplying their customers and how do we get the food of the table.
18:14.36
vigorbranding
Are.
18:30.63
Martino
Ah, for the people that need it. So That’s where the challenges were so it was a lot of prioritizing reformulting sometimes they use less of an ingredient that we use to use inside of a product we we we try to see. Okay, can we substitute it with other ingredients and bypass the shortage of this one ingredient So There was a lot of R and D work being done on that. Um, a lot of tough decisions like we had to abandon some of our expert Markets. We decided to focus in on our.
18:58.36
vigorbranding
My head.
19:06.70
Martino
Canadian and us and Mexican customers and abandoned some of the other markets a little bit more than we had were’re aggressively pursuing before we stepped back until supply supply chain caught up and now we were reengaging again.
19:19.45
vigorbranding
Did you feel like the supply chains are catching up. You feel like that’s getting better.
19:23.37
Martino
Supply chains are catching up in most parts. What’s happening now to us is global warming so supply chain seems to be catching up and then you get an email that there’s a drought in Africa so in the ivory coast.
19:40.34
vigorbranding
Myth.
19:41.60
Martino
So now you can’t get cocoa so you’re gonna everybody’s gonna be seeing if there’s anything chocolate on the shelf that’s going to probably go up 30 to 50% in price and in some cases you want to even be able to find it so the world cocos and chocolate supply just went down 30%
19:49.39
vigorbranding
Wow.
19:59.66
vigorbranding
The.
20:00.24
Martino
Because of one drought. So we’re finding a lot of the challenges that we’re having right now is all due to global warming and crisis happening in certain parts of the world and then mitigating the supply challenge of that ingredient that got affected.
20:15.21
vigorbranding
Incredible. Um, so I mean okay during Covid I mean there was the shutdown at home baking was a big trend Certainly that’s not bad for you but but it certainly you probably do but even better with the store bought bake goods and things like that is that correct.
20:28.63
Martino
Well at Home Beagle was terrible for us. We don’t have anything that is for the at home baker. Ah we only supply the large bakeries that will supply all your qsrs and your supermarkets.
20:33.69
vigorbranding
Um, ah.
20:39.14
vigorbranding
So you’re not in any mixes you’re just in the actual the finished product got it.
20:44.74
Martino
Yeah, we’re in we’re in the finished product. So covid even the work from home was now good for us because a lot of the sales like you can use. Ah, let’s say Duncan as an example like a lot of people will get a coffee on their way to the office and then when they get their coffee. They’ll also get a muffin.
20:56.47
vigorbranding
Um.
21:03.28
Martino
Or they’ll get a bagel. But if you’re not going to the office. You might not leave your house to get the coffee and if you’re not getting the coffee. You’re also not getting the muffin or bagel or donut So the work from Home. Ah. Also affected the business and where the customer shop because it went into the supermarket rather than the qsrs. So. It’s a matter of finding out where the new outlet is.
21:30.25
vigorbranding
Yeah, the work from home thing is still affecting everybody I know that it’s ah it’s just a whole different animal and there’s a lot of real estate out there. That’s sitting empty and it’s just ah, it’s changed how we are. It’s ah it’s interesting to see how this all evolves. Um, so.
21:44.10
vigorbranding
You know?? Ah well I’m going to go back to another another question so in in your on your website it says here if you’re an employee of of Embassy you get bakery treats galore all right. So that is a perk right? So if someone was starting Tomorrow. What would they find are there bakely treats. Ah bakekery treat school or waiting for them.
22:03.70
Martino
Oh absolutely like ah so how we work our quality department is that every time we make a batch of anything we test a batch and we actually make the finish cake so we have ah.
22:15.87
Martino
Endless amount of baked goods coming out of our bakery testing the products that we made that is free to take for any any of their employees to take home with them. Take it home to their family and so on and then depending on your job function. But any ah, any employee gets invited to this. We’re always developing new products in R and D and we’re always looking for people to taste the products and give us feedback so in some job Functions. You have to be eating sweets every day. So for some people is a dream Job. So.
22:47.35
vigorbranding
Um.
22:50.93
Martino
You get really good at tasting and not eating. Okay, so so because first you join embassy then you get what I call the embassy 15 ah, then you realize that okay I only had to take a bite out of that muffin I didn’t have to eat the whole muffin to taste it. Then you go back to just a bite and you get back regular but then you sometimes you get these really great. We just finished a project that just got approved last week is goingnna be a national launch later on this year at the in the us and.
23:11.16
vigorbranding
Ah, there.
23:25.27
Martino
It hit the sweet spot for exactly what I like I mean it was right down to bullseye for stuff that I have a weakness for it is the first time in a year that not only did I not taste I was actually actively asking r and d can you tell me when it comes out of the oven and make an next round for me. Ah.
23:43.28
vigorbranding
Ah, ah so now you’re gonna put on put on the 15 is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, never trust a skinny baker right? Then that end that what they say.
23:44.22
Martino
Boy yeah I put on the 15 but you know what when it’s that good. The 15 is well worth it. You know what? like I said it’s it’s worth every every calorie at one point. How offs absolutely like what 1 baker 1 time was patting his belly and said this is my r and d department.
24:04.33
vigorbranding
Ah, that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic, Fantastic all right? So I’m going to test you with some rapid fire questions here on your baked goods I Want to know your personal favorites. Okay, so pancakes or waffles all right I would agree with that spongecake or angel food cake.
24:17.72
Martino
Waffles. Okay, when I was 10 years old. There would be angel food cake Now let’s say sponge cake.
24:24.77
vigorbranding
Yeah I agree with that multigreen bread or white bread. Yeah same here donuts are danish.
24:31.50
Martino
Multigrain.
24:36.46
Martino
Oh nice east straight donut. Ah so good brownies and oh and there’s 2 There’s also 2 camps in brownies. There’s the kki brownie people and the chewy brownie people.
24:36.71
vigorbranding
And we’re we’re exactly in the same line here cookies or brownies. No.
24:53.73
vigorbranding
Um I see that’s that’s great. That’s great. Yeah I prefer the chewy browning myself I Totally agree with that and you know it’s funny. You had said earlier too about how.
24:53.74
Martino
And the world is split fifty fifty and I’m a chewy brownie person.
25:07.42
vigorbranding
You know when there’s issues with the economy suites go up. Um, you know we we worked in the ice cream category for many many years and that was absolutely the case you know you worry about like oh discretionary spending is going to go down. People aren’t going to spend money on grocery. They’re going to cut back just to the necessities. Ice cream is definitely a necessity. Any suite is a necessity when the when the economy’s in trouble. So that’s something we learned a long time ago I got 1 one last question I’m throwing a curve ballll here I’ve being a tang guy this is this is intriguing to me. There’s obviously dough which is you know in your breads and everything and I’m a italian I love bread.
25:41.50
Martino
Um.
25:41.55
vigorbranding
And then there’s there’s batter right in your pastries batter or batter or dough if you had to pick one or the other you can’t have anything ever again. Okay, all right I’d buy good dough. That’s bad. It’s forever where we’d split there well but basically you should.
25:47.63
Martino
I go for the batter know I got a sweet tooth I got a sweet do in the gold sauce suit.
26:00.84
vigorbranding
Yeah, you you you basically should so okay, a couple last questions here I you I know you have a really busy. You said you’re on the road for like three weeks four weeks busy trade shows what? what trade shows? Do you go to like what you know and where do you find that you’re observing some of the cutting edge, edge flavors and food trends are they international shows they more national or.
26:14.30
Martino
I.
26:19.82
vigorbranding
I Mean where are you going and what are you seeing and why.
26:20.36
Martino
Is it’s a combination of international and national shows like in the us you got the fancy food show you you have 2 of them and they happen in the states and again where we find value is all the middle of the show. You’ve already seen all that stuff.
26:25.42
vigorbranding
Access.
26:35.41
vigorbranding
Yeah, yeah.
26:37.99
Martino
Like you’ve seen it on your website. You’ve seen it on every website you you want to look at those are stuff that stuff that’s been in the stores already or is about about to be launched. We’ve already heard of it I like the back corners and that new company booth.
26:46.69
vigorbranding
Um.
26:54.48
Martino
Area where all these new entrepreneurs are exhibiting their cl which you’re looking at finished products and that’s a more international show. There’s a nuga in Germany so we go to a lot of the international ones too because that gives us trends that are happening over there. Might be mainstream but they haven’t come to the us or Canada yet. So that gives us maybe a outlook going. Okay, which one is transportable and which one is not in our industry show. There’s like id to be a that’s a bakery show just for our industry. There’s Ibe and vegas that app is every three years
27:15.21
vigorbranding
Right.
27:25.23
vigorbranding
Me.
27:32.54
Martino
And there’s some industry shows that are just for bakery that are happening in Germany and France.
27:36.65
vigorbranding
Very cool, very cool all right. My last question for you Martino if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and why and it can’t be 1 of your products. No can’t be 1 of your products. No no, no, you get off the grid here.
27:47.44
Martino
Well has to be 1 of my products well can’t be 1 of my product. Okay, so I’m I’m italian so I’d like every nationality of food I’ll try anything and I eat everything but at the end of the day I’m italian it’s going to be italian food.
27:55.67
vigorbranding
I know.
28:03.50
vigorbranding
There you go.
28:05.86
Martino
And it could be anything from a great plate of pasta to and like steak Turk Tar the italian style not the french style. There’s 2 different first styles I’m on the italian side of course and then also like fish crudo like it’s thinly sliced raw fish.
28:14.54
vigorbranding
Big difference. Yep.
28:24.14
Martino
It’s like the Italian version of the sushi.
28:27.25
vigorbranding
Um, absolutely, that’s fantastic. Well done is there a special restaurant something in Toronto is there is your is your go to for you.
28:34.36
Martino
Well, but the my favorite high end rest right? and to toronto that does italian food is a place called the nico ah it’s they have amazing high end italian food. But if you’re looking for like basic pastas and everything else. There’s a a mano pasta that’s it’s actually the a location in the train station but they have great pastas and you get them. They’re cheap and they’re really good. Ah, toronto’s going to half a million italians so it’s it’s hard to select 1 restaurant and I go to a lot of different restaurants and.
28:53.46
vigorbranding
Wow! yeah.
29:08.57
Martino
But that many Italians foods the culture.
29:10.75
vigorbranding
That’s it. That’s right amen that’s perfect Martino you were wonderful. It’s always a pleasure talking to you and and I always enjoy when we we get to hang out. So hopefully I’ll get to see you soon and I appreciate you being being a part of this all right buddy talk soon.
29:20.71
Martino
Thank you by Michael.
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