In this episode, Oliver Hartwich and former Australian Department of Home Affairs Secretary Michael Pezzullo discuss growing regional security threats, with Pezzullo warning of a 10-20% chance of conflict with China while advocating for an integrated ANZAC military force.

Pezzullo argues that New Zealand should reconsider its anti-nuclear stance to join AUKUS as a full partner, increase its defence spending beyond the current 1.2% of GDP, and recognise that "if Australia goes down, New Zealand is next" - emphasising that both countries need a unified approach to territorial defence in an increasingly unstable Indo-Pacific region.