What happens when the person hired to fix government education discovers it can't be fixed — because it's doing exactly what it was designed to do? In this episode of Refining Rhetoric, host Robert Bortins sits down with Diane Douglas, Arizona's former Superintendent of Public Instruction (2015–2019), to talk about her fight against Common Core, the truth behind so-called "empowerment scholarship accounts," and why she believes the only real fix for American education starts with getting the government out of it entirely.

Diane walks through the three "epiphany moments" that pulled her out of government schooling and into the fight — from discovering outcome-based education to sitting through a PTA meeting where the numbers simply didn't add up. She takes listeners inside the state board of education that holds more real power than any elected superintendent, explains why she pushed (unsuccessfully) to bring Hillsdale's classical Barney Charter curriculum into Arizona schools, and unpacks the chilling term she kept hearing used for children: "human capital." She also issues a warning for parents who think school-choice funding is a clean win — it's still government money, with government strings attached.

Diane now serves on the Educational Advisory Board for Public School Exit, helping families find a way out of a system she says isn't broken, but working exactly as intended. This conversation is a wake-up call for anyone who still believes the system just needs "more good people" to fix it from the inside.

Learn more about Diane's work: https://www.publicschoolexit.com/